-^CrossBow^-
-
Posts
12,758 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Blogs
Gallery
Events
Store
Community Map
Posts posted by -^CrossBow^-
-
-
Couple of ideas... your Intelly 2 actually has the variable capacitor on it just above the color IC chip. Could be that the clock freq is slightly out of spec and that should be checked/adjusted to where it needs to be. Could also just be that the RF modulator might need to be adjusted? There are two inductors on the intelly modulator. I don't have the pic in front of me right now, but one is for audio and the other is for the video.
Put the 201 v4 test cart rom on it to see if shows any issues?
-
Well, that pretty much just leaves possibly the RIOT but still this is the ONLY game to give you any issues correct?
-
2 minutes ago, prorok said:
Maybe, or it could have been done later. I purchased the system with several mods to have all the bells and whistles: UAV S-video out, blue power LED, recapped with new power regulator, and a normal barrel connector for the power supply. It's possible that as part of the Cadillac refurbishment treatment, it got sockets added for the MARIA and the 6502.
Its possible but you wouldn't normally do that unless there was an issue possibly with those chips. I've seen a few factory made 7800s with the Maria in a socket, or the CPU in a socket. But not usually mixed like that one and especially with the CPU dating from '84. It might be worth a shot to try a different 6502 in that console as I just don't see anything else that might cause this at this point.
It is worth a check to make sure all of the cartridge port pins look to have good solder joints on the board.
-
1
-
-
26 minutes ago, marauder666 said:
CPU definately swapped, its 1984.
It is odd how much older than the other ICs it is. But that 6502 could have been the first thing that was grabbed from the bin to install into it. But the fact that both MARIA and the 6502 are in sockets indicates that system might have failed initial QC and had to be reworked possibly before it was sold out as new.
-
1 minute ago, prorok said:
Thanks for reiterating the suggestion to go exploring for the timing circuit. It appears mine was intact: C64 was in place. I went ahead and desoldered one leg and lifted up, but, alas, PETSCII is no different...same AA logo corruption on first screen and crash thereafter.
Meanwhile, there's nothing on the bottom of the board in the vicinity of the 6502. The only thing on the top of the board in the vicinity of the 6502 is a yellowy-orange thing jumpered across two pins of the MARIA chip.
Any thoughts on next steps? Thanks for your help so far!
That is just a capacitor and is supposed to be there. Have you reached out to Al to get a replacement yet? At this point I don't really have any other ideas. And....yes...
You can leave that capacitor disconnected on the extra timing circuit for now if you want and it should be fine. Again, the only games that does effect for sure is 2600 dark chambers and 2600 kung fu master that I can confirm first hand.
Wait a sec... both your MARIA and CPU ICs are in sockets? Are the other two large ICs opposite them also in sockets? It doesn't look like it from your picture of the timing circuit? That would indicate those chips were replaced out at some point...
-
28 minutes ago, desiv said:
"The more you know!!!"
I hadn't heard about this.And as a result I just spent the last half hour researching this and testing some 2600 games on my 7800 to see how my 7800 handled them. (They worked fine on mine)
It will be interesting to see if this is related to the OPs problem...Well, you won't really know if you have that in place or not unless you open up the console and look. The whole point of it was to improve compatibility with later made 2600 titles. But it did so at the cost of removing compatibility with a few Activision games as a result as well as incompatibility with Supercharger games. Like frogger not showing the sprites on the game play screen for instance.
Earlier made 7800s in 84 - 86 timeframe don't usually have the extra timing circuit. But starting in late 86 and through most of 87 that part of the board has the extra chips and that capacitor marked as C64. You only need to clip or de-solder one leg of it to disable the timing circuit. I usually lift the right side leg on the consoles I service. Newer consoles after this will still have the markings on the board for the extra ICs and capacitor, but they won't be populated and instead have a vertical standing 0Ω resistor that is usually tan in color with the single black band across the middle that is soldered into play to bypass all of that.
I've only confirmed that disabling that circuit effects 2600 Dark Chambers (But not always...) and 2600 Kung Fu Master with it disabled. I've been told that Stargate and 2600 Double Dragon could also be effected, but the little testing I've done with those games that hasn't been the case for me. But 2600 Kung Fu Master never works on the 7800 without that circuit on consoles that the rest of it in place. Just gives a black screen as I recall.
The deglitch cap I talked about is what caused issues on one specific 7800 sent to me for the audio issues on their previous AV mod they had in place. I was using my actual 7800 Popeye cart to test it as that was the main game the owner was complaining about and found it was a glitchy mess that would lock up shortly after starting a game. So I don't know if there have been any other reports of that or not, but I did encounter it on one 7800 where it did NOT like that factory bodge in place so I removed it. Interesting, my daily driver 7800 has that same factory bodge on it as that is the pic from the bottom of my normal 7800 and it doesn't have an issue with that same Popeye cartridge. So it very much varies from console to console.
-
1
-
-
10 minutes ago, prorok said:
Well, I've run the next rounds of experiments and not much closer to getting PETSCII running yet.
EXPERIMENT 1: I plugged in the over-spec'd 2500 mA power supply and PETSCII Robots fails in the same consistent way after the first screen.
EXPERIMENT 2: I completed a significant "Rite of Passage" and successfully placed and received my first-ever order from Bradley at Best Electronics. Included in that order was my lifetime maximum of ONE POKEY chip: a sealed box copy of Ballblazer. Given all my Atari stuff as a kid came second, third, or fourth hand from garage sales, this was the first time in my life I had a brand new Atari game box I could tear the shrink-wrap off of. Plugged in Ballblazer, played a few rounds, and it appears to work just fine, complete with the groovy music.
I had been operating from a theory that maybe the 7800 wasn't getting the power it needed to run the extra HW on the PETSCII carts. That's why I went with a beefier power supply and another title that has extra HW and extra current draw. If I want to keep beating down the power supply theory, I could take a stern look at the internal voltage regulator, but I'm starting to doubt this is the problem since I'd think the problem would be more intermittent, vary with temperature or playing time or something...and why would it have anything to do with the corruption of the Atari Age logo on the initial screen?
Nevertheless, I'm getting ready to open up my 7800 and start probing the regulator. In the meantime, is there anything else I should take a look at while I'm inside?
Dan
Yes and I mentioned it already I thought? Look to see if you have the extra timing circuit in place. If you do, there is an easy way to disable that to see if it helps.
Next is to look for the presence of a capacitor (will look like a resistor but usually green or bluish in color) soldered on the bottom side of the PCB usually off pin 25 of the 6502 CPU. If so, you could try to disable that deglitch cap by removing one of the leads from it and see if anything changes.
I had a 7800 here that wouldn't play the new popeye release and I found that factory added deglich cap was at fault. Once I removed it, Popeye was working just fine.Prior this it was doing something similar when starting it up as you have described for Petscii. The only risk I know of for removing that degltich capacitor is that it could cause Ballblazer (possibly Pole Position too) to not play stable anymore from an actual cartridge. But it seems to effect one release version of Ballblazer more than the other. And if it did cause issues with those games, both games end up working fine through flash carts I've found.
-
Correct, normal video RCA cables are not typically shielded properly and while they will work, they will allow for noise to come into the signal giving a less than ideal output.
Some folks will use RG6 type coax similar to what is ran into your home for cable TV and cable internet services and then use different connectors to convert over to standard RCA as needed.
Console5 used to sell nice RF cable replacements as I own a few that I use in the lab and in my game room. But it doesn't appear they offer them anymore...
-
1
-
-
11 hours ago, Atari Dogs said:
I reached out to a guy guy in Columbus Ohio that advertises he can install mods. He told me the US distributor of Tim Worthington's mod mod has it in stock. I am waiting to hear who the distributor is.
That would be are very own @Yurkie here in these forums. Odd thing is that from what I was told is that They are listed as not being in stock by either. At least Tim's website states that both his and the US distro do not have them. That would be disappointing if @Yurkie does have some because I had a client a few months back that wanted me to install an RGB kit into his console and I couldn't because the kit was listed as NOT being available. So it ended up getting a UAV setup installed instead.
-
1
-
-
1 hour ago, FireStar said:
It seemed from discord chat, the jailbars varied board revision to board revision.
Could be, but these signals are being taken straight off the TIA chip itself so the rest of the atari board layout doesn't or shouldn't really matter since the TIA pinout is the same across all models. Now, what I could see is that some TIA revisions might cause differences like this. I see some variance with UAVs installed from 2600 to 2600. I had a 7800 once that had bad jail bars but only from composite and only when 2600 games were played. It ended up being the TIA causing them.
-
6 minutes ago, juansolo said:
If you want to dispair at some of the BS that's out there, click on the link:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/133754808637
Not only does this individual commit the unforgivable crime of soldering veroboard on the wrong side, they're selling less than £5 in parts for £100 and can't be arsed to assemble it.
Over 100 'kits' sold...
There is no way they are making that off each kit. It is just the simple transistor composite amp circuit. So yeah, anyone buying into those is not doing any amount of homework. Even a UAV from here in the states with shipping to the UK isn't going to cost that? Retrosix's clean comp is also much more available for those in the UK and more affordable for them as well.
-
4 hours ago, turbo graphics 220 said:
I'm really surprised because his website and ebay store were working fine just a few weeks ago. I've been using his 2600 kit since it was new and it has been working perfectly even to this day but actually I just use the composite output. An extra bonus is that I didn't know when buying this is that NTSC games work with the correct colour on my PAL system if you change the pallete which can be changed using the extra button mod. The extra button on the controller is super convenient for games that you need to reset a lot like in dragster. Now I see there is a new composite mod that is about as expensive as this kit was that people are getting when they could have just got this one instead years ago.
What new composite kit? Far as I know they're aren't any composite kits or otherwise that can provide composite that cost anything near the cost of the 2600 RGB kit did?
-
On 9/25/2023 at 9:39 PM, FireStar said:
Crossposting my experiences out of the retrosix discord just so they have more visibility.
I found with my particular board revision (rev 14) of the 2600 (America region), there was a resistor soldered onto back pins of the TIA, from pin 6 to 9.
After some googling figured out it's a stock atari tweak for improving color (the resistor existed on newer versions of the board out of the box it seemed)sources: https://wiki.console5.com/wiki/Atari_2600#Blanking_resistor_-_(Tech_Tip_4,_11/17/82) and https://forums.atari.io/topic/2967-wavy-lines-jail-bars-rolling-horizontal-bar-through-the-screen-snowy-picture-on-2600s/Since CleanComp V2 wasn't specifically tuned for this variation, I tested it out and the color change was apparent with the resistor connected, especially over composite.A few comparisons below:Svideo without Resistor: Svideo with blanking Resistor:
Composite without Resistor: Composite with blanking Resistor:
Svideo without Resistor: Svideo with blanking Resistor: (blur deinterlace from the capture card kinda messes this up)
Basically, if you have a rev 14 board, if it already has the blanking resistor installed, add it back after installing cleancomp, if it doesn't have it at all, add it in.
Hmm..the jailbars are still present on this new version over s-video still. I'd hope that could be cleaned up more? But the overall color output does look improved over the earlier version board that I've got installed into a jr model.
-
On 9/26/2023 at 3:23 PM, M-S said:
I think the mod was out of production from a few months ago already. I wanted to see if I could get a response from Tim himself, but it doesn't seem like he would answer, I think I'll tag @Yurkie.
I was told this by one of my clients that reached out to Tim and got an answer from Tim stating what you did about the boards not being cost feasible to have made currently and it would require a redesign.
-
19 minutes ago, M-S said:
It doesn't look like an FPGA, one of the chips is branded "Music Semi" and the other one only has a logo on it, I searched for most of the FPGA companies and I couldn't find anything similar to that, while the NESRGB has a very big Altera logo on it. But how would it take the video signals from the TIA to generate an image if there are no R/G/B pins on it? The best you could do would be S-Video then, the fact it is between them also is weird, I know the TIA also reads analog input signals from the controllers and the audio is just a passthrough, but I only wanted to know about the video signals.
Well again the 2600 RGB sandwiches between the main board and the TIA as you you still have to plug that in to use it. I assume his board is converting the actual Lum and sync signals off the TIA pins to generate the converted image that it outputs? And his board provided RGB, composite, and s-video outputs along with other functions like palette options, can switch between PAL and NTSC, and also built in pause. Provided you had the extra buttons connected to do this anyway. There was also the small extra daughter board that allowed for component output using the RGB outputs it created. I thought it was a FPGA based but maybe it was a CPLD setup and not quite as full on FPGA.
-
13 hours ago, M-S said:
I saw the announcement on Tim's website, how is the mod not economically viable to produce anymore? People weren't buying it at 80AUD anymore?
Also, technical question, does this use an FPGA just like the NESRGB or is it different? And if so, does it need the TIA to generate video signals or it does all of it independently?
It was indeed using an FPGA just like his NESRGB does. And it still required the TIA sandwiched in the mix as I believe it took in the TIA video signals and used that create a new output based on that. But the TIA was also needed since it handles other functions on the console besides graphics and sound.
And to your question about the cost. I think what Tim means is that it isn't feasible for him to still be able to offer it at that price point given the rise in prices for FPGAs and other similar chips. So it was likely too cost prohibitive to keep making them as they would have to cost quite a bit more is my guess.
-
I know this came up once before when OSSC FW .85 was released and there were complaints about Jag RGB not working stably for folks. At that time I wasn't having much issues with it but now I know it was because of the games I happen to be playing most of the time not being an issue.
Now, with the recent batch of Jag releases from Reboot and others, I've now got to say that trying to play the Jag through RGB on my OSSC is a massive frustration. All of the games on my Dr. Typo collection have consant drop outs on the video with sync getting lost quite a bit. But I also noticed that even something like Hover Strike will have occasional drop outs.
I've not got my OSSC on FW .89 (Hoping it would help issues with my 7800GD not working), and one of the new features I noticed about .89 is it now does auto phasing as I see a message pop up from the OSSC telling me as such. It doesn't come up on the Jag games, instead they just blink out completely for a second or two before coming back up.
So yeah... any progress or settings that others have found work for them with Jaguar RGB through OSSC setups using RetroGamingCables Jag c-sync cables?
-
1 hour ago, prorok said:
Update for those following along at home...
Al was kind enough to send me another cart and, unfortunately, it fails in exactly the same way, including the logo corruption.Obviously, my attention is now very focused on my console. I'm now giving a stern look at my power supply. My 7800 is modded to accept a standard 2.1mm x 5.5mm barrel connector and I'm using whatever (supposedly) 9VDC / 1A power supply the modder sent to me when I purchased the console some years ago. While I have never had problems with other carts, I have no other home-brews or stock carts with a lot of additional on-cart hardware (such as a HOKEY or a POKEY). My current theory is that the power supply is not fit for purpose.
I've ordered a 9VDC / 2500 mA Triad Magnetics power supply to try out as my next cheapest option as I debug.
Thank you, all, for the suggestions.
Tune in next week for the next installment to this drama. 🙂
Another possibility here because I ran into this with Popeye 7800 on at least one console. You might see if your have the extra timing circuit enabled on your 7800. If so, disabling it might improve things. Also, unless the voltage regulator in your 7800 was also replaced with a higher output variant, using a beefier power supply won't do much if the regulator inside is still only rated for 1A output to the console.
In any event, I'm happy to look at your console as I've got two versions of Petscii Robots here I could use to test with it and see if I can find out what's going on.
-
1 minute ago, ianoid said:
That is not my experience or most people's experience. The controllers suuuck. I probably have found 1 perfect working controller to 10 bad ones. They all need work and rev 9 flex circuits.
This is the first unit I've had to fix the ports and I've had maybe two dozen.
And I've worked on more than that and had to replace about a dozen of those chips over the past couple of years. So I don't know what to tell you in that regard. I actually like the stock controllers and yes I've also had to repair quite a few over the years. But it still surprises me how often I've ran into these 4052s being an issue as well.
-
1 hour ago, ianoid said:
I was kind of expecting the chips to be like the Colecovision which correspond to one controller, I think, but after I replaced the other 4052, the unit works great. The 4052 failed testing on my chip tester pro as well. So problem solved.
Thanks for your help.
Excellent! Yeah... it is odd I've encountered more issues with the 4052 chips causing controller issues lately than actual bad controllers. Makes me wonder if in the past, how many folks blamed their controllers as not working on the controller when it could very well have been one or more of those MUX chips.
-
1 hour ago, Peri Noid said:
Atari Blast! Requires full 1MB of RAM to work from FN. But if you have it on a cart, it works fine on a stock machine.
Okay, that makes sense. Yeah I don't have a full 1mb of ram expanded in my 130xe. So that explains that. And yes the other IK EE does seem to work in Stereo on my 130xe without issue. Although I'm pretty sure it comes up in default mode with mixed audio evenly across both Pokeys. If I press the M key on the keyboard a few times, I will then hear different sounds breaking out from each pokey across the speakers. But yeah that one seems working for me. But I'm also using two actual POKEYs off my TK-II board. The one that came off the 130xe, and another out of an older 5200.
-
16 hours ago, woj said:
Seriously, that was it, too little memory. Megablast (I mixed it up with Atariblast above) now also works.
One could wonder that with being that absent minded I do not fall under cars everyday and I can actually write working 6502 code
Though on a third attempt usually...
Speaking of Atari Blast, does it not work with FujiNet? I've tried three different downloads of Atari Blast to run on my 130xe and it will start to load up and I sometimes see the initial AtariBlast screen that shows the sectors under it..but then it just locks up with a solid tone usually playing at that point? My Uno won't load it due to the size of the image so my FujiNet is the only way. I have Atari Blast for my 5200 so I do have a way to play it, but was curious to check it out on my 130xe.
-
15 hours ago, Zilch said:
Thanks so much! Now I know what it is, it makes sense, the console came with the VCS accessory. Fortunately I have a 2600 and also pre-ordered the 2600+, so the only thing the 5200 needs to do is 5200 things.
If I leave the playground equipment in, would that affect my upcoming UAV and power mods?
You can leave it in place and it will not affect the operation of the UAV. It will also be fine with the power conversion mod as well.
In fact, with the UAV in place, the VCS adapter would still work, but ONLY output video/audio through RF at that point. Speaking of, not sure which guide you might be using, but you do NOT have to remove the RF cable that is soldered to the board. Once you remove that inductor along side it between the cable and the RF modulator, you have removed the voltage that flows through it and it can then be used as a normal RF cable at that point.
-
1
-
-
7 hours ago, Zilch said:
Good morning, all!
I started my first real console mod on my 1982 4 port beast 5200. Lots of good memories playing my grandparents' system back then, Qix and such. My only TV can't detect RF signal that isn't digital and I wanna route the 5200 through my home theater tuner anyway (Centipede sounds, FTW) so I decided to remove the RF second, add the power mod, and the UAV mod.
I've watched a few YT videos on this and am basically duplicating:
No worries, this I can manage. Actually this has inspired me to learn electronics and repair the other half dozen old consoles I have awaiting my fun home theater...seems like a great use of time!
Unfortunately, I got as far as removing the interior RF shielding and found that someone else has modified the console. It has a bunch of resistors and something else added to the existing resistor area with three leads going from these to the underside of the cartridge receptacle. I have no idea why someone would have done this, if I should keep it instact, remove it, modify it, or what.
Do any of you know what this resistor playground equipment thing might be doing?
Here's a (crappy) video of what's going on, since still shots don't really show it well.
As @RB5200 stated that is for the VCS adapter modification on the 4 ports. Also worth noting that most AV mods disable the ability to use that adapter so the mod that was done in this case, isn't likely to be of use to you unless you design to do something different like the UAV and leaving the RF modulator in place.
Off topic, but I've always wondered why they didn't just do all of this on the bottom side of the PCB? the crimping off the wiring that you can see over time from the RF shield pinching and cartridges? I recently got a 4 port with the modification in place and redid all of the stuff on the bottom to avoid any issues with it in the future. But I do wonder why they didn't from the beginning? It isn't any more difficult than top side since you still have to remove the RF shielding regardless?
Though on a third attempt usually...
Like us on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter
AtariAge on Instagram
Watch us on YouTube
Chat on Discord
Atari 2600 RGB mod
in Atari 2600
Posted
My point was that NO composite only kits should cost even close to what the RGB kit did. I thought it was fairly priced for the features it had. It was time consuming to get everything wired up for the second button and controller modification wiring etc. But the results were really good for sure.
I've used an earlier version of he RetroSix kit but as they are in the UK, with shipping it comes out the same or more than UAVs cost me here in the US from Brewing Academy so I will stick with using UAVs for the time being for all composite and s-video needs most most of the Atari systems.