espire8

Hi, thanks for your reply. And yes, you're right. I feel it gives that classical 2-D animated feel even with just a 3-frame cycle. If done right, sometimes 2 frames wil do. Unfortunately, this dragon will not make an appearance in any game at the moment. And definately not on the Adventure II project as I hoped to see it in. (they already decided on their own version). I was thinking of hacking this image into the 2600 version ADV but I'm afraid I can't perserve the bobbing as good as it would have looked on the 5200, and I will lose alot of the details because of the single color pallet as well. So much for that. Perhaps I'll start a new trend concerning this and try to find a way as was suggested to me earlier so I can use this critter before he turns back into a duck. Take care.

I can almost see the look of concern in your eyes as you say this. "This poor guy is going to snap over these damn ducks". Hello Paraniod- I was going to ask Mr. Palmer if he could at least explain the point he says I'm missing before making his suggestion that I let it go. But then - here you came out of nowhere with a great tackle! :!: BRAVO!! I'm glad of your assistance here in sheading light on the pro-duck point. I just couldn't see it from the outside the way it seemed to me from the inside. Even Ron didn't explain his point to me, but I could'nt ask a busy man like him and he already gave me his answer about my dragon. I would'nt expect him to get back to me again --guess he let the pro-duck people explain for him. Anyhow, now I can see the whole picture, and I agree with just about everything you touched on. At first I was'nt sure who you were addressing as I found this reply under Palmer's message but as I read towards the middle, it was obviously for me. Thanks for being so thorough with your answer -which I'm sure was for me. I like your suggestion on Adventure 3... I'm gonna look into possibilities for that. Well, I will let this subject go now... permanently. I'm satisfied here. No further thoughts are nessesary. Also- don't worry about poor little 'ol me. I was only describing my inital reaction to my first glimps of the game. I did mention that I got over it ya' know. I'm not "going to snap over these damn ducks". ...*damn ducks*...?? Hey, ...aren't you pro-duck? Heh heh... Regards!

Hello. Glad you like my duck --oOps! I mean dragon. Thanks for the complement. At least someone can tell the difference! I do feel I was being too cocky when I first approched Ron with it though. I also think you're the second pro dragon I've read so far. Well-..umm-- the only reason I can see why others might want to keep the dragons as-is because they don't want to wait any longer than they have to for the games final release? Can I blame them? What I don't understand is why the pro ducks perfer ducks over dragons in Adventure II if they already had them in the original adventure? I'm going to call them ducks- that's their trademark, won't even concider them to be dragons. (Man, now I can't tell the difference!) I do appreciate that the square team trio is actually making this project a reality for those who remember the first game. But think about this now, most of the pro ducks I'm sure probably still enjoy playing the original adventure today. And the pro dragons who are tired of slaying ducks and have got their fill of it no longer play because there's nothing to go back to except for the disappointment of never slaying a real looking dragon. Most probably don't even know that there's a sequel in development 25+ years later. They are dormant out there. I'm one of them! Adventure II has been in development for more than two years and I was only recently made aware of it by a contest! I can remember it like yesterday, that kid in me just wanted to surface and the pro dragon in me has also been stirred from slumber with the possibility of finally making it's debut, making a call to me to don the square armor once again to face the true lords of fantasy! I saw the ADV2 box art with the big red dragon hanging over the little square with that familiar sword. "Awesome" I thought. The square is back!! Looked at the screen shots and liked what I saw but my eye kept searching. I gotta see the dragon! I want to see the dragon! Finally my heart sank in dismay and my enthusiasm almost entirely left me when I saw the dragon still..looked...like....a.....duck. It took me awhile to finally get over it, but I'm afraid there will be similar experiances like this among every pro dragon who first comes across this title. It may turn them off completely. The irony here is- the pro ducks get a second helping while the pro dragons never get a crumb. Don't that sound unfair? There's a pro dragon audience out there that may never be reached. How big that audience is? I don't know. I..just...don't.... know. This possibily is not a big deal to many but I had to get this off my chest -Thanks.

Hi, thanks for sharing that. I too would have liked the bat included also but the Troll seems to be the one who replaced the bat and I think the Troll is one of the most interesting characters in the game and the most fun to watch. He looks comical and I noticed he's walking around with no pants on! Anyway back to the dragon subject... you made a comment I feel needs to be addressed. You said: "..Adventure dragons are SUPPOSE to look like that!" I ask: Since when did anybody placed a restriction that "Adventure dragons are SUPPOSE to look like ducks"? Adventure dragons CAN look like however the creator wants them to look, limited to their own imagination. I was just letting Ron know that what I thought to be 'HIS' dragon still need to look more dragonlike if they're going to be named as such. How I'm I suppose to know he was looking for more of Warren Robinett's dragon look? --Take special note that I call it Warren's dragon, as I don't like using the term 'Adventure dragon'-- I perfer to give more honor to the name of the programer, not the name of the program. And I was not the first to call his dragon creation a duck but it does look like one. I was only asking for other people's thoughts on the subject besides Ron and his team, -- not their approval. Furthermore, I'm not afraid to disagree with Ron about what he refers to as the 'Adventure dragon' look. A "dragon" is a "dragon". It's public domain. "Adventure" is a "game". I don't know if Ron had to ask Warren's permission to use his *ahem* ducks but I don't think Warren would care. Although Warren Robinett tried his best (his graphic art was not as good as his programing skills), it was HIS interpetation of the dragons that looks like a duck, and ducks don't define AN adventure game... that's the job of the 'Square hero'. The game is not about dragons that should look like ducks! I do like Warren's adventure but I don't care for his ducky dragons though others hold them dear, and I'm not sorry to say that. | Also, Adventure II is NOT Warren's game-- It's Ron Lloyd's game BASED on Warren's original. Now I don't make demands or restrictions but l do have the freedom to speak, to disagree and make suggestions if I think it will help. That's what forums like this are for. However, Ron Lloyd is the man in charge of his project and if his team wants to pay tribute to Warren Robinett by keeping HIS interpertation of the duck look on the dragons, I have no problem with that, whatever makes them happy. I respect his decision. He knows what he wants. It don't matter what I or anybody say or think. He's not doing it to please me or anyone else. Ron is just trying to recreate HIS interpetation of an old classic game as best as he sees fit and I'm glad that he's accomplishing his dream. I share that dream in spite that those ugly ducklings are still in it. That small cosmetic issue won't stop me from playing the game when it's done. Duck or no duck, Adventure II will still be what it is... an overall better game than the original! So rejoice all you pro duck people out there-- that the 'square team' is going to keep in the ducks, but I won't be rejoicing with you on that note as I'm not a duck fan. Besides, I still say those ducks need a makeover. And finally, if you're reading this Ron, I'm not trying to cause debate over all this, but you are a free agent and I have no regrets whatever you decide, and you are still welcome to use the alternate dragon design I posted earlier... or I'll just keep it as a desktop icon. I like it alot. I'm really looking forward to your project's completion. Loads of success to you and your team -- Whew. This is wearing me out.

25 Years ago I'd have been one of the folks mocking the fact that the dragons looked like ducks. Having 'grown up' with them, the ducks now hold a certain amount of charm, and Adventure wouldn't be Adventure without them. If Atari 5200 Adventure had come out in the early 80's (& if Atari had known how to program them to look as good as yours, not necessarily a given), I'd have expected the dragons to look as realistic as possible*. Now, though, I don't mind a resemblance to the Mallard family, and it's sort of a badge of honor. 1031439[/snapback] Thanks for your input. I also don't mind the 'ducky dragons' on the 2600 as it could'nt be helped at the time. But that's not the case here with Adventure II. It CAN be helped. But in this case it's a matter of personal taste I guess. I did my own work on the dragon just to convince myself before I gave voice to any suggestion. However-- I did mind the ducks being resurrected in Adventure II. It's my only gripe, and yes, many think Adventure dragons are suppose to look like ducks, so they say, and as corny as they look I can live with it. That's where they belong, perserved in the 2600 and if I want to laugh at a game where I've been slaying ducks with the wrong end of a sword (arrow?) for so long, that's the system to go to. As for the 5200, "ducks" don't define an adventure game the way the "sqaure hero" does. Either slaying dragons or ducks, the square always is the center of any Adventure! The Bat was done away without problems, and does the game feel any less than what adventure should be? Same can be said for the ducks as well. No offence but I belive the badge of honor, in my opinion, should go to the 'square hero': the only character who actually looks EXACTLY as in the original. Although there are hidden alternate hero icons in AD II, you have to admit it would'nt be Adventure without the square! Too bad the 'square team' did'nt think about hidden alternate dragons... oh well. Thanks for your time. *(dragons - 'look realistic?' hee-hee-hee)

I'm excited about Adventure II but I think Ron's got the right approach to the dragons...they should still remind us of the "ducks" in the original Adventure. I do like your ducks, though...maybe you should work up another way to use them? Adventure III (Jaguar?)...? 1030863[/snapback] Hello Jacob. Thanks for the kind words. I remember you from the contest with the square knight in a box! I can see that players of Adventure II want to be reminded of the firsit game but there is already lots in there to do that such as the hero remaining a "square" IS what visauly makes Adventure II universaly recognizeable. I also love the cartoony Troll and Minotaur, but I do remember being slightly disappointed at the dragons still looking somewhat like ducks. I secretly would have liked to see limbs and wings like a dragon ought to if the capability were there. I had hoped it was just a preliminary fill in to keep the programing simple and would be improve later. So meanwhile, I decided to try the contest entering my own "Little Red Dragon" icon, my very first icon creation. When the contest was over I knew there were a way to improve the look of those ducky dragons , but how do you convince someone to improve an image unless you show them something better??? I did'nt know how to ask, so I made my own improvement first between drawing my comicstrip and working on the new dragon icon until I was satisfied. I figured this to be my small contribution in the detail department on top of purchasing the cart. I had alot of fun adding the wings, feet, ears, forked tounge and all. I figured it's a given once they see the results but before showing it, what I haven't realized until later that the 'square team' are already happy with what they have and therefore have no need for alterations. I don't blame them. I'm sure they worked as hard to get the look they wanted on their duck as I did for my dragon. What can I say? The lesson here for me is: It's not my game project, and no one asked my opinion about the dragons in the first place. Maybe I was too hopeful. Glad you like my.. heh heh...duck. Guess I'll have to find another way to use them. Adventure III?... on the Jaguar?? I don't think this world will be around long enough before that happens. Regards.

I__m_not_a_DUCK__part2.bmp A good question I could'nt resist answering..Haa ha !!

Hello Ron Lloyd, I just had to get in touch with you for a last minute touch up for the Dragon sprite image in Adventure II if it's not too late yet. Well, here's the reason- I liked the artwork of the dragons Dave Exton did in the pages of the manual you shared with us and I did a whole new dragon graphic design based on the very same artwork posted below. This was an early attempt but the likeness is all there and I even did an animated walk cycle of the refined version using less pixels (it seems more of a bouncing stride but looks really smooth at only 3 frames). Check it out right here: it's a little slow as the best my program will do but at least we get to see it in action. I sure would enjoy seeing this dragon version making it into the game. I don't know if you have any memory left or the time to do so but perhaps it would be easy to simply do a graphics face lift on the current dragons already in the game, although it would be nice to keep both versions. But if a choice must be made (if it were still possible), I would use Dave's dragon in place of the other. I know it's not for me to decide but you are welcome to use what I whipped up and make any needed changes. I was thinking you can give it a home in your project while I was putting it together. I still need to finish the attacking and dead dragon graphics which I could do in a day but I could'nt wait to show you what I have so far. I made a mock screen shot with the new dragons in them to see how they blend in. I was pleased. Take a look at it here: s_Adventure2_11.bmp So... anybody got any thoghts if it's worth the time and effort for this I'm sure anyone out there whose already excited about this game will be thrilled at the level of little details I put into this dragon icon including wings, feet, scales, nostrils and ears (sorry, no belching flames)! I'm happy the 'square team' trio are workiing hard on a title as this and making it the best adventure can be. Ron, share this note with the rest of your team and let me know what you guys think of my suggestion. It's in your hands. Keep up the great work! David -

Hey! That's a neat cover! I like the simple bold style of the artwork on the dragons here, and in color pages as well! Nice stuff Dave! The warped look on the square's perspective makes him seem to be charging the green dragon with his arrow instead of running from it. really cool! I can also see, because of the way it's composed, why people may imagine the green dragon to be a female. Notice the different style and shape of their heads although the red dragon, from it's point of view, may see it in other places. The green dragon also looks to have it's attention divided between both the sword in front and by the happy, ready to pounce looking red dragon from behind. (no pun intended!) I had it printed out as a Valentine card and my girl thought the arrow was pointing to a diamond! Don't pick up the diamond! ...Oops! 1014895[/snapback] 1015037[/snapback]

I'm just enjoying this trend after being away for several months and wanted to check on the Adventure II progress. I sure have alot of reading to catch up with. I did a short 4 page 'Adventure II comicstrip' based on the game that's being developed here just for fun and found it quite amusing for those who hate the Troll, concidering I started it last year and never finished it. I hope to find it in me to finish that last end page of the story before Ron and the 'square team' finish the actual game itself!... hmm, what should I do with the Troll now that he's airborne?

Here is a special treat for all who were involved in the "Ye Olde Adventure II" contest. I put together a down loadable award certificate for the three winners (as well for anyone who want to take a look at it) right here: adv_II_award_cer.bmp And, just for this particular contest forum, a 4-page 'COMIC ADVENTURES' tribute to the success of this great contest! Congratulations to the top 3 winners! It really is great to know that Ron Lloyd (aka: Cafeman) will also try to implement into the game all the submittions that made it in the finalist. As Ron had mentioned earlier, he had no idea there were going to be that many high quality submittions. Goes to show how many fans are waiting for the release of possiblly the most eagerly awaited homebrew title! That makes plenty of us feel like winners! Thanks "Square Team Trio"! The 'COMIC ADVENTURES' is a short storyline comic strip using game graphics from Adventure II as the artwork to fill in the page panels and features the two alternate character icon winners as they have their first encounter with the Dragon, Minotaur and the Troll. (Coming up with personalites and dialogue for the characters interactions was really fun!) I thought it as a cool way to share with others in seeing the icons in action in our imaginations while waiting for the release of the actual game itself. I reduced the file size so anybody can download them. They are broken up into 4 separate JPEG files for fast and easy transfer, each file being a page for a total of 4 pages. I have, SO FAR, three of the pages available to download here on this post,.. ...and the remaining last page, which i'm tring to find a good ending for, I will post shortly as I still have to deal with keeping the storyline from going more than four pages. I've also thown in at the bottom of this page a couple of down loadable test gag comic strips that I was working on earlier that I was'nt planning on posting because I thought it to be lame but included anyway so you can decide for yourselves. Enjoy the comic strips & check back for the storyline's conclusion! -DV knighty_night.bmp cartoon__I__m_not_a_duck_.bmp

Hey, I made it in the finalist! I also realized the name 'Rhindle' is already owned but "Little Red Dragon" fits nicely. I the blue knight is awesome!! He looks like he's out to slay my little red dragon! Yikes!

I am planning on using a several icons into the game, and a bunch of the rankings will make it into the game too. There's too many good entries on both fronts to only pick one! 929201[/snapback] Glad to hear that! Will you be posting all the rankings that was submitted as you had done for the icons for us to see as well? I have no entries there but I'm just curious of the number of entries as compared to the icons. Also, is there any date set as to when the winners for both contests will be anounced? Thx! -DV

Wow!... Some of these icons are surprizingly cool! they all are unique and fun to look at! ... but I know Ron will have difficulty deciding the winner. It's just hard to guess which one will get to be immortalized in the game, there are quite a few excellent ones! I can tell that some of them may have taken alot of time and effort esspecialy the animated ones! There are many that look better than what I submitted. I have my personal favorite from the bunch I would like to share with everyone, but I will not reveal that until after the winner has been announced. Okay, okay, I can't keep silent since many others disclosed their favorites already. I belive it's going to be a coin toss between Jacob Rose's square knight in a box and Juston Hairgroves walking blue knight. But if it were up to me I would love to see Jacob's boxed knight make it into the final game. Of all the entries his has the most character. I was blown away when i saw the all too familiar square and suddenly, Peek-a-boo! out poped the head and feet and then the pike... Very funny and inventive! and it fits the bill perfectly! Don't get me wrong. Juston's blue knght is flawless and I love the way he animated it so fluidly! I can see his entry making it into many other games as well as Adventure II. It's a very flexible design! But on the other hand, Jacob's design is more personally created just for Adventure II and I can't see it being used in any other game. Just check out the icons list link posted earlier by Ron (aka 'cafeman') and see for yourselves. Let's face it, there can only be one winner and Heck, they're both excellent, why not include both? I'd like to see them both in the selection if there is enough space in the cart esspecially if I'm going to be the end user of the final product. I mean, I don't even care about what I submmited but I'm surprized by some of the high quality entries posted just for this contest alone. (job well done guys!) I'm glad I was a part of it and hope to see others like it. My congrats in advance to the decided winner(s)! (one can still hope!) -DV

Wow!... Some of these icons are surprizingly cool! they all are unique and fun to look at! ... but I know Ron will have difficulty deciding the winner. It's just hard to guess which one will get to be immortalized in the game, there are quite a few excellent ones! I can tell that some of them may have taken alot of time and effort esspecialy the animated ones! There are many that look better than what I submitted. I have my personal favorite from the bunch I would like to share with everyone, but I will not reveal that until after the winner has been announced. Thanks everyone and Cafeman for taking the time to share all the entries with us. Now I hope to see all the "Quotes" entries! Quite frankly, I could'nt think of any in time to submit but it would be fun to see those that did made it!

You still have some time to enter. The entries keep rolling in, let's see, there are entries from over 30 people so far. Ron's going to have a tough time sorting through all the great icons and ranks people have submitted! ..Al 920901[/snapback] Hello Al. I just submitted the icon I've worked on for the contest. I hope Ron and yourself are willing to look at just a few more last minute entries from those of us who throw in there last bids, even if they won't be concidered since the contest just ended today. Thanks for the opprotunity however and hope to hear from you! I can't wait to see what all the entries look like! -David