Tissemon

Saturday at 07:04 PM

1 hour ago, aotta said:

That's what the metal shield around the Intellivisionmotherboard is for...

the shield is in there, both top and bottom. Doesn’t help though 😞

Saturday at 05:38 PM

OK! It seems to be working for me now after I changed the 1uF bipolarized capacitor for a new one. I don’t know exactly why because they were both brand new and I measured them with my Multimeter before soldering them in. The first one that didn’t work showed 1.14uF and the second one, that worked showed 1,16uF. Could that small difference really be the culprit? Anyhow - for other people with this problem - try different caps until it works ;-)

And also - I found out why I had so much grain in the image all of a sudden. I have my INTV unit on top of a VCR that the INTV is connected to with RF cable - it’s the VCR that makes the interference! When I move the INTV away from the VCR I get a nice, smooth image 😆

Thursday at 08:06 AM

11 hours ago, aotta said:

@Tissemon you don't need to add R6 in RTO pcb, i used it only for testing purpose but it's not needed.

Indeed, it's strange you got issue with polarized capacitor, i used it with success and some intellivision schematics (and the "II" too) show a polarised cap in reset circuitry

Update: I just tried my cart again without case, before I was going to solder back the 4,7kohm resistor on R6 and then the cart booted automatically! So firmware seems to be ok, it now looks like my connector is the culprit in all of this.

But anyhow, I soldered the resistor back, but then I couldn't get it to boot automatically - I'm not 100% sure if I didn't get it right into my connector or if it had to do with the resistor... I took the resistor back out and after about 10 tries I got it to boot automatically again. But the image has more grains in it than my original games. The R6-resistor should fix that, right?

Wednesday at 07:48 PM

38 minutes ago, aotta said:

Thank you @Tissemon for testing, but it's strange you got reset working only sometime, and never when console is "warm".

The circuit it's simple, the capacitor need to be discharged to reset the cpu, and that's why the cartridge ground it via slot's pin 12.

And, since the Intellivision II (as far as i can read in schematic) use a 4.7uf capacitor instead a 1uf capacitor, that's probably why RTOCart seems have more issue in resetting when used in a Inty II instead of in a classic one.

I have only two Intellivision I PAL console with new 1uf caps and both work without issue, so i can't do any test for helping guys with problem in reset, like you, but there are only two way in my opinion to check further:

1) hardware: the fact that original cartridges start itself doesn't mean for sure that your reset circuit is fine, since they have pin 12 ALWAYS tied to ground. In this case, charging and discharging timing have no difference, while in RTO the reset is software driven, and timing is crucial.

So, you should test the 10k resistor R15 if is good, and maybe try if using a bigger one (i.e. a 20k one) or a less power capacitor C26 (i.e. a 0.47uF - 470nF) could change (and how) the scenario.

2) software: the missing reset it's becouse your C26 capacitor can't discharge completely and setting reset line to 0V: maybe changing the timing in new ResetCart() routine, and i think in particular lowering the delay after resetHigh and improving the pause after the resetLow. I've no console with issue to test, but that's what i'll do in case.

Thanks for the feedback! First of all, I just realized that I took out the resistor from R6 in my RTO cart. Could this be the reason that this new fix didn't work (I've tried original firmware with resistor, jumped together by wire and now without connection at all). I should perhaps begin with putting the resistor back, or what do you think?

If that won't work, I'll look into my INTV and check R15 and C26. As I've said earlier, I've got a brand new 1uf BP capacitor on the reset line now. And before that I also tried with original 1uf BP (same result as now) and a ceramic 1uf capacitor (the ceramic also forced me to reset but added glitches in some games).

Wednesday at 06:17 PM

2 hours ago, aotta said:

@Tissemon and all other guys that had issue in RTO autoresetting, i attach a new version of RTOCart ino code that include a workaround proposed by @JaneDoe649 (thanks to her/him) on my github's page.

It should work with both Inty I & II and with original RTOCart board (without any hw mod).

Please feel free to test it and report if it fix your issue!

RTOCart1.1a.ino 28.14 kB · 2 downloads

Thanks for this fix, but unfortunately it didn't work for me. With this fix my RTO sometimes boots to the RTO-logo, but most of the time I have to press reset to get it. After I select a game I always have to press reset.
Let me know if you've got any other idea - I'm happy to test any software-solution to this "problem".

August 27

@5-11under do I understand you right, that this is how I should patch the RTO if I want to try your code instead? I guess I’ll also have to cut some traces - do you know which ones to cut?

August 27

I think I’m about to give up now. I’ve opened up, resoldered the connector and cleaned all pins one extra time. Didn’t help. So I checked all connections with the cart inserted - pin 2 actually had bad connection, which may explain why sometimes the cart wouldn’t work at all. So I corrected that pin in the connector and now the RTO seem to work every time I insert it. But only after manual reset. Tried with both the original reset routine and the routine by 5-11. I might try to modify my RTO-cart as 5-11 suggested some time later, but for now I’ll just accept that I will have to press reset 😞

August 25

Another approach: could my reset-issue be because of an issue with my connector?

On the PCB that auto-boots RTO I have almost never had any issues when inserting any cart and starting them up.

But with this PCB that I'm using now, all original carts work fine, but I have had big troubles getting the RTO to work at all.

At first, when I got it, it hardly worked with any carts - but then I bent out all the pins with a needle and all original games worked after that. But not the RTO - I managed to figure out that if I pressed the RTO all the way in, and then tilted it just a tiny bit towards myself, it would work. I think that maybe one or more of the pins in the connector touched two lines in the RTO cart and that could maybe be the reason it wouldn't work.

So I went through and tried to make all the pins in the connector absolutely straight, as good as I could. And after that the RTO cart actually works when pressed right in. At least most of the time. There are still times that it won't start at all after I take it out and plug it in again. At those times I have to take it out and plug it in again for around 1-10 times before it works. But when I actually get it to work and leave it in, it works every time after that.

But I don't know, perhaps there is still a pin in the connector touching two lines in the RTO cart? Could this reset issue be triggered if that was the case? And if so - which pins should I look into more carefully?

August 25

1 hour ago, 5-11under said:

The software changes are useless without the hardware changes. you'll either need to stick to neither, or both.

That's what I thought too, but it was worth testing before I do any hardware-changes.

August 25

On 8/24/2023 at 9:06 AM, aotta said:

I think the hw changes by +5-11under make no difference, to reset the line must go low (gnd) until MSync. No difference for 3v3 or impedance, since the pullup resistor keep the 5v on the intellivision if circuit isn't grounded.

But, his reset routine has different logic and timing, and he tested it with intellivision II (I'll probably get one only next month), so it may works better than mine.

You could easily replace original resetCart() function with +5-11under's one, and give a try!

I have now tested with 5-11under's Reset-routine, both with digitalWriteFast(RST_PIN,HIGH); and digitalWriteFast(RST_PIN,LOW); as initial value.

The cart still works with both settings, but no automatic reset.

The next thing to try would probably be to make the hardware-changes that 5-11 suggested, but I'm not too keen on cutting traces on the cart just yet... So if you've got any other ideas I could try, I'm all ears! 🙂

August 24

2 hours ago, 5-11under said:

If you go with my changes, you'll need to adjust both the hardware and the software.

Those three lines of code that I show separately... those are at different points in the program... I'm showing them because some are different, and would need to be changed. Find them, and adjust them (after changing the hardware).

Edit:

But digitalWriteFast(RST_PIN,LOW); //???????????

is on line 618 - should I change this initiation value to digitalWriteFast(RST_PIN,HIGH); ?

YES, but you need to change the hardware if you do this

/Edit

I'm sorry, but I still don't quite understand what to do with the code after I change the lines on the RTO-PCB.

#define RST_PIN 7 //GPIO2_17 was already present at line 109 of Aottas code. - Should this be changed to #define RST_PIN 19 ?
pinMode(RST_PIN,OUTPUT); was present at line 615 - Should I really change this at all?
digitalWriteFast(RST_PIN,LOW); - this one should be changed to digitalWriteFast(RST_PIN,HIGH) on line 618, right?

August 24

8 hours ago, 5-11under said:
The following lines are also in the code, at the appropriate locations:
#define RST_PIN   7 //GPIO2_17
pinMode(RST_PIN,OUTPUT);
digitalWriteFast(RST_PIN,HIGH);

Thanks! I just tried with your updated Reset-function (but no hardware-changes) The cart still works, but still no automatic reset.

But maybe I didn't do it 100% correct - I didn't understand what you meant by adding these three lines at their appoporiate locations.

#define RST_PIN 7 //GPIO2_17 was already present at line 109 of Aottas code.

And pinMode(RST_PIN,OUTPUT); was present at line 615

But digitalWriteFast(RST_PIN,LOW); //???????????

is on line 618 - should I change this initiation value to digitalWriteFast(RST_PIN,HIGH); ?

August 24

12 hours ago, aotta said:

Well, the difference is that original carts always tie pin 12 and gnd linked, while RTO drive the line to GND only when needed.

You could try a lower resistance to R6 (100 ohm or less), or even a direct link (a wire or a zero ohm resistor) only to check if in that case the RTO starts.

[added]

you could also try to change the delay time at line 710 and 713 of "ino" code: i made a lot of tests and the value of 6 and 2 milliseconds for the on/off seemed the best for me, but probably different values would work better in your case.

Now, I've also tested with 100ohm and with a direct wire on R6 - it didn't make any difference. I still must push reset for the RTO to start.

ADDED:

I also tried some more extreme delay values - 30 and 3, as 5-11 had in his code. Didn't help, but the cart booted when I pressed reset. That makes me think that the reason I couldn't get it to boot at all with values like 8 and 4 wasn't because of the delay-values, but probably that I didn't get it straight into my connector at that time.

But still - changing the delay values doesn't seem to have any effect for me 😞

So I guess my only option left is to test 5-11 unders solution, if I want the RTO to start automatically on my unit.

August 23

1 hour ago, aotta said:

Well, the difference is that original carts always tie pin 12 and gnd linked, while RTO drive the line to GND only when needed.

You could try a lower resistance to R6 (100 ohm or less), or even a direct link (a wire or a zero ohm resistor) only to check if in that case the RTO starts.

[added]

you could also try to change the delay time at line 710 and 713 of "ino" code: i made a lot of tests and the value of 6 and 2 milliseconds for the on/off seemed the best for me, but probably different values would work better in your case.

Thanks for the suggestions!

I just tried to change the delay in the firmware - tried to change them one at the time up and down. One value up or down didn’t seem to make any difference, but two values up or down and it wouldn’t work at all. So I restored the old values of 6 and 2.

I’ll try a resistor with lower value tomorrow.

August 23

43 minutes ago, 5-11under said:

Okay... so you're talking exclusively about capacitors within the Intellivision consoles?

Yes, the main problem with Intellivision (and many other consoles) is bad electrolytic capacitors, so I've changed all the internal ones in my Intellivision.

August 23

39 minutes ago, aotta said:

No, i mean original "cartridge", not capacitor.... do you need to test with an intellivision cartridge if it boot to the splash screen of the game without the reset button!

Oh, sorry.

PCB1 is the one I've tested the most - with original caps it would boot almost all my games without reset, but not Skiing and RTO. After recap, both Skiing and the RTO booted automatically.

The other 2 PCB, I only tested Skiing and some other games, and they all boot automatically, both before and after recap. It's just the RTO that needs a manual reset to start.

I just tested with R6-resistor on the RTO removed, but that didn't make any difference.

August 23

2 hours ago, 5-11under said:

To be clear, are you speaking of all (the bypass) capacitors, or a capacitor on the reset line?

Also, to be clear, the ceramic capacitor had glitches with Antarctic Adventure, and the electrolytic capacitor worked well with Antarctic Adventure? (I guess I'm getting confused by "normal bipolar capacitor"... maybe you meant polarized (electrolytic?) capacitor?)

I've replaced all the electrolytic capacitors (new electrolytic 4x10uF 63V on the PCBs with daughter board and 3x10uF 63V on the normal PCB. As well as the 47uF 25V near the RF modulator. And the 1uF Bipolar cap - that was the one that I first replaced with a ceramic cap and got glitches in Antarctic Adventure. I then removed the ceramic 1uF again and replaced it with an electrolytic 1uF BP, and after that there were no glitches at all in Antarctic Adventure. On the normal PCB, that is. On the PCBs with daughter boards there were still glitches, both with ceramic 1uF and electrolytic 1uF.

August 23

1 hour ago, aotta said:

Very strange, RTO v. 1.1 does automatic reset at boot and after rom selection, or when pressed button n. 3!

Do none of them works with 1uf bipolar electrolytic caps?

Do an original Intellivision Cartridge boot itself without reset button? if not, it's not an RTO issue.

And, i used both bipolar and polaryzed 1uf electrolytic capacitor in my intellivision and worked fine with automatic reset.

None of my three PCBs booted automatically without reset with original capacitors.

When I had recapped all three, one of them boots automatically.

Two of my friends have machines with original caps, and they also require manual reset to start.

I think I recall you or somebody else write something about the resistor in R6 not being needed - I've got a resistor there, could that be the reason why I have to reset?

August 23

Ok, so I've made some more tests now!

I made an interesting discovery: When I recapped the "normal" PCB, I used a ceramic 1uF 50V instead of a normal bipolar capacitor. That worked in all games I tried, but I still had to press reset to start the RTO but, more importantly, it made graphical glitches in Antarctic Adventure. When I switched to a normal 1uF 50V BP cap instead, everything works fine. - Well, almost - RTO still won't boot until I press reset.

So I've got three PCB:s that are freshly recapped (with all electrolytic capacitors) and tested with RTO now. All three PCBs seems to work fine on all original carts I've tested.

PCB1 - A PAL PCB with daughter board instead of color-chip: Starts RTO automatically without reset, most games works fine but glitches in Micro Surgeon, Dracula and Antarctic Adventure from RTO. (Original Micro Surgeon works fine)

PCB2 - Another PAL PCB with daughter board instead of color-chip: Require reset to start RTO and games from it. Most games I've tried from RTO glitches and can't get past select players-screens. Micro Surgeon, however, seems to work perfectly on this PCB from the RTO. Dracula and Antarctic Adventure crashes right at the intro-screens.

PCB3 - A "normal" PAL PCB with a dedicated color chip: Still require reset to boot RTO and games from it, even after brand new 1uF 50V BP capacitor. But ALL games I've tried works without any glitches now.

So I don't think I'll do any more testing now, as I've popped in the fully working PCB and put my Intellivision together again.

If anybody finds a way to boot RTO without having to reset, please let me know 🙂

I've attached videos from when I tested Antarctic Adventure and Micro Surgeon on PCB2.

August 14

I will recap the other PCB with a daughter board tomorrow and see if anything changes. If it still doesn’t work, I’ll just pop in the normal pcb and be done with it. Let me know if you want me to do any specific last testing with recapped daughter board pcb tomorrow.

August 11

1 hour ago, aotta said:

i did it while debugging, and the Teensy survived. I think double powering it's not recommended for long time use, but safe for some tests.

Ok! Now I’ve tested with 5v directly to the RTO as well. Didn’t help, unfortunately. Got the exact same glitches as before with the daughter board pcb:s.

August 11

Oh, never thought it could be a power issue since I’ve recapped and change the power regulators on the psu, but I have only got one psu to test with.

Is it safe to power the teensy on the RTO with 5v from external source while it’s in the Inty? If it is, I could definitely try it!

August 10

I havn't got the original version of Dracula so unfortunately I can't test it. I think it will work though. The recapped daughter PCB is the one I've done most testing on, and on that one Micro Surgeon crashes from RTO with default settings and Dracula gets glitches in sprites and some times crashes as well from RTO with default settings. Original Micro Surgeon works fine. And if I change the settings in RTO firmware to: delRD=422 + delWR=480 both Micro Surgeon and Dracula works fine on the daughter PCB.

So why don't I just change and leave at those values? I could, but then I tested Antarctic Adventure and I've tried A LOT of different timing values, but I can't find a combination of values to make that game run without glitches on the daughterboard PCB. So now I've got myself a regular PCB instead and on that one, all games works without flaw with the default timing settings in the RTO firmware.

I could run a lot of more tests, but I don't really have time to reflash the RTO and try a lot of stuff out with my new PCBs so I think I'll leave it as it is now.

But I am a bit curious on how those timing-values in the RTO works and why they have to be different for different PCBs when all original carts seem to work fine on all units (NTSC, PAL, Secam, Daughter board, etc.). Could there be a way to auto-detect these values based on the PCB you put the cart into?

August 8

I did some more testing today. It's really weird: Both the PCB:s with daughter board have glitches in some games but the glitches are not the same - On one of them I can play Dracula, Antarctic Adventure and Micro Surgeon from the RTO, but they all display glitches/crash after a while. On the other PCB Atarctic Adventure and Dracula crashes right after displaying the intro-screen. But Micro Surgeon seems to be running fine on that PCB (It's hard to see if it has any graphic glitches or not, but at least it doesn't crash, like it does on my other PCB).

The mother board that runs with minor glitches is the one I've fully recapped. I might recap the other one as well, just to see if that changes anything.

But yes, I think it's fair to say that the RTO, with it's current FW, is incompatible with this PCB-revision.

August 7

57 minutes ago, aotta said:

I see two electrolytic caps under the board, if I'll have to guess, they are the most suspected

I’ve already tried replacing all caps on both the logicboard and on the power board. And tried replacing both xtals. And both power regulators on the psu. Didn’t help.

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