Offtopicish: How 'bout dem Patriots? (also:Usenet)

[kisrael]

Heh, I'm lacking some of my old newsgroups so...

 

HOW ABOUT THE PATRIOTS???

 

I have to admit, I lost faith a little in the course of the game. And Brady's new tendency for INTs in the postseason scares the bajeebers out of me.

 

But man... Troy Brown playing offense and defense not in the same season, but the same play? WOW.

 

Long Live Martyball! I lived through the other side of it in Cleveland, and now I get to reap the rewards... like blowing their last timeout and a retarded challenge, just because you were irritated with the play.

...

 

Thinking about Usenet, does anyone still post to it? What service do you use? My old academic account seems to have given up on it...

[chadtower]

I have to admit, I lost faith a little in the course of the game. And Brady's new tendency for INTs in the postseason scares the bajeebers out of me.

 

That's more an indication of the quality of the Chargers' D, not really of Brady's play. The way that pass rush was after him any other QB would have had 4 INTs at least. They were vicious. What should really concern us is the way they abandoned the run so thoroughly. Dillon had NO CARRIES in the second or third quarter, IIRC. That is unacceptable, particularly since it's Dillon that is the key to delaying those blitzing linebackers.

 

 

But man... Troy Brown playing offense and defense not in the same season, but the same play? WOW.

 

That happens on just about every change of possession play. They made a huge deal out of it because of the importance of that play but it's actually pretty common, at least among players with a strong work ethic. Sadly you do see too many receivers just stand there after a pick and not do much of anything.

 

 

Long Live Martyball! I lived through the other side of it in Cleveland, and now I get to reap the rewards... like blowing their last timeout and a retarded challenge, just because you were irritated with the play.

 

The Chargers did shrivel up on offense in the second half. Still, what did LT rack up, had to have been close to 250 total yards? How often does that happen and your team still loses? Almost never.

 

Thinking about Usenet, does anyone still post to it? What service do you use? My old academic account seems to have given up on it...

 

The only decent free service I've ever found is Google Groups. Most of the pinball and arcade community is still out there via Usenet.

[kisrael]

I have to admit, I lost faith a little in the course of the game. And Brady's new tendency for INTs in the postseason scares the bajeebers out of me.

 

That's more an indication of the quality of the Chargers' D, not really of Brady's play. The way that pass rush was after him any other QB would have had 4 INTs at least. They were vicious. What should really concern us is the way they abandoned the run so thoroughly. Dillon had NO CARRIES in the second or third quarter, IIRC. That is unacceptable, particularly since it's Dillon that is the key to delaying those blitzing linebackers.

Yeah, that's kind of odd.

Still, In Bill We Trust. Sometimes I'm enough of a Homer to think that Bill is almost always holding something back to be unleashed later. I guess that's more realistic in the regular season than the postseason, but still.

 

But man... Troy Brown playing offense and defense not in the same season, but the same play? WOW.

 

That happens on just about every change of possession play. They made a huge deal out of it because of the importance of that play but it's actually pretty common, at least among players with a strong work ethic. Sadly you do see too many receivers just stand there after a pick and not do much of anything.

You're right. And as Bill Himself said on WEEI, look, there are 50 different plays that totally could've totally changed the feel of the game. That was just the most obvious, and that was because of luck and the...stupidity? maybe. of the guy who got the INT and started running and trying to make the play, when a swatted ball might've been enough to seal the game.

 

 

Long Live Martyball! I lived through the other side of it in Cleveland, and now I get to reap the rewards... like blowing their last timeout and a retarded challenge, just because you were irritated with the play.

 

The Chargers did shrivel up on offense in the second half. Still, what did LT rack up, had to have been close to 250 total yards? How often does that happen and your team still loses? Almost never.

Yeah. I had a feeling it might be over when the Pats tied it and then the Chargers went 3 and out and punted. Just looked it up, they were 4 and 5. Given how they went for, what, 4 and 10 before instead of a long FG attempt from a reliable kicker... dumb.

 

There were some umistakable bits of dumbness by the Chargers... burning a timeout on that challenge, the headbutt, not going for it on 4 and 5 at the end, and then the fumblable INT return.

 

Wonder if Marty is going to keep his job...

[chadtower]

You're right. And as Bill Himself said on WEEI, look, there are 50 different plays that totally could've totally changed the feel of the game. That was just the most obvious, and that was because of luck and the...stupidity? maybe. of the guy who got the INT and started running and trying to make the play, when a swatted ball might've been enough to seal the game.

 

 

The talking heads love to say crap like "if he swats that ball it works out better". It's third down, you have no guarantee that they'll punt on 4th, or any of 100 different things may happen. When there is a turnover to be had you take it. It's that simple. Swatting a ball on third down is not a turnover. Intercepting that ball is a turnover. Turnovers win games more reliably than anything other than points. You're out there to make plays, that DB made a great play, but unfortunately for him Troy Brown (and Caldwell - what he did was just as important) made one three seconds later.

 

 

Yeah. I had a feeling it might be over when the Pats tied it and then the Chargers went 3 and out and punted. Just looked it up, they were 4 and 5. Given how they went for, what, 4 and 10 before instead of a long FG attempt from a reliable kicker... dumb.

 

 

The same kicker that missed a ~50 yarder to tie the game at the end.

 

 

 

There were some umistakable bits of dumbness by the Chargers... burning a timeout on that challenge, the headbutt, not going for it on 4 and 5 at the end, and then the fumblable INT return.

 

 

I'm surprised no one is talking about the personal foul that they let LT get away with. He tackled that guy by his face mask alone. That's a 15 yarder every single time but for some reason not for LT.

[kisrael]

The talking heads love to say crap like "if he swats that ball it works out better". It's third down, you have no guarantee that they'll punt on 4th, or any of 100 different things may happen. When there is a turnover to be had you take it. It's that simple. Swatting a ball on third down is not a turnover. Intercepting that ball is a turnover. Turnovers win games more reliably than anything other than points. You're out there to make plays, that DB made a great play, but unfortunately for him Troy Brown (and Caldwell - what he did was just as important) made one three seconds later.

Yeahbut... it was 4th down.

(I just checked)

So... f he swats that ball it works out better.

 

Yeah. I had a feeling it might be over when the Pats tied it and then the Chargers went 3 and out and punted. Just looked it up, they were 4 and 5. Given how they went for, what, 4 and 10 before instead of a long FG attempt from a reliable kicker... dumb.

The same kicker that missed a ~50 yarder to tie the game at the end.

Then pooch punt or something. And the earlier one would have been like 6 yards closer.

 

I'm surprised no one is talking about the personal foul that they let LT get away with. He tackled that guy by his face mask alone. That's a 15 yarder every single time but for some reason not for LT.

Yeah, there was some crap officiating there. There was that, and much earlier there was a failure to make a pretty blatant interference call. I dunno if there was much that went in our favor for that, though that one unsportsmanlike headbutt almost coulda been given an offset penalty for our guy's reaction.

 

Been reading some other team's fansites. It's funny, but they're convinced Pats are dirty players, and classless.

[chadtower]

Yeahbut... it was 4th down.

(I just checked)

So... f he swats that ball it works out better.

 

 

Yeah, if it was 4th, swatting would be in his head. So much easier said than done, though, when the hats are flying and the ball is in the air. NFL defenses are increasingly being taught that their job isn't only to prevent scoring but to score themselves... so guys want those turnovers. Plus, unfortunately, we're living in the SportsCenter era, where many players only think about making the highlight reel with big hits and INTs. It seems to be especially prevalent among DBs, with half of them not even knowing how to make a proper tackle because all they ever do is go for the big SportsCenter moment hit.

 

 

 

 

Been reading some other team's fansites. It's funny, but they're convinced Pats are dirty players, and classless.

 

They are dirty. Dirtier than I've seen them in a long time. There has been a lot of extra sauce this year that wasn't as obvious in previous years. Funny that no one in New England seems to notice that, meanwhile they have Rodney Harrison back there voted by his peers (by a substantial margin despite missing so much time) as the NFL's dirtiest player two of the last three seasons.

[kisrael]

Been reading some other team's fansites. It's funny, but they're convinced Pats are dirty players, and classless.

 

They are dirty. Dirtier than I've seen them in a long time. There has been a lot of extra sauce this year that wasn't as obvious in previous years. Funny that no one in New England seems to notice that, meanwhile they have Rodney Harrison back there voted by his peers (by a substantial margin despite missing so much time) as the NFL's dirtiest player two of the last three seasons.

Yeah, that is funny. I'm not smart enough at watching football to really pick up on the sauce I guess.

 

I heard about Denver's Defense as being the dirtiest, especially in terms of going low and for knees etc.

 

What does Rodney do that makes him so bad?

 

And what does this all say about good ol' Bill? You think back to a couple of years ago, and the whole "team introduction" thing that's the new standard, and you kind of wish our guys weren't into celebrating as much as they are.

 

Ah well, what can you do. It's still fun to watch this team re-invent itself time and time again to deal with different teams.

[chadtower]

Yeah, that is funny. I'm not smart enough at watching football to really pick up on the sauce I guess.

 

It's hard to pick up on TV without knowing what to look for as they don't show the guys in piles and getting up and things like that. I've seen a lot of questionable late hits (especially from Bruschi of late), when you see a guy getting up and starts kicking at opponents, when they've still got a good hold on a limb well after the whistle has blown, stuff like that. I think it's as much the departure of Crennel as anything else. Defensive players have that tendency, they are very aggressive, and the more intense ones will usually slide towards being dirty if they're not reigned in one way or another.

 

 

I heard about Denver's Defense as being the dirtiest, especially in terms of going low and for knees etc.

 

Denver's offense, not the defense. Their OL is absolutely filthy as a unit. That's the primary reason they have a rule against their OL talking to the media (you can see that on their MNF intros and such... still pics, no audio from them). Their ability to get away with the chop and cut blocking styles is what makes them so effective. I don't know why they get away with as much as they do.

 

 

 

What does Rodney do that makes him so bad?

 

He's a headhunter. Hard hitter, very very aggressive, can and will go straight for the head. He's known to be nasty in pileups (imagine being in a pile and someone is punching you repeatedly in the nuts). Comes in hard and late a lot (see his personal fouls, gets a lot of them). On more visible plays, will go for knees, twist ankles on the ground, etc etc. There is a reason the Boston media didn't complain about the way that WR went after his knees (which as as much bad technique as it was cheap) and that there was no personal foul or outcry. Karma is a bitch and that was a prime example of what goes around coming back.

 

 

And what does this all say about good ol' Bill? You think back to a couple of years ago, and the whole "team introduction" thing that's the new standard, and you kind of wish our guys weren't into celebrating as much as they are.

 

It probably means more that the veteran player leadership in the locker room is sliding than it does about Belichick. You subtract the high character leaders like McGinest and you lose their leadership as well. A head coach doesn't preach "team introduction" and the like, team captains do.

[kisrael]

So whaddya think? All down hill from here? Or just something that comes and goes?

 

They say Bill and Kraft are working to build a team in the playoff hunt year after year. I mean, so is everyone, but maybe they're smart enough to do it.

 

Even though sometimes I think they did better with the smaller cap...

[chadtower]

Frankly, I think it will go as their current player core goes. The offense will be strong as long as Brady and the OL play well. Their OL is pretty damn good when you consider their tendency to completely abandon the run and let Brady sling it almost exclusively. Neal is a monster. He won the NCAA Div 1 heavyweight wrestling championship twice, and in 1999 also won the U.S. Freestyle Championship, the Pan-American Games title and the World Championships. Amusingly, he won the '99 NCAA title by beating Brock Lesnar.

 

On D, once Bruschi and Vrabel go, their versatility will be what really declines the defense. They're getting up there in age too and no one really knows if Bruschi's career will end suddenly on any given play.

 

They'll continue to make great personnel moves, of course. Front office talent is key. Who is questioning their decision to trade Branch now, given the way he has been so inconsistent in Seattle and how well the Pats' WRs have stepped up in the late going?

 

But really, it all revolves around Tom Brady. There are a lot of teams out there with talent in the front office and on the field but there are only a single handful of teams with QBs like Brady and only one that plays like Brady in the clutch.

[ClubNinja]

*Sufficiently amused by Lesnar reference*

[NE146]

Thinking about Usenet, does anyone still post to it? What service do you use? My old academic account seems to have given up on it...

 

Yes. Although rec.games.video.classic is definitely not the group is used to be. I think most of them post on web boards

 

These days if I use usenet, it's mostly to download binaries. I use Newshosting.

[kisrael]

I use UsenetBinaries.com for the...err, usual suspect binaries, and might be willing to pay extra for something I could hook up a newsreader to.

 

Getting back to the Pats, so I guess as long as there's the Bill + Brady core, the Pats should usually be in contention. Too bad all the apples keep getting shaken off Belichick's coaching tree, though for the guys who go to coach college teams, there's some positive stuff in terms of players coming from those schools. I guess as players age the character of the D-line etc will have to change. I guess that's nothing new for the Patriots though... they kind of seem to reset every year, going back to basics for the first part of the season and then graduating to the trickier plays as the team seems ready to cope with it.

 

And yeah, two first round picks will be nice... too bad the Mariners didn't choke even more, and thank god for the Pats ability to find coal where others see only dirty rock.

 

How does the draft work? Does making it to the playoffs mean you're in the last 12 of the drafting order, or does your season record come more into play?

[chadtower]

Generally it is done by season record among those who don't make the playoffs, with various tiebreakers in place. Then for those who make the playoffs it goes by order of elimination with (I think) the same tiebreakers applying among those teams. The Super Bowl Champion picks last.

 

That doesn't factor in things like traded picks, compensatory picks (for restricted free agent signings), etc. The Pats have the 22nd pick from Seattle and I think their own somewhere between 29 and 32 (of their first rounders).

[kisrael]

What the fuck was THAT?

[ClubNinja]

Crap, mostly.

[chadtower]

The Colts spent the first 20 minutes trying to go outside to (Marvin) Harrison and Wayne but Hobbs and Samuel were playing CB for the ages. Way above their heads, even for Samuel. Eventually the Colts adjusted and started to attack the middle with intermediate routes to Dallas Clark, hitting (Rodney) Harrison's spot. James Sanders is a good run safety but is a serious liability in pass coverage. Clark caught pass after pass while Sanders continuously took too long to get over and then took bad angles in pursuit. I like James Sanders - he lives right near me and has a couple of younger siblings that he supports himself - but Clark's 130+ yards were mostly on Sanders.

 

The other half of that coin was that yet again the Pats gave up on the run too early and too completely. Maroney was completely ineffective again and Dillon isn't much of a threat alone. I hope I'm wrong but Maroney is starting to look like Cadillac Williams... great for his first 6 games and then not much better than mediocre after returning from his first NFL injury.