-^CrossBow^-
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Posts posted by -^CrossBow^-
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8 minutes ago, 0078265317 said:
This is mine. There are photos of the inside also. Except I did not remove the heat shield either.
http://mvvg.blogspot.com/2016/08/7800-from-ebay-with-2-controllers.html
Right yours doesn't show the large rectangular molding mark I'm talking about. I don't have a pic of it, but the top shell on the inside near the center of it will also have a strange wedge like shape of extra plastic molded that stick ups. In all instances, I've seen both that odd top shell abnormality and the section near the RF together on those 7800s. So they are part of the same mold set.
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4 minutes ago, 0078265317 said:
Mine A3 does not have expansion port. So are the those the more brittle ones?
The case shell that I'm specifically talking about is easy to see visually as it looks physically different from most others.
Look closely around the opening where the RF output usually is. You can see in this picture below that the case shell molding shows that at one point this mold had a large rectangular opening that was filled in later. I've only see these case shells are later made 7800s. This one was listed as an A3 on the serial number but all the chips inside it were mid '88 as I recall. So I don't know if this is an indicator that the shells were made from different places and these molds happen to be different from a particular location or what.
But this is the way I can tell these case shells that usually tend to have more brittle plastic than others.
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1 hour ago, FantasticDan said:
This is fantastic, I will check this out later today and let you know if I am able to make any progress. Thank you so much for doing this.
You already have your answers now, but I also did reply to your post in the 2600 section for this with a pic and points showing which connection from the resistor attaches to which point on the UAV. I actually get my power and Ground from much closer near the RF modulator section but those can be had from anywhere.
I actually posted a pic from the Rev 13 I did just last month but the Rev 12 and 13 are the same in the points to pick the signals from off the resistors near the TIA.
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12 minutes ago, Leatherrebel5150 said:
Did Best have the boots? I thought they did but could be wrong
Don't know as I've never looked or tried to order replacements. All of mine on my controllers are in still in good condition.
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18 minutes ago, Shawn said:
Heat gun.
Paper serial number sticker? I've NOT had any luck with that as the paper will still tear in the process of trying to remove it. The labels are on the bottom of the 7800 shell are NOT like the cartridge labels as they aren't laminated in any way and they are not foil tape type stickers either.
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15 hours ago, FantasticDan said:
I accidentally posted this in the 8-bit forum instead of 2600. I hope this is a good place to ask about this, sorry for the length but the available information on the 4-switch models is lacking, as an earlier commented stated. The CleanComp fried a couple components on my board, which I’ve repaired and verified working again, so I’m being overly cautious with this mod.
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I picked up a UAV to install in my 2600 and have some questions about the installation. I have a Rev13 4-switch model, without the 4050 and without the saturation boost. I can’t find any information in the provided manual regarding how to install this for my model, and after some email back and forth with the board developer, he referred me here to request assistance. I am good with soldering and I used to work in an electronics store so I know some things, but translating engineering documentation to actual steps or coming up with my own circuits I only have minimal experience with, and as I’ve already had issues getting the other ColorComp mod working so I want to make certain that I am installing this correctly. Basically, I am hesitant to try anything that aren’t explicit instructions at this point in order to avoid damaging something I’m not able to repair, but I can follow instructions and test or replace components capably.
So, questions:
On the UAV, where are the outputs and where are the inputs? The manual doesn’t say, the holes on the board aren’t labeled on the silkscreen or in the manual, and there’s only the 1 green junction block to connect wires to. On page 4 in the manual it shows the jumper settings which is fine, and on page 5 it has some red rectangles around the 2x10 header solder points and some numbers, but it doesn’t say what they mean. The DIP solder points aren’t labeled except for pin 1. What needs to be soldered where on the UAV and the main 2600 board?
Where should I be pulling audio from, and where does it go on the UAV (if at all)? The manual makes reference to an internal audio board by TBA on page 10, but I’m not sure what this is and I do not recall seeing this when purchasing the UAV. Is this a requirement? I do see 2 pins on the TIA chip for audio, should I just solder connections from here directly to R/L stereo RCAs, or do I bridge them both to 1 RCA (or to the 1 audio out on S-Video) for mono audio? Would I need to add a resistor or capacitor of some kind? I’d like to wire both composite and S-Video, would this be possible?
Would it just be better to buy a new 2600 that better matches the manual? If so, which model would be preferred?
I’ll attach some photos of my model’s board for reference, the TIA pinouts and the UAV board to make it easier. Mine has upside down text on the TIA chip which has been a source of confusion for me also. I apologize for the questions and if anything is redundant, but I have literally been working on this project for months and I’m starting to get frustrated and burnt out. I went through most of the pages in this thread, plus every other thread and youtube video I could find about the UAV, and didn’t see this information regarding my model. If I am able to get the UAV working, I’ll put a guide together so that this information is out there for future users.
Sorry for the length, but thank you for reading if you got down this far. I really am trying to learn engineering practices, but it’s difficult without someone to bounce questions off of.
The green terminal block on the UAV is the OUTput side...mostly. Going from the top down:
Ground - this can be used either as input ground or output ground. I tend to use it for output ground to my AV jacks.
Comp Video - This is the composite video OUTPUT to your AV jacks
Luma - is the Luma (Luminence) Output to an s-video AV jack
Chroma is the Color Output to an s-video AV jack
Color In - is an INPUT only via and you connect this to pin 9 of the TIA.
Now... lets talk about your revision a bit. Yours is actually very easy to wire up compared to the other example above because everything is pretty much right there in a row on the Rev 12 and Rev 13 boards. Here is a pic diagram of the wiring I used on the last Rev 13 2600 I did just a month ago. The numbers below the solder points are the matching numbers along the center of the UAV board. This is why I do NOT get the preassembled boards and use the basic UAVs for most of my setups because it is easier for me to just solder the wiring straight to the point on the UAV that is needed vs messing with the jumpers etc. You can still do this if you have the jumper header block installed. Do that by NOT using the jumpers and just solder the wiring to the matching pin of the header in the same spot as the numbers shown below on the UAV side. Again, this is along the center section of the UAV where you likely have a header pin set soldered into place that is blocking some of this.
The power and ground connections to the UAV can be gotten off the 2600 board in the same locations I've shown in the other pics further up. That part doesn't change although the location of the RF output jack does change, but otherwise, the points shown are in the same places.
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ResQ is excellent and I want to say that the company that made it did basically released it to public domain so that folks could run it in emulators etc. I've got a really nice repro cart of ResQ that I had made up for playing on my actual Genesis. Pretty sure I've got a Pulseman as well.
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10 minutes ago, Don 2600 and 5200 said:
Does your response include the newer Retro-Bit controllers?
I've not tested this myself but a standard 3 button Genesis controller can be used with I think Button C acting as the fire button. But on 7800 games it doesn't work quire right if memory serves.
What you have seen referenced on the 7800 side, is that it is possible to use a Genesis 3 or 6 button controller on the 7800 if you use an adapter like the Ed Laddin Seagull 78 or the Mega78. That said, the Mega78 or at least the first revision of the Mega78 like I have, treats the retro-bit 6 button controller as a 3 button controller. Newer versions of the Mega78 recognize the Retro-bit 6button as a proper 6 button genesis controller.
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33 minutes ago, Shawn said:
That same ebay seller with the top does have a bottom. $32 and it has the open expansion slot. If you still wanted one.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/266251942577?hash=item3dfdda3ab1:g:CYkAAOSwYjlkWn4Z
I've already sent his 7800 back his way in the mail. So it he were to replace it out, all of the AV jacks would need to be redone. But that is tempting for someone like me who has an A3 series 7800 that strange enough has chips with '84 date stamps in sockets with the expansion port attached to it... Hmmm..
What's the best way to transfer a serial number sticker? -
Well the 4050 is only still needed if you plan to still use the RF output. If you don't care to keep that working, then the 4050 isn't needed at that point. but as you already have it reattached to the UAV that is moot.
Okay, so given that if you leave it off for a bit it will work briefly indicates that something is getting hot very quickly and shutting down power to part of the circuit. Issues like this, I always follow the ASAP rule...
Always
Start
At
Power
So you need to get a voltmeter and verify that input voltage and output voltage from the twin voltage regulators in the system. Those are the small squares that are screwed down onto the large black plates near the power area. You measure the voltage with a meter by putting the black probe of the meter along any ground point on the board. Can even touch the RF modulator housing as that is always attached to ground. The red probe when attached to the left most leg or pin of the voltage regulator is the INPUT voltage. That will be somewhere around 10 - 12v on average from a 5200. The right most leg or pin of the voltage regulator is the output voltage that is provided to the rest of the 5200 logic. That should read around +5v.
So the VR readings need to be checked first and then we work our way down from there to see if the culprit can be found.
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Was it working properly prior to any modification work being done? If it wasn't or that wasn't tested, then it could also be a flaky voltage regulator that isn't doing its job properly etc. There are a number of things it could be. On the IC side of things, I'd start with the CPU first. Did you keep the 4050 IC in place when you installed the UAV or did you remove it completely? If you left it in place, I was going to suggest pulling the UAV out and just testing on RF output to help isolate the UAV setup as being part of the issue.
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Here are some of my suggestions for the game play to help game play balance a little:
- Make it be required that you have to get 9 eggs vs the 6
- Add some sort of RNG to the bird's appearance because currently I can tell is it is on a timer and I can pretty quickly predict when he will be coming out
- Couldn't tell on this one just yet, but the original caveman VFD game you could stand by the eggs back at your cave and protect them from the birds. Seems on yours it requires haven't to take them out else they will steal an egg regardless
- I like the idea of adding one more movement to the mama dino so that there is a bit more to see there visually
- Might limit how many boom-a-rangs you can toss at once as it is very easy currently just spam them at the dino and birds. If you were limited to maybe only 3 that you can toss and then it has to regenerate over some time, that might help
- Change the background and other palette of colors ever so many levels.
The other suggestions provided to help make it more like the Caveman game it is based on are all excellent ideas, but don't be afraid to add or change things to make the game your own as well.
I did see a graphical bug appear in the upper left where the level indicator shows between rounds. Looked like a square of grey rock title that was there. I will get this onto a flash cart to play on my actual console and record some a bit later to see if I can replicate it there also and show you more what I'm talking about.
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48 minutes ago, GoldenWheels said:
Jeez beyond the always scratched up chrome strip, I've got four (?) 7800s (and have sold 2) and none have broken the shell, ever. Reading this thread I guess I got really lucky, you guys make them sound like 5200s.
Which crack just getting looked at. I think my 5200 may have just cracked at home from me talking bad about it.
I've worked on and sent all over 100 7800s through the mail and to the best of my knowledge everything was fine. But I have had about 3 thar arrived with some cracks to the case or pieces broken off.
It is usually the boss posts in the rear section that break. In fact this posts will break if you crank down on the screws to much when putting them back in.
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On 10/3/2023 at 1:08 AM, bcb01 said:
This is essentially a CX-40, but every one I can find online only has 1 button. This one has 2. It is an original and came with a 2600 I have had since childhood. I have been digging around to get more information but I can't even find another image of one with 2 buttons like this. I have 3 controllers identical, there are no other markings/labels on it other than what you see (including on sides/bottom), that might otherwise help identify it.
Thanks team!
Is that a 3rd button on the top of joystick or just the design of the ball top? I can kinda see what looks like a seam around that top circle like it might be independent of the rest of the molding and able to be pressed?
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1 hour ago, juansolo said:
I can honestly say I've never seen that bodge before. Looks like it might be factory. No idea why, @marauder666 any ideas?
That is a mid 1990 made system so perhaps this was needed as a timing adjustment?
The 7800 is never a boring console to work on and really seems to have been a patchwork console from the beginning needing bodges like this on case by case basis.
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36 minutes ago, Ben_Larson said:
Looks pretty good.
I have a 'brittle case' 7800 where most of the internal screw posts broke off.
It's very strange because I have another unit made the exact same month and year (I think) and that one isn't really brittle at all.
If enough of those pieces can be found, you can fix that. I use a little bit of epoxy to get those pieces back into place followed with some shrink tubing around the posts to both hold them in place and provide additional strength. In fact, I usually apply 2 layers of shrink tubing around each of those rear boss posts to help with that going forward.
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19 minutes ago, jgkspsx said:
The Growing Ties Deluxe
box notably has the real Lynx logo on it.
Yes I made mention of that in the AA discord server but don't believe anything was discussed about it.
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31 minutes ago, 0078265317 said:
Lets see.
@Dire 51 has given permission so here it is. Keeping in mind I attached what I was able to find rattling around inside the case. Looks like the point of impact was right on the corner.
This is the repair with flash on to show all the details of the cracks etc...
Head on it isn't as noticed...
And without the flash in more natural light it isn't as obvious.
I tried something new that worked well to keep the epoxy from leeching through the cracks too much. Found that tin foil tape holds really well to the textured surface and help keep things in place while waiting for the epoxy to cure.
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On 9/24/2023 at 6:27 PM, Ocelo said:
So I'm planning on doing this mod with my Vader Atari 2600, but my TIA chip and my board revision are slightly different. Do you think that the instructions would be identical to the diagram that you have above for a C010444-11D TIA chip and board C015519 REV 17?
Thanks!
Yes you should be fine. Just like the other revisions listed, you will still need to attach wiring from the TIA pins 2, 5, 7, 8, and 9. Audio can also be gotten straight off 12 and 13, or find a point on the board just a little after that where they are already tied together and mixed.
As you have a Rev 17, you will also need to remove the 820Ω resistor that ties pins 6 and 9 of the TIA together or else the colors will be skewed from the UAV. That resistor is the usually the very first one just right of the TIA. You only need to lift one of the leads of that resistor off the board to take it out of circuit.
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7 minutes ago, 0078265317 said:
So if my serial number does not have an X its not brittle?
I'm not saying that at all. I'm just stating that many of the later made A3 and X series have plastic that is more brittle than the plastic of older made ones. After 40 years, they are all brittle to some degree and the conditions in which the console was stored will also play a factor.
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3 hours ago, GranitePenguin said:
This page appears to have info on what those loopback adapters need to look like: https://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~harvey/7800/diag.html
Yes I've seen that before but just never bothered to make up a set. Honestly I'm able to pretty much troubleshoot most issues on the 7800 between the 7800 Utility cartridge, Paul Slocum's Test Cart, and the 2600 diagnostic cart plus the troubleshooting pages for the 7800. The good thing about the 7800 having a 2600 inside it, is that most of the stuff and circuit for the 2600 consoles is mimicked on the 7800. An example is the paddle lines. There is no difference in the circuit schematics for those so the same tests for the 2600 paddle line issues can be used on the 7800.
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43 minutes ago, LordKraken said:
For that to work, we would need to get all lynx publishers (excluding AA obviously since they can use the original logo now) to agree on using that one alternative logo... good luck
Take another look at the boxes that AA has shown for the new releases for PRGE. The only have the AA logo on them. The Atari logo, Fuji, and even the fonts used have all changed or been removed on the newer boxes. So AA has the rights to use their AA logo, but it seems the rest of the old logos we used to have are no longer.
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3 hours ago, prorok said:
Okay, more "newbie" questions from a guy who has been playing on a 7800 since the 90's...
Is there an establish approach to 7800 debugging? I'm approaching the point where I'll start collecting all the IC's, socket EVERY DIP package on the board and just start swapping parts until I find some love. It would be cool if there were some diagnostics I could run that would exercise the CPU, MARIA, TIA, RAM, etc, so I wasn't just randomly swapping parts with the precision of a shotgun blast. I seem to recall there's some Uber-rare official 7800 diagnostics cart that is essentially unobtanium. Has someone developed a Homebrew test suite either on its own cart or that can be loaded on a Game Drive?
Thanks for the guidance.
And if you're still reading the thread, Al, let me know when time's up and you want me to send one of the two PETSCII carts back to you. I'm pretty sure it's not the cart's fault, but I'm happy to hold on to them until this problem is solved if you're cool with that.
The diagnostic cartridge ROM is out there and can be put onto a custom cartridge. The main issue with that diagnostic is that I believed it also required some loop back adapters that plugged into the controller ports similar to the Kludge plugs for the 2600 diagnostics.
I believe you stated that you don't have the extra bodge capacitor on the bottom of the board off pin25 of the 6502 CPU correct? While it shouldn't be needed, and I did state that removing it fixed 7800 Popeye for another AA member, you might try adding one in to see if it helps? I believe the original cap was only like 420pf. I don't keep anything that exact on hand, but have had luck using 1nf mlcc caps in that place on a few consoles. Worst that will happen if you do install it is that the console won't boot up any games at that point but it won't do any permanent damage.
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23 minutes ago, Dire 51 said:
Yeah, and according to CrossBow, I have a model that's known for having brittle plastic.
Yes... you have an X series 7800 or at least the shell is. I can tell because each of those very later made models has very very distinct moldings in the upper and lower shell. On the lower shell for instance, where the RF modulator comes out. The plastic there will show a separate textured section that is square. My guess is that the original moldings started to have some series flaws and that section was poured in separated to form the opening needed. Also, all of those models on the top shell have this very odd looking thick part that is molded into the center that honestly looks like a broken off section side piece from another upper shell that got caught in the molds. I've seen this on all X serial numbered consoles I've serviced and the plastic on them is crazy brittle compared to the others. It isn't very soft at all and tends to break like hard candy when you try and work with it. So you do have to be more careful with them.
I'm also examining my RING video to see if my postal worker might have caused it since I found the box standing on its end to begin with. But my RING started the recording just after he placed it on the porch so I can't be quite sure if he was gentle or semi dropped it as I have caught them in the past doing.
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For Sale -Atari 5200 (4-Port) Rebuilt
in Buy, Sell, and Trade
Posted
Pretty sure I did the work on this console about 2 years ago. If anyone wants more detailed pics of the work done internally, they can reach out to me although I suspect the OP might still have the originals I sent to them back in Nov 2021 when the services were first provided.