rhindle

I don't really see how your comments are trying to determine the amount of dissatisfaction I have had in this experience. How does saying that you are going to add me to an imaginary list of paritally satisfied customers or you are going to let me keep a faulty product accomplish this? There is nothing more I want or expect from you, I just didn't appreciate the way you have tried to 'quantify' my negative experience here. You are indeed entitled to your opinions and observations just as I am, but since this is happening in a public forum where I assume you are wanting to do business it just doesn't seem like a very smart thing to do. Anyway, no hard feelings. I'm sure I probably just had an unlucky experience. To summarize (and hopefully finalize) my experience and satisfaction: 1) After getting a faulty mod board replaced the composite worked great and PQ is as good as you would expect from a composite output. You will be satisfied if you are looking for excellent composite PQ and easy installation. 2) S-video adapter didn't work with my HDTV. This was made aware to me only after I purchased it, but I was offered a full refund. There should be a disclaimer on the website that this mod and s-video adapter may not work at all with digital and HDTVs (per what 8bitdomain told me in an email). 3) Overall slow response from ordering and receiving the product (although my replacement mod board did get here promptly) and no order confirmation emails. This was in December and January so that may be part of the problem with the holidays and all. Just looking at the composite PQ and ignoring the fact that I had a bad mod board to start with and the s-video doesn't work with my TV I would say I am satisfied with the mod. I think if the service was sped up (confirmation emails at least) and there was a disclaimer on the site mentioning the mod board/s-video adapter may not work with digital and/or HDTVs I would have been extremely satisfied. No hard feelings Mike. I'm ready to move on and play Atari. Rhindle

Great! I will add you to my new list of partially-satisfactory sellers. It's pretty amazing that you are now being a smart-ass toward me, a recent customer that spent his hard-earned money on your product that didn't work as advertised and shared it with this community for their benefit. I think your comments here speak for themselves to future potential customers. It's hard to believe this is coming from someone that actually wants people in these forums to do business with them. Rhindle

Finally a kind word from one of the hundreds of 8bitdomain's satisified customers. Believe it or not we actually get it right far more often then not. 1007450[/snapback] I think I was being fair and honest with my experience Mike and I will be the first one to give credit where credit is due. If you re-read some of my posts here I gave it up when you deserved it (composite looks great after replacement mod board and you offered a full refund after the svideo was not working with my HDTV) and was critical when you deserved it (slow response, no disclaimer about the mod possibly not working with HDTVs, no order confirmation and I shouldn't have to remind you to ship the products I ordered and paid for 10 days prior with no communication from you). I have given you credit where it is due and critism as well. I guess I am one of the unlucky customers that didn't have a great experience like hundreds of others apparently have. But that's life I guess. All in all I think it's clear that I have many valid and legitimate reasons to not see 8bitdomain in the highest light based on my experiences documented in this thread. Even so, with all the problems I've had I will still recommend this mod as I will not deny the PQ and ease of installation is excellent. If you get a good one that is... Rhindle

I wish I had an analog TV to test this on...

Well, I spoke too soon about this being a good ending... I assume 8bitdomain will be reading this post, but I feel obligated to share this experience with the 2600 community with honesty and respectfulness. I guess I got 'greedy' and decided to get the svideo connector from 8bitdomain since they were tauting it to be 'an order of magnitude' better in PQ. I finally received the adapter 2 1/2 weeks after ordering it after having to send a couple of emails to 'remind' them to send the part. I thought I was finally going to be in 21st century 2600 bliss with svideo picture quality when instead I got vertical lines up and down the entire screen. Seeing there are only two ways to connect the adapter to the chroma and luma cables, only one way produced a picture and unfortunately the picture was as described above. I tried two different svideo cables on two different inputs on my TV that work perfectly with other devices. Beyond the vertical lines the top and bottom of the screen changed colors as well. Not good. You can still see the game and you can tell there is a great deal of clarity well beyond the composite output, but again, marred by vertical lines and discoloration near the top and bottom of the screen. With great disappointment I emailed 8bitdomain to describe the problem. Remember, this after I have already had a replacement mod board sent out to me as the first one didn't work right. This is where things got interesting... I was told that the 2600 mod board will NOT work and is NOT supported on digital TVs (LCD and HDTVs were specifically mentioned). The most ironic thing about this statement is when I first reported problems with my first mod they asked what kind of TV I had and told them I had a 65" Mitsubishi HDTV! Wouldn't you think if HDTVs were not supported and would not work they would not have bothered to send me a replacement mod? Which ended up WORKING?!?! And of course the most obvious question is why isn't this mentioned ANYWHERE on their website? It seems to me with the popularity of digital TVs that a disclaimer mentioning this mod not being supported and will NOT work on a digital TV would be in order. Funny thing is, the first mod didn't work but the second one works fine with the composite. Am I just lucky? Doesn't make sense to me. It appears I am out of luck now getting the svideo to work since I have an HDTV and this is not supported (and according to 8bitdomain should NOT work at all but works fine with the composite after receiving a replacement mod). The composite works fine and the PQ is much improved over the RF so I will keep the mod. They did say I could just return everything for a refund so I will give them credit there. It appears everyone here that mentioned their customer service was poor is right as that was pretty much my experience. Although they did get my replacement mod out to me it took at least 2 emails to remind them and it took 2 emails to get them to send me the svideo cable after paying for it. You get NO confirmation when ordering anything from them, but you will see the money being taken out of your account if you check your PayPal. I wonder how long it would have taken to get the part if I never would have sent an email. It was 10 DAYS after I placed the order when I had sent my SECOND email to see what was going on and I finally got a reply telling me it was going to be shipped the next day. Seems to me it could have easily been forgotten about entirely. To see money being taken out of your account with not even a confirmation email that you even bought anything while 10 DAYS has gone by and TWO emails sent is in my opinion way behind the times as practically every website I've ever ordered anything from (even very small sites) will at least confirm your order and I have never had to 'remind' them to send me what I bought and paid for. I know I'm ranting, but I'm trying to be honest but respectful at the same time. You would think a company with this kind of niche market would take the time to take care of customers, especially knowing they have a thread here at AtariAge (they have PM'd me a few times regarding this thread) and there are relatively few people (outside this community) that would buy something like this. What a great opportunity missed by 8bitdomain for some good, free advertising by 'word of mouth' in this forum as I am quick to praise, but I try to be slow to anger. Yes, I am angry now, but I think with very good reason. In closing I will say if you plan on purchasing the 2600 mod from 8bitdomain be aware that apparently you MUST have an analog TV to expect it to work and get support on it (you will not find any information about this on their website or documentation however) and you should also plan on sending plenty of emails to them to 'remind' them to send you the product you paid for. To be fair I will say the quality of the mod via the composite is far superior to RF (albiet with a fair amount of ghosting) and is worth the money. I'm sure the svideo PQ is excellent, but sadly it does not work for me on my HDTV for whatever reason. In the long run I don't know if it was worth all the trouble, but if you want good PQ with the composite with an easy mod with no soldering 8bitdomain will get you there, but there will probably be bumps in the road. Rhindle

I am happy to report that after receiving a replacement chip all is working great! Apparently I was lucky enough to receive a faulty chip as 8bitdomain told me they have only had one other bad one in 2 years. Oh well, I'm just glad all is working properly now. The mod does look GREAT! SOOOOO much better than RF. I'm very pleased with the quality of the mod and would recommend it if anyone is considering it. I started this thread for that very reason, to get some feedback on the quality. There is some slight ghosting, but nothing I wouldn't consider abnormal for a composite connection. Makes me wonder about the svideo now... I may order it just to see what the difference in quality is. Kudos to 8bitdomain for promptly shipping out a replacement chip after a second email I had sent to get the next step for resolving the problem. It was the week of Christmas so I think some slack can be cut for having to send two emails instead of just one. I'm sure under normal circumstances they would have responded sooner. Thanks to A.J. also that allowed me to speak intelligently when describing my problem that helped get a replacement chip sent out since clearly there was no other possible cause after I had described my symptoms. Thanks to everyone that provided any input in this thread and hopefully this thread will be able to help someone else in the future. Time to play Kaboom! Rhindle

A.J., The mod has a composite output and it also has the chroma and luma outputs for the optional svideo adapter. I did not order the svideo adapter as I only really cared for the composite output anyway. I was thinking about getting it at a later date if there was a big difference in quality, but I was having a hard enough time finding anyone who has used this mod at all much less how the svideo compared to the composite. I did get an email back from them yesterday saying they will send me out another chip. Since the composite looks exactly like the chroma output you are right again that it appears the chroma and luma are not being combined on the composite output. I even bought a Y splitter with dual female RCAs on one end and a male RCA on the other end to try to combine them myself. Hehe, it was not pretty confirming even more so that the luma output is messed up as you brought to my attention. I'll keep this thread posted with the rest of my Adventure with this 8bitdomain mod (just in case here it is http://www.8bitdomain.com/about2600_4.php) Thanks again A.J. Rhindle

Thanks a bunch A.J., I think you just summed it up and identified my problem. The luma signal appears black and white, but 'garbled' as in the screen rolls diagonally I guess you could say while distorted. You can tell there is a game on the screen, but just barely as the picture is rolling and is, well, 'messed up' looking. That must be my problem as the composite looks exaclty like the chroma and the luma is 'messed up'. You're totally right in describing exactly what I'm seeing. All the color information, but without the brightness information. If I look at Air Sea Battle in black and white you only see black and white with no greys at all. Man, thanks a lot for the explaination. I'm pretty disappointed that I still haven't heard anything from 8bitdomain in almost 5 days now after multiple emails to their sales address and techsupport address. I know its Christmas and all, but sheesh. I wonder what they will eventually do. I can't connect the wires or put the chip in any 'better' than I have already. It's just not working right and the luma is the problem. Thanks again A.J. for finally clearing this up for me. Makes total sense now. Let's just hope 8bitdomain steps up and takes care of this. I'll update this thread when it finally gets resolved. Thanks! Rhindle

Gotcha. So it appears my problem is different then as none of mine work right at all. Oh well, now the test of 8bitdomain support. We'll see how it goes... Thanks for your help Narf! Rhindle

Hmmm... I don't have the svideo adapter as I didn't order it and I can't find it locally. I tried all three of course to the composite/RCA video input on my TV and none work correctly. I figured out (well, kinda) which wires go to which RCA. I kept the ground wire on and touched each wire to each contact and figured out what was what. Not that it helped or anything because nothing works right. The yellow wire is the yellow RCA and then the purple and blue are red and white (forgot which is which but again doesn't matter). Narf! did yours work with just the composite input or did you have to use the svideo adapter? Sounds like you ordered the svideo adapter and used it and its working for you. I assume you connect the red and white RCA to the svideo adapter? I'm really curious if you tried just connecting your yellow RCA to a composite video input on your TV and if it worked or if you had problems with it and then moved on to the svideo. I think if I had ordered the svideo adapter I would have gone straight to it and not bothered with the composite. Just wondering exactly what you did. What I'd really like to know is whether the composite worked and you HAD to use the svideo to get things to work or not. I think my last hope is to order the svideo cable since nothing is working right as it is and there are no other options for me to try. Thanks for your input Narf!! Rhindle

Well no luck today either. I can't find the svideo to 2 RCA connectors local as 8bitdomain told me to try the svideo option. I don't really want to spend $10 more for the svideo cable and shipping just to see if it works. The composite should work and it isn't for some reason. I have the wires connected per the docs. I'm waiting for the next step from them, but I'm really curious what it will be because there isn't too much to mess up here. I mean you take the chip off, put it on their board, stick it back on and put the wires in the white connector and stick it on. Not much to it. I'm disappointed needless to say, but I'm sure there has to be a simple reason it isn't working right. You can certainly see the diffenence in quality, but unfortunately the colors are all wrong. The picture from the yellow composite is very dark and apparently all greys are black (or white). In Adventure for example the white castle screen only looks like a black gate on a white screen. It’s like all the grey is white in that game. In Pole Position the street should be grey, but instead is totally black like the tires on the car. The background of Kaboom! where the robber is black instead of grey. It also appears that some things simply do not show up on the screen. Like Keystone Kapers for example. There is no stripe in the bouncing ball and you cannot see the stair rails. You can see the steps, but you cannot see the outline of the stair handrails for example. When the elevators open you can barely discern a color difference between the closed door and open door. I know you guys aren't 8bitdomain support, but maybe someone here has run into a similar problem with their mod. The RF still works fine. I even tried connecting the chroma and luma with a Y adapter to an RCA just to see what would happen. Well, it was ugly to say the least. I'm guessing that's what the svdieo would look like, but I could be totally wrong. Anyway, just a little venting here. Hopefully 8bitdomain support will be on the ball and have me a solution soon, although I'm thinking the 'solution' may be another mod because I just don't see what I could be doing wrong with this very simply mod. Rhindle

Well, I got the mod in tonight and just hooked it up (preliminary without drilling the holes yet just to see how it works since I don't want to stay up all night drilling holes) and I'm thinking I must have something wrong because it looks terrible. That is for example, Pole Position comes up looking great with the blue background and white text, but when you fire up the game the road is just as black as the tires as is the 'green' grass. Kaboom! looks awful too as apparenty all greys are black. Behind the robber dropping the bombs should be grey, but is all black. The preliminary result is all greys are black, but I'm not sure what else is wrong. I've only been messing with it for a few minutes and wanted to get on these boards and look for some clues. I have all the wires exactly the way the instructions say (just like Narf!s) and I've made sure all the pins are correct and not bent and all that. I'm not sure what to think at this point although it is early. Maybe I should try the svideo connector and use the luma and chroma. I actually have no clue what those are after seeing the terms referenced so many times. I looked up the definitions, but that didn't help much as far as connecting them to my TV, but from the documentation the svideo connector has two composite connectors that I assume connect to the luma and chroma. One of the two (luma or chroma) looks exactly the same as the composite output on the TV. That is, no greys (I guess). Gonna mess with it some more, but wondering if anyone may have a clue. I would also like to apologize for giving 8bitdomain crap for not getting back with me right away. They did 2 days after my order and got it here pretty quickly considering the time of year. Kudos for them for fast service! Hopefully they will be able to help me out here if I need to ask which looks like I may. Thanks for any input. Rhindle

Heh, it's only been two days since I placed my order with 8bitdomain, but sure enough I haven't heard a peep out of them yet. Seems odd that you can order stuff from a company, pay for it and still not hear anything at all from them. It's like they have your money, but do not even acknowledge the fact that you are choosing to do business with them. Oh well, I'm sure it's a small shop and it's a busy time of year and I bet they are doing their best. It's just interesting to hear about the flaky service from others and sure enough this is my impression as well. I did send them an email tonight to try to at least get a response so we'll see. If they at least get this mod to me and it works in the relatively near future I'll be happy. I'll be sure to report my results in this thread. Rhindle

Gotcha. I just may have to check it out. Thanks again for the info.

Thanks Narf! and Albert for your feedback. That's exactly what I'm looking for. So you'd say its worth the $40 to order the mod from 8bitdomain consideirng I'm currently using RF with coax adapter? Also, did you get the svideo cables or just use the composite? Thanks for the input! Rhindle