Mercenary

I have the C64 core on MiSTer FPGA, I genuinely think was the most overrated of the 8-bit computers (for reasons previously mentioned), especially baring in mind the Atari XL/XE.

You wrote, "It's same as saying "Sam's journey is better than anything on atari, so c64 is better machine" isn't it ?! No, because difference with the games I mentioned is that they're games that shift graphics around in a way that pushes 8-bit systems to their limits. The graphics are pretty good for the C64 on the first game. But I don't see that as particularly ground-breaking. Just a well programmed platformer. The main issue for me is the sound is typical farty sounding C64 music to my ears. I find it hard going to listen to. It ruins it. After seeing the Intellivision - a 70s console - version of Super Mario Bros , it's hard to be impressed by an 80s computer performing the same game. The final video is sampling. There's videos of the Atari 8 bit doing the same thing. Eliminator, Buggyboy, and Turbocharge aren't shifting graphics around anywhere near as fast as Electra Glide. The colours on them also look dull. That's another issue I have with the C64 in general, as well as the sound. I'll do the video later.

It pushed the 8 bit systems to their limits. There's no denying which system handled it better. On a related note of system capabilities, regarding Dropzone, I found another quote from Archer Maclean earlier: "Squeezing the hardware in the Atari 800 to its limits and making it better than anything else then available. What was more amazing to me was the challenge of making it work on the less capable Commodore 64. It was a real nightmare implementation, but I did it."

SID is nowhere near as versatile for sound effects as POKEY. Objectively, it also lacked the extra channel that POKEY had was sorely needed at times. You'll see what I mean when I upload the Electra glide comparison video - as there's no engine sound on the C64 (I'll be comparing plenty of other games too). Many games suffered from SID having only three channels, and it was an ongoing issue for the C64 - either having to interrupt the music for sound effects (which I've never liked), or using only two channels for music. That's not cherry picking, it's in general. I also dislike the nasal and farty sound SIDS makes when it comes to music (and sound effects). And it often sounds much the same to me. To take it to a more extreme level, it's not cherry picking to say the ZX Spectrum - although unique when it comes to sound - isn't as versatile as either the Atari or the C64. Again, that's a general thing. And sound aside, when you're talking about games such as Electra glide and Rescue on Fractalus, they're games that pushed the 8 bits to their limits, no matter which system it was. Same with Dropzone, another game which pushed those systems to their limits, as mentioned in the Archer Maclean quote above. Most people probably base what they believe was best on what they had back in the day / nostalgia. The C64 sold more due to it being cheaper and heavier marketing. If the C64 had been given another channel to work with, then that in itself would've pushed the price of machine up. By how much, I can't say. But it wouldn't have had quite so much of a price edge over the Atari.

I believe Elektro glide game out at the same time on the Amstrad, C64, and Atari, rather than being a port. A game that looks like that really pushes the limits of the 8 bits. What stood out to me tonight, was the sound comparison on all the games in particular.

I will. I enjoy doing videos. I made an Intellivison one recently. That was very good for a late 70s console. The recent homebrew of Super Mario Bros is outstanding for a system of that time.

For me, the graphics are superior on the Atari. In regards to the sound, I compared a lot of games tonight, and the sound on the Atari was better on every single one. Be it the music on Alternate Reality, the engine sound on Pole Position, the list goes on. I'll put a video together tomorrow comparing both machines.

Elektro Glide is a good example of how great the Atari was in comparison to the C64. Not only how much better it looks overall, but also the sound. I never liked the SID sound chip. It's often nasal and farty sounding when doing music, and the sound effects generally aren't up there with POKEY either. The C64s colour palette always looked dull compared to the vibrant colour pallete of the Atari as well. On the Wiki page for Dropzone, you'll see this quote from Archer Maclean... "The [Commodore] 64 Dropzone is about 46k [kilobytes] long and consists of 15,000 lines of sparsely commented code with around 350 subroutines and around 3000 labels. Those who can reach Megastar status on the 64 should have had enough practice to attempt an Atari supervised Dropzone mission. The Atari, being the Porsche of home computers, is capable of running Dropzone 2.5 times faster than the 64 and can handle any amount of blobs on screen, even when you release a Strata Bomb. It is visually, sonically etc., identical and about 12K shorter. However, the 64 is still a respectable BMW316.[5]" You can see how the Atari was faster at handling games Rescue on Fractalus too. However, the C64 was cheaper and had better marketing than the Atari. But it wasn't the most capable.

The 65 / 130XE is easily the best looking of the 8-bit Atari machines. In fact, I'd go as far as to say it's the best looking of all the 8 bit computers. The ZX Spectrum 128k Toastrack is a looker too. Never liked the look of any of the Commodore computers. The C64 breadbin was plain ugly.

Why is it that most of the vast majority of items on the Atari website don't ship outside of the U.S? A couple of the Atari 2600+ cartridges ship worldwide (Berzerk and Mr Run and Jump), but the Outlaw cartridge does not. Why? Considering how much support Atari has had in Europe (it pretty much kept Atari alive in the mid to late 80s in particular), it doesn't look good to me.

I get that it can't all be done at once. For me, one of the more interesting projects is coming from Revive Machines. The Revived 800XL. That looks absolutely superb, and I've seen quite a bit of interest over it too from people. Something like that really should be coming from Atari itself.

What about a mini Lynx? Some guy recently put something together like that... https://retrododo.com/atari-lynx-mini/ A bunch of built in games. And that's a winner right there.

Revive Machines currently has an Atari 800XL revived system in the works. https://revive-machines.com/index-en.html Will Atari now push systems other than the 2600? Such as the Atari 8-bit systems (the XL and XE in particular, perhaps with something like what Revive Machines is doing), the Atari ST, and the Atari Lynx? There hasn't been much acknowledgement of those from Atari (they were mentioned on Atari 50, but not much), despite being a huge part of its legacy. The Atari 8-bit line was the most impressive of the 8-bit systems overall, the ST was a very well received and supported 16 bit machine, and the Atari Lynx was truly impressive, innovative, and ahead of its time. I'd really like to see these legacy systems get more love from Atari. They certainly have their fanbases.

Lynx 1.

On the screen where it says "Mattel Electronics", whenever I see this on the internet (and on my MiSTer FPGA), it's always a kind of green looking colour. And yet, on my Intellivision console, it's always a dark brown. Is that a difference between Intellivisions that were released in the UK (or Europe) and North American Intellivisions?