Tavi
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Posts posted by Tavi
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1 minute ago, Paul Slocum said:
They've now effectively missed deadlines 3 times since they're obviously not going to deliver in "weeks not months". Original delivery date was July 2019, then Dec 2019, then mid February 2020 ("weeks not months") and now they're saying March but it's looking like they won't make that either, which will be FOUR delays.
This 'third times the charm' missed deadline is going to be the one that really hurts them.
They already have the backers money, so they can ignore them and string them along as long as they like without any real consequence. It is missing the Walmart and Gamestop March 31st delivery date that is going to do some serious damage to their reputation and sales.
I doubt either company is going to take well to having their delivery deadlines missed after already advertising them to their customers and taking pre-orders; and also less likely to be forgiving and give Atari another shot at their sizable markets.
Atari has got themselves into one impressively sized hole, and I cannot how they are going to get themselves out. Snark and silence is not going to cut it for much longer either it seems. Eventually they are going to have to start answering questions about where their product actually is.-
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1 minute ago, CPUWIZ said:
The outbreak is far more serious, than you think. So some digging, it is already confirmed in 5 people in the U.S. and over 90,000 in China. Over hundred dead so far, Japan is starting to freak out.
Yes, it is not looking good. We have a few reported cases here in multiple cities in Canada as well.
It seems going on the honour system for people travelling here from China reporting if they are sick or might have been exposed worked about as well as you would expect it to.
I am hoping it will be like Ebola; with one big outbreak and once governments and WHO start to take it seriously, it quickly gets contained.
I had no idea China was that bad already, then news is not really covering it here other then reporting on the few cases here. -
1 hour ago, Agillig said:
Which would be a completely understandable explanation if the system had been seen in the wild and has been playing by non-Atari employees. The Polymega is a good example of this. Regardless of whatever issues they are having, it seems to be a real product.
I am sure Atari would love to have an excuse other then 'Sorry, we are still not even close to being ready' to give backers for the next delay.
But the timing is wrong. In 3 days every factory in China is going to be shut down for a month or more for their biggest holiday. This is a well known and yearly event, and should have been taken into account in manufacturing well before now.
So, the shutdown was going to occur either way. Now, if the outbreak is still going after a month (that is a horrid thought) then that might be a legitimate cause of unexpected manufacturing delays.-
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22 minutes ago, AtariLeaf said:
Well I can replace the regulator easy enough. I should have main caps too.
Still seems odd that one literal second is enough of a running start to push that heavy box
A second can be a very long time in the electronic world sometimes.
I am reminded way, way..... waaaayyy back to when Pentium CPU just came out and they required coolers. There was a DIY'er who had a video I watched on them.
Part of it was a demo for the people who wanted to fire up the system quick without a cooler to see if it would boot; before finishing assembling the PC.
He flipped the power switch, the monitor flashed, and he said '... and now you go buy a new CPU because that there just cooked it'.
In that instance one second was much too long.-
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He certainly did very well for himself, almost 200$ for a Intellivision II with a decent box and a few loose games.
He did have quite a lot of interesting items listed, I personally was watching the Suncom Joy-sensor controllers; but like was mentioned everything seemed to go for a premium for some reason. -
2 hours ago, MrBeefy said:
Also forgot to post my taco update. Pulled pork was great and the slaw combos were great other than I need better knife skills to cut the cabbage thinner. ????
Looks scrumptious! ... if perhaps a bit light on the sriracha for my liking I think? -
1 hour ago, JBerel said:
I'm genuinely concerned that this entire episode is turning into a tacit endorsement of a commercial product with willful censorship of any alternate viewpoint. Etc. Etc.
I would imagine if it was an honest discussion, or even just poking a bit of fun at it or Tommy; then it would not be a problem.
Howling 'FE is a scam! FE is a scam!' over and over in forum because you do not like it is not expressing or discussing a viewpoint, and mods finally telling you to dial the rage back is also not censorship.
This is coming from someone who always had been mainly Atari. I grew up with a 2600. Played it in emulators and bought several Flashbacks (until I got tired of them becoming obsolete every 6 months anyways), and still play my modded 2600 after work and on weekends.
But given the choice between these two upcoming retro consoles (or one console and one 'box'), I would go with 'the one which shall not be named'. Why? Because the VCS II has basically been a mix of a blowout dumpster fire and Keystone Kops since their campaign ended. It is not fanboi'ing to be excited about a console that looks like it will actually be a console offering some unique games, as compared to a system looking like a half-built PC offering absolutely nothing original.
It is eye-rollingly inane to suggest that Tommy bought off the forum in some kind of secret payment, in exchange for preferential treatment. He has been staying in his own lane (RE: his own dedicated forum thread) since he said he would stay out of other topics to avoid this very controversy. I am not sure how you get this is somehow special treatment?
I was made clear that this was going to be a verboten topic here, for both supporters and detractors. Getting upset because you tried to slide a sly dig or two in anyways and got caught out at it is not really a case for righteous indignation.-
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2 hours ago, Flojomojo said:
@MrBeefy Their response shows that they're not willing to set a trap for themselves by promising a date they'll almost certainly miss. They've burned themselves in that way a few times already.
They have promised March several times already. 'Weeks, not months' and including Arzt's interview just a few days ago ('March has 31 days'). So I think it is a bit late now to back pedal and say 'there is no firm date'.
Saying that, I also can see no possible way they can meet their March deadline. If the boards were in production now it would already be and uncomfortably tight delivery window taking into account the New Year shutdown and shipping time from China. That they are still fiddling with the board design right now means there is no chance the design will be finalized, produced, units assembled and shipped all inside of 8 weeks.
The only real question here is when Atari is going to finally bite that bullet and announce yet another delay to their backers.-
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1 hour ago, ColecoJoe said:
It's not a console
This was the part of this interview/infomercial that truly irked me.
His constantly referring to it as 'the box' and even pointedly stating 'It is not a console'.
Except that is exactly what it is supposed to be. It was promoted as a console with additional PC capabilities. Which is a far cry from being a half-finished PC (A Windows licence and additional larger drive need to be bought and installed; and potentially memory) which just happens to be set in an Atari themed shell.
If I were a backer I would be furious at this. The only system capabilities which have been displayed so far are ones that can be easily replicated by any PC or laptop made in the last 5 years.
With only moderate modification it can run Steam, AND Antstream. Be still my beating heart!
I have to say I can completely underwhelmed by what I have seen so far.-
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7 minutes ago, Mikebloke said:
This is the manufacturing update!
"While the VCS team continues to finalize manufacturing details at the factory, our confidence and enthusiasm coming out of CES was meaningful and significant, thanks to the positive feedback from everyone who demoed the Atari VCS there. We look forward to the day backers and customers will finally have units in their hands."
There are no units, there is no final product, there is not even a final design. Sure, Chinese factories can probably just "get on with it" once approved, but it still needs to be transported.
From: https://www.chinaimportal.com/blog/production-lead-times-in-asia-a-complete-guide/
"As Chinese manufacturers maintain a minimum amount of materials and components, purchases must be made from the subcontractors – which in turn may need to start production on their end. This is why manufacturers in most industries hesitate to set a production time shorter than 30 days. Then again, the production time varies greatly depending on the industry, and the volume ordered. However, in most cases, the production time is set somewhere between 30 to 60 days."
Production can also mean different things, including "not transported":
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Depending on the arrival timing, the cargo can usually be loaded on the next container vessel within 2 to 4 days. Obviously, the transit time varies entirely depending on location. Below follows an overview for a a few routes:
- Shenzhen – London: 29 days
- Shenzhen – Hamburg: 30 days
- Shenzhen – Los Angeles: 19 days
- Shenzhen – New York: 33 days"
There is also this helpful table at the end:
Tooling Production 0 – 60 days General Production Time 30 – 60 days QC & Compliance Testing Quality Inspection: 3 – 5 daysCompliance Testing: 7 – 20 daysShipping Inland transportation (China): 1 – 3 daysTransit time (Sea): 7 – 33 daysTransit time (Air): 4 – 10 daysInland transportation (Local): 1 – 2 daysTotal 46 – 180 days Presumably the tooling might be already done, due to the fact that a) they might have been smart enough to plan for this earlier (ok, asking a lot here) and b) its probably such a simple design that existing tools might be fine as it is.
This might be quicker with slave/prison labour which is currently rampant in China and might also save Atari money, but even so you're probably still looking at two months even after final design is approved before it reaches the Americas and Europe.
Thais has been brought up multiple times before, but it bears yet another mention:
Chinese New Year. Every year at this time every factory in China shuts down for a month, and absolutely nothing is being worked on or produced over this time.
https://insight-quality.com/chinese-new-year-factory-shutdown-2020/
If they are still 'finalizing manufacturing details' in China it is pretty much a given that nothing production-wise is going to happen now for 4 to 6 weeks.
As you pointed out, this is also before the potentially lengthy shipping time from China.
Even if the VCS II is basically ready to go into production right now, it will still be months before any backer would receive one.
It is impressive to see their demo/prototype unit actually showing some functionality; but they are still a long way yet from having a finished product I think. I just wonder when they are going to bite the bullet and announce yet another delay?-
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30 minutes ago, Serguei2 said:
More I read, more I think it's a pc in Atari VCS shell.
But again, I might be wrong.
As the only supposed functionality we have seen so far on the VCS II was it booting Windows 10 and then loading up Fortnite through Steam; and in view it is supposed to be released in just a few months, I think it is a safe bet to say this unit is going to be essentially a PC and not the advertised console with additional PC capabilities.
.. that is, if the VCS II actually makes it to production. Which is something I still question as by their own metrics they are still in the 'prototype' stage of development.
I also believe there are still no signs of a functional custom OS, or for that matter any hint of developer interest or console-specific games. Those are some rather large issues.
It certainly does not look very promising for backers currently, in my opinion.-
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Not that I am by any stretch of the imagination an expert on troubleshooting a 2600; but it might also be a problem the RF converter box?
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Even giving Atari the full benefit of doubt, and accepting everything shown in these videos of an operational VCS II is truth, what do you have?
It has no custom operating system, games, or GUI of it's own. It boots into Windows 10, and then loads/plays a PC game.
So, it is a PC. Not only a PC, but one as it is now that will require additional work and cost from its users (buying a Windows licence and HDD, time spent installing said drive, OS and games) to achieve the level of functionality displayed.
If this is what I was getting for 250$, I certainly would not be in any way ecstatic about what I just watched.
It does however bring to mind a half-remembered joke from when I was a kid; I believe a Wizard of Id strip? They were all trying to put together a horribly complex machine, after a lot of work they switch it on it starts shaking, and noise and sounds start coming out of it. One of them says to the other 'Is it supposed to be doing this?' to which another replies 'Who cares? At least it is doing something'.
Which is all the current backer excitement in a nutshell. Happy just to see a VCS II finally doing something, even if it is not much more then a unfinished PC.-
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4 hours ago, Albert said:
Bumping this again, as I can still use more 2600 and 7890 shells. One of my goals in 2020 will be to have new shells made so I no longer need to do this!!
Thank you,
..Al
Well, the timing of this is good; as I was just wondering where or even if I should post this (I did not want to spam the forums with 'Hey! Look at this auction' links).
But this one might be right up your alley? From the looks of it I would say it is a Game Traders clearing out all their 2600/5200/7800/Odyssey 2/Intellivsion/Colecovision cartridges.
You might be able to nab it for a good deal? Even though most of this is probably not shells you can use, it does look like there would be a fair bit of standard 2600 games in the lot (the 7800 ones might be of use as well?).
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Huge-Lot-of-Atari5200-2600-7800-odyssey2-colecovision-Games-Manuals-Inserts/124027969059?hash=item1ce0a49e23:g:tPUAAOSwsmdeCi-E
*EDIT* I did a quick count and it looks like around 127 loose standard 2600 cartridges in the lot. -
That is quite unusual.
Looking at some of the images, It definitely says 'Alpha Stick 3' on the back of the controller board; but googling that brings up nothing relevant (Street Fighter controllers and hockey sticks).
I would think it is perhaps someones own home creation? The joystick looks like a pretty standard console use design, but the connector certainly looks like it is intended to be installed inside something, and not readily removed/swapped.
The base looks very much like a Wico command controller (They also had 'TOP' stamped into them), but I do not think they made a two button version? Perhaps someone had modified one to be a two button joystick?
Certainly quite an interesting unit! -
Frosty and Chimney Test both seem like fun seasonal games to give a try!
I have not played Elf Bowling in years, I was surprised to see there was so many sequels and spinoffs to it.
A very enjoyable video! After watching this, I am now feeling the need for some Elf Bowling and Jazz Jackrabbit Holiday Hare! -
I did a bit of digging online, as I was interested in this as well.
I found one similar here: https://gamevaluenow.com/atari-2600/pole-position-error-label?gameid=614 Which suggests the typo cartridge is a bit more valuable then a correct one, but not by a huge amount.
However, both the cartridge error labels shown on this page, and the one on AtariProtos Label Variation Museum show a black label variant; I do not know if a orange label is a more rare variant of the variant, or not.
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That is a toughie, 1982 perhaps?
It was a 6-switch, and I remember my original games were Pac-man (which I did play quite a lot of; I was too young to know how badly it sucked compared to the arcade version), Haunted House and Stampede.-
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This is certainly quite intriguing!
I love my Harmony cart, but I can see the attraction to having a personal high scores list available for all titles and also for online multiplayer gaming.-
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8 minutes ago, toneinblack said:
There's some on american eBay but the prices are just daft.
Indeed.
From what I recall, most cartridges were going for around 100-150$ at auction. Looking on eBay, the cheapest seems to be around 600$ currently.
A little too rich for my blood. It certainly would be interesting to own one, but not at anywhere near those prices. -
3 hours ago, Lodmot said:
Lol, now people are calling me "whiny" on the indiegogo comments page, and Atari are responding to them.
For those of you that aren't caught up with the situation between me and Atari, I'll give you a general rundown on what occurred:
Early/Mid 2017 - I back around $370 towards the VCS IndieGoGo campaign. At this point, I was very enthusiastic towards the project, and going as far as defending it in the IndieGoGo comments, and even early on in this thread. Eventually I decided I would like to help the VCS platform out and develop an exclusive game for it. I began developing level designs, art assets and a game engine for the game. I ask another person if they would like to help with character art on the game, she said "yes". As this is going on, we're not hearing anything about Atari VCS (of course), but I continue to leave pretty positive, enthusiastic comments on the IndieGoGo page. I notice the amount of negativity surrounding the console, which prompts me to leave constructive suggestions on the IndieGoGo page. Atari never responds to any of these suggestions.
Late 2017 - Around this time I sent Atari an email at their developer inquiries email address. Once again, I was positive and enthusiastic-- showing support for the VCS while also approaching them in a professional manner. In response, they sent me an email basically saying "stay tuned", as if I was another backer (and not a developer). I didn't respond to their email, and decided to wait it out for a little while. I also showed further support by spending around $30 on one of their Atari VCS t-shirts (which they did deliver).
2018 - I continue to leave politely-toned comments on the IndieGoGo campaign page-- none of which they responded to. It might have been at this point that I started expressing some concern in the fact that they didn't show any games yet. Whenever I had surveys sent to me on the VCS campaign, I would always answer them fully. I also completely filled out the BackerKit survey and gave as many details as possible in what they could do to further improve their public image with the VCS. As time went on and none of those messages received responses, it's getting to the point where I'm starting to get a feeling of "getting the cold shoulder" from Atari.
Late 2018 - Still no news regarding developing for the Atari VCS. I attempt to look on their website for ways to sign up as a developer and found no such registration form. I think it might have been around this point in time where I was getting fed up with Atari, and finally started seeing the light (or the taco's, whichever one you guys prefer xD). I decide around this point to put my project for the VCS on hold. I don't remember the exact way I turned away from showing support and positivity towards the VCS, but I remember I was getting mixed feelings, sometimes swaying back and forth between still being excited for it, and not being excited.
2019 - Atari is delaying the project even further to upgrade their console specs. At this point, I wasn't really even committed anymore as a developer. Later in the year, I decided to make my VCS exclusive game a Steam release, and began continuing development on it under that basis instead. For a while, I stopped even going to the VCS Indiegogo page, because none of my suggestions or developer inquiries were ever responded to. Very little trickled out about the VCS, and right up until about September the console pretty much had no news about anything regarding prototypes or hardware, or the OS itself. Communication between Atari and its skeptical supporters is virtually non-existent. The company ignores anyone that merely questions their decisions, or has anything negative to say in general. I also notice OTHER indie devs experiencing similar frustrations as me:
Then just today, I'm getting called out by other backers on the IndieGoGo page, saying my comments are "whiny", and "Atari wouldn't want to work with someone like me anyway", etc. I don't know about them, but I personally find my lack of communication from Atari extremely unprofessional and insulting. Also, I am most definitely NOT the only person experiencing this. Atari should at least have the decency to write something like "We are pleased to see your enthusiasm, but we are not looking for extra developers for the VCS platform at this time. Thank you."
TL;DR:
Anyway, I just wanted to express my personal experiences and grievances as an Atari VCS supporter and (attempted) developer. Try as I might, and be as polite and professional as I could-- no response came from Atari, my inquiries remained never answered, and now it's like I'm not allowed to voice myself anywhere on their social media pages. Anybody that has tried to develop for the VCS or has had any similar experiences, I'd be interested to hear those.
It is things like this that makes me think the Atari corporate strategy is 'repeatedly shooting ourselves in the foot at every opportunity'.
They seemed to have been completely unprepared to actually design or build their own product. They have had a public falling out with those working on their project over not paying them. They keep their backers in the dark about what progress is being made with the project. The infrequent statements are filled with what they hope to accomplish, but woefully lacking in any detail on what they have actually accomplished so far. 'No news is good news' is not going to cut it with explaining their repeatedly missed deadlines.
As to their shutting out interest from potential VCS developers, I have my suspicions it is likely in no small part due to their not having much of an idea currently what the final hardware configuration or operating system is going to be; which would in turn make it difficult to give any information to those expressing an interest in developing content for their system. Regardless, ignoring those wanting to create content is terrible PR.
Also, it is very stupid. You would think right now Atari would be praying at this point for a indie 'Undertale' VCS exclusive to show up and carry their system. The big boys of gaming I highly doubt are going to have much interest in developing exclusives for a small, niche market. They might make some ports of their releases if it is not too much work, but if it is a title already available on other systems then one would think there is less draw to own it again on a VCS. It would seem to me that the smaller developers would also be their main developers for any unique content for the VCS system.
Honestly at this point I am just watching in morbid interest; not wondering if this VCS will fail, but wondering how spectacular a failure it will be. As per a classic Simpsons quote: " It's horrible, but you can't take your eyes away. It's like watching a monkey swallow a hand grenade."-
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As far as I have heard, the initial batch of 881 cartridges were the only ones sold so far. Lewandowski had stated he still has another 297 E.T cartridges, but no immediate plans to sell them.
You do see the landfill cartridges listed on eBay very rarely, but the prices are pretty outrageous (but I suppose a worldwide supply of just 881 will do that?)
Hopefully the other 297 will be released at some point and people can have a second shot at getting a bit of Atari history for a reasonable price.
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1 hour ago, save2600 said:
Huh? I don't see any Basic Math's selling for anywhere near $100. Performing a completed auction or sale listing on eBay, only see a $41 sale from a seller in Germany.
Sure, people are asking $75+ for a CIB example currently, but they_are_not selling. It's listings like those that people get to claim "that's what they go for on eBay"... ?
And remember, there's a glitch in eBay's unsold ended listings sometimes too. They'll mark something as "sold", when it really hasn't.
Rarity Guide shows $51 avg. for CIB. $100 for sealed.http://www.rarityguide.com/atari2600_view.php
I was looking at this site: https://gamevaluenow.com/atari-2600/basic-math?gameid=41
Under the 'Complete' Category (there is also 'Loose, and 'New'), it is showing a few auctions in 2018 from a low of 52$ to a high of 170$. The one from 2019 shows only one listing, but it was for 89.95$.
It is hard to tell how many are sales as compared to asking price (eBay seems not to keep records going back to the 2018 listings), but it does seem that people are consistently putting a surprisingly high value on a complete set of 'Basic Math'.
"All the fun and excitement of taking a math test now available at anytime in your own home, on your VCS!"
Hahaha, not exactly a winning sales pitch :D-
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23 minutes ago, discotronic said:
This is something I did not know and my first reaction was bull***t. Looked at eBay and wow you are right.
I did a search and didn't come up with the answer but why would that sucky and not really rare game bring that kind of price? I understand the whole what a person is willing to pay but this seems a little crazy to me.This is downright shocking.
A loose cartridge, or cartridge and manual seems to sell for around 10$. Which is not surprising as it was not that rare or popular a cartridge. But as soon as you have a complete box set of 'Basic Math' it seems the value of it jumps to around 100$.
I guess that makes 'Basic Math' the most valuable piece of this collection? I am absolutely astounded this is actually true, but reviewing eBay sales history for complete set sales it seems to hold water.
There must be some very die-hard completionist collectors out there!
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Posted
I am betting Walmart was going to give them a bit of shelf space, as retro is still in demand right now.
At least my Local ones always seem to have Flashbacks, My Arcade's and those 'classic edition' retro consoles on display. I could see them having one on the shelf (or in the gaming cabinet) just to advertise they do carry it.
Still, it seems something of a moot point as it seems a certainty that the Atari Box is not going to be in stores by March 31st.