-^CrossBow^-

September 21

Is this IK EE different from the other versions I've seen out there? I have one of the newer releases of IK that I think has a 2023 date on it, and it only plays mono on the left through my 130xe with the stereo switched on. Yoomp has never been an issue and always detects the stereo on my setup and Pang also detects it on my 130xe (Although the game itself ins't playable on my NTSC console). But it does at least start and I can hear the title music etc.

September 20

All of the boxes and labels in the store have removed the Jaguar and Lynx logos from them as well. Might the back orders be also due in part to having to get new boxes and manuals..etc. done?

September 18

3 minutes ago, sramirez2008 said:

"UPDATE COMPLETE" v18 is working as expected for me. I tested Pink Panther, Phoenix, Zenophobe, Dig Dug and Communist Mutants.

Note: Guess I need to test Survival Island next.

But you have been using the standard FW all along right? Seems that once you update to the UCA version it won't go back. Or at least mine just throws invalid File errors when I try to run the v18 update on my cart. But I'm pretty sure I was able to apply the latest UCA update without issue that has v17 in it. Who knows?

September 18

4 minutes ago, bent_pin said:

Wonder if a 7800 diag cart could be made to identify the revision number of the console and the presence of an enable extra timing circuit.

Not sure about that, but I can tell you that @SpiceWare's old Parrot Demo that uses Bus stuffing, refuses to work properly on any 7800 that has that timing circuit in place. With it enabled, the code is running but the screen is a scrambled mess. As soon as you clip the capacitor lead and disable that circuit, the parrot comes into view instantly. So I actually use that demo to get a pretty accurate measure of a 7800 having that circuit in place or not.

September 18

11 hours ago, phoenixdownita said:

Thanks for checking.

In due time maybe you can try a couple alternative 7800 revisions.

At least the std unocart fw works for me ( will give v18 a try soon) … pity because the UCA has a better UI allowing to navigate the SD list much easier thanks to the smaller font.

I went back and tested with my lab 7800. That is an A3 model and it has the timing circuit disabled and no issues with those 3 games. I even played some Xenophobe and everything was fine. I'm still bad at the 2600 version but it played without issues as did the other games.

So that is both an A1 that doesn't have the extra circuit at all and an A3 that does but disabled working fine with the UCA FW 2.17.

So yeah, if a version with the new v18 stuff added comes out, I'm going to give that try to see if the Supercharger stuff is better as that build addresses.

September 18

6 hours ago, retrosix said:

So V2 is finally out and sold quite a few to get some general feedback.

Issues fixed since V1's.

Audio sorted and correctly buffered via its own buffer so no interference or lost audio

Luma sharpness improved / undershoot reduced

Luma / Chroma timing improved alignment

Much better filtering into board and power to stop the "5V not present" issue

S-Video big improvements, reduced cross-talk, and better levels after more devices to test on (OSSC, RetroTink etc...)

Upgraded capacitors to AV spec tolerances

I feel the composite is as good as it will get, and all we really have left is dot crawl. Without TIA intervention we can't change that bit I don't think.

S-Video I am still looking for feedback on, as I feel it should be able to be possibly improved slightly. It looks really sharp (perfect) on Luma so I think we have zero issue there. Chroma I feel perhaps could be tweaked the waveform a little as you get slight slow bleed between sharp edges. Unless thats just S-Video limitations?

Known possible improvements

Remove cross-talk on S-Video with shielded cables or PCB design updates perhaps

Remove slight vertical bars most visible on dark blues. Perhaps actual Atari 2600 board mods to filter TIA circuit

Anyone want to give me some feedback on this version? If so simply place an order at retrosix.co.uk and in your order notes ask to include a free CleanComp V2 and your username from AtariAge and I will chuck them in for free for testing. I'll limit it to about the first 20 people but I think we only had about 20 people in this thread test anyway.

Any other feedback greatly welcome and thanks again for testing and giving feedback on this product, its made it into a really nice and easy, clean mod for the 2600 that I've had a lot of positive feedback from.

I'm up for testing as this would have been really nice over the past month or so while I was literally doing over a dozen consoles. That said, I'm concerned anytime I see pot trimmers on a board? Because, it means some dialing in is required and that can vary greatly from display to display. So my concern is trying to install and set something like this up for another person, adjust it looking good on my AV setup, but then they complain when they receive it because it looks over saturated or washed out...etc?

What has been the initial feedback on that so far? Because I can tell you that most of my clients that receive services from me are NOT willing to open up their consoles to have to tweak anything.

September 17

So as promised I pulled out my daily driver 7800 and fired up Xenophobe, Phoenix, and DigDug on it. Far as I know I have the UCA 2.17 build.

All three games load up and play just fine for me. The ONLY issue I had was that at some point in Xenophobe I suddenly couldn't fire off any shots anymore? But then after I got hit by one of the aliens and fell down, I could shoot again? So I'm not exactly sure what happened there but it only happened just the once. Either way, all three games loaded up fine and I was able to play through them.

My daily driver 7800 is a an A1 series unit. I do NOT know which CPU I have in there as I actually stuck heatsinks onto all four of the main chips a few years back before I took any pics of it for archives. So... yeah, no idea which Sally I have in it but I've never really had any compatibility issues with any games. Loads up Robot Tank and my Super Charger works on it too.

September 17

38 minutes ago, phoenixdownita said:

I can update to UCA just fine and downgrade as well, but some games glitch badly on any UCA fw vs std v17 which is instead ok.

I was hoping you did extensive testing of UCA on 7800 NTSC to see if it is something maybe with my console. If I understand it correctly you have a few 7800 revisions available to you.

The post I linked above mentions a couple of 2600 games that glitch on UCA (any version) but work on v17 like Xenophobe, Phoenix and even DigDug.
To add perspective I own Phoenix 2600 in cart form and it works fine on my 7800, same for unocart std v17 but any UCA fw instead has the game glitching, that’s the one actual cart I can directly compare on my 7800 (I do not own any true 2600 console or any other 7800 console to check against and then again only UCA fw shows the in game issues for at least those few titles, some other titles like Pitfall and Pitfall 2 seem to be fine under UCA so it’s not all of the games either).

Oh..okay I understand now. I honestly don't know as I only have about a dozen roms loaded on my UNO since I mainly use it in the lab to service consoles. But I can try and load those up into it and see what I get? I also have more than a few 2600s on hand right now that I can see if there is any difference in those games. Will be a bit later though before I can get to trying that out.

September 17

1 hour ago, phoenixdownita said:

Hi @-^CrossBow^- any chance you tested your UNO2600 + UCA fw on NTSC 7800? I have a The Brewing Academy made one.

More details here :

Unfortunately MacRorie has been busy and so far has not had the time to test on an NTSC 7800.

Mine has a longhorn eng video mod + timing capacitor snip fix in case it makes any difference.

My UNO 2600 was also purcased from TBA a number of years ago. I do have the 2.1.7 UCA FW on mine and it has worked without issue? The problem now, is that since it is running the UCA, it won't take this new v18 build as it just gives an Invalid File error when trying to run it. So I have to wait until the UCA build is updated with v18 in it.

Are you not able to get any version of the UCA FW working on yours? I'm pretty sure I did the initial update listed for it, and then was able to do further updates thereafter just running the file off my SD card?

September 16

Well for me it is a bit more complex. I only ever used RF back in the day as I didn't get any console newer than the 7800 before going to PC gaming. It wasn't until I got back into retro gaming in the late 90s early 00s that started to pick up and play on the systems I never had after the 7800. But here is the thing. At that time, I was still using CRTs for all normal TV viewing in the house and on my computer. Once the ITC moved to its current home, that is when I started to upgrade all of the AV stuff to large flat panels in the rooms to watch shows and movies on. I also got rid of the 32" CRT I'd been using in the game room up to that time to a new 48" flat panel. And the first time I saw how the old systems looked on it, I was... well I couldn't handle it LOL! The one that really really made me decide to see if there were better options to get better video output from my consoles was the Genesis when trying to play Shadowrun. The text was unreadable through composite on my LCD and nothing I did could correct that. So... It became the first console in my collection to get an AV upgrade. Installed a hand done s-video board I made into it and I just do NOT see myself ever going back to anything less.

For me RF on newer displays even when it can lock in and tune into the signal, is just muddy, constantly looks like it is going in and out of focus, and much too dark. As I also have more modern systems that can take advantage of a modern display and NO room for more than a single large flat panel, I have no reason, nor drive to put anything back onto CRT for normal use. I do have a small PVM in the lab I use for composite and color calibration stuff. But I do NOT use it for normal gaming as the display is quite small (8") and growing up, I was playing 2600 on a color 19" Magnavox so a smaller CRT doesn't appeal to me either. I want to sit back 6 - 10ft away on the couch in the game room and play my games on a nice large display that I can see clearly and just enjoy it all. And for me, my consoles with various AV upgrades in them is how that works for me.

So I can only say that I can understand why folks still prefer to use CRTs for their classic consoles. But for me personally, I will always prefer the near emulation quality output I get from all of them now.

September 16

5 minutes ago, DirtyHairy said:

This update is for the original UnoCart firmware, not for the UCA firmware.

Guess that is why it comes up with invalid file when I tried to run it recently?

Will there be an update to the UCA version soon?

September 16

1 hour ago, original_gamer said:

Updated from v16 to v18 with no problems, The update took only a few seconds and now all the Supercharger games work. Thanks!!

Sorry, posted in wrong place!

Which update did you run? I tried to run the .BIN that was in the official post and my UNO just says invalid file when I try to run it? I have the UCA firmware loaded up in mine so not sure if that part of the issue now or what?

Is there a newer UCA version that has the v18 build in it yet?

September 16

10 hours ago, Atariboy2600 said:

Still have all my old 5200 controllers and yes none working even there rubber joystick parts are all ripped out need to replace them too some how.

Not sure of a source for the rubber boots that go around the controller, but the rest of the buttons can be purchased new from the link provided in this post as if you get the complete kit it comes with a new Start,Pause,Reset button set, two new fire buttons sets, and a new keypad.

September 15

14 hours ago, bent_pin said:

Send the label but do not accept the return.

Ask the buyer to use the original box and packing material. Not critical but it helps.

Wait for it to come back.

Check the board.

If it's not yours, file an appeal with ebay. You have a 50/50 chance on the appeal.

If it is your board, accept the return, refund the buyer, and file a claim with the post office. You'll need the original tracking number and the ebay transaction report showing how much was paid. Take it into your post office to file a claim. They will issue you a check for up to $100 for the item, less the shipping cost. You have to turn over the damaged item, so it may or may not be worth it.

Interestingly a few years ago I had a 5200 sent to me for services and it arrived with pretty much every section of plastic haven't been broken in the process. The box sounded like LEGOs when it was picked up. I took video of my opening the box when I received it and notated in the video everything that I found broken in shipping. Apparently the owner of the console had placed $300 in insurance on their console. They only had to provide my video and a few detailed pics to file a claim with their local post master. They had a check from the PO in about a week for the entire Insurance amount. So while I've not had to file a claim myself, it didn't seem to be that big of a process for my client to get it all taken care of on their end?

September 14

Is it possible... that buyer might have swapped out the internals? I mean, you can have pictures of the outer case and SN sticker all you want. But if you don't have records of the inside of the system, then it would be difficult to know if the buyer swapped the guts.

September 14

12 minutes ago, GranitePenguin said:

My understanding is it's using a HOKEY, yes. I was asking more in the context of what a real POKEY is actually designed to do under normal circumstances (eg, what a broken one in Ballblazer would do). Since the HOKEY is meant to replace a POKEY, I assume it's using the same connection to the 7800 that a POKEY would have used.

The hokey is only replicating the audio portions of the Pokey. it doesn't do any of the serial communication stuff as again, that was all specific to POKEYs being used in the Atari computers and the 5200. The Hokey doesn't even have all of the pins on them as a normal POKEY since again, it only needs what is needed for the audio portion to work that it simulates.

So even if you had an issue with your HOKEY I don't think it would prevent the game from working and would just be silent when the music would kick in. The crashing you are experiencing with the game, I do NOT believe is related to the HOKEY side of things and is likely just something with your cart. Again, Al can replace it out as he has offered and go from there.

September 14

4 minutes ago, GranitePenguin said:

Interesting. I wonder if a removed Pokey would behave differently than a damaged one? I don't really know anything about the Pokey architecture. I guess it would probably produce garbled tones instead of being silent.

Maybe... I actually have a pokey I pulled from a 5200 that is bad in that controller functions no longer work off that chip. However, the audio and random number generator are fine on it, so I put it into a ballblazer and it works and sounds fine? So I'm pretty sure in the case of the 7800 games, that really only the audio stuff in the Pokey is being used. So if the pokey weren't working at all, it would likely be silent or possibly messed up sounds. But it could also be messed up enough to actually cause issues with the game loading too I suppose. Then again...I thought all of the 7800 Petscii cartridges have HOKEYs in them? Pretty sure mine has a HOKEY installed in it and I bought mine at Portland Expo last year.

September 14

2 minutes ago, GranitePenguin said:

So you mean at this point there should be sound of some kind (just not any music)? Prorok sent me a video clip and it's silent during this part before it either goes black, or locks up on some garbled tone

Yes...it plays a sound as the text comes onto the screen during this part. I think that part is TIA. Also, as @Albert correctly stated, most games that use POKEY are only using it for music/sound. And so they will come up and still work minus the audio even if the Pokey is removed. I've a few Ballblazer carts that prove this.

September 13

10 minutes ago, Zonie said:

Bump! LOL.

22 years ago. Hope it stays the same!!!

Yeah...I've been here... awhile you could say!

*just realized I've been a pretty active member here for nearly half of my life. Not sure if that is a good thing or?

September 13

8 minutes ago, BillVoet said:

Ok. I will check the long leads and solder joints first then try the CPU. Is it normal for the CPU to get warm/hot (I can still touch it) after about 5 minutes of being on?

Oh yeah quite normal. And depending on if you are running a 7800 game or 2600 game, then the Maria or the TIA will get very warm as well. That is because the maria (Largest IC on the board just above the CPU), handles the graphics for the 7800 games and the TIA (other 40 pin above the RIOT on the other side) handles the graphics for 2600 games. I actually have heatsinks on all four of those ICs in my personal 7800 console.

September 13

Interesting to see that late made A1 unit but either way. As everything you try is doing this, then I would start with the CPU and then the RIOT. The CPU is the 40pin chip in the lower left and the RIOT is the 40pin chip directly right of that on the other side of the board.

Also, in looking at the bottom PCB pic, verify that NONE of those leads off the components are touching anything else. Many times, those weren't clipped as they should have been from the factory and then later when handling the PCB and laying it on the work bench...etc. The leads can bend and start shorting on stuff they shouldn't be. So yeah, go along and trim off any long leads and double check the solder joints as a few of them look like they could use a little more solder on them. I would do this before looking to replace any ICs, just to rule out something simple.

The voltage readings look fine in this case.

September 13

I would look at the 6502 and then the RIOT...

September 12

Well, that was quick. I found an old 4 switcher in my garage I picked up years ago as a parts unit. Still had all the chips in it and it actually does work but all the switches are shot. Anyway, more important is that it had a fully working TIA. Popped it into this other 4 switcher and I've got proper response on all paddle lines again. So yeah.. apparently this other TIA has something messed up internally that can't read the full analog values of paddle 3. It can only see a 0 or 1 or equivalent that reads all the way left or all the way right. Nothing in between.

September 12

18 hours ago, BillVoet said:

Hi all. This looks to be a great forum for Atari tech. I have 7800 that I am trying to get back to working order. I am able to solder but do not have much skill as far as troubleshooting logic circuits. Here is what I have: The Atari will power up but I just get lines on the screen. I also do not get sound or if I do it is just a buzzing noise. I have tried cleaning the contacts on the cartridges but that has not helped (this is usually all I need to do for my old NES). Attached are some pics of the board along with a pic of the screen. I should also mention that the chip on the lower left of the board (CPU chip I think) starts to get warm after being powered on for a few minutes. Any help getting this back in working order would be appreciated.

Very clean looking NTSC console. Is it an A3? (Serial number sticker on the bottom of the case shell).

Given the screen shot you've attached there are a few different things. If it were the CPU which, you were correct about its location. Then usually when they are bad you just get a black screen. But you are getting some life or what looks like it is trying to get some life.

What game or games have your tried to start it up with?

Have you verified that the power output into the voltage regulator is good? Should be about 10v - 12v on average and you should have +5v coming out of the regulator. You can easily check the output regulator voltage using a multimeter and placing the probes on the large center traces down the middle. The trace on the left side is the +5v and the trace on the right is the ground.

If all of that checks out then as @bent_pin suggested, make sure you are on the right channel (I believe your pic has it in the channel 2 position currently). A good game to use for basic operation of at least some of the video section is the 2600 game Frogger as it will immediately start up playing music so you can hear if audio is working. Then again, you might not be getting any audio because the TV seems unable to sync to the signal.

From there it can get a little trickier but my first hunch might be to try a replacement 7432 chip. It is the 14pin IC just above the largest one there on the left and has Korea marked on it. It handles much of the video signals from the system and passes them onto the RF modulator.

It could also be the large IC as well, but that is why I asked which games you might have tried to help isolate that.

September 12

Yes I'm reaching out to see if anyone else has seen anything similar and to document what I'm finding on a strange issue I've got with the player 3 paddle control only a revision 12 4 switch I'm working on. Here is the actual issue that is taking place...

I use @Paul Slocum's test cart to verify full paddle functions on both controller ports for all 4 players. I do this using a single set of paddles that I know work and swapping them between the ports during the testing. On this console, paddle 3 will stay all the way to the left, and then as a point is crossed, it is instantly on the right hand side. There is no jittery motion or any motion at all. It is like a digital reading vs analog?

In looking at the schematics, there isn't much of anything between the controller port and the paddle read pins on the TIA. Just a single capacitor. I've verified continuity between pin 5 of the second controller port to C220 and from c220 back to pin 38 of the TIA. No breaks in that connection and resistance is never above 1Ω on average and I get the same for the other read lines, so the traces are good.

Using the 2.6 diagnostics program set in controller matrix mode with the controller plugs in place, I see the pulse on pins 40,39, and 37. But pin 38 shows low at all times. I've pulled the TIA itself as it is a Signetics made one and it passes in my chip tester pro. So the TIA appears to be good. But in posting about it in the Backbit.io forums, @evietron did confirm that she is testing all of the control lines off the TIA but only digitally so it is possible that the TIA is bad in regards to the analog reads from pin 38 and would still pass the test given that it does show a change in the paddle but not until a certain point is reached as I stated above.

So any others with EEs have any other ideas for me to try before I resort to trying a different TIA? I don't have ready access to them as I would like but I can remove them from working units in my collection to at least test or possibly from donors I have. Although there is a reason those consoles are donors and not working units being used by folks.

And while I didn't test it outright, I did go ahead and pull the cap off c220 and put another in its place from a donor board. No change.