TrogdarRobusto
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Posts posted by TrogdarRobusto
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11 hours ago, Blinky said:
Natural binary order vs gray code for a 64K rom:
10-in-1 game order now:
0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,-,-,-,-,-,-10-in-1 game order using gray code:
0,1,3,2,6,7,5,4,-,-,-,-,8,9,-,-'-' is a unused game
I guess that's part of the nostalgic experience
OMG I love this thread on dip switches. I mean it does not get more granular and hard core than this.
100% I am sharing this discussion with the head of the cartridge program.
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10 minutes ago, jgkspsx said:
It is a fully separate company with its own management, headquarters, and staff. Nintendo co-owns it with Game Freak and Creatures Inc but it operates autonomously.
I met with Pokémon a few times when I worked in Europe. Really interesting dynamic in that organization. It did feel like they were largely masters of their own domain, but something was also off a bit .. a little odd? Not sure how to describe it. Super successful brand however, so they are doing something right.
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1 minute ago, littaum said:
I'm pretty sure some people would say "We've got Amiga at home."
Well certainly ... first things first!
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3 minutes ago, Flojomojo said:
Look in "Classic Computing" for some discussion. I don't think it overlaps much with classic Atari but some European members might feel differently. Is Atari going to buy up Amiga IP too? That wouldn't be such a bad thing from where I sit, but you'd have to pry it out of Cloanto.
It is not about buying, it is more about already owning a lot.
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4 minutes ago, Flojomojo said:
You're talking about Infogrames. There's a song for that.
O M G ... I had no idea.
I was listening to Liz Phair on vinyl and this at the same time, that hurt.-
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5 minutes ago, Flojomojo said:
Sir, this is AtariAge, not https://www.amigalove.com/
hah. I looked through the forum and there is no dedicated amiga thread, but it has been referenced quite a lot in this thread. 25 posts so far.
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so, what is the state of the Amiga platform in the opinion of this group? Hardware? Software? What is the appetite for Amiga content?
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53 minutes ago, M-S said:
I haven't had the time to post here exactly what I wanted to say, but I'll try to explain it better. I'm not saying Atari should immediately stop releasing through Limited Run Games because they are a scam, but some games like System Shock and Atari Mania will never be available physically again that way. And with all respect to Days of Doom, but do you think it has more "mass appeal" than games like Quake Remaster and the Recharged Collection?
And sorry, I didn't expect you to sit through the whole video I linked, which is from 2 years ago, and some things have in fact changed for better, but the core of the company still is based on a similar principle. You said this new Atari wanted to be more "pro consumer", but have you seen the reactions people had on this forum when the 100$ Atari collectible cartridges were announced? Compare that to what people have said about Mr Run n' Jump and Berzerk, which are available for a more reasonable price. The Recharged Collection was even worse, they decided to split it into 2 even though the 4 games would fit into the same cartridge/disc just fine, can't even call it a collection.
In conclusion, Atari can continue to sell these collectable games and deluxe editions, it's fine, but good companies are about giving options to their consumers, so I just ask you to consider releasing these limited physical games in other ways too.
It is all good. I watched the video because you took the time to send it to me, and I want to take your input seriously. Granted, it did set me off a little
but I hear you. Not everything can and should be limited. There is a lot of thinking that goes into how to handle physical for every game. I am not saying the LRG's business is flawless ...
Days of Doom I think will have retail shelf appeal. The chibi character art, the cover art, the post-apocalyptical theme. I think it will do fine. People really seem to like playing the game .. it was always a busy demo station at PAX West. And, the marketing benefits of being in big box retail are huge ...
We can release System Shock and Atari Mania again in physical form, just not with Limited Run, and not until the Limited Run exclusivity period ends. As I said, if there is a market, we will do it. Atari Mania is coming out next spring in Europe at retail. Akka Arrh was also released in Europe with a different distro partner. Both of those were handled by LRG in the states. It is interesting. LRG through that two games per pack for Recharged would work best with their audience, and it did pretty well. In Europe we are doing 4-games per cart/disc, but we are also going to mass retail. We will get to compare performance and adjust based on what we see.
The $149.99 price of some of the XP carts was a high-point in our pricing so far with carts. Definitely targeted collectors. The newer XP carts at $59.99 are priced lower, but they are also less complicated carts with less in the box. Label instead of painted surface on the cart. Less pack-ins, No light-up etched Lucite top. Still high quality, but different. The issue with these very short run/low quantity cartridge releases is that you don't get a lot of economy of scale that help you reduce retail price. With the Atari 2600+ coming we hopefully see a larger install base, which means more people are buying cartridges, and we are making carts in larger quantities which helps us bring down costs.
Plus they are cool.-
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1 hour ago, Atari_Warlord said:
sarcasm on/
I won't consider anyone the real Atari until the headquarters are relocated to 1265 Borregas ave, Sunnyvale, CA 94089.
Photos from that Atari office are amazing. So much good design came out of Borregas.
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9 hours ago, KainXavier said:
@TrogdarRobusto
I don't think this has been asked before, but are there any plans to release a "standard" edition of the games in the Atari XP line? Also, can we expect a $30 price point or will the price vary?There are going to be both retail and collectible 2600 carts. the retail carts will be $29.99. The collectible XP carts will be $59.99.
At least that is what I see between now and the end of the year for new releases.-
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Just now, cvga said:
I'll bet you're thankful that this never happens to the company you work for
Never! 🤩 Hey, sometimes we all deserve a little constructive criticism.
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Perhaps we should start a new forum thread entitled "assume the worst, they will never do anything right, everything sucks, I could do it better." And then everyone in that thread can stay up all night trying to have the last word.
Sounds kind of miserable to me but, some people like that kind of thing I guess. Me, I am going to bed. See you all tomorrow!
(I hope I am allowed to have a sense of humor. let me know if that is not the case.)-
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1 hour ago, M-S said:
It's true some games don't hold mass appeal, I don't see why Atari's games need to be sold only that way.
We are working with multiple distro partners at the moment. Limited Run is the only one who use the preorder + single production run model. It really isn't the only way we distribute titles. You can go online right now and order Days of Doom, Atari 50, Haunted House and Rollercoaster Tycoon Adventures Deluxe from Walmart, Best Buy, GameStop and Target. We will continue to do projects with Limited Run from time to time. They make a good product and they are legit gamers and fans of games.
Here me out on this M-S ... and sorry if I sound a bit strident that isn't really my intent.
I can tell you that much of the video is incorrect. I lost an hour of my life watching it. Long on conjecture, short on facts. Some odd complaints and a lot of ranting. You don't get 400k with a fair, sober look at an issue. You get 400k clicks by claiming to uncover a dark conspiracy. I took the time to refute a bunch of the claims in this video and then decided not to bother and deleted a few paragraphs of this post. Not my job to litigate this line by line. I will say that many of the the things the narrator "uncovered" ... those dark secrets ... Limited Run spells them out in their buying guide https://limitedrungames.com/pages/buying-guide.Many of the games LRG publishes would never get published in physical form if it wasn't for Limited Run (and similar companies) willingness to do short runs for smaller games that have passionate fans and collectors, but are not viable as mass market physical products. For many titles it is a short run or no physical at all.
This video strikes me as a hit job based on a combination of misunderstanding of how the LRG business works, assigning a nefarious, premeditated motive to every mistake LRG has ever made, and an overarching disgust for people who like to collect things.
This narrator is just so focused on the idea that people are only buying these games as an investment, and he thinks they are a bad investment. I don't think most people are buying these as an investment. Perhaps some are, and that is their choice. But no one is going to get rich buying and selling LRG games. I mean, that ain't putting the kids through college.
Most of the buyers are just fans and collectors who like physical stuff and are willing to pay for it. The person behind this video clearly looks down on these people ... he is above them. He is smart and people who collect things are gullible compulsive hoarders (starting around 52 minutes).
Almost everything covered in this channel seems to be touted as either amazing or awful ... a triumph or a disaster .. judging from the titles. The curse of click bait content.-
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7 hours ago, donjn said:
I hope Atari sees and addresses the following:
- Manually changing jumpers to select games is ridiculous on their multi-game cartridges, and why couldn't they pay someone to make a software menu?
- If that port in the back cannot support adding roms (or the system cannot support a multi-cart like Harmony cart), you have lost at least 50% of your audience.
I am pretty sure the dip switches were used for the combination of authenticity and novelty ... not because we couldn't afford to create a menu. So no, I don't think we are going to change that. Let's at least see what the broader reaction is to it vs pre judging the outcome.
50% of our potential audience is way too big an estimate. Maybe you are exaggerating to make a point, but that strikes me as a purposefully silly number.
The 2600+ is appealing to both the hard core Atari fans (not all, obviously) and the more casual Atari and retro fans. It is a pretty big pool of people, the majority of which have never once in their lives downloaded or ripped a 2600 ROM.
Adding some way to support the more complex homebrew game cartridges, or adding Harmony cart support for developers ... that is all up for discussion. Certainly increasing support for homebrew games is important to us. I'm not an engineer, so I won't pretend to know what is possible in this iteration and what might come in a future iteration of the product.-
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3 hours ago, Dr Karnov said:
That's true but it would be a bit more reassuring if he could pronounce the word "Jaguar"
I've heard jag-you-are, jag-wire and jag-whar. Pronunciations are all over the place. Wade is a big fan of the Jaguar, I think that is the important thing here.
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8 minutes ago, littaum said:
To help test compatibility, would it be useful to have a 2600+ at PRGE and people can bring the untested real cartridges to try them out?
Well that could be quite a line ... bui if we could get a whole bunch of games tested in a short amount of time. Al, what do you think?
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I just read the SmashJT article on Limited Run's Three Stooges release, trying to do some research on the question M-S asked. The article makes no sense at all to me. I need to be careful here ... but good grief. The author is claiming LRG is trying to manipulate people into buying their games in the hopes they will appreciate in value. That isn't a scam. Limited Run ... it is the name of the company. It is right out there. Limited Run. If you want to buy the game at the advertised price, buy it. Some people buy the games to play them. Some people buy them as part of a massive collection, which their children will likely have to liquidate when they pass (my poor children, so many collections they will inherit). Some people buy them as an investment, to resell them assuming they will increase in value. Whatever. Isn't that true of anything produced in limited quantities? Where is the scam? It is ascribing some nefarious intent where it doesn't exist.
I read some posts on Reddit that argue every game Limited Run and the other small batch publishers make should be made in unlimited quantities and sold at mass retail. People think Walmart is going to place a big order for a relatively obscure, discontinued Game Boy Advanced title and stock it on shelves across the globe? T H A T I S R I D I C U L O U S.
The only way a lot of these titles make it to market is in this ecommerce, limited production model. That is not a comment on LRG ... just the reality of the retro games market. Major retailers are incredibly risk averse. They aren't going to go anywhere near niche retro tiles that have been out of circulation forever.
Super Rare. Strictly Limited. Pixel Heart. I Am 8-bit. There are quite a few companies in the same space as Limited Run. They make cool physical versions of games, which is awesome. Remember, most of these games are available digitally. So why do people buy them? A lot of us like having a cool physical edition, especially if it has neat packaging and interesting extras. Leave us collectors alone. Let us collect what we want in peace.
(sometimes Reddit makes me crazy)-
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1 hour ago, M-S said:
Hey @TrogdarRobusto, since you mentioned availability of physical games, some of Atari's subsidiaries release their games only through a company called Limited Run Games, however, there's a lot of proof that this company is selling their games to official resellers in the first few minutes of open pre-orders, these resellers, mostly on Ebay, sell these games for inflated prices as "collectibles" and allegedly returns some of their profits to Limited Run Games. So, if a game gets a thousand copies, only 200 of these are going to be bought by actual fans that are going to play these games, the other 800 will be bought only to boost scarcity and prices.
I think you can't do anything to stop this from happening, but would it be possible to sell some of these games physically through the official Atari store in non limited quantities? Or at least enough for everyone that wants a copy?
Not sure what subsidiaries you are talking about? It is just us.
We sell some games with Limited Run Games. We also work with other distro partners around the world. LRG will do a pre-order period of 30 days or so every time they launch a game. Anyone can preorder the game during that window. They don't constrict preorders in anyway, except for time of course. You get a month, that is their model. There is no reason anyone would need to buy a game on ebay during the preorder window. And preorders are not capped. They make as many as are preordered, probably with a small overage. The games ship after they do a production run, typically many months after the preorder window ends. Once it is shipped, sure it could end up on ebay. And the price might go up because they only produce each game once when it is a limited run.
The scenario you are describing makes no sense to me ... there is no inventory to give/sell to ebay resellers? It is a preorder. Who would buy the promise of a physical game at 3x the cost when you can just go and preorder it yourself?
Maybe there is some other thing going on that you are referring to that I did not come across in my brief bout of searching?-
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2 minutes ago, hizzy said:
Just by eye, Mr Run & Jump looks like it was programmed in Batari basic. That's a beginner's programming tool.
I'd ask the developer John Mikula how he did it. I know there are some interviews. https://www.gamedeveloper.com/programming/how-mr-run-and-jump-leapt-onto-the-atari-2600-and-modern-pcs- ; you can find him on social or discord I am pretty sure.
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1 minute ago, Blinky said:
@TrogdarRobusto Now that AA has been acquired, will there be a "Join the AA community" sticker slammed on the 2600+ packaging?
The designers would love being asked to JAM something in
the packaging was locked long before A+AA happened.
That said, I would think that Atari's big ole email list and social media presence could be leveraged to bring more people into the AA community ... if that is something that makes sense.-
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1 hour ago, JPF997 said:
Hey trogdar could I trouble you to answer just one last question for today, is it possible down the line for Atari to make a 2600+ Vader model, as much as i like the original Wood grain design of the 2600 the all black Vader model just does it for me, the aesthetics of that model are just unmatched in my opinion , of course if there is no other option then I will settle for the normal version, but if there's any chance that that could be done I would love to own one, cheer's.
Anything is possible. No idea though. Passing this on to the head of hardware ...
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1 hour ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:
Why do you have to talk to Plaion? IMO it is not up to them to make a donation. Unless they are selling the 2600+ using the Atari brand.
Plaion is our manufacturing partner on this product, and good partners keep each other in the loop on comms. That is how we do things.
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2 minutes ago, Flojomojo said:
Just be gentle, we are old and cranky.
My wife tells me I am 56. I lose track. So I think I'm in the mix on old and cranky.
We are lucky to work at a company / with a brand that people are passionate about ... what more can you ask for.-
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Just now, splendidnut said:
He specifically suggested 'locking the thread' which is an attempt to shutdown discussion.
"Locking" was a poor choice of words. I'm looking to Al and the mods for guidance on how to focus and distribute. We are def going to expand the Q&A/FAQ ... might help a little. I can also just start linking back to previous answers. If I keep answering the same questions again and again fatigue is going to set in ... maybe I am just need to better define the questions I am willing and able to answer and start redirecting some of the off topic questions vs trying to respond to them.
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but I hear you. Not everything can and should be limited. There is a lot of thinking that goes into how to handle physical for every game. I am not saying the LRG's business is flawless ...
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in Atari General
Posted
Sadly I cannot answer this question for you (yet) because I am not the right person to speak to it. Al may be able to answer it, and I will ask the project lead as well.
The big picture answer I can provide is that yes, we do want to make the 2600+ as compatible as possible with more recent homebrew carts. Firmware updates are an option, if that is a path we can take we will explore it for sure. It is a very active topic of discussion, along with secondary controller compatibility.