Philflound

Don't forget the other 2 I mentioned. I didn't scan them. Did you want scans? They were Hangman and Hunt & Score. I own 2 Hunt & Score boxed copies and both had the same tiny flaps that matched. I probably will have Air Sea Battle too as I have several boxed copies of that of different variations. By the way, was your Basketball with the "2" also Bertco Graphics 8/78? I was thinking about the theory of the tiny numbers. It may have something to do with possible stacks of printed boxes. Like batches. So the first batch may have a tiny "1" and consist of say 5000 boxes. Then the next batch may have tiny "2" and consist of the next 5000 boxes. My uncle is a paper cutter, and though never cut Atari boxes, he did cut trading cards for Topps. I'm wondering if there were something to distinguish which run they were from.

Daniel has been helping me out with my site for a long time now. He has approached me with this project of his own, so I'm happy to help him. I will verify his specific versions as I have in inventory, but found something very interesting. https://www.atariopenbox.com/atari-2600-colection/cart-text-label/box-c011822-v-1 (The above link is the box version I'm referring to). With the box release after the Gatefold boxes, which I've called the "Game Program", I mention in my site on the list about the printer on the tiny flap. Some of these Game Program boxes have the product number on the bottom tiny flap, but the other bottom tiny flap is blank (no printer). I then have some that have Bertco Graphics on the other tiny flap as the printer. The thing is, boxes with the Bertco Graphics printer has the product number, but in the middle part also lists a tiny number. "2", "3", and "6" in the particular cases I'm showing here. I presented Daniel with a question of whether or not these represented a "print run" in the boxes. Slot Racers has the 2. Is there a Slot Racers Game Program box version that has no printer and no tiny "2" on the flaps? Does this mean the "2" version is a 2nd printing of the boxes? Are there other printings of the Slot Racer boxes? Basketball I show I have a "3" and a "6" version. The box itself is IDENTICAL! I can find no differences between these 2 boxes whatsoever short of the different numbers. So look at the scans I've provided. If you have the "Game Program" versions of any of these games and can look at the bottom of the flaps, see if you have different numbers, or even "blank" versions with no printer. Also, if you have any opinion on this theory, feel free to share. I never considered getting this in-depth with the variations. I may leave this up to Daniel if we can come up with a clearer conclusion. Phil

I wanted to point out that I have started a collecting video series on Youtube. I never created videos or a Youtube channel, so there will be nothing fancy here. The channel is called "Collecting, Investing or Somewhere In-Between". It's going to cover many different areas of collecting. I'm beginning the series with vintage video games, but will eventually move on to comic books, trading cards, action figures, and many other genre. It's an informative series and I don't anticipate ever making any money with it. Some of the videos have been running rather long. The Atari 2600 video alone ran over 2 hours and I still had more to say. I'll be giving some history about the collectible I'm discussing including personal history of how I may have gotten into it or discussing my childhood if that was where I was introduced to said collectible. I'm trying to show examples in the video and will occasionally put in scans and on-screen recording. It's a bit rough in the beginning and I'm not having fancy backgrounds or backdrops. Again, it's the first time I'm doing this and I'm sort of winging it. I don't have hours to spend on editing and such so I'm usually going with the flow. After some discussion with friends and co-workers, I decided to keep each individual released video to around no more than 1 hour. So I cut the Atari 2600 into 2 parts and part 1 just rather ends without any final "note" saying goodbye. Future episodes I'll try and create a small into and ending if I split the video into parts. I'll get better over time. I released a pre-intro video explaining some things briefly (under 4 minutes) and then my real intro video which is the first I ever did is almost an hour. The Atari 2600 part 1 was just released last night. I'll link each video and if you have any interest, feel free to watch. Pause or go back to the videos if you think they're too long for a single viewing. I'm not going to give a specific time limit for anything I talk about. I'm giving the information that I think needs to be discussed and even then, I seem to forget some things. I may use some notes but have no script. I think improv is more fun. I may seem a bit mechanical at first. Again, it's the first time I'm doing this. But as I go on, I'll feel a bit more relaxed and hopefully the videos become a bit more enjoyable. Episode 2 shows this website along with Atarimania and I mention some others that I use for information either in the video or will be listed in the comments. I had some problems with my audio cutting out in the last few minutes of Episode 2 so I need to re-record the last part of it tomorrow. Episode 2 also covers the 5200 and 7800. I do mention Lynx and Jaguar briefly but don't go into depth with them. Episode 3 is already finished and covers the Intellivision. Episode 4 hopefully will also be recorded tomorrow and will cover the Colecovision. SMS will have its own episode as will the original NES. If I can find my inventory of other game systems like Odyssey 2, Bally Astrocade, and some other smaller ones, I'll try and make videos of them too. If not, I'll move to comic books and eventually come back to other stuff in the future. So hopefully you'll enjoy and possibly learn from what I'm presenting. I just wanted to do something for collectors out there, but more importantly, I wanted to do it for myself. At 50 years old, I don't know how much more time I have on this earth. So at least people can remember me by something. I'm attaching all the links. You can go directly to the Atari 2600 if you want to skip the intro, but I think the intro has some important and useful information along with discussing what the video series will be involving. Thanks for watching and feel free to subscribe, ask question, make comments or like (or dislike) what you're watching. Phil Here is the channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCV6KFNYmF0YsONFCAShqydA

Got it! Thanks. Haven't updated much at all the past couple of weeks. Been busy again with some personal stuff. Only so much time in the day. I'll try and do more this weekend. I was working on the Activision manuals and discovered for some reason I don't have some of the b&W and foreign ones that I should have had in my possession since I have specifics on size. The only time I do that is if I physically measure them. I'm a bit confused about this.

At this time I'm unsure why I'm missing some of the Activision manuals on my list. Any manual on the list with a size length and width meant I physically had it in my hand. I've gone through all the manuals I thought I had in stock and am missing some of the black and white and foreign versions that I should possess. I'll try and work on them again as I didn't get very far, but there will be holes that I won't have scans of until I either acquire them from someone else, or "find" them in a box somewhere. I got up early this morning because during the week I wake up early. Lots of things were going through my head, so it was difficult to fall back to sleep. One of which was the original Giant Variation List I had acquired from newsgroups. I remember this list because I had my father print it out at the time in the mid-1990s. I remember there being what I considered a large amount of variations of both cartridges and boxes. The list was an amazing 56 or 58 pages long, which was fun to carry around with my DP price guide. I thought I may have had that original print out, but most likely I threw it away. Anyway, cleaning the list up and adding manuals and other paperwork, and of course finding and documenting new cartridge and box variations, the list has considerably grown. I may have even shrunk the font size down some. At the moment, the list is 159 pages long and I have some new entries to add thanks to Daniel. All I can say is "WOW". We've come a long way. I'll probably get the most up to date list on the site in the pdf format that I've been putting up there within the next couple of days. I just want to finish adding and updating a few items. So like I say most of the time, thanks for your help and if you can add anything or fill in gaps on the site, please help out. Phil

Since I had put my research on hold and was just working with what I had, I didn't find out they weren't there any more until a few months ago. Yes, they did have the manual scans that no one else had. I've lost a good resource. I just posted the Boxing manuals for Activision and I believe 3, maybe even 4 of the variations were from Atariguide. You can see their watermark. Even if the site is gone, their legacy will live on with some of my scans. If anyone has any info to get in touch with whomever owned the site, let me know. I'd like to see if they still have all those scans. Maybe I can gain access and make sure my site has every known variation it should show. Phil

Ok, been a month since I last posted and here are the updates: 1. Finished what I have for Sears carts and boxes. I finally got access to my personal collection, so I'll probably try and add side box scans for what I have. 2. Added Playaround carts. Will most likely add the boxes this weekend. 3. I've been getting some new and updated info for the Atari released games from Daniel. He's trickling me info to keep me from being overwhelmed, so you'll see small updates, or maybe you won't notice, but there are small updates. I also got all my extra manuals in order, so eventually I'll be working on those too. Things like printers/dates on the tiny flaps are being added, so though you don't think it's a big deal, every little detail helps us. Daniel and I are trying to coordinate and organize/figure out release dates for each variation. This is a monumental project, and you will probably not see it for some time. This will probably be a separate project not on my website. 4. I updated the General Activision Variations page explaining about the manuals and how they were released. I mention Activision having 3 different headquarters. I may try and do some research as to when they actually moved headquarters to give a better timeline. Go to this page on my site for more details. 5. Not sure if I mentioned this at all, but I'm going to try and tackle the Activision manuals next. Funny thing is that I didn't believe I did too many of the manuals from the 3rd party companies, but clicking on the companies, I see I actually did get a lot done. Though most of these only have 1 manual which made them easier, at least more stuff got done. Right now I just added Boxing, which has 7 manual variations. The 8th not on the list is Boxing/La Boxe which I can't find any scans of and don't own a copy myself. If anyone has this and can get me scans and details as I put in my descriptions. Manuals, especially Activision, will have more details on most. The earlier released games from 1980-1 will probably have the most variations, whereas late released games in 1983-4 may have just 1 and possibly a black and white or foreign version. I'm noting things like company address, Atari copyright info on back or lack of, Rev numbers, and even the "Look for other Activision..." notices on the back. These types of items were changed or removed. The other big notification is Activision started as a TM trademark and eventually became (R) registered. I did notice with Boxing that my theory on release goes out of order for some reason. My guess is that they had more than one printer and where one changed the Activision address and TM, the other didn't and gave the old Address and left the TM instead of the (R). Again, just a theory. If anyone has anything to add or correct me on, please let me know. Send proof please. I can only work with scans, not on word. Word is what got the Giant List with much misinformation in the first place, which I had to either eliminate or fix. Again, thanks Daniel and any others who have been helping. I'm trying to put a lot of time and effort with the site and get as much done and accurate as possible. Phil

How much did you pay?

What's the link for the listing? I'd like to see how the seller described it and titled it.

I don't have it in front of me, but that "gold" text/border version is a bleed through or something like that and is not age. It is definitely gold. I've had several copies and probably still do though all my stock is packed away at the moment since I just moved. It reminds me of the purple bleed through several of the text titles have. I'm not sure if it was the label or possibly the glue they used, but it definitely discolors the text color. The purple bleed through makes the text look purplish instead of white. I'm not sure if I ever put that as a variation though. I believe the Home Run was on the initial list I got back in 1996, so I left it. I did remove several variations from the list that either I could find no existence of or that you could fabricate. Some of the fabrication labels I may have left and put in () that this can be fabricated or some word like that. Switching end labels I believe was the most common form of fabrication. All you needed to do was glue one end label on another variation and you have a "variation". I never liked those. I'm assuming there are some out there that are legit. Anyway, when I get to my stock eventually, I'll see if I can pull out some of the Home Run gold bleed through and take a photo of them. That is if I remember. Phil

I actually put that on my "should exist" list as I haven't seen one yet. Though I haven't really been looking too hard. There are many manuals on that list that I'm removing because I now have seen a copy on the internet.

When I get finished with all my 3rd party carts and boxes on my website, I will be moving on to the manuals. I'll drop you a line, probably this summer hopefully, when I begin the project for manuals. There are a few 3rd party companies I've already completed to my knowledge. Apollo, Data Age, and M Network come to mind. There are also several 3rd party with few titles that I would have put the manual(s) for. Anyway, I'm hoping to update my pdf file within the next 2 weeks. That will give you an inkling of what I've documented. Though I haven't really gone through thoroughly with research as to all the manual variations out there. I've been working with Daniel (see my Giant Variation thread) and he's been helping big time and will actually be extremely helpful even more in the future. I'm about to finally get settled with my move and am going full steam with this finally. This project has been going on for a good 12 years now. Scans are a pain, especially for those manuals with 5 languages. Once I get going seriously with the manuals, any scans you can provide me will be helpful. My research on the variation list will include everything I KNOW exists. I may not have scans though due to seeing just a front/back cover on the internet but not having access to the entire manual. So anything on my list does exist and will have as much information as possible. I recently added a page on Atari items that I think "should exist". The manual list has been dwindling as I've been doing research on them, even just to prove they do. So when I get some time, I'll check out what you have and maybe will update my list if I get a chance. I'm hopefully going to unpack my collection soon and want to get more scans and detailed info if I can. I've been working on Sears with I believe 12 titles to go, but need many side box scans. So again, any help would be appreciated. Phil

I bought from O 'Shea back in 1997 I believe, possibly 1996. I paid 87 cents shipped for games and got somewhere around 600 games. I had my receipt handy a few years ago, but since I moved to Florida, everything is in boxes. I purchased at least 6 of every title he had, unless he didn't have sealed cases. I do remember only getting 3 Midnight Mutants. I still have a copy of each game I bought in my collection. The majority of the rest were sold at $5 for the commons. I still do have a considerable amount of the 7800 games sealed, though not too many titles. Haven't put anything up for sale though in a couple of months, again thanks to the move to my new house. I think it's crazy as to what is out there. I just read the Venezuela horde thread sylabyss posted. I can't imagine all these games just sitting down there. Anyway, it was great reminiscing. Phil

Sorry, got this reversed with the warranty One is a standard flap style with the warranty notice in 2 columns and 2 line copyright notice below that. The second is a glued flap style with the warranty notice in paragraph form and 3 line copyright notice below that. Phil

Decided to try and finish the Sears cartridges and boxes. I was looking at Superman and discovered there are actually 2 box variations. It's hard enough to find any copy, let alone for the completist to get both. One is a standard flap style with the warranty notice in paragraph form and 2 line copyright notice below that. The second is a glued flap style with the warranty notice in 2 columns and 3 line copyright notice below that. I'm having someone fix my scans so when I get them back, I'll actually update this immediately on the site, even though I'd be going out of order. I think this one is important. Phil EDIT: It's up for all to see

I'm glad you will get enjoyment. I'm sort of going through the same thing and will continue for months. Almost all of my personal belongings are packed away from moving and have been for years. I'm finally getting the opportunity to open these boxes and it feels like Christmas. I know of much of what I own, but sometimes I open a box that I have no idea what is inside and when I see the contents, I think to myself "Oh, I remember this!" or even "I have no idea when I bought this or even had it". I'm a little frustrated with the advent of WATA for the fact there are many "investors" coming into the hobby just for the money. These people have no clue about video games. But I was also told that any hobby which begins having 3rd party graders join in will always draw these kinds of people. They have no love for the hobby and don't realize the amount of time that collectors spend dedicating and enjoying it. We are the people to enjoy it. Why I get upset is that now if I try to acquire certain items, I have to pay much more for said items. The good thing is that those who want to get into "collecting" the games can do so for relatively no money as there are many available copies, even complete in box, that are available for relatively little money. With doing this website, I get to purchase complete in box games still at reasonable prices, even though I'm paying up to double what I used to. I always tried and still try to price complete games fair. I remember selling most of the CIB games for $10-15. Now some of those same games are $25-40. I don't make a fortune, but it helps my research and gets me a little extra money to live. I heard the first graded Atari 2600 sealed Spider-Man in 9.8 by Wata auctioned off at $9000. Yes, you saw that right. The thing is that this was the highest graded and 1st to be put on the market. As others go on the market, the price will come down. But they still command a reasonable price. The thing right now is that no one knows how rare some of these variants are. Though some games are very common. I can think of many of those silver box Atari Corp issues that are extremely common from titles like Jungle Hunt, Kangaroo, Galaxian, Ms. Pac-Man, Battlezone, and others and also many red box commons that you continually see available brand new sealed. Thing is, some of those same titles have some really rare Atari Corp variations. I never put a rarity on the boxes. Most of all because someone would have to sit there and track each and every variation out there and keep the data. 99% of what is being sold isn't being noted as to which variation it is. Anyway, enjoy your collection as you see fit. You spent the money and if you get the pleasure of opening the games, all I ask is try to preserve the condition as best as possible. And thanks for everything you've provided me. You've been a big help. I'm going to try and get much done with the site this summer. I've said this many times before, and I get into these ruts where I do lots of work. If I was shut down during the whole Covid thing, I would have gotten tons done, but my company was open the entire time. I own tons of items that I need to sell online. I have a good 10,000+ comics I would like to part with, the video games, trading cards, toys and what not. And of course I got the new house and a wife I've been with for almost 20 years. So my spare time is limited as to what I can get accomplished and how to split it up. I've been trying to keep up with everything Daniel has been providing along with adding new items myself from research. The Sears cartridges and boxes are a priority. When I finally get to open and have access to my collection, whatever Sears boxes I own I'll finally get to scan the sides and get more photos on the site. So again, be patient and if anyone can help, I appreciate it. Thanks again. Phil

Please do not open sealed games. There is big money right now and I don't want to see you lose out because of research. Get your games graded with WATAGAMES and you should make a small fortune.

I want to thank Daniel again for his ever seeking quest for new variations. He just brought to my attention a new 3-D Tic Tac Toe box variant. I have added this as box 3 now, which is the white warranty box with the date inside. This leads me to conclude that the white warranty with the date outside the box should exist as it would lie between the original and the newly discovered variation. A few years ago, I discovered both of the white warranty boxes of Superman. Daniel has sent me scans of a white warranty box version sealed with a wallet, which I'll be adding sometime this weekend. Again, I would not doubt there are many of these types of variations out there that should fill in holes. It's just a matter of finding them. It's taken years and years just to discover that some of these actually do exist, so I'm not doubting there are more out there. I'm still filling in the German Activision variations. All this is a tedious process with my full time job and my finishing moving, but I think it's well worth it. How far we've come in the past 25 years since I first looked at this "Giant list of variations". My guess is that it has tripled in size if not more. I asked Daniel, and I might as well pose the question to everyone. I'm looking to get the information of the Rev and printer/dates on the 5 language boxes that were released from like 1978-1980 off the tiny flaps. I ask this because I'm trying to get a good idea on the timeline these were released in conjunction with the original game. My guess is within a few months if not almost at the same time, but I need lots of info on these as I don't have ready access to the boxes themselves and most people don't show the tiny flaps in any listings of these games. Thanks. Phil EDIT: Just luck chance looking on Ebay and I discovered a Tic Tac Toe "ninety day limited warranty" variation. I'll update that soon. YAY!

Note that Combat has 2 versions of the gatefold box. I'm actually not sure which was released first. My guess is the vertical slot is the original release and they realized that removing and putting back the manual was not easy. So they probably changed it to the slanted slot. I don't have any of my games in front of me, but I think the other gatefold boxes had slanted slots.

Glad to see some new responses. Litho in USA is the first original release. I don't know if you looked at the PDF file, which needs to be updated. It's been several months. These are what I have documented in the way of Combat manuals and since each one has a specific size noted, that means I had them in my hands or most likely still do as I need to scan them all. Eventually I will write a detailed list about the manuals like I did with the cartridges and boxes under the GENERAL ATARI LABEL AND BOX VARIATIONS. To give a brief summary, you had the original black small release with the Litho in USA. Taiwan ones for Combat came with most likely the Taiwan box variations. Since I own dozens and dozens of Combat manuals, there are probably no black Rev 1 and 2 versions for Combat. There were some strange things going on with Rev numbers on some titles as there are some boxes that have Rev 1 and 4, but nothing in between. In fact, there may be some titles with only one release that only had Rev 4 written on the box. I can't remember offhand and don't have time to look it up. After the black release came the white larger size manuals. For some titles such as Missile Command and Video Pinball that come to mind, there were small white manuals and then afterwards went to the larger 5x7. If titles were released by Atari Corporation/Atari Corp from 1985-1988, the manuals would most likely have gone black and white. Red box versions had manuals white, but had red lettering on them, easier to distinguish that these are specific to the red boxes. International manuals I believe always had 5 languages, even for box variations that only have 3 languages. Again, don't hold me to anything, but when I finally get to this, a lot will be explained. As for 3rd party manuals, anything goes. You may have one specific non-English language, dual English/French for Canadian versions, or multi-language versions. Again, depends on which company and whether there are lots of different county variations. My particular fun 3rd party company that covers many different languages is CBS. Anyway, below are the Combat manuals known from years ago. I haven't updated anything in a while. Since there is a 1986 box, my guess is that there should be a 1986 manual, though no 1986 cartridge exists to my knowledge. A) Manual ©1977, black, C011402-01 on front, 8 pages, 4 x 6.5”, Litho in USA, no Rev B) Manual ©1977, black, C011402-01 on front, 8 pages, 4 x 6.5”, Printed in Taiwan in small letters, no Rev C) Manual ©1977, black, C011402-01 on front, 8 pages, 4 x 6.5”, Printed in Taiwan in large letters, no Rev D) Manual ©1977, black, C011402-01 on front, 8 pages, 4 x 6.5”, Printed in Taiwan, Rev 3 E) Manual ©1977, black, C011402-01 on back, 8 pages, 4 x 6.5”, Printed in USA, Rev 4 F) Manual ©1977, white, C016942-01 on back, 12 pages, 5 x 7”, Printed in USA, Rev 1 G) Manual ©1977, white, C016943-01 on back, 12 pages, 5 x 7”, Made in Macau, Rev 1 H) Manual ©1977, white, C017878-01 on back, 12 pages, 5 x 7”, Printed in Taiwan, Rev 1 I) Manual ©1978, white, C016973-01 on back, 5 languages, 40 pages, 5 x 7”, Printed in Macau, Rev 2 J) Manual ©1978, white, C016973-01 on back, 5 languages, 40 pages, 5 x 7”, Printed in Taiwan, Rev 2 EDIT: Ok, just reviewed all the gatefold boxed games. Litho in USA is only under Air-Sea Battle and Combat. The others all have black manuals with either no printed or Printed in USA on them. None of these have a Rev number because they would be the first release for the game. So if you look at the pdf giant list, you'll be able to figure out which manual belongs to the gatefold versions. They will always be Manual A.

With the help of Daniel, I am updating some of the photos that weren't straightened along with adding many Activision boxes. I'm working on putting some of the foreign boxes like the German ones, and I just found a Dutch sticker version for Chopper Command. (EDIT) I'm not sure if it applies to all the boxes, but it'll take some time to go through all the games. The Dutch sticker box versions as far as I can see say PAL/SECAM on them. The German sticker box versions have on the right bottom "for use exclusively on PAL/SECAM...". So it seems these 2 boxes are totally different. I wish I could get my hands on these to confirm any Rev and printer/dates on the tiny flap. But I'll be adding all these variations and probably more over the next few days. (END EDIT) I'm about to move my computer finally (hopefully) by next weekend, so there may be a delay in updating things. But for the next few days I'll keep working on this. I'm sorry I put the Sears back on hold. Can only work on one section at a time, and the bug hit me to work on the Activision boxes. I also was fixing the wording of the listings. I'm trying to remain consistent. I found there are 2 versions of PAL/SECAM on the back of the boxes, so I'm being a little more specific with that. Also, I'm trying to find all the boxes with UPC codes on the bottom and add that UPC bottom of the box scan. I have added some and will create a "blank" filler for those I don't have and hopefully will find. I've also considered adding another page directly from the Atari 2600 one listing scans I need that I know exist. There are variations out there that I don't have scans of, and I'm sure there are even more variations I don't have shown at all because I don't know they exist. It's very difficult to try and find everything out there, just to show its existence, and I'm so grateful for Daniel because he has been working as hard on finding me scans and new items as I have. I hope others will try and help me out. Now that WATA games is grading Atari games, they'll need much help and I've been trying to be as useful as possible. Thanks for all the support. Phil

While trying to confirm the Basketball manuals online, I came across another 1987 grey tone box variation. So Basketball now has 10 total box variations. I always love doing research. Post more stuff when I find them.

I've possibly thought that they put the 1986 cartridges in the 1983 boxes with the "Made in Taiwan" silver sticker over the "Made in USA" 6 language boxes. I'm hoping there are variations for those though with 1986 boxes. Thanks again for all your help.

Been confirming more manuals and adding some more to the list. Will update the list soon as I go through it all. I'm adding in original release international manual 5 language versions if I don't have them on my giant list and can't confirm them. I do want to pose a question about Basic Math. I have on the list an English/French instruction manual, most likely in my inventory since it's confirmed with size and page count. So I'm wondering does anyone know what this came with? Is there a Canadian box version out there? Maybe an original box with a sticker? I'll post other inquiries as I come across evidence.

Added 1987 Phoenix box and I confirmed Adventure 1987 manual with someone selling on Ebay. No scans of the manual though. I may look through what I'm missing and try to confirm items on the list, even if I can't get scans of them. I'm doing my final move within the next week, so there may be a pause in updating things.