[Altirra and certain roms]

Strip poker needs BASIC enabled/installed. And it might need to be Atari BASIC - not sure if it works with Altirra BASIC.

[1050E - What am I doing wrong?]

Can the drive format an enhanced density disk with the original stock configuration... though you saying it doesnt work in 2 drives makes that unlikely to be a failure.

 

PAL or NTSC Atari?

 

Does the format fail instantly, or does the drive go through the motions of stepping through all the tracks before failing? If so, is the disk actually erased in the process?

 

I actually have one of these but not have not tested it yet. The developer only tested it on PAL Atari's so there's a chance it will have issues on NTSC atari's - especially with it's ultraspeed sio.

 

The designer was reallty trying to push the speed limits and I think he achieved something like 72Kbps, which is quite a bit higher than the more common 52Kbps found in Happy, US Doubler ETC - it will likely require removal of filter caps in both the Atari and 1050 to work reliably. But this should not matter for 1x SIO in DOS 2.5, unless you are using a replacement OS that provided Ultraspeed SIO.

 

I'm not sure there is any documentation. The developer ("Candle") got it working then basically handed it over to Lotharek to produce. There is an old thread where he detailed some of his development work then it went a long while before it became available from Lotharek.

 

It might be a while for me to find mine and test too.

[Graphic glitches Atari 600XL+576KB expansion]

17 hours ago, Sinjinhawke said:

Atari Blast also works on my 64K 600xl with SIDE3 cart.

Also works with the Ultimate Cart, which can emulate a 8Mb (aka 1MB) AtariMax cart (even on a 16K 600XL)

[Graphic glitches Atari 600XL+576KB expansion]

1 hour ago, scelbi8h said:

It is solved!

Cool beans! Now this has me more curious if this might help "tame" my own aforementioned misbehaving ANTIC.

[Graphic glitches Atari 600XL+576KB expansion]

This looks like a clock/timing issue. I have one ANTIC chip that exhibits this, and it was resolved by swapping in a different ANTIC chip. I haven't dug further yet, but I think others have resolved similar problems by replacing/upgrading the 74LS08 buffer chip for a "stronger" clock out of the CPU to help a marginal ANTIC. "Better/faster" versions being 74LSHC08 or 74LSF08 I think.

[While working on a couple Atari 1050 floppy drives found a weird upgrade board... What is it?]

On 2/2/2022 at 12:25 PM, Verault said:

Since this is the only readable part of the eprom in ascii I take it still not enough info?

This is the duplicator 2.31 ROM - there is a later 3.0 ROM on this site:

http://realdos.8bit.ca/1050 Duplicator.html

 

The file "DTIREV5.EPM" is v3.00 with Atari binary load headers... I exported that segment for the raw 8KB BIN, you can burn this to your EPROM to "upgrade" your drive. I've attached a "clean" .BIN file here. I think I recall something about a v3.1 as well -- I'll have to search around.

 

There's enough info on that site to easily build a replica of this board, which E474 and I are now looking into. Nice thing about this upgrade is the creator has actually declared it public domain, source available and everything.

1050 duplicator 3.0 22C4FAFC.bin

[Happy Rev7 upgrade?]

17 hours ago, Mclaneinc said:

Our resident Mr Disk Drive aka Nezgar will know

Hehehe.... I started replying eaerlier then backed out, then realized I had to think about it more...

 

Happy "Software" revision 7.0 or 7.1 will work with the 810 rev 7 hardware, as well as the happy 1050 hardware rev 1 & rev 2 ROM.

 

Things are more complicated with earlier revisions of happy software/hardware...

 

There are software versions up to 5.3 I think that are only for earlier happy 810 hardware (I know of 4.0, 5.2, 5.3)  .. Around these versions was an autospeed mod that could slow down the RPM to write longer tracks automatically, which was removed in later updates to allow the fast/slow (meaning track buffered/unbuffered) switch.

There was a softwareversion 6.6 that was ONLY for the happy 1050 before rev 7 software was out

Then things were unified with 7.x - you could even use the happy backup to copy protected disks using an 810 to read, and a 1050 to write, or vice versa at that point.

[Atari 810 not recognised]

Congrats @slaanesh - good to know another of those beasts is revived. 810's can be touchy, and you got one of the more obscure possible faults.

 

Most 810's are very loud when stepping tracks - I found this can be significantly reduced if you lubricate the rails the head assembly slides along with some light oil - 4-in-1 or sewing machine oil. Apply along the rails using a qtip dabbed in the stuff, to minimize chance of dripping any.

[Anyone ever seen this on an 810 Sideboard?]

5 minutes ago, joeventura said:

Percom card was destroyed (all pins broken off when it came lose and bounced around for 4 or 5 house moves) then tried to repair it and trashed it

Could you post a picture of it? I wonder "how bad" ... I wonder if there's any remote chance of repair ie with replacement header pins / jumper wires etc... also as asked earlier was the 1771 controller chip on it salvageable?

[Anyone ever seen this on an 810 Sideboard?]

  Heh... another gem in the September 1981 Eugene Oregon ACE newsletter on Page 11: https://archive.org/details/AtariComputerEnthusiastsNewslettersVolume1/page/n97/mode/2up?q=format&view=theater

 

" The new disk drive is now available. This drive differs, because it contains a new data separator board and comes with the Master Diskette II Package. The Master Dikette II package contains a new Dos 2.0S manual that is very good. Contrary to popular belief, the new drive does not contain a Fast Format ROM (C Chip). These chips may eventually be obtained from ATARI at no charge; according to sources.

...

Sources at ATARI are quoted as saying, "Anyone who wishes to duplicate the C ROM will not be harassed by ATARI." Up to two weeks ago this was not the case, and violators were threatened by ATARI!"

 

? Some interesting times there.... "Don't you dare update the crappy firmware in our drives without paying us..."

[Happy 810 resources]

[deleted] - post was intended for a different thread...

[Anyone ever seen this on an 810 Sideboard?]

1 hour ago, joeventura said:

2716rom here it is dumped as a 2716

 

Nailed it.... This dump has a CRC32 checksum of 80724CDE, which matches the early user-group documented "Chicago layout" patch that I re-created!

 

References:

• https://atariage.com/forums/topic/279363-the-atari-810-revision-b-rom-has-finally-been-found-dumped/?do=findComment&comment=4113840 - My previous post about references to the "Chicago Format" in old ACE newsletters from 1980-81 that describe how to patch Atari's 810 Rev B ROM with the faster sector interleave.
• https://atariage.com/forums/topic/279363-the-atari-810-revision-b-rom-has-finally-been-found-dumped/?do=findComment&comment=4114492 - This post contains my hand patched Rev B ROM code according to the above ACE newsletter articles, which also resulted in the same CRC32 checksum of 80724CDE as joeventura's.
• https://www.atariarchives.org/creativeatari/Atari_DOS.php This page is a transcription of an article from "Creative Atari" that describes the origin of 810 "Fast Format Chips" - "A group of users in Chicago modified the B layout to what is called the Chicago layout. This layout is 30% quicker than the B format and indeed is 10% quicker than Atari's own C layout."
• https://archive.org/details/AtariComputerEnthusiastsNewslettersVolume1/page/n111/mode/2up?q=810 - Page 112 of 216 in this archive.org PDF contains the original article from October 1981 by Larry Hitz of the Chicago Atari User's Group "CONVERT YOUR 810 DISK DRIVE FOR FAST FORMATTING" describing the specific patches to the Rev B ROM. Since this was a from a Eugene Oregon ACE newsletter, the original article would have been published in Chicago even earlier. Installation instructions I'll expand on below.
• The above article also describes the small wiring modification needed in order to use a 2716 EPROM, as seen in @joeventura's drive.
• Atari didn't start offering ROM revision C or data separator boards in new drives or as upgrades until October 1981: https://www.atarimagazines.com/v1n4/upgradesavailable.html

As per the articles installation instructions:

• On the foil side of the socket of A102, cut the foil trace connected to pins 18, 20, 21 as close to the pin as possible, then make the following connections:
• Connect pin 18 to ground
• Connect pin 21 to +5 VDC
• Connect pin 20 to pin 2 of Z103 (the D4069 inverter chip)

@joeventura - can you take a picture of the back of your side board to confirm the traces are cut as per above?
The last step is different than what we see pictured in your drive, I'm guessing because that particular pin on the MC14011B is connected via a trace to pin 2 of Z103, which would be functionally the same.

 

Here is another article by the same author Larry Hits from Oct 81 (Page 13) that recommends contacting PERCOM for a data separator board for $29.95. It also discusses the super sensitive RPM control pot on the original 810 power/analog board. (This was improved in the later replacement separate power+analog boards). On page 14, describes a 1-byte correction to the original ROM patch article, which I also incorporated into my resulting binary that matches joeventura's dump:

https://archive.org/details/AtariComputerEnthusiastsNewslettersVolume1/page/n127/mode/2up?q=810

[Can you identify this cable? Centronics to 15 pin?]

Best electronics lists the cable as Atari 850 Interface Printer cable  CB101279  $15.00

https://best-electronics-ca.com/8-bit_.htm

 

According to the Atari 8-bit FAQ the OEM part # is CX86

 - Sold separately: CX86 Printer Cable, CA015900-02 (included with 825)
     (DA-15P to 20-pin dual Edge-on)

Pinouts of both ends of the cable are also in the FAQ. Even my own cable was home-made back in the 80's using the pinout information...

[Can you identify this cable? Centronics to 15 pin?]

2 hours ago, Beeblebrox said:

(Thanks for the heads up re MIO as never heard of that either).

When I say MIO, I specifically meant the Multi I/O PBI/ECI peripheral from ICD - its parallel port used the same pinout as the 850 and PRC, for example:

https://atariage.com/forums/topic/76383-icd-multi-io/?do=findComment&comment=934356

 

[Anyone ever seen this on an 810 Sideboard?]

30 minutes ago, joeventura said:

Percom (Now destroyed) data separator board.

Another thought - were you able to salvage the 1771 controller chip from the damaged data separator board? If so you could plonk it into that empty socket on the sideboard for a "mostly" functional drive. Without the data separator reads may be less reliable, but maybe better than a completely dead drive.

[Anyone ever seen this on an 810 Sideboard?]

Interesting... it's a 2716 (2KB), so it's not an archiver/CHIP - which requires a 2732 (4KB).

 

The fact you say it had a percom data separator suggests this mod was done prior to the availability of the "grass valley" upgrades from Atari, so the owner at the time may have also opted for a ROM upgrade to get a faster sector interleave, either a copy of Atari's official "ROM C" or the user group generated patch that was documented prior to Atari's becoming available, and with an interleave that was a little faster that Atari's too. There were some commercial ads for a replacement "fast chip" ROM for the 810, which probably used the user group generated patches.

 

I'll dig up references for these later.

 

The jumper wire from the 2716 would be to provide inverted chip select compared to the original mask ROM - a common requirement when switching between mask ROM or EPROM.

 

A dump of this ROM would tell a lot to confirm my theories. If you have the means, it can be dumped as a 2732, which should repeat the same 2KB twice. If not, I'd very much like to offer to do it for you if you are willing to mail the chip, and I mail it back - possibly with another backup or slightly better one patched with the faster interleave if that one isn't.

[Can you identify this cable? Centronics to 15 pin?]

DA-15 (Commonly incorrectly called DB-15, as "B" means a wider connector like DB-25) / https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-subminiature

 

IEEE 1284 (Formerly called a Centronics connector...) / https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_1284

 

Yes this would connect an 850, P:R: Connection, or MIO to a printer.

[Looking for disk mapper]

Maybe MyCopyR

https://archive.org/details/a8b_MyCopyR_v2.1_19xx_Smith_Glenn_US

 

or maybe CopyMate (Edit: the video below reminded me this program doesn't do enhanced/dual density)

https://archive.org/search.php?query=copymate

 

I show CopyMate in use in this video: (when I say "skew" I meant "interleave" !)

 

[810 Happy Mod?]

Bruce @ B&C Computervisions has the remaining original stock: http://www.myatari.com/

 

Here's the link to the price list on wayback machine before he removed them from his site in 2018:

http://web.archive.org/web/20180602020226/http://www.myatari.com/atarixlh.txt

 

Otherwise, there are some other threads on these forums describing how to build one yourself...

[Atari 810 not recognised]

2 hours ago, slaanesh said:

When I switch it on the power and busy light both come on, the motor spins, the head moves and 7 seconds later it stops leaving just the power light on.

My understanding is that this is correct behaviour for these drives.

Along with the motor spinning, the head should move from track 39 (near the spindle) to track 0 (near the outer edge). After 7 seconds, the drive should move the head back to track 39 before spinning down. Do you observe this?

[A Question About MMU's...]

10 hours ago, DavidMil said:

Are all Atari chip's (C061618) programmed the same?  I found a set of eight of these chips on a piece of antistatic foam in a small zip lock bag

in my closet.  The manufacture dates vary from 8316 to 8348 (which covers most of a 1983).  Can this same chip be used in all XL's and XE's?

These are the XL/XE MMU part #'s I'm aware of:

 

C060609 = 1200XL

C061917 = 1400XL (PAL A?)

C061618 = 600XL/800XL/65XE/130XE/800XE

C101686 = XEGS

 

Any digits like -01 / -03 after the above codes are merely manufacturing batch / production run ID's that bear no functional difference.

[1050 write protect jumpers J5, J6 and J7]

1 minute ago, CharlieChaplin said:

use this nice, but redundant program

Cool! I presume it's based on data returned from the $53 get status command. If so, such a method should also be able to detect whether a new disk is SD or ED without the computer reading a sector too. I'll have to try this. 

[Questions about the 810 drive]

8 hours ago, Larry said:

1. Is the Tandon or MPI mech. more desirable, or does it really matter?  Are they interchangeable?

As far as I know they are interchangeable. I've never owned a Tandon 810, but from pictures I see the analog board sits farther forward on top of the mechanism so that wires between it and the rear power board are a liitle more taut. Also, the Tandon mech front latch thingamajig has a reputation for being brittle and easily breaking. There's a big write-up about this issue on Best Electronics' site: https://www.best-electronics-ca.com/8-bit_.htm

 

Though apparently people have crafted up a replacement that can be 3D printed

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3135233

https://forum.vcfed.org/index.php?threads/tandon-drive-latch-problem-atari-810.77606/

 

8 hours ago, Larry said:

Were the "Grass Valley" mods all added together (data separator, power supply, stepper motor changes)?

In the 81-82 timeframe the parts became available individually, but eventually were offered as a complete kit consisting of:

• Replacement ROM revision "B" to revision "C" (Improved sector interleave from 12:1 optimized for DOS 1.0 to 9:1 optimized for burst I/O used by DOS 2.0)
• Addition of data separator board to the side board. Remve WDC FD1771 controller, place onto data separator board, install board into side board socket. In my own tests, I found that the original power board could not supply enough power to operate properly with this installed.
• Replacement rear power board that generates the +5 DC and +12DC using 7805/7812 voltage regulators instead of power transistors. Much more consistent power and much finer adjustment of drive RPM. RPM adjustment on the old power board is VERY touchy. The slightest turn will result in +/- 10RPM for instance. New power board needs at least a full 360 turn for that amount of change in RPM. The new voltage regulator configuration also resulted in a higher power draw on the 9VAC side, so Atari started including the now-common 31VA PSU vs the 15.3VA PSU's incuded with the original "pre-analog" 810's.
• Additional analog board that sits on top of the drive mechanism to house the rest of the components that could no longer fit on the new rear power board alone.

The data separator was initially made available to 810 owners by Percom prior to being offered directly from Atari.

 

An 810 ROM patch to achieve an improved sector interleave was documented in 1981 atari user group magazines, almost a year before it was offered by Atari. The "chicago" interleave was almost as good as 8:1 vs Atari's 9:1 interleave. This "chicago" interleave was also incorporated into 3rd party upgrades such as the 810 CHIP/Archiver, and Happy 810.

 

8 hours ago, Larry said:

3. Were there any other boards or mods from Atari that were added to make the 810 more reliable?

Other than potentially upgrading to a Happy or CHIP/Archiver for increased functionality / speed, maximum reliability is achieved with the main "grass valley" upgrades.

[Improved Sector Layout CX8111]

On 3/6/2022 at 12:37 PM, joeventura said:

I actually have a Percom data seperator for my 810 the pins broke on it in a move

 

What value does it provide?

The original 810's, like the TRS-80, used a WDC1771 controller, but did not heed the advice in the documentation from WDC to not use the built-in data separator or read reliability would suffer. See this from Page 1 of the Percom TRS-80 install guide:

 

https://archive.org/details/Percom_Data_Separator_Installation_Manual_19xx_Percom_Data_Co./mode/2up

 

For more detail on exactly *WHY* WDC recommended an external data separator, see this from "FD 1771-01 Application Notes" https://archive.org/details/rearc_fd1771-01-application-notes-198x/mode/2up

 

 

 

[Commodore 1702 Monitor: Problems lines]

Could be a bad capacitor, but it could also just use some adjusting of the trimpots on the back near the bottom. Not all of these can be accessed without removing the rear cover. Exercise these pots back and forth and adjust watching what they do on the screen to see if you can get back to an acceptable picture.

 

Here's a picture I took when I adjusted one of my own 1702's and tried to note what each did: