Farb

Unfortunately, this project is only focused on original disks. However, you should check Atarimania to see if there are any programs in your ATR images that aren't available on that site.

This thread hasn't seen an update in a while so just a quick update. I added weak bit support to the now released version 0.6 and Klaus already has some preliminary timing-based protection support working in the latest development version. Additionally, cassette emulation seems to work really well in the latest 0.7 release. So things are progressing nicely!

For the benefit of others who may have also missed the announcement thread from a few months ago, here is a link: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/275629-sdrive-max-atx-support I'd suggest any further SDrive-Max discussions be handled there.

Done. I have sent a translation to the project owner.

It is better for ATX support... as in SDrive Max supports it and Sio2SD does not

Not sure, that's what I'm attempting to help with here I forget that there is only a German page for it. Can I assist with the English translation?

I saw those replies and I have a difficult time understanding that reasoning. It's not very common device because it is fairly new. And the only way it will become more common is for people to start using it. The firmware is free, open source and you can build the hardware for around $20 if you already have an SIO cable lying around. If a barrier to adoption is lack of skill to build/program one, then we should focus efforts to address that. The more people there are using SDrive Max, the more motivation there is to improve it and the more likely others will get involved. And if we can achieve good ATX support on this low-memory device, it will give others access to a working implementation that they can use to implement support in their more "popular" file loading device projects. I've been waiting years to see this happen and it simply hasn't which is why I got involved with SDrive Max because it was open and easy to jump into. The point of my previous post was to highlight the questionable practicality of continuing to rely on magnetic media. I'd hate to see our small community's efforts diluted spending time on efforts like developing new write-back hardware when it doesn't really solve the problem long-term. IMHO, an aspect of preservation is making sure people can use this software long after its original hardware is no longer practical to use either due to cost or availability. I believe projects like EclaireXL and SDrive Max (and others obviously) that are are open from both a hardware and software perspective are well worth supporting because they work to accomplish that. We clearly have very different definitions of "near impossible". We've already discussed no less than 4 possible ways to consume the results of this project: 1. Altirra 2. APE/VAPI 3. SDrive Max 4. SuperCard Pro write-back It may sound like I'm being pedantic but I want to make sure misinformation is not being spread. Various people's statements such as "can't actually use on my real hardware", "near impossible to appreciate[use]" and "exclusive focus on emulation" are simply not accurate and will hurt perception of the value of the project. If people start to believe that the output of this project is only for a certain elite that have exclusive access to unobtainable hardware or software, it will die. It's part of my job to make sure that doesn't happen and I've been doing everything I can to prevent that :-)

The offer to trade games for disk loaning is no longer an option since I've sold off most of my collection to continue funding the preservation project. But if you would prefer someone else to dump the software and are still willing to loan your disks out, I can connect you with some US-based colleagues that can assist.

I had toyed with the idea but quickly ran into memory limitations even with drive emulation so didn't take it any further. Unfortunately, I didn't get far enough down that path to even answer the questions you are asking :-( FYI, there is no longer any active development happening on SIO2Arduino. I've been contributing to the SDrive Max project which also runs on Arduino hardware but has additional support for enhanced density and cassette files. At this stage, we've gotten its ATX compatibility higher than SIO2Arduino and are continuing to increase it.

Where does this perception come from that the only way to make use of ATX files on real hardware is to write them back to physical media? There are two solutions you can use today to do this: 1. APE with the VAPI.dll (should run almost everything) 2. SDrive Max (this already supports many ATX files today and we are actively working on getting more advanced timing-based protections working). Don't get me wrong, I think the idea of writing back to real floppy disks is fun for the "full retro Atari experience". But it relies on disk drives that are getting pretty long in the tooth and media that we're already seeing has a finite shelf life and will become harder and harder to get (and more expensive) over time. To echo luckybuck's sentiment, if we are going to put effort into developing solutions to get ATX files running on real hardware, we should focus our efforts on sustainable solutions for the long term that don't rely on fragile hardware and media.

Those are titles that are still available commercially and/or their contributor requested they not be distributed in the torrent.

The reason it didn't spark any conversations during testing was that it required investigation into whether ClrMamePro could effectively do it which nobody (including myself) wanted to take on. That in turn raised the question of why I was generating a DAT file from the database vs. having ClrMamePro generate a DAT file from the directory structure, etc. It boils down to there not being a "right" way to do any of this. There's only the opinions and decisions made by the people doing the work. This recent change to a single torrent ZIP is a perfect example of a situation where changing something seemingly arbitrary can cause dissatisfaction. People earlier on expressed dissatisfaction with having to re-download a full torrent each release but there was also a negative reaction when I suggested we do away with the torrent and simply make everything available as individual downloads on the website. Sorry, I'm not trying to make this sound like a rant, but I just want to highlight that there's simply not going to be a way to make everyone happy. The current approach I chose of creating a directory of individual ZIP files mimics how TOSEC has been doing it for many years and I saw no reason to re-invent the wheel. If the recent introduction of non-ASCII characters to the database is creating problems, then we should certainly explore ways to fix it. My guess is the former is caused by ClrMamePro somehow not handling non-ASCII characters correctly since it is responsible for generating the ZIP files. I've always said that the torrent is a nice (and more cost-effective) way to get emulation-friendly files into the hands of the community but it is not the primary goal of the project. Thus, I don't want to spend any more time on it than necessary. IMHO, it is far more valuable for everyone that has the knowledge, capability and desire to keep focusing on actual preservation efforts because the clock is ticking. There is still plenty of work to do in that area. If someone wants to take on identifying tools and techniques that will allow us to generate a torrent everyone is happy with and also willing to generate and seed said torrent, I'm certainly open to collaborating on it. I agree with Kr0tki that multiple torrents is not a path I believe we should go down since it is more work, less effective for distribution and will potentially lead to confusion as to what is "official".

Sorry, couldn't resist. It's almost lunch time...

I really don't want to see _The Doctor__ get any grief over his decision to help out here. I didn't want to take the time from dump analysis to set up torrent hosting and he helped me out. As part of that help, he made a decision to create a single ZIP. I personally don't think it's a big deal but I'm also not a torrent consumer and Kr0tki raises some valid points about simultaneous consumption and seeding. I definitely think a single ZIP was far better than waiting another several weeks (or more) to get a new torrent published. Can we re-evaluate whether a single ZIP or expanded directory structure is the direction to go in when it comes time to do the next torrent?

Perfect, thank you!

@BigBen, with regards to Zorro, I saw a photo of the disk in your "friend" photos but no dump in the ZIP files. Was it a bad disk?

Just to be clear, GlowingGhoul specifically mentions recreating copy-protected disks which this approach would not accomplish. Cracks are interesting to play with but not particularly useful for preservation purposes.

I'm not sure where you got this impression. This project is focused on creating and archiving flux-level dumps of diskettes using currently available tools (which originally only meant Kryoflux and now includes SuperCard Pro). We happen to distribute disk images to the community in an emulation-friendly format but that doesn't mean our focus is emulation. As luckybuck pointed out, using a SuperCard Pro, a standard PC drive and a8rawconv is reasonably easy and reliable. Most ATX images we have written back to physical disk work just fine. We are always open to new technology that makes life easier. I have to imagine the pool of working PC floppy drives is greater than the pool of working Apple II drives but who knows. If the Applesauce board proves to be a reliable way to write back Atari disks, I'm sure someone will take on the challenge of creating a program to convert Kryoflux and SuperCard Pro flux dumps to Applesauce. Then we will be able to create Applesauce files for every title we have dumped. I'll definitely be paying attention to the Applesauce project. I'm STILL waiting to see the Kryoflux team start creating IPF images from Atari 8-bit dumps which would allow for perfect write-back to disks with Kryoflux. They've been saying it's "coming soon" for several of years now... so we all know the best of intentions may not achieve the desired effect.

A "missing" list is a bit challenging because it implies we have a list of every known piece of software released for Atari 8-bits :-) Fortunately, AtariWiki's scope is a little more confined and makes maintaining an accurate list a little easier. Having said that, I do need to create a page on the site that lists the releases we are currently aware of for which there are no dumps. I plan to do this well before Fujiama this year so I can ask people to bring disks that we need if they have them.

I would agree that it feels a bit more negative than it should. This is our first torrent release in almost a year and represents the most contributors I've ever had the pleasure of working with in my 6 years of doing it. Every contributor has worked hard and brings their own opinions and working styles to the project. Unfortunately, not all of those opinions are necessarily going to align but that is simply reality when there are many people involved. I realize that most comments and criticism are intended constructively, but it doesn't always come across that way in posts. The point of all this is to have fun and share what we've accomplished with the larger community. Let's keep things fun and continue this awesome momentum we've managed to build!

Last year's torrent had what we flag as non-original dumps in it (things we can't confirm came from an original disk). For now, I am excluding those. Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Mmmm... the Erdbeerkuchen looks delicious. I'm glad the session happened! Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

I wanted to point out that this is a new release of the torrent that _The Doctor__ has kindly kicked off for us. This release is massive with way more changes than I can reasonably list here. It is worth pointing out that this is the first release to feature enhanced density ATX files. A big thanks to Ijor and phaeron for making this happen! There were so many contributors to this release over the past several months that it is hard to mention everyone individually. I especially want to thank Fred, Mr. Bacardi, BigBen, erichenneke and many others who provided contributions of original disks and/or dumps. As always, Djaybee, Kr0tki and Ijor were instrumental in helping get dumps analyzed. And Fred and Mr. Robot saved me a ton of time QA'ing this new torrent after my massive database refactoring and generation script rewrite. I hope everyone enjoys the new release and thanks again to everyone who contributed! Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

I have been working with the author of the SDrive Max to add ATX support. It currently supports quite a few ATX files and the next version will support even more. It can be used with real hardware. Another option is APE with the VAPI plugin.

Thanks for making it happen!