Atarick
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Posts posted by Atarick
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21 hours ago, Mockduck said:
I have had the VCS for a couple of weeks now, and have put in about 20 hours with it. I've put together my review. No one should care what I think, but hey, that didn't stop me:
Great review, and you are the first person to rightly point out accessibility issues. Atari has to fix that immediately. Completely unacceptable. A loud fan, 4k, glitchy connection, maybe a software update can address that. But no console should go to market without accessibility options.
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13 hours ago, Mockduck said:
It seemed valuable to have a full list of the games that could be updated fairly quickly over time. I've also tried to include a link to the developer to learn about the game if possible, or a similar link if not.
I also put it in Google Sheets if you feel like grabbing it yourself:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1eFH448ndv6RSYbGXKGNHxm6zDH8HZLkWHFzGBEMOJ1I/edit?usp=sharing
Game Name Release Date Launch Price Atari VCS Vault 2 12/11/20 4.99 Boulder Dash Deluxe 12/24/20 14.99 Frog Hop 12/24/20 4.99 Guntech 12/11/20 24.99 Mad Age & This Guy 12/11/20 3.99 Missile Command: Recharged 12/11/20 Free for launch period until ___ Mutazione 12/11/20 19.99 Sigi - A Fart for Melusina 12/11/20 4.99 Sir Lovelot 12/24/20 9.99 Spear Master 12/11/20 9.99 Thrustlander 12/24/20 14.99 Unsung Warriors – Prologue 12/11/20 Free This is great, thanks. Just throwing it out there, and defer to you, but maybe there's an icon (like an asterisk or plus or something) we can use to denote titles that are exclusive to the VCS? I'm all for consolidating threads to relieve forum space.
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On 12/31/2020 at 2:37 PM, Atarick said:
UPDATED with above info, thanks all:
So far, as of 12/31/20:
Sir Lovelot (exclusive to VCS until March 2021)
Thrustlander (exclusive to VCS until July 2021)
Chaos Chassis (coming in 2021)
Missile Command Recharged (VCS version supposedly now optimized for classic controller and features new artwork and modified gameplay)
The Sandbox (blockchain-based virtual world that has partnered with Atari with some limited character cameos and licensing, possibly to include a virtual hotel and bitcoin; likely not exclusive to VCS but sounds like a special edition of some kind; coming in 2021)
Updated as of 1/7;
Sir Lovelot (exclusive to VCS until March 2021)
Thrustlander (exclusive to VCS until July 2021)
Chaos Chassis (coming in 2021)
Missile Command Recharged (VCS version supposedly now optimized for classic controller and features new artwork and modified gameplay)
The Sandbox (blockchain-based virtual world that has partnered with Atari with some limited character cameos and licensing, possibly to include a virtual hotel and bitcoin; likely not exclusive to VCS but sounds like a special edition of some kind; coming in 2021)
Boulder Dash Deluxe (New version of classic port optimized for VCS; expected Q2 of 2021)
Guntech (VCS version includes multiplayer option, additional levels, enhanced graphics, and gameplay options for VCS classic controller)
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1 minute ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:
If Nintendo really has the Switch Pro coming out this year though, then the only issue left is JoyCon drift (which also should be fixable). On the software side, they are massively supporting it, and that's without the likes of things like Breath of the Wild 2 and Metroid Prime 4. Of course if nothing on their list floats your boat, that's fine.
On the VCS 2 though...just the VCS itself has to avoid being the Ouya before anyone starts thinking about a sequel. One reason I threw out all those stats of successes/failures was to show that hardware tends to make or break a company. They might have survived on T-Shirts and lawsuits for now, but the VCS could easily cause them to collapse. Given how they've operated things, that's where I don't see how they come out of this on top.
Since we're speaking about teh suck that is today's Atari, behold the latest wisdom from their social media handlers:
Totally agree on these points. Atari needs to "stick the landing" with backers and pre-orders before they think they have some kind of a success to build from (the fact they could think this is a success, in itself, is mildly baffling). To your point about the Ouya, it is absolutely clear that they need to eat, sleep, and breathe in that discord with backers before they even dream of sending a second batch of consoles. If failed expectations and a perception that the juice wasn't worth the squeeze doomed the Ouya, Atari is rapidly careening towards that fate. But they have a slight chance to rebound. Not a sure chance, and the odds are frankly against them. But they have a slight chance of turning this into something if they take heed of the criticism and launch a better console at a competitive price with more games by mid 2021 and curry favor with existing backers. There is a path.
And the tattoo...well. Yikes. I feel like I heard a saying once: "No ideas are better than bad ideas sometimes". There ya go.
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4 hours ago, justclaws said:
Here's somebody else who has ideas about a VCS version 2. What about you?
BTW, I have no opinion on this. I'm happy with my VCS, and not creating VCS2.
However, it does seem with the expertise on this thread, a better console is coming,
which will make everybody happy. I've got 100 EUR put aside, to buy that console.
I dig the idea of selling the OS as a standalone around $100. Not sure what the market would be, but a totally low-risk move for Atari.
The inclusion of an 8 core processor in the VCS, along with additional corresponding RAM and two controllers, at around $499, would probably win over a lot of the skeptics, if the company could get their act together, get some games that fit such a system, and really nailed development and delivery. Big "ifs", but it would essentially be doing what they kind of already tried to do; a baseline system at X price, then a spec'd out version for a bit more. If a "simple" or economy VCS like the one on sale today went to retail with a single controller at around $275, then the spec'd out full package was available for like $475-499, I think they'd hit two markets in different ways, provided (again) they have the games or access to games that would be expected.
The next thing people criticize after the abysmal launch and somewhat underwhelming specs is the bare storefront. They need to address that ASAP.
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5 hours ago, Mockduck said:
Antstream appears to have improved significantly since I last saw it this summer, and it wasn't terrible then, although a bit unpolished. I've really enjoyed using Antstream on the VCS and coinciding the VCS launch with the year free promotion is kinda killer.
How did you land a free year? That's awesome. Everything I've seen placed the trial at 30 days. Glad you're enjoying!
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6 hours ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:
Well, technically you could say Centipede fits the bill as that was officially ported to the 5200 & 7800, although since it started as an arcade game, maybe it's disqualified. That did get a sequel with Millipede though.
This old blog article covers the subject pretty well, using the "expanded lore" of the Atari comics.
But if it has to be something original and unique to the 2600, then I'd say Yar or Adventure's dragons
God great article. I forgot about half of those, especially the Atari comic guys. I was just trying to think, I cant think of a singular Atari character that appears across more platforms than Yar. Maybe that would seal his lore a bit. Though my nostalgia for the roller ball and skating rink where I played Crystal Castles is pulling me towards Bentley.
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9 hours ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:
I've said it before and I have to say it again - I was interested in the Ataribox when the idea was first floated. Atari could have earned my business with competence and a vision. A collection of all Tempest games in one, some reimagined (but well-designed) classics, interesting new games, an Atari version of Super Mario Maker... fun and innovative ideas could have possibly got me on-board. I'm not so shallow to just throw my money at a logo though - I buy game consoles primarily due to the games.
But saying that the Switch is not a great product? LOL...are you kidding me? Please explain to the class how a system that is "junk" has become Nintendo's 2nd best selling home system ever? Here's additional evidence as to how the Switch actually is an "ultimate retro box" that you guys are now claiming the VCS to be. But then you proffer this nonsense:
You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.
I know my opinions about the Switch are in the minority. I had issues with it, I was disappointed, and I'm bitter. I'll accept of course that sales are stratospheric and Nintendo is laughing all the way to the bank. But it isn't perfect and I think Nintendo fans give their products a lot of leash in terms of tolerance and patience despite somewhat obvious shortcomings. Perhaps they've earned that. I've been burned mightily on Apple products and have a minority opinion on that hardware too.
I am no card carrying VCS fan. I am a realist, though. I was an Atari and Nintendo lover all my life and switched to computers when I was about 14 and largely stayed there. I had a 2600 and NES at home, then a Genesis. After I got a Tandy, then an HP, that could play games, I sort of took more to that. Point is, beyond the Switch no modern games or platforms (other than the flashbacks) made me think I needed or wanted a new console. Now that I have kids, I 100% was attached to the romantic appeal of something with wood slapped on it and an Atari logo that could play quirky modern games. My dad and I played Atari Skiing when I was 5 and I was hooked; I totally aimed to have that same experience with my son. But make no mistake- my nostalgic attachment to Atari isn't delusion. Like any company they have to earn my business. They aren't really hitting a home run on that one. This company is flawed, their community engagement is severely lacking, and the VCS launch was like something out of a dark comedy.
All I'm hoping for at this stage is that the backers are happy, that Atari SA takes their heavy feedback on board, and does better. Or, more realistically, brings on a joint partner or sells to someone who can. What this thread, if nothing else, has established is that there is a desire somewhat for a respectable product from a brand that once excited people. We'll see if that can ever become a reality. I hope it can.
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49 minutes ago, godslabrat said:
Just from a classic gaming perspective, the switch has a library that includes NES, SNES, Atari, Capcom, Sega, and a bunch of Arcade.
It's way more of an "Ultimate Retrobox" than the VCS will ever be.
You're also getting not-quite-totally retro titles from the PS2 era, and actual new games as well.
True. And it overheats, the controls lag, there are glitches all over, and the software is laughably incompatible with 3rd party titles. Also, Nintendo has essentially given up on support for it. They are as guilty of what Atari SA are (marketing a flawed device on brand name recognition), the only difference is they had a broader and more mainstream target audience.
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3 minutes ago, JasperAK said:
Atari finally found its market: the 10,000 people that aren't happy with the Switch or Do-it-all-yourself machines. They found that ignored middle ground. I'd also love to hear from a Netflix mom.
Something something taco.
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10 hours ago, Shaggy the Atarian said:
Lol, well Atari themselves already took the wind out of that sail of yours as godslabrat pointed out. I've never heard them call it the ultimate retro box that you keep saying it is - and use of that word "ultimate" implies the best and last thing in that class that you'd ever need.
It's primary function is to play games on a TV like a console, it's priced just like other consoles, it comes with game console controllers (one of which ripped off from the Xbox), ergo, it's completely fair game to compare it to similar products.
You also ignored that I didn't include just "mainstream consoles" but the Ouya - I even said as much that the VCS best compares to the Ouya in this situation. The Ouya was hailed as a historical success at first, breaking crowdfunding records. It ended up a gigantic failure, even after Alibaba infused $10m into the company. But either way, the VCS, the Amico, the KFC console, the new Neo Geo 2, are all competing in the console marketplace, whether you like it or not. Every device designed to play games out-of-the-box and on your TV are competing for similar entertainment dollars - yeah they often overlap as a lot of people are fine in owning multiple consoles at once. But with that much competition, and nothing other than the hook of it being an open platform, the VCS is not going anywhere far beyond the backers. That's been my main point.
So if you're holding out hope that the VCS will one day be the ultimate Atari system with official "plug-n-play" style support for games from every Atari console, well...who am I to tell you what to do with your time, it's yours to waste.
How many people are active on this thread? A dozen maybe? Pro-VCS posts have come from 3-4 people maybe, with the rest being against. Not a metric even worth using to judge how "excited" people are about it. I am on a lot of different social media gaming groups and no one is talking about the VCS. Just here, a tiny bit on Reddit, and the diehards in the closed VCS fan groups who think that it's the greatest console in human history.
How many people follow the Atari VCS on YouTube? A little over 13k, which isn't too bad, and is more than the official Atari channel. The Official Atari VCS Facebook group though has a whopping 584 members. What's Atari's stock price? Right now, an incredible 45¢. Twitter is their best place with over 77k followers, but I noticed something interesting about their highly anticipated VCS IS SHIPPING announcement...at 137 likes on a tweet that's almost a month old, I bet Atari is just beside themselves with joy!
There is a ton to unpack across these extensive comments, but I'll simply say this. Given your tone and expectations, it sounds like there was never anything Atari could have done in the modern era, under Chesnais or another person, to earn your business. The people who bought and or like the VCS are a minority on this forum, that's obvious. But let's stop giving the Switch a pass or calling it some great product. I find the Switch to be overpriced junk. Comparing the VCS as inferior to the XBox or PS5 or a superior gaming PC, fine. But the Switch? Woof.
Also, how is this less plug and play than a RPi? What are you comparing it to when saying "this isn't the plug and play console you're looking for"? There are now countless videos of people installing updates, a normal expectation for any PC or console, and doing just that.
The problem I have is that in one thread we unanimously concede that Atari is no longer (and probably can never again be) big 3, then in another judge them as if they are. I am not confused about what Atari SA, all 30 of them, are. They are trying to raise brand profile and capital to sell and further diversify their footprint in the cryptocurrency and digital blockchain markets. The VCS tied into that, but whatever. It wasn't shoved down our throats. They had an idea that morphed into a prototype and they limped to deliver it. The people who backed it backed it, and Atari did as many of us expected. I'm genuinely lost half the time on what is actually being argued in this thread.
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28 minutes ago, TACODON said:
Clearly the Kinko's money dried up a bit for now but from a reliable source I heard Team Savage is looking to buy out Fred.
Now would theoretically be an optimal time to buy, when the brand is profitable, small, and diversified enough to launch into a few different areas. Their current situation reminds me a little of BlackBerry, who struck out mightily with hardware but then turned into a privacy and security firm of sorts and saw their market share and profits recover some. Now, they are licensing the name to a company that plans to develop a new BlackBerry smartphone in the US for a niche target audience. If it sells well at a high price, maybe they explore a more economical option that can be more broadly sold and distributed.
If nothing else, the VCS got the company PR. It was admittedly a PR disaster until shipping began, but now that backers have their consoles and the broader public has at least heard of a new Atari console, it opens the door for a more composed set of heads to maybe see that as an opportunity. To riff a quote for an overused adage, "it's the games, stupid." If Atari can outfit the VCS with great games and a lower price, they may have something to build on. It's not a finished deal, but someone with good connections and experience in the industry could mold and morph it into a thing ready for a broader retail footprint.
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1 hour ago, justclaws said:
Another review from a more popular YouTuber.
This was a solid review, but he seemed a bit misinformed on some of the key features. Like he bought this and then forgot about it, then said, "Well it's a pretty box but the Ouya was launched kind of this way, so it's exactly like an Ouya." I won't dispute that there are major issues in how this has been marketed and presented as a piece of tech, but it was slightly humorous to watch him lament a lack of games while failing to actually open the menu to show the games that were available. By my count, there are now something like 18 new/reimagined games available for the VCS, 6 or 7 of which are exclusive, plus another 100 or so with the two Vaults and then Antstream, so it's not like you're stuck playing Frogger for the rest of your life with the console.
All told I was far more disappointed in seeing the total lack of content and support for the Switch upon release, but that's just me. At least this supports indie developers and has some play on both nostalgia and mod ability with the PC mode and controller.
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1 minute ago, Bill Loguidice said:
That's exactly it, though. The VCS is not an alternative to a Switch, Xbox One, PS4, PS5, or Xbox Series X and even getting "accidental" purchases is extraordinarily unlikely. Not only does it cost more than some of those options, but it has no native name recognition thanks to no advertising nor does it host any native games that might drive sales or otherwise attract attention.
There's also no evidence that Atari has any interest in attempting mass production, let alone the resources or potential sales to justify it. Again, going from 10,000 units to 20,000 units alone would be a huge effort, let alone starting to produce and sell in numbers that actually make the system relevant in any way. So we really have to see what happens after this first 10 - 12k units before we can see any path for things like accidental (or otherwise) sales. As has even been started by some VCS supporters, they already accomplished the main goal of delivering to their backers. They really don't have to do much of anything else at this point, especially anything that would involve risk and potentially irreparably damage the company.
I agree totally, I also have a theory here. As stated, Atari as constructed has no capacity for large-scale production. None. There are something like 30 employees and limited capital investment. By my rudimentary estimates, they sold ~15,000 VCS consoles/PCs/Hybrids during the IGG campaign. I suspect they may sell, say, another 7-10k in pre-sales, so just under 25,000 units total, as a ceiling. I still think this is a play to drive up the curb appeal of the brand and sell it. This would give Atari momentum, they have done a ton of work on the blockchain side (though admittedly much of that is way over my head), kept their footprint small, and have begun allocating capital for game development/acquisitions (per their investor statement and recent Chesnais interview).
For the brand, which has turned a profit for the first time in, what, 25 years (?), having the ability to say "We generated interest in a new console and had pleasing interest that we feel can be cultivated further with additional resources, potentially forming a competitor to existing systems within the next 5-10 years" is not nothing. But it won't be this crew. It will take deep pockets and savvy with developers and others. But I do think that the VCS is nothing more than staging for a target market they can use as a cudgel when they go to market. "We did this, imagine what YOU, Mr. Investor-Bucks, could do!"
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15 hours ago, Stephen said:
Which again begs the question! Who would pay $400 for the VCS? Who would pay $250 for it? Why would they?
I see the virtue, more or less, in both. But for a person who browses online and doesn't "get" assembly or purchasing custom parts and accessories for a Pi, I get the appeal of a seemingly "plug and play" VCS. If a Netflix mom is searching for a console to buy her kids and the VCS price is sitting there around $300 or so (I do think it will drop) with a controller compared to a higher priced PS5 or XboxX, and the price for a Pi, all in, parts, controllers, case, RAM, all of it, is like $130 less (I'm guesstimating), but the latter requires assembly, I see it.
Of course, that presumes that Atari is marketing this thing to that audience, and I see no evidence there is any active marketing campaign for retail, so...yeah.
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7 hours ago, TrekMD said:
Definitely more like this than a top down, such as Spy Hunter. I've also thought that for the plethora of driving/racing games that exist for the 2600, there aren't many that have a "plot" of sorts, like a mission embedded in the game or that alternate to other games within itself, kind of like Alien or Gremlins. I could easily see a Knight Rider game that is a cross between Fatal Run and Berserker or Keystone Kapers, but maybe with your avatar avoiding the enemy character to deliver a floppy disc or something. All set to a .midi soundtrack of the show and featuring a tanned blonde woman at the end of each level. Maybe a Kit feature, maybe you get extra levels when you collect pleather pants.
Yeah I said it. I think Hasselhof was wearing pleather.
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7 hours ago, CPUWIZ said:
A lot of people here, could have their kid do it. LOL
Oh I totally believe that. And honestly it's a fun hobby to do with a kid. But you and I both know that most people who might learn of the VCS at GameStop or Wal-Mart and simply say "Oh sweet, a new Atari" (how many of those people exist is an open question) would probably not be pacified by grabbing a Pi, assembling it, shelling out another $40-$50 for the CX controllers, etc.
If the VCS is a niche product, than a retro Pi running an Atari emulator that doesn't come plug and play ready is a niche of a niche.
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1 hour ago, Matt_B said:
You'll be able to run a better class of emulators on the VCS than you can manage on the Pi if you install Windows on it.
The latter pretty much tops out at Dreamcast/N64 in terms of what's playable, but the former ought to be able to run full MAME, PCSX2, Dolphin and maybe even CEMU.
That said, the same could be said for a lot of PCs you could pick up for around the $200 mark, and a lot of them will come with Windows, a decent-sized SSD, and have considerable more upgrade potential into the bargain.
That last point you raise is one that is a major obstacle for the VCS at present, amongst others of course. Some of the actual credible reviewers of the VCS over the past few weeks, who have had this thing in hand and have either attempted to mod it or add RAM, have noted how complicated and un-intuitive that process was. 10+ specialty screws, internal access issues to contend with, connectors to disconnect, located on the opposite side of the board, requiring some feeling around, etc. Not an easy feat for conventional gamers who can pay a similar price and get a huge bump in available RAM with a XBox Series S, with a controller and without having to fiddle with a screwdriver and connectors for a half an hour (or buying actual RAM to add, out-of-pocket). And it offers more games.
To me, the ease of use, game library, and actual gameplay/specs were the biggest determinant factors for me on whether to purchase. I am still waiting to see at least two of those concerns addressed by the updates or available suite of capabilities with this thing. -
4 hours ago, CPUWIZ said:
You can have that right now.
That's very cool. And I think, should the VCS ever go to retail, that a lot of people would see that as a giant pain and would rather pay the extra $125-150 (I'm estimating the VCS price drops) to get a cool new controller, a better looking console box, and the ability to stream new games, should they want. A lot of people would look at the fact you have to assemble and rig a Raspberry Pi as a waste of time. This is partly why the Flashbacks hit that niche market well.
Mind you, I love the Pi capabilities and think they're fun. I'm just saying "Joe Consumer" usually wants plug and play above all else. And to be fair the VCS has to address that as well (3 updates to install, including a BiOS upgrade? Come on.)
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13 minutes ago, Matt_B said:
I believe the Steam version is an early access one that's considerably less developed than the VCS release.
Also, with this being the closest thing the VCS has to a killer app, wouldn't you just charge what the market would bear for it while that lasts?
I *guess* so, but Atari should let people know that. Because I think more than a few have just decided to use Windows or Chrome to play the same game through Steam for $15 less. I do think the title has potential, and the version the developer showed last month on the VCS was slick.
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UPDATED with above info, thanks all:
So far, as of 12/31/20:
Sir Lovelot (exclusive to VCS until March 2021)
Thrustlander (exclusive to VCS until July 2021)
Chaos Chassis (coming in 2021)
Missile Command Recharged (VCS version supposedly now optimized for classic controller and features new artwork and modified gameplay)
The Sandbox (blockchain-based virtual world that has partnered with Atari with some limited character cameos and licensing, possibly to include a virtual hotel and bitcoin; likely not exclusive to VCS but sounds like a special edition of some kind; coming in 2021)
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Very strong H.E.R.O. vibes with this, so much so I wonder if the former's license holders wouldn't get miffed. It's not identical, but that's the first thing I thought of. I like the idea and think it could be a good one. Music might need a second look.
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4 hours ago, youxia said:
No, it isn't, because 389.99 USD is the price which you will see when you go to the official site and click on Preorder Now. If you got it for ~250USD then that's indeed not a bad price, but what matters for prospective buyers now is the price from now, and that's what it should be compared to and reviewed as.
I haven't seen a single review that leads with the price then dissects it accordingly. Whatever. It's a package price. The price is slightly higher than it should be but not absurdly so. It should come down, and I bet it will. It still shouldn't excuse some of the laughably uninformed "hot takes" I've seen in pundit world these past few months.
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Looks like the "Sandbox" Atari was worried a out confusion on is probably this: https://venturebeat.com/2020/03/27/the-sandbox-blockchain-based-world-will-feature-virtual-atari-theme-park/
This virtual world game, The Sandbox, will apparently feature a host of classic Atari characters and branding and....Bitcoin. Always.
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What Atari needs to do with the VCS in 6 months...
in Atari VCS
Posted
That sucks. Should I get one I think I'll pull a page from Super Nicktendo and use a virtual credit card (probably from Privacy.com) for the transactions. Won't fix all the security woes but gives me minor solace at least.