A Sprite

It's far more annoying when ultra-PC white people make up ridiculous rules about what everyone/everything in the world is supposed to be referred to as. Anyway, moving on... I'm surprised this game is coming out in the U.S. at all. I wouldn't mind picking this up, I hope the release actually comes though and doesn't get cancelled. Yeah, because none of those dirty Japs complained about the internment camps. Don't play dumb; you know what you said, and you know it's history. Jess, you're one of the best.

Centipede on the 5200 is not the same game as the 8 bit. At least mention the more aggressive spider? It's what sold me on the 5200 as a system to begin with.

4. Defender didn't make it to the NES, but it's sequel did. The graphics are enhanced for the system. 3. Double Dragon is sloppy on the Master System, cheap as hell on the 2600, a failure twice for the C64, burdened with locked moves on the NES, and even the theoretically more faithful 7800 port needlessly complicates the situation by cloning Billy Lee for more than half the enemy force - that said, you get interesting comparisons in East vs. West game design. Playing through the 7800 version, and then switching to the original Gameboy control scheme is an advanced lesson in player empowerrment. Until you reach Super Abobo. Not bad, but due to the sloppy nature of the ports, we can still do better. 2. Galaxian/Galaga/Galaga '88-90 may be cheating, but between the 3 games, you have nearly every 8 bit ever made, plus a direct comparison between 2600, NES, and Master System style graphics. 1. Football/Basketball/Baseball/Boxing etc. Since sports games predate videogames, they're the closest you'll come to the same game on every system of worth ever made.

I've found it's easy to find help here if you show what you have in mind. Put together a screenshot of your concept - as ambitious as what you have in mind is, it's going to turn eyes. Especially if you can animate it...

Sorry, I dont get your comparison...or what your trying to say.....But SNES blows next to Jag or Neo...So What does this has to do with what? There really no games from either system SNES can run well if at all. Other than Bubsy,Double Dragon v a few Puzzle Bobble type games and the 1st Fatal Fury or King of Monsters. And my questions have been for 2D not 3D or SFX cards. AVP for SNES that would be funny tho...or should I say horrid...ugh! And thanks for reminding me on how much I miss playing Wolf3D! Nonner, if you're still here - to answer your questions... The Jaguar itself, using the usual cheap carts, could make Neo Geo type games with a solid programming team due to advances in memory compression. You'd likely see either frames of animation cut, or the characters made smaller, or an exciting new casio keyboard soundtrack in order to make up for it. Think GBA King of Fighters 2 or StreetFighter Alpha 3 in higher resolution and with a larger palette, and you've got a good idea of it. Older games like Samurai Showdown, Fatal Fury, and Art of Fighting could be converted with almost no hits. Past that, and it's time to break out the special treatment. Jag CD - Perfect conversions, with minimal load times. It could also handle Guilty Gear, or the enhanced PS2 King of Fighters '94 sprites. A good programming team might have been able to create Street Fighter: HD for a normal TV with no other losses of graphics data. A great one, using what is claimed to be possible, might have been able to bring out the high definition...I'm not clear on whether the advanced graphics modes were only for pictures and video, but still, there's a generation gap apparent between the Jaguar CD and the Neo Geo. Of course, none of this happened. The dirty secret of the Jaguar is that most development teams used the 68000 chip inside to handle everything - it might as well have been a Genesis with 32x palette support... Thank you for the comparison. That makes total sense to me. I would defiantly love to see something like Guilty Gear on the Jag. It would rock to see some stunning 2D stuff like any of your mentioned games. I just was not sure if it would have enough RAM to run large animations or would need a RAM card setup (if even possible) like the Saturn or if there was enough system memory to run some large 2D animations games like Marvel vs Capcom/King of fighters 2000+ stuff with no frame loss from the CD. I guess if I were to do a 2D game I would defiantly go CD..Your post has me more inspired to really try to get a 2D project rolling on Jag......My tops picks would be something new but along the style/game genre of maybe Shining Force 2 or a Final Fantasy tactics,Metal Slug 3,R-Type but more Robotech inspired or Street Fighter game with Atari (or classic gaming) Characters..can you say Dig Dug vs Mr Do! or A robot from Berzerk vs The Ostrich riding Knight from Joust (on bird)...all done in the style/animation of a Marvel vs Capcom game. That would be very fun indeed! Your enthusiasm is contagious. Now for the bad news...I owe you a mea culpa. Jag ram is 2 meg, same as a PSX or a Saturn. A strategy game it can do in it's sleep. But the fighters...? It's a good thing I picked out high definition games with low animation sets as the CD examples. I'm not sure a "Mark of the Wolves" would be possible. Your hypothetical memory expansion cart could be up to 6 meg, but the catch is that you're going to need incredible skills to bypass the 68000 and sync up the rest of the system. Just how good are you?

Sorry, I dont get your comparison...or what your trying to say.....But SNES blows next to Jag or Neo...So What does this has to do with what? There really no games from either system SNES can run well if at all. Other than Bubsy,Double Dragon v a few Puzzle Bobble type games and the 1st Fatal Fury or King of Monsters. And my questions have been for 2D not 3D or SFX cards. AVP for SNES that would be funny tho...or should I say horrid...ugh! And thanks for reminding me on how much I miss playing Wolf3D! Nonner, if you're still here - to answer your questions... The Jaguar itself, using the usual cheap carts, could make Neo Geo type games with a solid programming team due to advances in memory compression. You'd likely see either frames of animation cut, or the characters made smaller, or an exciting new casio keyboard soundtrack in order to make up for it. Think GBA King of Fighters 2 or StreetFighter Alpha 3 in higher resolution and with a larger palette, and you've got a good idea of it. Older games like Samurai Showdown, Fatal Fury, and Art of Fighting could be converted with almost no hits. Past that, and it's time to break out the special treatment. Jag CD - Perfect conversions, with minimal load times. It could also handle Guilty Gear, or the enhanced PS2 King of Fighters '94 sprites. A good programming team might have been able to create Street Fighter: HD for a normal TV with no other losses of graphics data. A great one, using what is claimed to be possible, might have been able to bring out the high definition...I'm not clear on whether the advanced graphics modes were only for pictures and video, but still, there's a generation gap apparent between the Jaguar CD and the Neo Geo. Of course, none of this happened. The dirty secret of the Jaguar is that most development teams used the 68000 chip inside to handle everything - it might as well have been a Genesis with 32x palette support...

1. If we're going to use flicker for certain, can we multicolor the sprites? Right now, the monochrome is the biggest hurdle to creating new animations. 2. Apologies for needing to ask, but can you provide an example of each flicker in action? My quality control assistants are generous with their time, but are new to the 2600 - most were born after it was taken from the shelves.

Rayman with 4096 colors thanks to the GBA. vs. Jag. There's a huge difference in the amount of dithering used, due to the 16 color limitations of the Advance sprites...a weakness shared by the Neo Geo hardware.

Didn't many PS2 developers find that higher polygon counts weren't worth the hit to lighting and textures? An example: FFX has a higher polygon count than FFXII. Just force Vaan and crew close to the camera, and check out the crab claws. Metal Gear Solid 3 achieved the same results by cutting the frame rate in half. Perhaps if the Dreamcast had lived long enough to see the shift in videogame art direction, it's hardware would be thought of as being ahead of it's time...

So, here I am again, and hoping to still make this happen. Even if I've lost you, Maus, thanks for giving me the chance. I'll still use this thread to finish the design portion of the game - it's personal. I'm making it part of fighting my illness. Meanwhile, it's embarassing how hard it is...having an idea isn't the same as making it happen. I can plan for birds that are more than stick figures: But is it worth pursuing them?

If you're looking for golden age arcade ports on a post crash system, skip the NES, and try the GBA SP. Bit of research required ( 4 versions of Defender, 5 ways to play Pac-Man... ) But the list is long, many classics are sold in collections, and you can still find many games in stores...

You're missing an entire generation in there. The Master System's an easier pick up in Europe than the NES, but you'd be better off with the Game Gear - more sprites, more colors, and the potential for backwards compatibility. The catch is that most of it's library are downgraded Megadrive games, or available on the Gamecube/GBA. The screen is blurred to the point where it could pass for an anti-drug warning. Batteries last for a few hours, and you need 6 of them. So unless you're serious about collecting, feel free to skip it. Instead, pick up a Super Nintendo, and a device called the Super 8. You'll have a huge 16 bit library, and access to every 8 bit Nintendo game, while skipping the dead grey toasters entirely... If that's too expensive of an option, look for pirated PAL compatible NES clones. It'll take some research, as many of the modern ones are flawed... The third alternative is to buy a Wii. This will also give you access to the Turbografx, NEO GEO, and C64 libraries... You also need a PS2.

You saved the mouse! Apologies for the wait - my internet's down until the middle of the month. I'm able to log in at the library until then, but can't bring in outside discs... Wait for me?

Not with a super action controller. I think that would do just nicely! Can Super Mario be done on the CV... time will tell but the scrolling would look ummm... yeah the CV's scrolling doesn't seem so hot... but maybe some programming wizard will tackle this project!! Who needs scrolling?

Thanks for both the kind words, and the brutal honesty. 8 pixel limits are hard on the eyes - more than once I thought it would be impossible to even get across the idea of cat. One misplaced pixel on the face can turn the kitten into a grinning skull. Here's the mouse sprite. It has no animation, due to small size and lack of detail. ( I wanted it to be smaller than the kitten...it wouldn't be the same if both were equals. ) It's behavior is to look move in short bursts, then stop and look around. If it sees the player, the game briefly pauses, a flickering exclamation point appears, the mouse jumps high, and can now move faster than the player. Making matters worse, it turns on a dime, and seldom sticks to a straight path. Your tackle attack ( Attack animations are my next project. ) can move faster than the mouse, but if you miss, there's a short recovery time while the kitten takes a tumble. If you simply paw swipe at it, the mouse runs in the opposite direction, allowing you to herd it towards a dead end. Every three paw swipes will temporarily slow it down for a few seconds, to where the player is just as fast as the mouse. The question mark signals that the player disappeared behind something or walked off screen and then returned without alerting the mouse. The mouse will freeze for a few seconds, and look around trying to find the player... How did I do? Is this a gameplay mechanic that will entertain the player? Will the mouse's behavior be enough to overlook the lack of detail?

Once I give Maus enough to work with. Which would be starting with this first set, if he approves of the animations. The theory is that the kitten should bound forward in a series of small jumps instead of walking. When facing towards or away from the player, the sprite lifts up for an instant before moving forward - hopefully that conveys the idea. Oh yeah, and the first sprite is intended to represent the player coming to a sudden stop. The same sprite that shows the kitten landing from a leap also works as a tail raised in alarm...in theory. If not, I'll add draw more movement in the tail, so that it remains in motion even at rest.

I'll play the role of bad guy. The past only works better when we filter out the bodies. We've already seen the scenario occur if we take the question literally, and allow no creative work around: take an 8bit cpu capped at 10mhz, and you have a GBC. While the system has one of the strongest libraries of games ever made, it also has one of the worst, and the bad outnumbers the good by at least a 4 to 1 margin. Whether it's graphics over gameplay ( Perfect Dark ), or the complication involved in adapting too ambitious of an idea ( The Tony Hawk series ), even good teams can fall victim to problems we no longer even think about. As consumers, we wouldn't see much of a difference beyond bad video games ...and a more user friendly internet. The GUI dates back to the late 60's. The desktop comes to us from the early 80's. A flat cap on what technology can achieve means more time spent refining the user's experience. We skip Windows Vista entirely. Youtube is your choice of a tiny window or pixels the size of emoticons. Webpages skip flash openings. Copyright lawyers stick mostly to suing public schools for their use of Mickey Mouse. On the other hand, any spyware makes your computer die. A single virus bricks it forever. It all balances out.

Both sprites, the ball, and one missile can be doubled up at 30hz, but one missile will be used for no_blank_lines. So with the missile, ball, and sprites you have a total of 8 objects to work with. I like you attack ideas, but you haven't posted any animations for walking or attacking yet. If you aren't having any luck with animation, do you know of anyone here at AtariAge who is good at sprites and might be willing to contribute? *thinks* Animation is doable. My mistake was trying to skip straight ahead to a polished level design without taking the baby steps. Let me see what I can conjure with just a focused effort on the cat. As far as others helping, there's no shortage of good animators here. Once there's something to show them, they generally offer their assistance. I think if we can get as far as a chase sequence, and a small bit of interaction between the cats, it'll be a strong enough proof of concept?

I owe you an apology. What was planned and what basic allows are too far apart. It's not a question of whether it can be done, as much as whether it would still be a good game... What was planned: 4 other cats. 4 types of prey animal. (bird, mouse, rabbit, and squirrel) Different behaviors for each depending on emotion. A scared animal runs faster. An animal that's thankful might help you. etc 2 attacks when in motion, based on distance from prey and speed. Slow to just stopped = paw swipe. All out speed = pounce. Free roaming world. Interactive background objects (climbable trees, holes in walls, bushes that could be hidden behind, plus graphical variations with the same properties. ) Pre-scripted animations during gameplay - for instance, you'd chase a mouse and another cat might come out to watch. A highway scene, where the lights of cars would be the only lighting in an all black screen...you have just enough warning to know when to run to avoid an instant death. For the most part, it was based on the idea of playing the Dragon in adventure, and making peace or enemies with the other Dragons. But with only two sprites and minimal detail on the backgrounds even compared to other 2600 games... I need help. It hurts bad to admit it. I have no idea whether or not anyone will offer it, or whether it's even deserved... But if you like the idea, want to see it happen...any ideas would be welcome. If not, thanks for giving me the chance to think like a programmer. It meant more to me than you can imagine.

All those games except Adventure 2 can be found on the Atari 8bit. Plus the Atari 8bit has MORE games. Haunted House 2 and Combat 2 are also only on the Atari 5200 if you want to pay high for one. But those games are not great. Centipede 5200 is a unique port. Not only were the graphics polished, but the difficulty is increased thanks to a more aggressive spider, and a smaller playfield. It's the game that sold me on the 5200. There's less wasted space in the play, every move you make has consequences. The Videogame Critic gives it an A- vs. the 8 bits' C.

I'm finding I can replace the claw sprite with a missile, and it passes for a paw. Currently reworking every screen to account for the new limitations - with only two sprites at a time, this turns into a magic show... Cat chases mouse...but they get too near another cat's hiding place, triggering an animation... This cat doesn't trust you yet, thus saving a sprite. It'll take advantage of any food that comes it's way...if you herd enough food it's way, perhaps it'll come out of hiding. Apologies for the rough sketching - I wanted to get this down before the idea passed.

The limitations would be: two 8x70 sprites, can be stretched horizontally to 16x70 or 32x70 two missiles, in 1x70, 2x70, 4x70, or 8x70 a ball, in 1x70, 2x70, 4x70, or 8x70 Playfield resolution is 32x31 Anything else you want to know, you'll have to be more specific. I like your sample sprites, but the claw would require either flickering the player sprite, or using both sprites for the player. Does that fit into your design for this game? Nothing is too presumptuous, more details means easier programming. How were you intending to implement a communication system between cats? Maybe icons would work. I keep thinking about that ancient CGA DOS game Alley Cat; I used to love playing that on my PC jr, which had my very first cordless keyboard. Those sure have come a long way...anyway I'm glad you picked #2, there haven't been many cats in 2600 games. Apologies for the delays in responding. Real life got in the way. 1. Yeah, sprite flicker is part of the design at present. I'm hoping to minimize it by keeping the cats away from each other whenever possible, but there's no way to avoid it briefly during a successful hunt. Unless the scan line trick isn't an option here, in which case...maybe it can be justified by the environment's aesthetic? The addition of fading street lights, and passing cars, perhaps? 2. Alley Cat was a huge influence. I've never played it, but I fell in love with screenshots. 3. Icons are a great idea. Especially since almost everyone uses them now - the less players need to think about the game logic, the more they relate to the characters... Thank you.

Actually, not a problem making number 2 work with the limitations. And I'm designing the entire playfield...unless that's too presumptious? The real challenge is creating an avatar the player can identify with in a low resolution. Here's a preview from my sketchbook: Originally I intended to go for a more realistic look, but in order to create the illusion of detail in low resolution, it'd cost enough frames of animation to where the entire game would be a tech demo. Just sorting out the legs alone is a nightmare in traffic control. This is the second attempt: Kitten goomba, with ideas borrowed from Nintendo's Game and Watch series. On the left you can see the fierce warrior claw swipe at an imaginary enemy - if you squint. I'm hoping it'll make more sense visually in context... So, apologies for the long wait. I'm learning as I go: this is my first real animation project, and it's been an eye-opener. I've gained way more respect for those who can manage the compromises needed, and still come through the other end of the gauntlet with their vision intact. I'd recommend this kind of down to details work to anyone who's got a dream of making a game. Or really, any dream. Get in the trenches. Get shot. Get blown up with a grenade or two. Bleed all over the carpet. Make a complete fool of yourself. Then pick yourself up, and try again. Keep at it until you get it right, ...or until your sponsor stops extending the deadline and forces you to settle for "doesn't break".

Give me a week to make a decent presentation? If I fail, I want to fail with my best...

Apologies. I wasn't going to show my face here again until I had finished all the sprites, animations, level design...can you tell I have no idea what I'm doing? I wanted to prove that us idea peddlers weren't slackers. What are you asking for, specifically?