bfollowell
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Posts posted by bfollowell
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11 minutes ago, newTIboyRob said:
Maybe we should call it a different term like "enhancement" or "addition" or something, as that term "upgrade" kind of puts us in gray territory?
I'm fine with calling it anything but stock if it entailed purchasing additional hardware of any sort to make use of it. Anything that could be used straight out of the box after the original purchase would be stock.
From what @FifthPlayer has said though, it definitely sounds like upgrading to 80 columns with the Apple II series was much easier, and cheaper, than with the A8 or the C64.
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2 hours ago, FifthPlayer said:
I only agree with this statement to a point. Upgrading the Apple II for 80 columns was easy, and was very common. Apple built in 80 column support, starting with the IIe. Commodore also supported built-in 80 column on the C128, although that machine came along much later and wasn't nearly as successful as the C64.
Yes, but those were and are upgrades. Those didn't come in most stock Apple IIs, hence my statement that these didn't come with stock configurations. Were they easy to upgrade? Yes. They still required upgrades and more money to get 80 columns. I did forget about the C128 though. Personally, I've never seen one in real life. From what I've read they sold in very small quantities, but you're right, they did have built-in 80 columns. I still stand by my statement that most 8-bit computers weren't capable of 80 columns in their stock configurations. For the sake of my post, that means without upgrades since I think most of us would agree that that's what stock means.
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3 hours ago, bfollowell said:
As to your question about adding the XEP80 handlers or boot disks to your system, if you're asking what I think you're asking, then no, this wouldn't help at all. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but you do not have an XEP80, correct? If not then adding these files or disks would not help because you do not have the necessary hardware to make use of them. If I'm mistaken and you do have an XEP80 and I missed it, then I'm sorry, but I really don't know much about them other than what I've read, but I'm certain there are users on here that can help you get it going.
I looked back and I think I may have missed that you were asking about the XEP80 devices and the disks. If that's the case, then yes, those together with what you have would help you get what you want. From all I've heard, the XEP80 is far from the best device to do this, but I know some like it, and it has enjoyed something of a resurgence lately since being reproduced and also reengineered using a Raspberry Pi Pico.
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There is really nothing strange or deficient about any of the stock Atari 8-bit computers not supporting 80 columns. Almost no 8-bit computers of the day, certainly none of what I think of as the big 3 home computers, Atari, Commodore, and Apple II supported 80 column displays in their stock configurations. I think the TRS-80 Model I had a 64-character display and the Model III had an 80 column display, but I never saw those anywhere outside of school computer labs.
As for your questions about the 800XL, there is essentially no difference between a 600XL upgraded to 64Kb and an 800XL with stock 64KB. I would think that the software 80-column display would be extremely rough and fuzzy on composite as well, though certainly much, much better than RF. Keep in mind that each character is only 3 pixels wide with a single pixel space in-between characters. That doesn't leave a lot for character definition. I have seen some of these working very well on a Sophia or VBXE display, but those are modern display upgrades that you would need to purchase and I know you wish to stay as stock as possible. Also, if you had a VBXE, there would be no need to use software 80-columns as it supports 64 and 80 columns in hardware.
As to your question about adding the XEP800 handlers or boot disks to your system, if you're asking what I think you're asking, then no, this wouldn't help at all. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but you do not have an XEP80, correct? If not then adding these files or disks would not help because you do not have the necessary hardware to make use of them. If I'm mistaken and you do have an XEP80 and I missed it, then I'm sorry, but I really don't know much about them other than what I've read, but I'm certain there are users on here that can help you get it going. If you don't then this is much like asking if installing the latest NVidia drivers on your PC would help you get 3D graphics if you don't have an NVidia card. Those XEP80 files and disks you mentioned are drivers or special applications written to work with the XEP80 device specifically and are of no use whatsoever to anyone without one.
As for your 600XL, you have the normal configuration that most everyone would have used back in the day. A more or less stock XL computer with a 40 character display and a disk drive. Anything that you want beyond that is going to require you to add some upgrades to your computer, just like we would've had to do way back then, because most 8-bit computers of the day weren't capable of these displays without upgrades. Heck, a 64Kb 800XL with a disk drive, a Gemini 10X printer, displaying on an old RCA portable TV through RF got me through college, many term papers, and numerous resumes, including the one that helped me get the job that I have 31 years later.
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5 hours ago, newTIboyRob said:
I am looking for a relatively easy to use 80 column word processor for my 600 XL with 64K ram expansion. This has proven a hard find thus far. I know that Atariwriter Plus has 80 column print preview mode, but I don't believe it had 80 column edit mode. Last Word seems very good but more elaborate... a bit over my head and not for my more basic needs. I have Paperclip 3 for the C64, so I was trying for a different one for the Atari. So from some more reading:
Atariwriter 80 requires 2 key things: the XEP80 plug in display module connecting one of the joystick ports to a composite monitor. I think you already see the other big issue: I am on a 600 xl, and am using typical RF connection out to a smallish TV, and no composite monitor.
From what I understand, ST Writer wouldn't be the one for me either here.
I did see Textpro, but there are quite a few versions of that, and I don't know which version, if any, or all, use 80 column... not to mention I couldn't find a video of anyone using it to see how it operates. Perhaps someone who has used that can comment here and talk a little about it?
So is this my last hope, or have I simply run out of options here for a more basic 80 column word processor for an upgraded 600 XL? Maybe there is/are others I have missed?
Well, ST Writer definitely isn't for you, mainly because it isn't a program for Atari 8-bits. It's an Atari ST program.
I know you were finally convinced to upgrade from 16K and cartridge only software, but in the past you've mentioned that you can't afford to spend a lot and you've been very reluctant to perform any upgrades. That's going to be a problem. For good, readable 80-column display on an 8-bit, you're going to need to upgrade because it just isn't possible on a standard 8-bit. There were software 80-column solutions and, while some of those look decent on modern displays using modern video upgrades, most were barely readable on anything less, especially through an RF connection. On top of that, I don't recall many of those software solutions being compatible with existing software.
Hopefully, someone else will recall something that I don't, but much like your original requests over the past couple of months, I believe you're going to have to come to the realization that you're asking far too much from your humble, mostly stock hardware. While you've added an Sdrive-Max, remember, that's just an add-on, not an upgrade. The only upgrade you've done is going from 16Kb to 64Kb of memory, and it's going too take a lot more than that to do what're you're wanting to do.
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Thank you to everyone for all the information and advice. At this point, I think I'm going to take most everyone's advice and play and learn via emulation, then decide later if I want to pickup real hardware, and which model if I do.
Maybe, if we're lucky, the bottom will drop out of the retro market and we'll be able to pickup machines for a song again! Well, I guess that would be lucky for collectors and enthusiasts, but not so much for those trying to sell old machines.
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8 minutes ago, remowilliams said:
Hmm, as a drop in board (like the Ultimate64) for an XL that definitely has my interest...
Well, this isn't a drop-in board. This is the motherboard for a whole new 800XL remake product, including case, keyboard, etc. It will be a complete product. This was just an update showing development progress showing the motherboard of this new product. The motherboard itself isn't a product that will be available, at least from what we've been led to understand.
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This is coming from an extreme Amiga newbie. I've been and Atari fanatic for over 40 years, basically, I know nothing of the Amiga other than the fierce rivalry that existed between ST and Amiga users back in the day, which seemed to be a continuation of the similar rivalry between Atari 8-bit users and C64 users even further back. However, since I have learned of the development of the Amiga, and learned that it is the spiritual successor of our beloved Atari 8-bits. I've toyed with the idea of picking up an Amiga. I may wind up just playing with it through emulation, but if I were to decide to pick one up, which would be the best to go for? I'm looking for one of the machines that would have been more popular back in the day, so I'm assuming it would be one of the more budget-minded machines, so I'm considering the Amiga 500, 500+, 600, and 1200 and am looking for opinions.
I'd also be interest in learning of some of the better online resources for information, files, disk images, etc. Being an Atari fan, I know where to find most of what I want for the Atari 8 and 16-bit computers, but I'm clueless when it comes to the Amigas
Thanks in advance for any information and advice.
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I'll have to read back through this thread to see if it has been mentioned, but I wonder if this is going to have a nicer mechanical keyboard or a membrane keyboard?
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A quick YouTube search pulled these back. The first video is just the Atari presentation and obviously is pretty short, so isn't what you were referring to. The next two are 1985 Winter CES parts 1 and 2. They're each about thirty minutes long. I could find no mention of a part 3.
Thanks for mentioning them or I'd have never looked into them. I want to go watch them myself now!
Atari ST Launch & First Public Demo - Winter CES 1985
1985 Winter Consumer Electronics Show, part 1!
1985 Winter Consumer Electronics Show, part 2!
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On 9/23/2023 at 4:26 PM, watcherxp said:
I couldn't find it online earlier but, as of this morning, October 17, these show for order on the Costco website for $79.99
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58 minutes ago, satoayanami said:
Yes, thanks, i noticed about that after posting my reply.
It was a cool, simple little project. I'm referring to the building, of course, not the design work! I wish I had the skills, and the time, to design things like this.
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3 hours ago, satoayanami said:
It would be wonderful if you share your project, many people don´t like difficulties and buy a made cartridge by a little manufacturer, like the ATARIMAX, many other people like me, love the process of building something; i don't own the habbilities for designing and programmig a project like this, but i can build one with my ow hands. So, i'm excited about your reply to @popmilo; and i'll be waiting patiently, thank you in advance.
Read through the whole thread. He has already shared the project and all pertinent files on Github. I built ten of them a month or so ago and sold off all but the one I was keeping for myself.
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Well, this one has the area code, so there would only be one person or family that would have to change, but still...
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I ordered both of the seller's remaining two sets. I'd say he will print more and restock.
He also has a set of replacement plungers that he sells. I'll put the link below if anyone is interested in giving t hem a try. In case the links go dead, the seller's ebay username is gkraemer.
I'll write back with a review of the collars once I receive them, install them, and have time to give them a good test.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/155822218647
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3 hours ago, bfollowell said:
Someone is selling Hi-Tek/Stackpole repair kits on eBay. They consist of 3D printed parts, but I'm having trouble understanding how they work or what they do. I'm assuming they're supposed to correct the issue of what I call the key switch sleeve splitting at the corners, but the part looks like it's supposed to attach to the underside of the keycap, so I'm still not seeing how it helps.
If I understand the keycap and the key switch sleeve, if I remember correctly, the stem of the keycap slides inside the key switch sleeve. There is a picture on the page of the bottom of a keycap, but I'm having trouble seeing where this 3D printed part goes. It doesn't help that I haven't done a lot of keyboard repairs in general, or that these are my first two 800s in over 35 years.
Are any of you guys able to better tell what how these work or what I'm missing?
Thanks.
OK, it's all clear now. These are thin collars that you glue around the top of the plungers, what I was referring to as the key switch sleeve. They're thin enough to still allow the plunger to be fully depressed, while holding the top part of the plunger together and giving it extra support in case it has already split, or to keep it from splitting.
I'm considering ordering two sets, because my newly purchased 800s both have many, if not all of the plungers on the Hi-Tek keyboards exhibiting this problem.
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Someone is selling Hi-Tek/Stackpole repair kits on eBay. They consist of 3D printed parts, but I'm having trouble understanding how they work or what they do. I'm assuming they're supposed to correct the issue of what I call the key switch sleeve splitting at the corners, but the part looks like it's supposed to attach to the underside of the keycap, so I'm still not seeing how it helps.
If I understand the keycap and the key switch sleeve, if I remember correctly, the stem of the keycap slides inside the key switch sleeve. There is a picture on the page of the bottom of a keycap, but I'm having trouble seeing where this 3D printed part goes. It doesn't help that I haven't done a lot of keyboard repairs in general, or that these are my first two 800s in over 35 years.
Are any of you guys able to better tell what how these work or what I'm missing?
Thanks.
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I still haven't cracked open the cases yet, but I pulled some key caps off and the switch sleeves are white, so it appears they both have Hi-tek keyboards. I saw some evidence of cracking and splitting on pretty much every sleeve I looked at, so these babies are definitely going to need some work.
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23 minutes ago, kheller2 said:
Yes, any RAM upgrade beyond 16(32?)k requires soldering.
I picked up one of Jurgen's 48/52Kb cards. I haven't installed it in my 400 yet, but I was thinking it was just a plug-in install? From your comment I'm assuming that's not the case?
I really need to pull that thing out and get it installed. I guess that'll be a good winter project.
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28 minutes ago, chevymad said:
I've always ordered direct from Lotharek. Doesn't seem to take all that long.
I've ordered from him until COVID started and shipping times and prices got insane. Since then I've ordered from VCC or TBA as I could. I'd probably have no issues ordering straight from Lotharek again now though. Marlin has had things in stock recently because I ordered a U1MB, a UAV, and a SIDE3 from him a month or two ago. He runs through stock, gets low, orders another big batch, restocks. It's just his normal cycle. If he's out of stock of something I want, or there's something new, such as these new devices, I usually email him and put a bug in his ear to restock or look at whatever device I'm interested in. I've never had much trouble unless I wanted something really obscure or wanted it faster than waiting on him to put together a big order. He's very friendly and accommodating.
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9 minutes ago, Iguana Bob said:
Where does one buy said gizmos in the States now that VCC has shut?
Marlin sells some of them at The Brewing Academy. He appears to be out of stock of most of Lotharek's devices now, and I don't believe he's stocked any of these newer devices yet, but you could ask him. TAB & VCC are the only ones that I'm aware of that have ever stocked any of Lotharek's items in the U.S.
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Thanks @Beeblebrox! I found an informative thread on the 800 keyboards. It wasn't quite as extensive as the XL variants thread, but there was a lot of good information. I did pop a key cap off of each machine and, if I remember correctly, both machines had those square slot/post mounts, so it looks like I have the mechanical keyboards. I guess that narrows it down to either a Stackpole or a Hitek. Next week is a short week since I covered this weekend. I'll have to look into them a little more when I'm off Thursday through Sunday. Heck, for all I know, the one keyboard may have just been unplugged at some point in the past and just never plugged back in, though there is definitely something going on with that keyboard other than being unplugged or bad 4051s. You can tell that by looking at the C, N, and . keys. See how they're sunken in so low compared to the others? The may have broken switches or may just be missing the return springs. I believe there should be some sort of springs under there.
I'll definitely look in at your blogs. I always follow your upgrade/repair posts. I'm still amazed at how far your troubleshooting/repair skills have come in such a short time. It seems like only yesterday you were the one on here asking for troubleshooting advice on this or that machine. Now, you're one of the main users giving advice to others thanks to your hard-earned experience.
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5 hours ago, Beeblebrox said:
Is the keyboard a mitsumi, stackpole. Or Hi-tek?
You know, I really have no idea yet. One, I've not opened either case other than to pull the ventilated top portion off to look at the OS/RAM cards. Two, I'm really not at all familiar with the 800 keyboard variants like I am with those for the XL line. Is there a similar 800 keyboard variant thread like the one for the XL keyboard variants? I need to read up on them if there is.
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35 minutes ago, _The Doctor__ said:
A good clean and reseat session normally sort most 800 issues, you should have left them running for a good 24 hours if they were working. After the clean and reseat, if it fires up and works let it keep running
Probably will be fine.
The one, yes, I'm sure. The one with the keyboard issues is definitely going to be more work. It seems fine otherwise though.
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would I need Basic XL or Basic XE here?
in Atari 8-Bit Computers
Posted
Ok, Atari BASIC is fully supported in Altirra BASIC, which is fully supported in BASIC XL, which is fully supported in BASIC XE. So, for personal use, without the intention to distribute, and not wanting to compile, it sounds like BASIC XE would be the most advanced BASIC on the ATARI 8-bits. Or at least a toss-up between BASIC XE and Turbo BASIC XL.
Also, I had to idea that Turbo BASIC XL was later adapted and became GFA BASIC for the ATARI ST line. Very interesting.