-^CrossBow^-

Take another look at the boxes that AA has shown for the new releases for PRGE. The only have the AA logo on them. The Atari logo, Fuji, and even the fonts used have all changed or been removed on the newer boxes. So AA has the rights to use their AA logo, but it seems the rest of the old logos we used to have are no longer.

The diagnostic cartridge ROM is out there and can be put onto a custom cartridge. The main issue with that diagnostic is that I believed it also required some loop back adapters that plugged into the controller ports similar to the Kludge plugs for the 2600 diagnostics. I believe you stated that you don't have the extra bodge capacitor on the bottom of the board off pin25 of the 6502 CPU correct? While it shouldn't be needed, and I did state that removing it fixed 7800 Popeye for another AA member, you might try adding one in to see if it helps? I believe the original cap was only like 420pf. I don't keep anything that exact on hand, but have had luck using 1nf mlcc caps in that place on a few consoles. Worst that will happen if you do install it is that the console won't boot up any games at that point but it won't do any permanent damage.

Yes... you have an X series 7800 or at least the shell is. I can tell because each of those very later made models has very very distinct moldings in the upper and lower shell. On the lower shell for instance, where the RF modulator comes out. The plastic there will show a separate textured section that is square. My guess is that the original moldings started to have some series flaws and that section was poured in separated to form the opening needed. Also, all of those models on the top shell have this very odd looking thick part that is molded into the center that honestly looks like a broken off section side piece from another upper shell that got caught in the molds. I've seen this on all X serial numbered consoles I've serviced and the plastic on them is crazy brittle compared to the others. It isn't very soft at all and tends to break like hard candy when you try and work with it. So you do have to be more careful with them. I'm also examining my RING video to see if my postal worker might have caused it since I found the box standing on its end to begin with. But my RING started the recording just after he placed it on the porch so I can't be quite sure if he was gentle or semi dropped it as I have caught them in the past doing.

My point was that NO composite only kits should cost even close to what the RGB kit did. I thought it was fairly priced for the features it had. It was time consuming to get everything wired up for the second button and controller modification wiring etc. But the results were really good for sure. I've used an earlier version of he RetroSix kit but as they are in the UK, with shipping it comes out the same or more than UAVs cost me here in the US from Brewing Academy so I will stick with using UAVs for the time being for all composite and s-video needs most most of the Atari systems.

Couple of ideas... your Intelly 2 actually has the variable capacitor on it just above the color IC chip. Could be that the clock freq is slightly out of spec and that should be checked/adjusted to where it needs to be. Could also just be that the RF modulator might need to be adjusted? There are two inductors on the intelly modulator. I don't have the pic in front of me right now, but one is for audio and the other is for the video. Put the 201 v4 test cart rom on it to see if shows any issues?

Well, that pretty much just leaves possibly the RIOT but still this is the ONLY game to give you any issues correct?

Its possible but you wouldn't normally do that unless there was an issue possibly with those chips. I've seen a few factory made 7800s with the Maria in a socket, or the CPU in a socket. But not usually mixed like that one and especially with the CPU dating from '84. It might be worth a shot to try a different 6502 in that console as I just don't see anything else that might cause this at this point. It is worth a check to make sure all of the cartridge port pins look to have good solder joints on the board.

It is odd how much older than the other ICs it is. But that 6502 could have been the first thing that was grabbed from the bin to install into it. But the fact that both MARIA and the 6502 are in sockets indicates that system might have failed initial QC and had to be reworked possibly before it was sold out as new.

That is just a capacitor and is supposed to be there. Have you reached out to Al to get a replacement yet? At this point I don't really have any other ideas. And....yes... You can leave that capacitor disconnected on the extra timing circuit for now if you want and it should be fine. Again, the only games that does effect for sure is 2600 dark chambers and 2600 kung fu master that I can confirm first hand. Wait a sec... both your MARIA and CPU ICs are in sockets? Are the other two large ICs opposite them also in sockets? It doesn't look like it from your picture of the timing circuit? That would indicate those chips were replaced out at some point...

Well, you won't really know if you have that in place or not unless you open up the console and look. The whole point of it was to improve compatibility with later made 2600 titles. But it did so at the cost of removing compatibility with a few Activision games as a result as well as incompatibility with Supercharger games. Like frogger not showing the sprites on the game play screen for instance. Earlier made 7800s in 84 - 86 timeframe don't usually have the extra timing circuit. But starting in late 86 and through most of 87 that part of the board has the extra chips and that capacitor marked as C64. You only need to clip or de-solder one leg of it to disable the timing circuit. I usually lift the right side leg on the consoles I service. Newer consoles after this will still have the markings on the board for the extra ICs and capacitor, but they won't be populated and instead have a vertical standing 0Ω resistor that is usually tan in color with the single black band across the middle that is soldered into play to bypass all of that. I've only confirmed that disabling that circuit effects 2600 Dark Chambers (But not always...) and 2600 Kung Fu Master with it disabled. I've been told that Stargate and 2600 Double Dragon could also be effected, but the little testing I've done with those games that hasn't been the case for me. But 2600 Kung Fu Master never works on the 7800 without that circuit on consoles that the rest of it in place. Just gives a black screen as I recall. The deglitch cap I talked about is what caused issues on one specific 7800 sent to me for the audio issues on their previous AV mod they had in place. I was using my actual 7800 Popeye cart to test it as that was the main game the owner was complaining about and found it was a glitchy mess that would lock up shortly after starting a game. So I don't know if there have been any other reports of that or not, but I did encounter it on one 7800 where it did NOT like that factory bodge in place so I removed it. Interesting, my daily driver 7800 has that same factory bodge on it as that is the pic from the bottom of my normal 7800 and it doesn't have an issue with that same Popeye cartridge. So it very much varies from console to console.

Yes and I mentioned it already I thought? Look to see if you have the extra timing circuit in place. If you do, there is an easy way to disable that to see if it helps. Next is to look for the presence of a capacitor (will look like a resistor but usually green or bluish in color) soldered on the bottom side of the PCB usually off pin 25 of the 6502 CPU. If so, you could try to disable that deglitch cap by removing one of the leads from it and see if anything changes. I had a 7800 here that wouldn't play the new popeye release and I found that factory added deglich cap was at fault. Once I removed it, Popeye was working just fine.Prior this it was doing something similar when starting it up as you have described for Petscii. The only risk I know of for removing that degltich capacitor is that it could cause Ballblazer (possibly Pole Position too) to not play stable anymore from an actual cartridge. But it seems to effect one release version of Ballblazer more than the other. And if it did cause issues with those games, both games end up working fine through flash carts I've found.

Correct, normal video RCA cables are not typically shielded properly and while they will work, they will allow for noise to come into the signal giving a less than ideal output. Some folks will use RG6 type coax similar to what is ran into your home for cable TV and cable internet services and then use different connectors to convert over to standard RCA as needed. Console5 used to sell nice RF cable replacements as I own a few that I use in the lab and in my game room. But it doesn't appear they offer them anymore...

That would be are very own @Yurkie here in these forums. Odd thing is that from what I was told is that They are listed as not being in stock by either. At least Tim's website states that both his and the US distro do not have them. That would be disappointing if @Yurkie does have some because I had a client a few months back that wanted me to install an RGB kit into his console and I couldn't because the kit was listed as NOT being available. So it ended up getting a UAV setup installed instead.

Could be, but these signals are being taken straight off the TIA chip itself so the rest of the atari board layout doesn't or shouldn't really matter since the TIA pinout is the same across all models. Now, what I could see is that some TIA revisions might cause differences like this. I see some variance with UAVs installed from 2600 to 2600. I had a 7800 once that had bad jail bars but only from composite and only when 2600 games were played. It ended up being the TIA causing them.

There is no way they are making that off each kit. It is just the simple transistor composite amp circuit. So yeah, anyone buying into those is not doing any amount of homework. Even a UAV from here in the states with shipping to the UK isn't going to cost that? Retrosix's clean comp is also much more available for those in the UK and more affordable for them as well.

What new composite kit? Far as I know they're aren't any composite kits or otherwise that can provide composite that cost anything near the cost of the 2600 RGB kit did?

Hmm..the jailbars are still present on this new version over s-video still. I'd hope that could be cleaned up more? But the overall color output does look improved over the earlier version board that I've got installed into a jr model.

I was told this by one of my clients that reached out to Tim and got an answer from Tim stating what you did about the boards not being cost feasible to have made currently and it would require a redesign.

Well again the 2600 RGB sandwiches between the main board and the TIA as you you still have to plug that in to use it. I assume his board is converting the actual Lum and sync signals off the TIA pins to generate the converted image that it outputs? And his board provided RGB, composite, and s-video outputs along with other functions like palette options, can switch between PAL and NTSC, and also built in pause. Provided you had the extra buttons connected to do this anyway. There was also the small extra daughter board that allowed for component output using the RGB outputs it created. I thought it was a FPGA based but maybe it was a CPLD setup and not quite as full on FPGA.

It was indeed using an FPGA just like his NESRGB does. And it still required the TIA sandwiched in the mix as I believe it took in the TIA video signals and used that create a new output based on that. But the TIA was also needed since it handles other functions on the console besides graphics and sound. And to your question about the cost. I think what Tim means is that it isn't feasible for him to still be able to offer it at that price point given the rise in prices for FPGAs and other similar chips. So it was likely too cost prohibitive to keep making them as they would have to cost quite a bit more is my guess.

I know this came up once before when OSSC FW .85 was released and there were complaints about Jag RGB not working stably for folks. At that time I wasn't having much issues with it but now I know it was because of the games I happen to be playing most of the time not being an issue. Now, with the recent batch of Jag releases from Reboot and others, I've now got to say that trying to play the Jag through RGB on my OSSC is a massive frustration. All of the games on my Dr. Typo collection have consant drop outs on the video with sync getting lost quite a bit. But I also noticed that even something like Hover Strike will have occasional drop outs. I've not got my OSSC on FW .89 (Hoping it would help issues with my 7800GD not working), and one of the new features I noticed about .89 is it now does auto phasing as I see a message pop up from the OSSC telling me as such. It doesn't come up on the Jag games, instead they just blink out completely for a second or two before coming back up. So yeah... any progress or settings that others have found work for them with Jaguar RGB through OSSC setups using RetroGamingCables Jag c-sync cables?

Another possibility here because I ran into this with Popeye 7800 on at least one console. You might see if your have the extra timing circuit enabled on your 7800. If so, disabling it might improve things. Also, unless the voltage regulator in your 7800 was also replaced with a higher output variant, using a beefier power supply won't do much if the regulator inside is still only rated for 1A output to the console. In any event, I'm happy to look at your console as I've got two versions of Petscii Robots here I could use to test with it and see if I can find out what's going on.

And I've worked on more than that and had to replace about a dozen of those chips over the past couple of years. So I don't know what to tell you in that regard. I actually like the stock controllers and yes I've also had to repair quite a few over the years. But it still surprises me how often I've ran into these 4052s being an issue as well.

Excellent! Yeah... it is odd I've encountered more issues with the 4052 chips causing controller issues lately than actual bad controllers. Makes me wonder if in the past, how many folks blamed their controllers as not working on the controller when it could very well have been one or more of those MUX chips.

Okay, that makes sense. Yeah I don't have a full 1mb of ram expanded in my 130xe. So that explains that. And yes the other IK EE does seem to work in Stereo on my 130xe without issue. Although I'm pretty sure it comes up in default mode with mixed audio evenly across both Pokeys. If I press the M key on the keyboard a few times, I will then hear different sounds breaking out from each pokey across the speakers. But yeah that one seems working for me. But I'm also using two actual POKEYs off my TK-II board. The one that came off the 130xe, and another out of an older 5200.