+stephena Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 A little of topic but, hey. A couple of things I'd like to see Stella do (if it doesn't already). - how about a switch to show what bankswitching a game is using? Something like the the ALT L switch does to display line count on the screen. - is there a way to just show the .bin files for example? I often click on a .lst, .asm, or .txt file cause it's in the same folder. There's another thread for Stella-related improvements and suggestions, but I'll answer this one here: 1) Something like this is planned for the next release. Basically an in-game 'statistics' window that shows current bankswitch mode, file size, NTSC/PAL format, etc. All of this can be viewed on the commandline right now; the addition will be to enable viewing of the info in a window while the ROM is running. 2) The latest version of Stella already does this. The ROM launcher only shows files that end in bin, a26, rom, zip, or gz. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/103737-2600-rom-comparisions-and-dumps/page/18/#findComment-1606454 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Granted, I know very little on the subject, but it seems to me that you should keep either one or the other (all $00 or all $FF roms). I mean you guys are going thru all the trouble to find these differences...why not use it to make the rom set consistent? That's exactly what I'm going to do. The [a]lternates are removed, unless Nukey states that the original version is somehow bugged / glitched / badly dumped. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/103737-2600-rom-comparisions-and-dumps/page/18/#findComment-1606467 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 You got it. I suppose that giving priority to the non-alternate filenames is better because we're halfway through the set of suspects. I'll continue to report on the likely causes of those differences, tho...it only takes a minute or two. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/103737-2600-rom-comparisions-and-dumps/page/18/#findComment-1606495 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegamatrix Posted October 19, 2008 Author Share Posted October 19, 2008 I'll continue to report on the likely causes of those differences, tho...it only takes a minute or two. Please do! Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/103737-2600-rom-comparisions-and-dumps/page/18/#findComment-1606516 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Space Jockey (Unknown) PAL A timer value differs between the original and [a] at $F029. This does not remedy the scanline added when gameplay begins, that is present in both of them. The original runs at 297 (298 in-game)...and [a] runs at 314 (315 in-game). While the latter is closer to the PAL standard, the fact that the game is at an odd number during gameplay means that a PAL television would lose the color signal. Something else that is weird in [a] is the cold start code. Near the end of the binary are the color tables for opposing sprites. For the house's color table, an additional loop was placed there that is executed on powerup... START: ldx #$0F ;2 LF7D8: lda #$00 ;2 sta.w REFP0 ;4 sta.w REFP1 ;4 dex ;2 bne LF7D8 ;2 jmp LF000 ;3 I have no idea WHAT this code was attempting to do! Clearing hardware ram? Unfortunately, neither STA instruction is indexed...so it just clears sprite reflect 15 times. Anybody have any guesses? Neither one is a bad dump, tho. Space Raid (PAL) Just a timer change at $F74F/50. Original game runs at 304 scanlines, the [a]lternate at 297. Neither one is a bad dump...but like the above, the odd number of scanlines is a problem with PAL televisions. Space Shuttle [a] was already examined before. The code is altered to use FE bankswitching. Neither one is a bad dump...they are both known cartridge versions. Spider Kong (Goliath) PAL features graphical changes and such. Side-by-side disassembly comparison is needed because [a] has some removed code way up top. Neither one is a bad dump. The same is true for Spider Kong (Unknown) PAL...shifting code between the 2 versions. However, something to take note of is that the original Spider Kong (Goliath) PAL is almost identical to Spider Kong (Unknown) PAL [a] ... just a missing stretch of data from $FF90-$FFB9 that's been zeroed out in the latter (so it's quite possible to be a bad dump). IMO Spider Kong (Unknown) PAL [a] should either be removed, or renamed to Spider Kong (1983) (Goliath) (6) (PAL) [a2]. Spike's Peak (PAL) just features that $FF oddity in the hotspots. All hotspots are the NOP opcode between the 2 versions. The original game features $FF's only in the referenced ones ($DFF9 and $FFF8)...the other two are still NOP's. Makes me suspect that [a] is the accurate dump, but you can remove either one of them. Spinning Fireball - Just a slight timing change (269 vs 268) and zeroed copyright logo bitmaps in [a]. Neither one is a bad dump. Sports Action Pak - Some garbage code existing on the hotspots (all banks), could have been an unused form of game selection. The hotspots have been zeroed out in [a]. Makes me suspect that the "original" is the accurate dump. You can remove either one of them. Stand Alone Test Cart [a] appears to be a bad [o]verdump. Only 1 code change present...a dropped bit of the value stored to SWACNT (disabling write-ability to the high bit). Even that doesn't have any effect to the program, tho...because the change exists in the overdump area (the 2k game has an ORG of $F800). In other words...if you split the 4k rom in half, and throw away the first half (none of that is used by the program), the two versions are 100% identical. Keep the original, toss [a]. Star Voyager (CCE) The only difference is the infamous CCE logo change. In [a], it's 1 scanline lower in the bitmaps. Neither one is a bad dump. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/103737-2600-rom-comparisions-and-dumps/page/18/#findComment-1606578 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Many thanks, Nukey. I will work this out and post a new zip tomorrow. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/103737-2600-rom-comparisions-and-dumps/page/18/#findComment-1606590 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegamatrix Posted October 19, 2008 Author Share Posted October 19, 2008 (edited) The same is true for Spider Kong (Unknown) PAL...shifting code between the 2 versions. However, something to take note of is that the original Spider Kong (Goliath) PAL is almost identical to Spider Kong (Unknown) PAL [a] ... just a missing stretch of data from $FF90-$FFB9 that's been zeroed out in the latter (so it's quite possible to be a bad dump). IMO Spider Kong (Unknown) PAL [a] should either be removed, or renamed to Spider Kong (1983) (Goliath) (6) (PAL) [a2]. The Spider Kong (unknown) PAL [a] is actually game 164 (called Spider Web) from the 208 in 1 multicart. It is a good dump; I did it myself. I merged all the Spider Kongs, Pac Kongs, Inca Golds I had a while back. It's very rough and I never did much with it. There are many changes to Spider Web over the PAL unknown. You can take a look Nukey. Also look before the main program in the disassembly , because I left a quick comparision of the two for you. I'm confused with the stretch of data you say is missing. That is mostly just the erased logo, and it is erased in both of them. Before the logo is a small chunk of gfx for the ladders or pillars, I think. Note since so many of the versions are integrated the labels often don't match the address due to some shifting around. Edit to add attachment. Inca_Gold__all_ver_.zip Edited October 20, 2008 by Omegamatrix Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/103737-2600-rom-comparisions-and-dumps/page/18/#findComment-1606615 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 The Spider Kong (unknown) PAL [a] is actually game 164 (called Spider Web) from the 208 in 1 multicart. It is a good dump; I did it myself. Thanks for that Any idea how your dump ended up getting a wrong name? Multicart thread: http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=129916 There are many changes to Spider Web over the PAL unknown.Yeah...but not many changes compared to the Goliath main version...which is what I posted. Here they are: 00000F9D: 9D 00 00000F9E: 95 00 00000F9F: 95 00 00000FA0: F5 00 00000FA1: 95 00 00000FA2: 80 00 00000FA3: E0 00 00000FA5: 28 00 00000FA6: 6C 00 00000FA7: EE 00 00000FA8: AA 00 00000FA9: 29 00 00000FAD: BA 00 00000FAE: 8A 00 00000FAF: BA 00 00000FB0: A2 00 00000FB1: 38 00 00000FB2: 82 00 00000FB5: E9 00 00000FB6: AB 00 00000FB7: AF 00 00000FB8: AD 00 00000FB9: E9 00 I'm confused with the stretch of data you say is missing. That is mostly just the erased logo, and it is erased in both of them. Before the logo is a small chunk of gfx for the ladders or pillars, I think. Note since so many of the versions are integrated the labels often don't match the address due to some shifting around.You are correct, sir! I dunno where I got that idea. So all that needs to be done is to rename it to "Spider Web". Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/103737-2600-rom-comparisions-and-dumps/page/18/#findComment-1606697 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegamatrix Posted October 20, 2008 Author Share Posted October 20, 2008 Ah, gotcha. Didn't know you were talking about the Goliath version. I wanted to know who originally did this game since it has been hacked so many times. My idea was to mash it all together and see what was common, what was different, and what versions branched off together. After I went through all that school started and I put it on the back burner and kind of forgot about it. The Goliath version (the one with the giant octopus monster thing) is not the original. You can tell that because they started optimizing the code by replacing some absolute addressing with zero page followed by a NOP. Funny thing is they never made use of them. The Inca Gold NTSC and Spider Maze NTSC are also very closely tied. The rest I don't remember off hand. I think it should be called Spider Web too. Since it came from a pirate cart I think Rom just left it as Spider Kong (unknown) PAL [a], but then you loose the source with such a description. Since this rom didn't match any in Rom's collection it is so far unique to the 208 in 1 multicart. That being said I don't think for one second that this rom, this particular version of it, is not on some other pirate cart out there. I kind of figure this pirate cart was done by either Bit Corp or Funvision. If I ever get the courage I will pop it open and see if there is a company name on the circuit board. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/103737-2600-rom-comparisions-and-dumps/page/18/#findComment-1606703 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 (edited) Actually (like you said before), there are so many games with only goofy scanline count changes done to them that the multicart/game select console versions ARE unique. They should always be named just the way that they are on those sources IMO. Maybe including the games' name of what they are hacked from (as an "AKA", "hack of", etc.), but the game title itself should be what it was sold/discovered as. BTW many games use $00 as a base read address for ram (instead of the proper address $30). So when you see something like LDA WSYNC in a disassembly, it's more precisely LDA CXP0FB (collision status for player0 in that example). You can "fix" a disassembly by pasting TIA_BASE_READ_ADDRESS = $00 up top after editing the arguments to their proper names. Edited October 20, 2008 by Nukey Shay Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/103737-2600-rom-comparisions-and-dumps/page/18/#findComment-1606710 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegamatrix Posted October 20, 2008 Author Share Posted October 20, 2008 BTW many games use $00 as a base read address for ram (instead of the proper address $30). So when you see something like LDA WSYNC in a disassembly, it's more precisely LDA CXP0FB (collision status for player0 in that example). You can "fix" a disassembly by pasting TIA_BASE_READ_ADDRESS = $00 up top after editing the arguments to their proper names. This is good to know. I had no idea why it was doing that. I'll have to read up on that as its happend in a few games. I thought it was some weird trick they were doing that I didn't understand. Thanks Nukey! Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/103737-2600-rom-comparisions-and-dumps/page/18/#findComment-1606718 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 Handy conversion table of read/write equates: ;collisions... ;P=player,M=missile,BL=ball,PF=playfield (WRITE ADDR)(READ ADDR)(Bit7)(Bit6) $00 VSYNC CXM0P $30 M0-P1 M0-P0 $01 VBLANK CXM1P $31 M1-P0 M1-P1 $02 WSYNC CXP0FB $32 P0-PF P0-BL $03 RSYNC CXP1FB $33 P1-PF P1-BL $04 NUSIZ0 CXM0FB $34 M0-PF M0-BL $05 NUSIZ1 CXM1FB $35 M1-PF M1-BL $06 COLUP0 CXBLPF $36 BL-PF ----- $07 COLUP1 CXPPMM $37 P0-P1 M0-M1 ;game controllers... (WRITE ADDR)(READ ADDR) $08 COLUPF INPT0 $38 PADDLE0 $09 COLUBK INPT1 $39 PADDLE1 $0A CTRLPF INPT2 $3A PADDLE2 $0B REFP0 INPT3 $3B PADDLE3 $0C REFP1 INPT4 $3C TRIGGER0 $0D PF0 INPT5 $3D TRIGGER1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/103737-2600-rom-comparisions-and-dumps/page/18/#findComment-1606723 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 That being said I don't think for one second that this rom, this particular version of it, is not on some other pirate cart out there.That's exactly the reason why I don't rename it to Spider Web. If I start renaming ROMs with multicart titles, there's no end. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/103737-2600-rom-comparisions-and-dumps/page/18/#findComment-1606773 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 Ok, from the last zip, the following ROMs are REMOVED: Spike's Peak (1983) (Xonox - K-Tel Software - Beck-Tech) (6210, 7210, 06003. 99001) (PAL) [a] Sports Action Pak - Enduro, Ice Hockey, Fishing Derby, Dragster (1988) (HES - Activision) (PAL) [a] Stand Alone Test Cart (SALT) (1982) (Atari) [a] The rest stays in. Next zip: Roms14.zip Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/103737-2600-rom-comparisions-and-dumps/page/18/#findComment-1606775 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegamatrix Posted October 20, 2008 Author Share Posted October 20, 2008 That being said I don't think for one second that this rom, this particular version of it, is not on some other pirate cart out there.That's exactly the reason why I don't rename it to Spider Web. If I start renaming ROMs with multicart titles, there's no end. Yes, I see your point. There is the issue of sourcing though. The 208 in 1 multicart had 46 unique roms on it, that haven't been dumped before. That's quite a chunk. They are mostly "goofy" hacks like Nukey calls them. If in the future I dump a cart and it matches one of these roms then it would be nice to make that connection between the two. Do you see what I am saying? Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/103737-2600-rom-comparisions-and-dumps/page/18/#findComment-1606783 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 Yes, I understand what you're saying. But I decided not to use any multigame cart titles in my collection. However, if a single cart pirate release 100% matches an unknown ROM, it can carry that title. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/103737-2600-rom-comparisions-and-dumps/page/18/#findComment-1606787 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 (edited) Survival Island The [a]lternate is really a (1 of 3) file. The binary loader differs in some way...changes occur only past the initial 6k (therefore, the game itself is not different). Perhaps somebody who knows about such things could help? Surf's Up [a] This game is unplayable (only 1 byte differs). When the program is in the 2nd bank, the LSB of the bankswitch instruction to go back to the first bank is set to the wrong hotspot. The program becomes trapped...endlessly looping the intro screens and triggering the wrong hotspot. I dunno if the game exists out there someplace, but it is virtually unplayable. Maybe as some kind of demo to show off the intro screens? Your call if you want to remove it. The change is too specific to be chalked up as a bad dump IMO. Superman (Unknown) PAL The [a]lternate looks to be a hack of an NTSC version. The differences are confined to game colors (all NTSC values) and screen positions. How many NTSC versions do you have that this can be compared against? BTW the "original" file only differs from Atari's own PAL version by 2 bytes. This happens on the unused NMI vector spot, garbage values have been zeroed out. This spot is never used by the program or the machine (the indirect table at $FFF1 is 8 bytes long), you can remove that one for sure. Superman (PAL) Again, differences only occur on the unused NMI vector spot. Hard to determine which one of them would have been the accurate dump, because they are just unused garbage values. You can remove one of these. Super Kung Fu (PAL) only differs on the hotspots. Both of the referenced ones are value $FF in the "original", but the other 2 bytes match what is in [a]. In the [a] file, the values $00 $45 appear in both banks...leading me to believe that this alternate is the accurate dump (maybe a version number?). You can remove either one of them. Super Breakout was already done back on page 12. Neither one is a bad dump...the alternate is possibly an earlier version. Super Action Pak (PAL) The "original" features the garbage values $00 $EA $02 $00 existing on the 4 hotspots in each bank. These are all zeros in the [a]lternate. No sure which one is legit (more NOP's exist in the NMI vectors in the original)...but you can remove either one of them. Suicide Mission Like what happened with Survival Island above, the cassette loader is the only thing that differs (and I don't know how). The 6k game itself is totally identical between the two versions. Subterrania (PAL) The "original" features $FF's on the referenced hotspots only. The other nearby values are zero. All zeros for this area in the [a]lternate. Makes me suspect that the latter is accurate, but you can remove either one. Starmaster (PAL) Some code-shifting going on. Files need side-by-side disassembly, but neither one of them is a bad dump. The significant change that causes the code shift happens here: LF511: STY $82;3 STA $81;3 STA WSYNC;3 STA WSYNC;3 missing in alternate STA WSYNC;3 missing in alternate ...and this 4-byte skew continues all the way through the program to where the first few data tables exist. The 2 additional WSYNC's have no effect to the game (it's in the VBLANK area), so they were possibly removed for being superfluous. In that case, [a] might be a later version. Update: I discovered that the 2 missing WSYNC's would have had an effect, but the timer ($F2EA) is set a little higher in the alternate to account for them. Removing these 2 lines from the original game and bumping the timer to $34 makes a 100% match to the alternate game. Edited October 20, 2008 by Nukey Shay Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/103737-2600-rom-comparisions-and-dumps/page/18/#findComment-1606790 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 Thanks, Nukey. ROMs REMOVED: Subterranea (Tarantula) (1983) (Imagic, Mark Klein) (EIZ-003-04I) (PAL) [a] Super Action Pak - Pitfall, Barnstorming, Grand Prix, Laser Blast (1988) (HES - Activision) (223) (PAL) [a] Super Kung-Fu (1983) (Xonox - K-Tel Software) (6230, 6250) (PAL) [a] Superman (1979) (Atari, John Dunn) (CX2631, CX2631P) (PAL) [a] Superman (Unknown) (PAL) The rest stays in, including the weird Surf's Up [a] proto. Next zip: Roms15.zip One zip to go after this... Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/103737-2600-rom-comparisions-and-dumps/page/18/#findComment-1606793 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 Unknown Activision Game #1 Code shifting...an early change happens here: LF019: LDA #$01 ;2 missing in original STA $EC ;3 missing in original However, there's a whole lot of stuff missing in the [a]lternate (all unused bytes appear to be set to value $FF in both versions). Neither one a bad dump...[a] suspected to be an earlier version. Tunnel Runner The differences are in RAM and the bankswitch hotspots only. Difficult to determine an accurate dump suspect, as the value differences are reversed in some areas. Remove either one of them. Trick Shot (PAL) Broken code in the "original"...a branch loses it's upper nybble. L13FD: LDA $C3 ;3 CMP #$10 ;2 BCS L140E ;2 DEC $EE,X ;6 BPL L140A ;2 ** LDY $F8 ;3 LDA L1E30,Y;4 branch ends here in the argument STA $EE,X ;4 L140E: LDA $98,X ;4 BEQ L141A ;2 DEC $98,X ;6 JSR L1A9A ;6 JSR L1A8E ;6 L141A: CPX #$00 ;2 it should have gone to L141A The alternate file branches correctly. Remove the original (undoubtedly a bad dump). Title Match Pro Wrestling Incorrect ORG's listed for the [a]lternate and differing hotspot values. Keep the original only. Title Match Pro Wrestling - Pro Wrestling (PAL) Differing hotspot values. The [a]lternate here is suspected to be correct ONLY because of the NOP value used ($EA...which the NTSC game above did). You can remove either one. Taz (Tazz) Differeing hotspots again. $FF in referenced spots for the original, zeros for the [a]lternate. Because the rest of this area is zeros in both games, that makes me suspect that [a] is the accurate dump. Get rid of either one. Target Practice (CCE) The "carnival" portion of the logo has been replaced with another CCE logo in the [a]lternate. That is the only change...neither is a bad dump. Swordquest-Fireworld (PAL) Differing values for referenced hotspots...$FF in original, $00 in [a]lternate. The rest of this area is zeros in both versions...leading me to suspect that [a] is the accurate one. Get rid of either. Swordquest-Earthworld The same thing happens here...the [a]lternate most likely to be correct. Dump either one of them. Sword Of Saros A different cassette loader again. There is only 1 difference in the game itself... LFD7A: sta $8A ;3 jmp LFD3E ;3 lda #$06 ;2 jsr LF1D7 ;6 jsr LF465 ;6 lda #$46 ;2 sta $96 ;3 lda #$2C ;2 #$AC in alternate sta $99 ;3 I'm not sure which of them is correct...maybe hacking values in Stella as the game is played would reveal that. Neither one of them is bad due to the altered loader, tho. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/103737-2600-rom-comparisions-and-dumps/page/18/#findComment-1606800 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 Ok, the following ROMs are REMOVED: Swordquest - EarthWorld (Adventure I) (1982) (Atari, Dan Hitchens) (CX2656) [a] Swordquest - FireWorld (Adventure II, SwordQuest II - Fireworld) (1982) (Atari, Tod Frye) (CX2657) (PAL) [a] Taz (Tazz) (1983) (Atari, Jerome Domurat, Steve Woita) (CX2699) [a] Title Match Pro Wrestling - Pro Wrestling (1987) (Absolute Entertainment, Alex DeMeo) (EAZ-041-04I) (PAL) [a] Title Match Pro Wrestling (1987) (Absolute Entertainment, Alex DeMeo) (AG-041-04) [a] Trick Shot (1982) (Imagic, Dennis Koble) (720100-2B, IA3000P) (PAL) Tunnel Runner (Black Box) (1983) (CBS Electronics, Richard K. Balaska Jr., Andy Frank, Stuart Ross) (4L 2520 5000) [a] The rest stays in. The strange thing is that only one Unknown Activision Game #1 proto cart has ever been found... Perhaps Tempest knows more about this. Last zip: Roms16.zip Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/103737-2600-rom-comparisions-and-dumps/page/18/#findComment-1606802 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 (edited) X-Man Broken code in the [a]lternate... LF7FE: LDA #$00 ;2 STA $8C;3 ORA $8C in alternate LF802: JMP LF805;3 LF805: LDA $B0;3 The opcode had changed from $85 to $05. The [a]lternate is obviously a bad dump. Worm War I (PAL) Opcodes were corrupted in [a] (created from a bad dump). However, the timer value @ $F085 is specifically altered too. Only a few bytes in all had changed, so that is still beyond chance that the timer value was corrupted due to a bad dump. More like somebody had dumped the game badly, then tried to edit it. Your call if you want to keep it. Word Zapper (PAL) Another goofy change. The [a]lternate adjusts the timer values to spill 320 scanlines on the screen (original features 314). Neither is a bad dump. Wizard differs on the LSB of the interrupt vector only (which is not used). [a] is a bad dump (suspected)...tho it could be a version number ($13). Wing War (PAL) differs only on the referenced hotspots $1FF9 and $3FF8. They are $FF's in the original, and zeros in [a] (all other bytes in this area are zero). The [a]lternate suspected to be accurate, you can get rid of either. Walker (PAL) Only a timer change that sets [a] to 285 scanlines (original=304). This is an odd number, so PAL televisions lose color. Neither one is a bad dump, tho. Video Life A lot of code-shifting here. Needs side-by-side disassembly comparisons. Neither one is a bad dump. Vanguard only differs on the hotspots (including unreferenced ones). Impossible to tell which one is accurate, since there is garbage values $4A $FF in original, all zeros in the [a]lternate. Keep either one. Maybe the last file will give a clue... Vanguard (PAL) Garbage values on both files for the hotspots. Something interesting is that the [a]lternate uses values $4B $FF. Look at the NTSC version above The [a]lternate looks to be correct, keep either one. Edited October 20, 2008 by Nukey Shay Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/103737-2600-rom-comparisions-and-dumps/page/18/#findComment-1606814 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 (edited) Ok, ROMs REMOVED: Vanguard (1982) (Atari - GCC, Dave Payne) (CX2669) (PAL) [a] Vanguard (1982) (Atari - GCC, Dave Payne) (CX2669) [a] Wing War (Flap) (1983) (Imagic, Michael Greene) (EIZ-002-04I) (PAL) [a] X-Man (1983) (Universal Gamex Corporation, Alan Roberts, H.K. Poon) (1005) [a] The rest stays in. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I've removed 95 false [a]lternate ROMs from my collection now. Thanks to you, Nukey! Truly excellent work. Also many thanks to Omegamatrix for all the extra ROM info during this process. My current V4 collection now counts 1729 ROMs, which will go online around Christmas this year. Ok, this is important: Three [a]lternate versions turned out to be better versions than the originals that are available in most databases. River Raid II (1988) (Activision, David Lubar) (AK-048-04) [a] Sir Lancelot (1983) (Xonox - K-Tel Software, Anthony R. Henderson) (99006, 6220) [a] Trick Shot (1982) (Imagic, Dennis Koble) (720100-2B, IA3000P) (PAL) [a] I renamed them and here they are: Correct_versions_of_River_Raid_II__Sir_Lancelot_and_Trick_Shot.zip These will replace the ones that are currently in the Atarimania database and I would advice Albert to do the same. Nukey, one question left about Robin Hood (PAL) and Robin Hood (PAL) [a]: it doesn't matter which one can be removed, right? Now, some 20 ROMs from major companies still have true [a]lternate versions. I will make a list of those and try to specify what the differences are with the info that Nukey gave me. Perhaps Omegamatrix can help me with these too? It would be great to have these well documented in the V4 collection, so that people know what exactly the differences are, instead of just looking at a silly [a] Also, I'm going to take a closer look at the Arcadia / Starpath ROMs to find out which ones are actually Previews and which ones are not. Thanks again! Edited October 20, 2008 by Rom Hunter Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/103737-2600-rom-comparisions-and-dumps/page/18/#findComment-1606828 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukey Shay Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 Either one of the Robin Hoods can be removed. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/103737-2600-rom-comparisions-and-dumps/page/18/#findComment-1606836 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 Ok, thanks. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/103737-2600-rom-comparisions-and-dumps/page/18/#findComment-1606839 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 The strange thing is that only one Unknown Activision Game #1 proto cart has ever been found... Perhaps Tempest knows more about this. Actually there are two Unknown Game #1's. My website appears to be down at the moment, but there are two different versions in existance. Tempest Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/103737-2600-rom-comparisions-and-dumps/page/18/#findComment-1606842 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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