BladeJunker

Well it's a plus-formation of four buttons, so "left is relative, if you hover on the bottom of the diamond then up-left is viable. It really comes down to how your thumb lands in the normal grip posture on a gamepad. I got used to pure horizontal dual button combinations on NES like running jumps in SMB, and up-right the same way on SNES SMW, but the ergonomics of thumb anatomy point up-left objectively speaking where one can hover over two sets of dual button control up=left, or in the center for twin-stick approximation Eg. SNES Smash TV. Try it, you can hold down one button with the lower part of your thumb comfortably while tapping the other button with the end of your thumb. The Nintendo layout requires a more difficult rocking motion to operate both buttons together, can be done but could be so much more comfortable in the other direction. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQRUVXqEEZw This recent episode of Game Sack has some pretty good audio visual demonstrations of why this makes sense. I was skeptical at first but Joe managed to explain the matter quite clearly both verbally and in video form. If you want proof, just hold a gamepad in your hands and look down, your thumbs points towards the center whether you realized it or not, this is also why the Sony Dualshock 3D control feels so much more comfortable to operate compared to the Dreamcast or PSP layout.

Just came by to tell you you're absolutely right about the angle of the buttons in Nintendo's layout design being objectively wrong to the thumb's resting grip posture.😉 There are some games that can use Y&A and X&B as binary pairs for that exact ergonomic reason. Sure one can get used to it but that doesn't mean it makes any layout sense to natural grip ergonomics. I think it must be a Japanese convention Ie. B then A angling up-right which is like why buttons for positive/negative differ on PS1 games per region, Microsoft noticed and corrected it while also giving them the expected color conventions of Green(positive) and Red(negative) like mobile devices wisely adopted before that. Not sure why they added protrusion of the D-pad and buttons on the dogbone like we would fail to reach the controls without that, the SNES gamepad doesn't do that. Also I've never liked how Nintendo just has their D-pads sitting flat and loose, Sega's addition of a central holding pivot point is much more fluent to operate and doesn't squeak.

Put me down for 2, been waiting for something like this.?

I'm kind of a weirdo, it's the only controller of this era I actually like, and I hate "side" buttons lol. I think it's the big area for grip rather than trying to avoid the keypads with your fingers, don't get me started about keypads. ? You're in luck, lots of options now. Edladdin makes really great high quality arcade sticks for all the systems but they are a bit large and the most expensive option. https://www.edladdin.com/Arcade-Controllers_c2.htm I managed to get an EU gamepad, I quite like that one too. It's not as comfortable as a NES gamepad in that I find the thumbstick mandatory because the D-pad edges are so sharp. If they had just rounded the edges it would be more comfortable either way. Got a Seagull78 from AA, I like Genesis pads so that was a no brainer. And going to get that arcade stick Bratwurst is making to have a controller with that arcade feel in a compact package.

Glad you liked it, yeah much like the 16-bit war the 80s had Plimpton talking smack about Atari on a regular basis. Yeah that would be cool, some sort of openworld game, I think the INTV and 5200 are capable of something like that. Oh I'll have to check out that Yar's Strike.

No don't release it, the Jaguar has too much software support already.? It's great when software is locked behind the doors of both obscurity and exclusive collector's hands. It really enriches the world and the Jaguar scene at large.

True, I think about it often, what could have been done to keep Atari as big as it was. ? I think at least companies like Activision managed to port arcade titles better than most but I really think a new joystick wasn't an unreasonable measure even in that market, we weren't buying 5200s so lets expand the platform we're sticking with for a while. But sure I've seen the Plimpton ads and Coleco's monolith DK port that was so good. Was just mocking a YT guy for 2600 bashing, apparently the golden age was the PS2 era now. I appreciate all generations of video games, you can only measure them against the era they were made in. Not a big Tramiel fan myself but he did pay off Atari's massive debt in the aftermath. I liked his low cost approach to computers like the C64 but he made few exceptions to that rule, much to his detriment, hated the Jaguar I hear. However I still think the Amiga line was a bit too expensive for it's own good. Yeah there was a lot of global sales afterwards, I have a few 5200 games that came back from Venezuela when game stock was shipped south after the crash. At the very least that gave the 2600 a strong worldwide following.

I wondered because I thought that would be a bigger factor but then it wasn't. I could see how MTV might distract back then, when they played music and it wasn't saturated with reality shows. Well I think a lot of contemporaries at the time would have liked it to be a fad but it was here to stay as a form of entertainment media. Yeah there it is, the home computer, the factor that could endure the '83 dip and the "homework" factor lol. I think the 5200 success could have rested on the controller if it had been better, more arcade oriented, something the classic wasn't equipped to do, but nope as it was a breaking analog stick with a keypad. But the reality seemed to contradict that, the public wouldn't or couldn't let go of the 2600 for perhaps financial reasons, hence the backwards compatibility backlash. Like even now compare the homebrew scene, it's 2600, 7800, 5200 and even the past sales have this same priority order. Not saying they should have dropped the 2600 like a stone but it could have been reinvigorated with a new CX40 with added fire buttons to keep up with arcade port demands, cheap upgrade. Since that was going to be the established user base they should have made the most of it despite the crash. Truth is I couldn't think of way around the timing problems of release, custom chip making grew a lot after 1977. It's tricky, can't say Atari lacked for 2600 models, but yeah a slim 5200 would have been nice heh. Much later but look at the AmigaCD32, another rebadged hardware that failed to gain a market away from Commodore's computers. That is true about cost of 600XL versus 5200, it's possible the marketing department might have raised prices, they do dumb things like that. Can't disagree that a couple years isn't much support, strange but before most crashes people get drunk with money even though they are actually bleeding, not cheap to make custom game consoles. Atari seemed to have a death grip on their controller designs, in the future they changed the controller to roll with the punches Egs. NES turbo controllers, Sega 6-button controller, the DualShock. Like I wasn't surprised to hear the Jaguar controller comes from another product line since it doesn't match the market they were trying to enter at that time with the Jaguar. ?

A lot people don't have the 5200, just crazy folks. I just got another console but it's spoken for if it works(as-is untested pile and such). See if I can measure the alcove maybe give you one surface, trying to get into print file making myself.

Well what is strange about the controller is that other people made better analog yolks, good ones existed before and after the 5200 release so there was a chance to remake and or fix the controller. It is a bizarre pinout, normally an analog joystick was used in the past to get the directional input down to two pins which a few PC platforms did which affords more face buttons etc. . The 5200 however uses a 15-pin port to make an analog joystick, a couple of face buttons, and one overindulgent keypad that takes the lion's share of the pins because the kids, they love keypads, can't get enough of them.? Then you take the 5200 games, they didn't use analog input since they were mostly arcade games with digital input Eg. Pac Man, so why go with an analog yolk idk? On top of that you can do digital control through an analog pinout, see Gravis Gamepad. 15 pins for that, it was like the whole NA console industry was allergic to multiplexers and shift registers, Nintendo and Sega sure weren't using 9-pin expansion. As far as history people wonder about the vertical controllers of the era but it's never really explained. It has to do with the hand dominance migration issue in arcades, first they were symmetrical in face buttons so left and right hand ambidextrous layout, then they changed majority right handed layouts to a left hand to try and boost quarter intake which stuck as a standard and then face button count grew off that. Then you look at the 80s home controller and they tried to maintain that symmetry in the layout even though it was bad ergonomics for either hand dominance. The console is too damn big, it rivals most 1980s electronics in shelf real estate, right now I have very few shelf alcoves big enough for it. There was this marketing gimmick then of making the console tidy, put the controllers away, resulted in console shells far bigger than hardware inside of them. Also see the Intellivision and Colecovision. It was expensive bitd from what I hear, like a lot more than the 2600 that it couldn't take off. I think the graphics are a large step up but back then it probably didn't seem like enough to justify a new expensive console. What was David Crane saying, a 2600 game then in today's currency is $140 USD, imagine that across the spectrum of gaming expenses. Atari seemed to want to keep the 2600 going forever and it did but that doesn't bold well for advancing technology or new models. They made the next generation but probably released it a year or two late with the '83 crash pending. It was irrational but people really wanted to use their 2600 carts on the 5200 even though historically backwards compatibility is still rare, guessing they assumed Atari was screwing them but it was a non trivial matter to do that, the eventual solutions are just whole 2600 units attached to the main console for power and AV sake. Must have never occurred to them to just attach both machines to one TV or they didn't have the space to.? The present loves to use their "FAIL" stamp on anything remotely imperfect. The game industry failed as a whole and none of the game companies could escape that collapse. ?

I just playing catch up here, didn't realize how many people helped make this controller but thank you all for your efforts. I think it goes a long way to making the 5200 more accessible for more people, actually having people play the 5200 rather than mock it, avoid it, or rip out it's Pokey heh. Was just speculating on a new 5200 controller door flap and thought you could actually print an insert cradle for that alcove that fits this new controller. Imagine it being like those controller recharge stations except side to side rather than front to back. Do they fit inside with the door closed? If not these controllers inserting on top with a cradle would be a nice alternative to those without a door.

Thank you for the tips. I do have an intact one but haven't tried silicone molds yet. Just chatting with a friend about the 3D print option, could be some shortcuts towards a 3D file. Thinking the lid pins won't print well that maybe a mech insert is warranted for the hinge.

Old thread but worth bumping. Just got a 5200 delivered and despite good packing that back door flap shattered like glass because that's what they do. I think the best bet is 3D printing but first somebody has to make a model file which shouldn't be too hard to make. I too think it should be more rugged and textured rather than smooth glass, reminds me of record player covers, which also cracked and shattered if anything remotely heavy fell on them. ? If someone could make a silicone mold of a good one you can pull a good amount of resin copies out for the initial cost of materials and with care it can be used a long time. It's tricky though since detaching the old lid can be hairy for it's age.

That looks very promising. Thank you to everybody working on these conversions, great idea to try and leverage JagDoom for more. ? Forgot how many games used OG Doom engine, Heretic, Hexen, Strife, and Chex Quest 1&2. Not exactly Doom2 but just imagining some of the vast number of mods one could apply to the engine. Amazing how many other 2.5D FPS games have been remade in GZDoom and such. https://batandy.itch.io/gz-pt Lol, was just talking about that demo that refuses to die no matter how much the company tries to squash it.

Good to know, a little closer to my HQ. Was just over at Songbird the other day, sale on Jaguar controller parts right now. https://songbird-productions.com/product/jaguar-controller-parts/