Piotr D. Kaczorowski
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Posts posted by Piotr D. Kaczorowski
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I'm trying to find out what was said about RM800XL, but I spoke with a few people who told me that the information about the project was introduced between competitions, and they took a break and left.
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17 minutes ago, Stephen said:
Sounds awesome - is any more information available on this?
This is, in a sense, the most advanced planned project. The first project I wanted to create was SAVO. The next one was a sound card with a Bluetooth option for connecting a keyboard and a gamepad/joystick. This project was suspended due to the subsequent SAVO+ boards, SAVO MAX, HAVO. Probably before the appearance of the HAVO board, there will be a sound card. However, the new turbo card with integrated Antic is planned for the beginning of 2024. The preceding project for this one was O2/Fixer, during which I analyzed the clock signals in Atari and various instabilities. This week, solutions were developed to avoid additional licensing fees related to HDMI for HAVO. This will probably also affect the turbo card, from which the output can be made digital right away. I know it's a bit messy, but it's a mix of various things that are happening, including private life, business, leading the Rotary club in Warsaw (I've just finished that), Atari services, R&D research with various controllers, testing current projects and designing new ones, as well as continuously (manually) producing existing SAVO boards.
In a nutshell, I plan for the Turbo card to be 100% compatible with the Rapidus project. I would like the processors to have the ability to communicate with the first 64KB through multi-port memory. I would also like the 65C816 to be able to operate at full speed, but if it turns out that it will be an FPGA/MCU implementation, and not WDC, then even up to 120Mhz. I also assume that the turbo processor will be able to operate with video memory at its full speed, and the video card will have a digital output. All of this makes me want the processor port to remain free, and the entire card to be located in the Antic port."
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8 minutes ago, mytek said:
I forgot ...
I have Sophia 2. It is certainly a very good product, and Simius has made a significant contribution to the development of extensions for Atari. He also undoubtedly has more experience than I do. Nevertheless, I believe that VBXE is state of the art, for several reasons. The first is that it is actually 100% compatible with GTIA (e.g., it implements PAL blending), while Sophia 2 is not. The second is that it provides additional features, such as extra graphic modes and a native 80-column mode. The third thing is that, because it sits in the Antic socket, a turbo card is planned, which will combine 6502C+Rapidus+Antic in one place, providing modes: 6502C, Rapidus, Rapidus+6502C, Rapidus+6502C+Antic LocalBus (full-speed access to video memory). So the integration in the Antic location provides additional possibilities, and in the future, it may extend the life of our treasures.
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17 hours ago, mytek said:
Actually now days most new TVs only come with multiple HDMI and a single composite input(s) - no component. Component is a relic of the past, and unfortunately so is S-Video as far as modern HDTVs are concerned. So native HDMI output or conversion from other standards (e.g., RGB, S-Video) is really the best solution.
These are also matters of price. If sorted by price, it looks like this: SAVO CLASSIC < SAVO+ < SAVO MAX < HAVO.
Some people have very high-quality upscalers like Framemeister, so HDMI output will not be so significant for them. For them, an RGBs output like in regular SAVO will suffice. It's known that the HAVO board, whose price may fluctuate around $100, will not have the same functionality as the Framemeister. In Poland, the SAVO XE/XL boards started at a pre-order price of $18. The boards include electronics and an increasing number of elements, components that eliminate noise, and HAVO, at the highest quality, would also have to have fast samplers and image processing units, some parts on FPGA. Of course, R&D takes longer, which also costs, and this should be included in the project's expenses.
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1 hour ago, mytek said:
Well the way I look at it, is they had their chance and were given more than ample time to release an HDMI version. I applaud your efforts to rectify the situation.
It's fun.
1 hour ago, mytek said:It sounds like HAVO will give VBXE 2 users a more universal and modern video output option, and will be most welcome for non-European based prospects such as myself who have difficulty finding RGB 15 Khz monitors (no SCART over here). Yes there are some external RGB to HDMI solutions already in existence, but an internal solution such as HAVO will be so much nicer and cleaner and more likely to work correctly out of the box.
SAVO MAX will be an interesting solution for users in the NTSC region who often use monitors/TVs that have a Component Video YPbPr input.
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1 hour ago, flashjazzcat said:
So exactly the same result as running the existing RGB signal through an external HDMI converter, although an interesting side effect might be that number of people who'll have any particular reason to buy VBXE3 (whose main headline feature will be native HDMI output with digital audio) when it comes out will be greatly reduced?
The story about PlayStation goes like this... Ali G asked, what could be better than PlayStation 2? Of course, PlayStation 3
Almost the same with VBXE... What could be better than VBXE 2? VBXE 3... just like SIDE 3 from SIDE2 
I have been hearing about VBXE 3 for two years, and from Retronics for a year about FPGA replicas of all systems. I talked to several people about SAVO 2 years ago until I did it myself. On the one hand, I don't want to be the competition, but I do things that bring me enjoyment, learning, and a little money for further projects.
I strive to make my projects useful, which is why I extended the development of new SAVO boards so that people don't have to buy very expensive Sega Saturn cables (23 GBP - 45 USD + shipping), but I will include in the new version of SAVO (the one with CLASSIC and others): the separation of the ground plane mass from the Atari ground plane mass, a voltage stabilizer that will power a 1-gate for Atari noise filtration, and optoelectronic isolation of synchronization protecting against reverse noise from cord connecting to the monitor. I will also add an stereo audio mixer in the new versions, because PokeyMax < rev.3 does not have SIO audio mixing, and I will also add micro HDMI in other versions so that VBXE 2 works normally and you don't have to replace half the computer again, because other problems may arise, right?
1 hour ago, flashjazzcat said::))))))))
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15 hours ago, mytek said:
And since you are not generating the HDMI itself, I would logically think that there would not be a licensing fee required. But as I also mentioned, I'm not a lawyer, so I can't say that with 100% certainty.
HAVO will convert the RGB signal from VBXE and the sound from Atari (or stereo card like PokeyMax) to a digital HDMI signal.
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18 hours ago, flashjazzcat said:
..less than a year has already awarded itself a 'Classic' moniker...
I'm just a fan of Pepsi Classic...
Actually Jon, after all these years, you deserve to change FlashJazzCat to FlashJazzClassic more
The truth is that Lewis doesn't like it when the product name is changed to rev.2 - see, for example, Medusa..
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12 hours ago, mytek said:
Since your board has no active circuits ...
SAVO XE/XL were my first PCB projects. It was a great learning experience and a journey through the entire process: idea, prototype, testing, taking precise measurements of Atari, designing boards, testing, promotion, first sale, user response to the product, small hate against the product, creating documentation, distribution through RetroLemon, eBay, and Allegro. Over 170 SAVO XE and XL boards were sold. The new SAVO CLASSIC boards (aka SAVO rev.2), SAVO+, SAVO MAX, and HAVO already include active circuits, generating signals CVBS, S-video, Component Video YPbPr, and FPGA (in the case of HAVO). However, it is still not an independent device but an extension board. In the case of HAVO, I first have to create the device, and later I'll be considering the issues of legal distribution.
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13 hours ago, mytek said:
I believe the intention is to release it as open source via GitHub same as was done for their other Multi-Carts.
Ok. We should wait.
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Is the connection scheme between Atari Cartridge port and purple RPI2040 public or rather private? @electrotrains will surely finish the project faster, but the board itself, which has passed positive startup tests, could be useful for other projects.
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13 minutes ago, Overange said:
Of course not for profit product
Of course. We are people of science, and this is the retro lab
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I essentially share your point of view. In my opinion, it is worth creating a standard for modern-retro, called Atari Mega 8-bit, which would define the machine with 1MB RAM (prefered Ultimate 1MB), VBXE, fast mass storage, and a Fujinet network device.
As you likely know, it will be difficult to recreate chips such as Antic or GTIA in the form of NMOS ICs. Usually, these are 40-pin PCB boards that contain an FPGA implementation (ie. Sophia 2). It might be easier to use microcontroller units, such as STM32, ARM Cortex M0+ (like in RPI2040), or ESP32 S3, and these can still be supported by FPGA.
I'm not sure about the progress in creating Sophia 2, but from what I know, only VBXE has a 100% complete implementation of GTIA that doesn't have errors, and can achieve additional effects such as PAL blending or NTSC artifacting (though I'm not certain about the latter).
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10 minutes ago, Overange said:
5k USD for a license to put a logo on your board is interesting.
I think there's no need for any logo. It's enough for it to be a PCB that will contain the HAVO label. If the problem would be sales, I can give it away for free... Of course, to those who make a donation to the foundation (at the price of the board)
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5 minutes ago, Overange said:
But seriously, mini or micro HDMI output via the old RF port, with no drilling is a brilliant solution
Sign me up
Micro HDMI should fit the RF Modulator antenna hole.
In addition, csync noise filters and good RGB to HDMI conversion can be added to the HAVO board, as well as an audio mixer that will work with standard stereo cards, in order to add SIO Audio and EXT Audio as well.
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9 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said:
As someone who almost replaces the 74LS08 ...
Well, the first version of O2/Fixer was built using two 74F08 ICs. Currently, O2/Fixer is built using 8 1-gate components with adjusted capacitors, and they are not part of the 'FAST' logic family. Because of the 0402 pick&place assembly, everything is built on a small board that is a replacement for 74LS08. So... O2/Fixer generates the same functionality as 74xx08 without introducing extra parasitic capacitance, and also provides 4 extra twin BO2 signals (one of them optimized for Ultimate 1MB) that could be a source of a clock signal to Atari chips. This can be done using an alternative path - disconnecting the BO2 input from the motherboard PCB and connecting it from above to the twin BO2 signal from O2/Fixer.
I used a replacement of 74LS08 with 74F08, but unfortunately, SIDE 3.1 did not work for me at full speed in Rapidus 65C816@20Mhz mode, having VBXE and Ultimate 1MB on the board as well. Now everything works beautifully and stably.
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4 minutes ago, Overange said:
As far as I am aware HDMI Licensing ..
For now, I want to design and test the board. The board will not have any HDMI logo, as it will be installed in Atari as an upgrade. If licensing issues arise (I read about what you wrote), we will consider it. In the last year, through the Rotary Club, I raised 120k USD, so I know that there are many wealthy people who are simply willing to support a project. 5k USD is not something that exceeds my or our collective capabilities here if something makes sense.
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In the picture, there are two versions of the O2/Fixer - the regular one and the low-profile one, which I myself modify using, unfortunately, expensive low-profile pins. This low-profile version may come in handy if you want to install it next to PokeyMax. If needed, I can build such a version, but it will be more expensive (the cost of the board produced on pick&place at Lotharek's, new pins, and my labor). I am not providing the prices until there are interested parties.
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In recent years, many new projects have emerged. This includes both elements for improving the video output quality and mass storage - here various types of cartridges enabling program loading (SIDE x / AVG) and Fujinet (cloud / internet connection). An announcement for an Atari 800XL replica in an FPGA version has appeared (aka RM 800 XL). Although I live in Poland, where this project is being developed, I am not familiar with the final specifications.
However, I would like to ask you, what are the actual expectations regarding a new computer (Atari "neo-retro") or further extensions to the original Atari (Atari "modern-retro") ?
Please share your ideas, and maybe my friends or I will consider running such projects.
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Purchased yesterday for me by a friend in Chicago. Now I'm waiting for it to be sent to him and then shipped to Poland.
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5 minutes ago, Overange said:
FJC Video gives a good review of it.
Yes. The material is fine. However, this is a customer's Atari XEGS from the US, and I hope that the SAVO MAX XEGS board will function much better in such machines. Despite this, I am grateful that FJC made this material and was the first to dare to install the SAVO XE board in an Atari XEGS. I love John's videos, and his review is always rich in valuable tips.
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12 minutes ago, nasty niff said:
So you not have one savo to do everything? Super savo?Too many choices, too bloody confusing imo
Keep it simple
No. There are two different versions for XE and XL. Additional versions for 1200XL and XEGS must also be created, as we actually have four types of modulators in Atari. Each one has a different size and different mountings. This can be treated as one dimension. The second dimension is functions: a simple board, a board with additional S-Video and CVBS, and mainly for the US market, a board with Component Video.
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13 minutes ago, Beeblebrox said:
Just a quick question. How have you gotten around the HDMI licence fee issue which I assume was one of the reasons the likes of Sophia 2 didn't choose to go with the HDMI?
For the time being, I plan to develop the device. I treat this as a hobby and fun. I wrote to the licensor, but he hasn't responded yet.
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MapRAM
in Atari 8-Bit Computers
Posted
It will not work with Ultimate 1MB because U1MB holds some config data in that area. MapRAM is a non-standard Atari memory access, and most RAM extensions don't support it.