markmiller

Yeah, this was the hardest thing for me to learn about Mahjong, understanding what "free" means. It's not enough that two tiles match. They have to be free, as well. If a tile is completely uncovered, has a piece on its left or its right, but not both, or is isolated by itself, then it's free. "It would be free after a move is made" doesn't count. You can have a scenario where two tiles match, are lined up together on the left end of a line of tiles, and one of them is free, because it doesn't have a tile on its left edge, but the other one is not, because it has the matching tile on its left, and a different tile on its right. You can't remove the matching tiles until both are free. Flower and season tiles are like wildcards (in this game). Even if they don't match exactly with each other, they match in their own categories. However, all types of pieces need to be free before they can be removed. I say "in this game," because I downloaded a version of Mahjong for my Mac, and it also allows flower tiles to match (along with seasons) as a category, but I noticed that not all flower tiles match with each other, for some reason. They do in Shanghai.

I came upon Shanghai on an OHAUG disk, which I think I got from a collection someone posted here. I saw the "Activision" logo, and thought "pirated," but I did a search for info. on here, and found some old discussions on it. The story I was seeing was the author was an ABUCC member who hacked/ported a C-64 version of the game to the Atari XL/XE, and then later shopped it to Activision. The way he tells the story makes it sound like he wrote the game almost from scratch, getting tile images from the ST version. I was impressed with the look. I wondered what he used to implement it, since it looks hi-rez. Is it a redefined character set? (This would make sense for a C-64 port.) I also wondered how he got the different colored tiles for the levels. I kinda wondered if he made creative use of sprites to get the coloration, or if perhaps he was doing some precisely timed DLI stuff to get that.

On the AtariWiki, I'm seeing a version called Turbo Basic 2.0, but no explanation of what it is, or how it's different from 1.5. I've tried it out, and the only difference I see is it has an integrated DOS. Is that the only difference, or are there added commands beyond what's in 1.5?

Okay, thanks. That was it. I just checked "Show moves," and it said there are no moves left.

I'm new to the game. I didn't think I'd like it, but I guess I do. I was playing it in solitaire mode for an hour or two yesterday. However, now I'm stuck. According to the instructions, the game will end either when all the tiles have been removed, or when there are no more moves to make. I'm down to 44 tiles (so, I expected it to get easier), but I can't find any more moves to make. The game isn't ending. I'm wondering if the game isn't detecting that no more tiles can be removed, or if there's a move I'm missing. Are there any good Mahjong players in the house? I'm not asking for anyone to point out a move. Though, maybe a hint would be welcome. Thanks.

I heard about this through the Antic podcast (Antic - Atari Dreams). Interesting. How come I hadn't heard of Chip-8 before this? I got interested, because I've worked on what I call a "Parr VM" for the Atari 8-bit, in Turbo Basic (after Terence Parr's demo of a simple VM: How to Build a Virtual Machine). I got that working, and I've been working on an assembler for it (again in TB). I've really just been using this as a learning exercise, since I'm new to these concepts. I like Weisbecker's philosophy (from his Byte article: An Easy Programming System): Looking at one of the comments from Parr's presentation, it seems that Don Knuth had a similar idea, with "The Art of Computer Programming"? I've looked this up. The descriptions have said that Knuth discussed algorithms in his own machine language, but haven't said anything about source code for a VM. Maybe that's assumed? Anyway, the commenter said that this method is a lost art in software engineering. Sounds right, since I haven't seen it used much. The most famous example of it being used that I've seen is the ZIL VM/language for Infocom games.

@MrFish - Re. basicParser, I had the thought that this is also probably why you're able to squeeze in more lines of code, since I'm guessing it doesn't transfer comments to the tokenized file (because what would be the point of that?). I'm a little curious what value was seen in creating this, though, because why not use fastbasic, which is a compiled language, if you're going to take the step of writing code outside of an interpreter? However, as I recall, fastbasic doesn't have preprocessor directives. So, most of the code is explicitly compiled into the executable. BTW, thanks for the reference to Serious Computerist. The resources there are really nicely presented.

That's impressive. My current project is more than 1,000 lines. I'm working on a simple assembler and VM, modeling it in Basic, since I'm a beginner at this stuff . At a couple points, I ran out of variable table and memory space. I don't remember how many lines I got up to (maybe 1,600, including comments). I've been scaling my code back some, reducing the number of variables, reducing comments to "just essentials," reducing my use of labels (except for procedure calls. I'm finding that using line numbers for branches takes up less memory, though). However, I really like using longer, descriptive variable names. basicParser looks interesting, especially the feature that puts in parameters and local variables for procedures. I guess it expands the use of the stack to pull that off? Even though it doesn't help with the number of variables in the name table, I imagine its reduction of variable names to single characters, or zero characters, helps in conserving memory. I've thought about switching to working in a more modern environment, possibly using a different language, and compiling to run on the 8-bit, but I really like the interactive environment for debugging! I'll put up with a lot to stay in that. Though, I use TextEdit sometimes to "think out" my code before I enter it in Basic.

Some nice looking software sprites you had there. I had the thought looking at the first video that it would look better if the animation routine ran as a VBI. That way, you wouldn't be able to see it redraw. I don't imagine it would've been good practice for the extension to use the same technique, because that would limit the use of the VBI vector for programmers to use. Probably would've been better to leave the blitter feature out of the language, and let ML programmers deal with it.

The extension comes with some demo programs. The ones demonstrating the blitter commands seemed to partly work. I'm not sure if it was the blitter routines in the extension that were buggy, or if the demos just weren't written well. You're right that using the extension means you can't use the compiler, since it doesn't know about the commands the extension adds. However, I've had limited use for the compiler, since it's rather buggy. It works for short, simple programs, but for large programs, it has a bunch of problems that might be possible to get around, but it limits the size of what you can compile. The interpreter works really well, though. I think I've only found one bug in it.

Just to disambiguate, I am talking about an extension that was made to TBXL, which is called TUREX.COM on disk. I read about it on the AtariWiki, in the page on Turbo Basic. This is not the "expanded Turbo Basic documentation" you're referring to. That's talking about a newer edition of the documentation for Turbo Basic XL itself that has expanded explanations of TBXL's command set. For what I'm talking about, see: Turbo Basic XL where it describes TUREX.COM under the Background heading. It notes: The way it works is you boot up Turbo Basic 1.5 (that's what I've tested it on, anyway), and then use its BLOAD or BRUN command to dynamically load TUREX.COM into it. It's like a hot patch. It instantly adds more commands to the language, but only in RAM. It does not permanently change your copy of TBXL. Each time you want to use the extension, you have to go through the same procedure (load TBXL, BLOAD TUREX.COM). While the extension is active, it also invalidates/turns off the RAMdisk on the 130XE. This is discussed in the documentation. Though, it also adds commands for storing/accessing data to/from the extended RAM the RAMdisk once occupied. The documentation I posted describes this extension to the language, as translated from the original German documentation that's on the extension disk. You can also get a copy of the extension disk on the AtariWiki page, which contains TUREX.COM. Re. how I used Google Translate, it took some work, because as I said, the documentation only existed on the extension disk. I only use an Atari in emulation these days. Since I use a Mac, I'm using Atari800MacX. It has a feature where you can highlight text that's on the emulated Atari screen, and copy/paste it into another app as plain text. Google Translate has a limit on how much text it will accept at once. Fortunately, I didn't hit that limit, simply because of the 40x24 screen size on the Atari. The way I captured the text was by doing a simple Copy operation in DOS from D: to E:, and using Ctrl-1 to pause the screen, capturing the text in sections using the emulator, and copy/pasting it into Google Translate. I took the translated sections, and copy/pasted into TextEdit (a Mac app.), where I saved it to an RTF file. Google Translate did a pretty good job, but I thought some of the word usage was confusing. So, I reworded it in some places, if I thought it would clarify. I did the translation really for myself, because I thought maybe the extension would have some features I could use. (So far, I've only been tempted by commands like ROUND, INC, and DEC). Like with some of the features in TBXL, the extension seemed aimed at video game developers. The extension emphasizes access to graphics functions on the Atari.

I looked around, and haven't seen this done already. The original documentation is in German. I ran it through Google Translate, cleaned it up some, and wrote it up as a RTF. Some interesting stuff. Haven't found a use for it yet. Extended TurboBasic documentation (Turex.com) (English translation).rtf

Okay, maybe Cynthia is the one he's mentioned, then (I said Brenda Laurel), because it was in connection with Logo. As I thought more about what I said, I actually can't think of an instance where he's talked much about the companies he worked for, other than Xerox. He's said a little about working at Apple, saying he had input on the design of the Finder UI for the Macintosh. He's talked about Steve Jobs a bit. He's said a little about working at Disney in the late 1990s. He also worked for HP for a bit, but he hasn't said a thing about that. Most of what he's talked about while he was at Apple, for example, was the educational work he did at the Open Charter School in Los Angeles. His involvement with that school has long since ended, not because he left Apple, but because staffing at the school changed, and there was an incompatibility between his educational goals and theirs. Interestingly, in answer to a question about the Amiga recently, he said more about Atari than I've ever heard from him. He also said a few things about Commodore: https://www.quora.com/What-does-Alan-Kay-think-about-the-Commodore-Amiga-1985-as-a-multimedia-computer-or-an-appealing-tool-for-artists-How-does-it-compare-with-Alto-or-Star-or-with-Sierra-machine-Atari-was-working-on-as-you-were-Chief/answer/Alan-Kay-11

When you put it like that, I have to sheepishly say if it was hacking, it was the most basic. I didn't have to open up my computer, wire anything up, or do any clever programming. The only clever thing I did was reason through it. My Pascal class was assigned to use the Cyber system, I think because we had so many students, about 300. The computer lab for it had maybe 30-50 screen terminals (and some teletypes). It was a challenge to get a seat sometimes. It was possible to dial into the Cyber, and it had a line editor that you could use with a dumb terminal, which everyone hated. We all wanted to use FSE. The problem I had was FSE depended on using a terminal with function keys to carry out the editor commands. The Atari obviously didn't have that (the Start, Select, Option keys don't count ). I asked whether there was anything for the Atari that would help with that, and I got a chuckle, "No." The school had an IT department that could help students with computer issues, but they only supported Macs and PCs. They had a terminal program they gave out called Kermit for those computers that they said worked with FSE. I understood how terminal programs worked, translating keystrokes into codes sent over the phone line. One day, I thought it through, "Kermit must be sending special key codes to FSE when function keys are pressed. I wonder if I could get the Atari to generate those key codes." So, I got on my Atari, fired up VT10Squared, then fired up FSE on a throw-away file, and just started trying key combinations, like a Control-key combination, hitting Escape and another key, hitting Escape, then pressing a Control-key combination. I started seeing things happen. Whenever it did, I wrote it down, and kept going. That was really it. I think there was one editor function I wasn't able to reproduce, but that was fine. I was elated. I could work on my Pascal assignments from my dorm room, on my Atari, using a nice full-screen editor! After my Pascal class, we were given Unix accounts, which we could use to access the internet... Come to think of it, I either got VT10Squared through my roommate's account (he had a Unix account), or I got it off a BBS. Hmm... Anyway, I definitely downloaded some Atari software off the internet while I was in school, since I'd found out about the Atari Archive at the University of Michigan (which is still around, BTW). After getting my Unix account, I was able to use e-mail, read news, etc., and work on my CS assignments using vi, on my Atari. The one time I found that this was really impractical was when I took a course on computer architecture, because we were working in assembly language. I found working with a modem terminal was way too slow (I forget if I was using a 1200 or 2400 baud modem), because of the screen redraws for scrolling through my code. So, I took to firing up AtariWriter Plus to use as my text editor. I wrote my assembly code on that, uploaded my first draft to my Unix account, and then used vi for debugging. I also used AWP for writing my school papers. I got an Atari Mega STe in 1992, and took that to school, thereafter. I used ANSITerm for Unix/internet access, and WordUp for my word processor. That was nicer for schoolwork.

I've listened to a lot of his talks, and yeah, he's said extremely little about his time at Atari. Maybe the best source for getting more info. on that would be to read Howard Rheingold's document "Tools For Thought". Here are a couple chapters that weave in what was done while Alan Kay was at Atari. He's mentioned Brenda Laurel a couple times: The Birth of the Fantasy Amplifier Brenda and the Future Squad I'm remembering now I heard him give the same line that he was Chief Scientist at Atari when he testified at a House committee hearing that Al Gore chaired, back in 1982, but that was it. Everything else he said during the session had to do with some technology in education conference he attended (I think in Paris), and his own thoughts on how technology should be used in education. This gives me the impression that he isn't that interested in talking about that experience. I think, like you said, in that clip you linked to, he revealed the real motivation he had for joining Atari was to try to get Logo on the platform, perhaps with some better educational materials than what was released with Logo on other platforms(?) Well, there were a couple Atari versions of Logo released. So, I guess that part succeeded. In retrospect, he's said that the effort to get Logo into the schools was a failure, because the point was to use it as a tool for a kind of math instruction. Instead, the school system adopted it just as a means for teaching students programming. The idea of using it to teach math largely got lost.