SwinginDick

Can't be one of mine - I've never made one with an encoder with detents. Besides, if it was one of mine it would be clearly identified with a label on the back. -Rick

Correct. Thanks! I've never seen a Jedi Jeff rotary. I've played with the idea of making a not-based-on-a-Jag-controller spinner, but every time I do the math, it becomes such a costly beastie that I can't imagine selling enough of them to make it commercially worthwhile. Maybe 20 years ago I'd be in it just for the fun of it, but with 3 kids and a career, I find it hard to find the time for the one controller I sell now. Still, this is something I keep thinking about doing, if I can figure out how to make it really nice for a reasonable price. -Rick

I had a brief posting "chat" with Minter about this. Apparently, the nuon controllers have a built-in ability to accept a grey-code encoder somewhere on the main MCU. However, the few companies that made the controllers never bothered to put the spinner on. The MCU in the controller is a custom part and (surprise!) no one has any idea where the specs are for it. Minter said that he had a controller modified with a spinner "somewhere" and offered to send it to me so I could figure out how to make more, but I never heard back from him. And, I really never followed up. For this, and for a basic B2K spinner, I was thinking about adding a simple MCU that would read the encoder and then modulate the left and right button inputs accordingly. I think I discussed this on another thread in here somewhere and was cautioned that it wouldn't work well, which may be the case, but I'm a pretty tenacious bastard and I'll probably try it anyway. Back to T3K - since the game is so insane (almost unplayable in a standard Tempest kind of way) the button-based control is OK. I'm not sure that a spinner would really help all that much, although there seems to be a demand for it. -Rick

Duuuuudes, Here we all are - the Three Amigos of the T2K spinners! Very cool. It's nice to finally chat with the two of you after all these years. My story (not that anyone asked!): I just wanted to tell you both (Jon and Tyrant) that you guys were a big influence in my decision to make and sell my spinners. I've sold about 135 of them so far (since 2005) and the response from my customers has been fantastic. Tyrant - you were the original inspiration; I saw a photo of your original modded controller somewhere and thought "Cool! Hey, I could do that!". Then I saw Jon selling his on eBay and (since they were coming from UK) were quite pricey. I thought "How hard could it be? I've designed hi-end audio gear with shaft encoders, and Minter pretty much describes what needs to be done in various articles, so what the heck?!" I bought a Jaggy and some parts and just sort of did it. After making a couple for myself, I figured there had to be a market for these things, so I located a steady supply of parts and went for it. Some thoughts on the thread (and your "spat", Tyrant and Jon): * The whole "G" vs. "B"-series controllers argument as a "differentiator" is silly. I've modified and sold tons of both types. Yes, the internal construction is different, but we all know the electrical modification is the same (at least if you do it right! ). Sure, the mechanical mods are different due to the extra plastic frame piece in the "B"-series controller, as well as the odd internal case shape, but these are details, folks - nothing a drill press and file can't fix. At the end of the day there is no difference to our end customers worth discussing, certainly nothing worth paying extra for. Personally, I prefer the "G"-series controllers because the internal construction is simpler, but no one besides the three of us cares! * Who got there first? C'mon, does it really matter? All props to you both. As Michael Palin so adroitly said "This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker and argue about 'oo killed 'oo". Guys - here we all are, the only three that have successfully built and sold these things. Certainly a small club and a good thing, no?!? Really, it isn't that hard to figure out what to do, once you read the interviews with Minter. I freely admit that I am the follower here, but my customers really don't seem to care about that when they get the controllers and kick huge T2K ass. * Tyrant - go for it! You should jump back in with both feet. I've had a number of sales worldwide, and in the UK in particular, so the demand is there. However, the shipping out of the US to Asia and Europe is really high. It would actually be great to have you making these things there as the shipping should be substantially less for our mutual customers outside the US. * I've used eBay Fixed Price listings for the bulk of my sales and it works well enough. eBay fees are highway robbery, but there isn't much else you can do. The same for PayPal - ridiculous fees, but no other viable alternative. I've also secured "distribution" with Dan Loosen at the GOAT store (www.goatstore.com) - he was buying lots of 10 controllers from me at a "wholesale" price and selling them at whatever price he felt was fair. That also worked well, so you may want to think about that avenue. It certainly makes it easier for you as a producer as you don't have to worry about order fulfillment, which can be a nuisance. *You guys want to talk about real innovation? We should be thinking about the following list of projects: * A spinner for use with B2K (exclusively or combined with T2K) * A spinner for Nuon/T3K * A spinner for T2K that won't actually commandeer the D-pad so that the controller can be used for other games I have some ideas for the first two, but not the time. How about you guys? So, that was my two cents, sure to anger someone I suppose, but that was not my intent. I'm actually really happy to have the chance to give something back to the Jag community, even if I wasn't the first one to the table.

CF would actually be more usable. The control scheme of CF sucks due to the fact that the programmer is treating the joystick as if it were a spinner. IT may actually work for that game. I'll have to look at that source code again. It will work for all the games but you will not be happy with the response......read you will rather use the joystick. Then you can just hang tight for Paddle Baddles 3D.........then you can have four player real encoders. Maybe SD can make simpler versions useful for Paddle Baddles 3D. Paddle Baddles 3D right now uses four VCS driving controllers using an adapter in port two. I use the DSP to read them all very swiftly.....here is my proto adapter.... Gorf - what do you have in mind for "simpler" controllers? By the way - love the rats nest for adapting the driving controllers It's hideous!

Jeff, How did you integrate the encoder (logically not physically)? I was thinking of generating "fake" short left and right button actuations in response to CW or CCW rotation. Is this what you tried? If this is a waste of time, I won't bother even trying - I am assuming that smarter guys than myself have tried this already -SD

CF would actually be more usable. The control scheme of CF sucks due to the fact that the programmer is treating the joystick as if it were a spinner. IT may actually work for that game. I'll have to look at that source code again. It will work for all the games but you will not be happy with the response......read you will rather use the joystick. Then you can just hang tight for Paddle Baddles 3D.........then you can have four player real encoders. Maybe SD can make simpler versions useful for Paddle Baddles 3D. Paddle Baddles 3D right now uses four VCS driving controllers using an adapter in port two. I use the DSP to read them all very swiftly.....here is my proto adapter.... What is Paddle Baddles 3D? A homebrew? tell me more....

Gorf, Agreed, there is a significant challenge. Obviously, no one is going to be rewriting the game code, so the next best thing is to simulate left and right button depressions. I think that I can use a couple of flip-flops that are edge triggered off of the encoder outputs to simulate left and right signals. The challenge will be to make sure that the outputs are long enough to enable reliable "depressions" when the encoder is turned quickly yet short enough to get a rapid series of them, although I suppose if the output is stuck high it will appear as if the button is held down... Hmmmmm. The other thing that has to be done is some sort of automatic reset circuit that prevents the outputs from latching when the encoder is stopped midway through a phase. Lots to think about, yeah? This will require some time to get right, if it can be done at all. The good news is, that if I can get it right for this, I have a fighting chance of doing something similar for the Tempest 3K on NUON. -SD

Not yet - I haven't done any actual engineering. Just getting a feel for the "market" first. -SD

Yessir, I am still cranking out spinners. You can buy one here: eBay Auction -- Item Number: 280189755410 or go to the GOAT store (www.goatstore.com). Yeah, I also saw the cart from SweetStuff4U - I hesitate to make the investment if there is no interest in a controller. Depending on the responses here, I may just buy it, though. That's how I got into this business in the first place .... -SD

humm,id be interested in helping you by lending you a Breakout 2000 cart. id probably want to buy a few extras too! by the way i think your rotary controller is very AWESOME! i love mine! great job buddy! Thanks!

Thanks for the offer - I'll see if I can find someone with a cart. Yep - still making the controllers, I've got a batch up for sale on eBay right now. Also, I think Dan at the GOAT store still has some. I'm having some trouble with my ISP right now, so the site is down yet again. -SD

Not sure what those games are (sorry!) - not too good with acronyms and I haven't had my coffee yet! -SD

Well, my plan was to incorporate some combinational logic to generate left and right button depressions for CW and CCW rotation of the encoder. This isn't too hard to do, I don't think. -SD

Hey folks, SwinginDick (aka chaos reins) here. I'm thinking of making a spinner to control Breakout 2000. Any interest for something like this? Also, if I embark on this project, can anyone "lend" me a copy of the cartridge for development purposes (since I don't have a copy of the game myself)? In return, I will give this person controller #1 free of charge for their trouble. Comments and questions encouraged. -SD