(Insert stupid Blog name here)

I'm sorta on the fence here. Maybe it'd help convince me to buy if you were to compare your work to that of The Beatles or Rolling Stones. After all, it's really the same thing isn't it?

For some reason, Beatles and Stones don't seem right. Given the size of the current fan base, maybe Tommy Tutone is more accurate...

These last three comics have been great.

 

I wonder how many sales were lost because of that thread?

More to the point - I wonder how much respect was lost because of that thread?

I also think it's more of a status damage. Those people who would put $80 on the table for such a "collectors item" or "conversation piece" in the first place will probably still do so.

I thought Rob was kind of full of himself ever since the 2002 thread when he first introduced Actionauts. I never realized how wrong I was.

When I though it was him getting involved in the community I was happy to pay, but now that I know it is just a money-making exercise I won't be buying.

 

On that note, I don't really see the difference between homebrewers and the people who wrote games back in the day - it certainly hasn't got any easier, but perhaps I'm just looking at it from a programming perspective ...

 

Chris

Make another cartoon about "high-strung prima donnas 2008"

On that note, I don't really see the difference between homebrewers and the people who wrote games back in the day - it certainly hasn't got any easier, but perhaps I'm just looking at it from a programming perspective ...

To my mind, there is no difference between writing a homebrew now, and someone back-in-the-day writing a game on their own (he wasn't employed by anyone at the time). If he'd been under contract to write the game, then it would fall under the category of a commercial product, and he would have been paid for it at the time. But if you're writing something entirely on your own, with no guarantee of ever selling it, it's a homebrew. Regardless of the motivation.

 

Make another cartoon about "high-strung prima donnas 2008"

I have one more strip written... I've just been debating whether to finish it or not.

On that note, I don't really see the difference between homebrewers and the people who wrote games back in the day - it certainly hasn't got any easier, but perhaps I'm just looking at it from a programming perspective ...

To my mind, there is no difference between writing a homebrew now, and someone back-in-the-day writing a game on their own (he wasn't employed by anyone at the time). If he'd been under contract to write the game, then it would fall under the category of a commercial product, and he would have been paid for it at the time. But if you're writing something entirely on your own, with no guarantee of ever selling it, it's a homebrew. Regardless of the motivation.

 

I agree. Just because he worked for Atari and Imagic at one time doesn't make his game any different to me. Like you, I am a player, not a collector.

 

The only way he could have made some real money off it was to finish it and sell to Atari in the late 1980's like Doug Neubauer did with Solaris.

 

I'm still going to base my decision whether to buy it on the merits of the game. I'd like to see a detailed review from Tempest or someone else first.

 

It is good to hear that John Payson did some work to update the game. Notice Rob never asked what amount John should be paid?

It is good to hear that John Payson did some work to update the game. Notice Rob never asked what amount John should be paid?

Yeah, I noticed that too. I also notice that he never mentioned what royalties he made per cart from either Atari or Imagic back in the day. Seems to me that would have been more relevant.

I also think it's more of a status damage. Those people who would put $80 on the table for such a "collectors item" or "conversation piece" in the first place will probably still do so.

 

Agreed. Though I am still not sure if I really understand the average collector.

 

BTW: My idea for maximizing the profit would have been:

1. set a very high start price and strict cart limititation (a bit lower than expected demand )

2. sell copies for this price

3. reduce price by $1 (e.g. once each day)

4. repeat with 2.

 

I am sure there is a term for this kind of auction.

It's called Price Skimming

It's called Price Skimming

I found Dutch auction.

Anyone else put off by pricing at $79.95 rather than $80?

 

(EDIT: What I mean is a price only 5 cents away from $80, but unless you pay close attention, it appears to be in the $70-something range. This doesn't happen only with Actionauts, of course)

Anyone else put off by pricing at $79.95 rather than $80?

I would expect a hologram label for that amount (or at least gold foil).

Anyone else put off by pricing at $79.95 rather than $80?

I'm put off by the entire thing. But the price does seem particularly pretentious. On the other hand, it seems entirely fitting for something that was strictly a money-making endeavor anyway.

I've kinda kept out of this whole deal. I understand how some folks would see some value in this but I personally didn't like his condescending attitude. But the biggest rip of this entire thing, if I understand correctly, is that the game evidently isn't even finished and by his own standards it's only an "okay" game.

Well, that's okay since he never intended "players" to actually play it. It's just for "collectors and connoisseurs."

 

The whole premise seems weak. You enter in a program for a character to retrieve something. Then you see if it works. If not, you change the program and try again. To me, this sounds more agonizing than fun, especially with no way to save your progress.

 

When I was a little kid, someone gave me a motorized toy car (a Ford GT-40, I believe) that was about 1/24 scale, and you could program it using notched pieces of cardboard. You'd feed these cards into the bottom of the car, and as the motor ran, the card would be pulled through the car's chassis, and the notches would make the car's front wheels steer. So the idea was to set up a course with plastic cones, and put in the right card (or make your own) that would get the car to follow the course. Not a bad idea, and probably pretty advanced for the late 60's/early 70's. However, it wasn't the right kind of toy for a little kid.

 

When I was that age (I'm sure I was 8 or younger) that was not how I played with cars. I wanted to grab the car, and move it myself, making my own engine noises. I wanted to play with it, not watch it go off by itself. By default, the spring-loaded front wheels were always turned, so I had to leave a card stuck in the chassis, so they'd point forward. I may have had batteries in the thing once. I tend to think most programmable toys meet a similar fate. They may be interesting for an afternoon, but after that, you've basically exhausted their abilities to do whatever handful of tasks they were designed to do.

 

I see this game to be very similar. I really can't imagine this to be much fun. I want to play a video game - not watch a video game go do something by itself. I can't see paying $79.95 for that.

 

Now maybe if it had been Demon Attack 2...

Actually, if I'm not mistaken, there was an Apple II game similar to what this is so it's not a new concept. Rather a 2600 version of an existing popular game of the time. I think the game was called RobotWar or something like that. And I thought the game allowed you to build robots and programs and save and trade the robots with others. I never actually played it but remember some friends playing it in the early-mid 80's.

Actually, if I'm not mistaken, there was an Apple II game similar to what this is so it's not a new concept. Rather a 2600 version of an existing popular game of the time. I think the game was called RobotWar or something like that. And I thought the game allowed you to build robots and programs and save and trade the robots with others. I never actually played it but remember some friends playing it in the early-mid 80's.

It's not really like RobotWar, as that game has a real programming language that you use to create robots that will battle each other, and this game was very popular back in the day. Rob's game is more like Nathan said, where you enter a series of simple commands (maybe even just directions?) to navigate a course (as I understand it.)

 

I thought about doing a scaled-down RobotWar type game on the 2600, but I'm not sure if I will, as the programming language wouldn't be as extensive as RobotWar and probably more difficult to understand (though nowhere near as limiting as simple directional movements!)

While I would agree that Mr. Fulup probably has some unreasonable expectations, I am disgusted by the way he's treated here.

 

Atari 2600 programmers, for the most part, are motivated more by a desire to achieve recognition and to advance the art than by a desire to make money. Sure, money's nice, but and it's nice to have a hobby that doesn't lose money, but it's hardly the motivating factor.

 

Rob Fulup left the 2600 scene years ago. He doesn't really care about advancing the state of the art for a 30-year-old game system, and he's already achieved far more recognition for Demon Attack, Fathom, etc. than anything he could ever hope to achieve in future with the 2600. He's putting forth the effort to make this game because he hopes to earn some money doing so. Not a terribly huge amount, but enough to justify the time invested in taking the proto and moving it toward a release.

 

I had been hoping that I could work with Mr. Fulup on an Actionauts II cartridge, since I think the idea does have some real potential. The existing cart is somewhat limited because I wanted to stay reasonably true to what the game was in 1983; even there, I'd consider it a "real" game except for two caveats:

 

-1- There are some slight bugs that I haven't managed to track down, since I've tried to minimize changes to the original code (so as to avoid having any relocations break anything). They do not prevent the game from being played, and if the user avoids doing a couple of things that would 'stress' a couple parts of the code, they shouldn't crop up in normal use.

 

-2- The game only has about a dozen levels, and there isn't much to do once those are completed, though I would be surprised if people manage to clear all of the levels very quickly.

 

Mr. Fulup has certainly made some mis-steps in the forum, but that hardly justifies the antipathy some people have shown toward him. If Mr. Fulup is offering his game at a price which you find too steep, don't buy it. If his price is too high, he won't sell as many cartridges as if the price is lower, but that's his problem--no one else's. There seems to be an entitlement mentality here that, if left unchecked, will kill off new developments as programmers leave for more rewarding hobbies.

Does the 2600-version of Actionauts play like the C64-version?

 

http://noname.c64.org/csdb/release/?id=24867

Does the 2600-version of Actionauts play like the C64-version?

 

I've never tried the C64 version, but I will say that the new levels that were added in converting Actionauts from a 'proto' to a 'game' are unique to that version.

Mr. Fulup has certainly made some mis-steps in the forum, but that hardly justifies the antipathy some people have shown toward him. If Mr. Fulup is offering his game at a price which you find too steep, don't buy it. If his price is too high, he won't sell as many cartridges as if the price is lower, but that's his problem--no one else's. There seems to be an entitlement mentality here that, if left unchecked, will kill off new developments as programmers leave for more rewarding hobbies.

That's what bugged me most about the thread, that RF kept claiming that everybody felt entitled to cheap new games. Maybe that attitude was there, but I sure didn't see it.

 

IMO most folks' attitudes were more like, "I'll pay $30-$50 for this game, but beyond that I'm not interested."

 

That's not entitlement, that's called a free market. Do I have an entitlement mentality because I won't pay more than $50 for a pair of shoes? No...I have a free market mentality, as in I determine what something is worth to me and then I pay no more than that for said item. Also, I'm a cheap bastard.

 

The entitlement attitude is when people bitch and moan about those damn resellers snapping up all those games that used to be cheap on ebay. The common thread here is this: the buyers (as a group) set the market price, not the sellers.