Wickeycolumbus Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 (edited) Okay, than a bad dump that Pole Position is. Sorry, I'm lost. Exactly which Pole Position dump is correct and which one isn't? In my opinion, my dump is correct and the ~ version is bad. Also, 5/22/83 (142) is not a prototype and should probably be marked as the original. Edited February 1, 2010 by Wickeycolumbus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 (edited) Ok, thanks. Nukey or Omega, can you confirm this? Edited February 1, 2010 by Rom Hunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegamatrix Posted February 1, 2010 Author Share Posted February 1, 2010 Okay, I misread Wickey's post originally. I thought he said his cart was a bad dump and I was just saying so be it. Now that I reread it I understand what he meant. I then got an idea and checked out the Pole Position pirated roms from CCE and Tron. I found the Tron cart matches Wickey's dump at $0FFA, $0FFB. However the CCE cart follows the ~ rom at those two addresses. My conclusion is that there are two roms floating around. One that CCE pirated, and the other that Tron pirated. Therefore both Wickey's and the ~ rom are valid, but did the current ~ rom really come from a Pole Position cart? Flip a coin. I can't tell as the differences in both carts don't affect the game play, and it is just garbage data from what I can see. @ Wickey, thanks for finding this alternate too! Please post anymore discoveries you come across. Always interesting stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 Ok, and what about the 5/22/83 proto? Is it 100% identical to the released version? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegamatrix Posted February 1, 2010 Author Share Posted February 1, 2010 Ok, and what about the 5/22/83 proto? Is it 100% identical to the released version? To be specific the 5/22/83 proto 100% matches the rom Wickey posted in post #786. So yeah that proto is a final version. Now if I had my dumper and game collection with me I'd try a couple of Pole Positions myself. I'm curious which ones have Wickey's rom in them, and which ones have the old ~ rom. It'd be nice to find some date stamps or the cart that belonged to one rom and not the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickeycolumbus Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 (edited) @ Wickey, thanks for finding this alternate too! Please post anymore discoveries you come across. Always interesting stuff. No problem! Ok, and what about the 5/22/83 proto? Is it 100% identical to the released version? I say the 5/22/83 should be original because I have two production carts that contain this ROM, and it is earlier than the 'final' version (which is 5/27/83 according to Tempest's site). Edit: oops, Omega beat me to it. Edited February 1, 2010 by Wickeycolumbus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mitch Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Hmm, maybe I should see how many Pole Position carts I have around and try dumping them. Mitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegamatrix Posted February 2, 2010 Author Share Posted February 2, 2010 Hmm, maybe I should see how many Pole Position carts I have around and try dumping them. Mitch Please do! It'd be interesting to see if one rom was a lot more prominant then the other, or if one rom was only available for Atari Corps, etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mitch Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 It seem I traded off all of my spares so I only have one copy left. It is an '83 Atari Inc version. Mitch POLE POSITION.BIN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 To be specific the 5/22/83 proto 100% matches the rom Wickey posted in post #786. You mean the ROM he posted in post #780, right? Post #786 is Dumbo's Flying Circus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickeycolumbus Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 It seem I traded off all of my spares so I only have one copy left. It is an '83 Atari Inc version. Mitch Looks like it is the same as my cart, except for the hot spots. Did you dump that with a 7800? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Mitch Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 It seem I traded off all of my spares so I only have one copy left. It is an '83 Atari Inc version. Mitch Looks like it is the same as my cart, except for the hot spots. Did you dump that with a 7800? Yes. Mitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegamatrix Posted February 3, 2010 Author Share Posted February 3, 2010 You mean the ROM he posted in post #780, right? Yes, of course. It seem I traded off all of my spares so I only have one copy left. It is an '83 Atari Inc version. Mitch Looks like it is the same as my cart, except for the hot spots. Did you dump that with a 7800? Yes. Mitch The 7800 dumper software leaves the hotspots blank. The only way to read them is to get one of Eckhard's newer versions, and then use the -a switch. Looks to be the same rom so far. Since Wickey dumped 2 of these and Mitch 1 it appears so far that this rom is much more prevelant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 To conclude: I remove the 5/22/83 Pole Position proto ROM from the collection and I leave the ~ one in as the original, right? Also, do I have to replace the ~ one in the collection with the ROM posted in #780 or isn't that needed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickeycolumbus Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 To conclude: I remove the 5/22/83 Pole Position proto ROM from the collection and I leave the ~ one in as the original, right? Also, do I have to replace the ~ one in the collection with the ROM posted in #780 or isn't that needed? No, 5/22/83 is a valid ROM, but it should not be marked as a prototype. In my opinion it should be marked as the original. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 (edited) Please explain me why exactly that proto ROM should replace the ~ version in my collection. Is it closer to the original than the ~ version? Edited February 4, 2010 by Rom Hunter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickeycolumbus Posted February 4, 2010 Share Posted February 4, 2010 Please explain me why exactly that proto ROM should replace the ~ version in my collection. Is it closer to the original than the ~ version? Because it is not a prototype ROM after all, I found it on a production cartridge. The date is earlier than the current ~ version (which is 5/27/83 according to Tempest's site). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Yes, I understand that. But why should I replace the ~ version already in the collection? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickeycolumbus Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Yes, I understand that. But why should I replace the ~ version already in the collection? I thought the idea behind the ~ version is that it is the most original/earliest ROM. If this is true, 5/22/83 is the most original so it should be marked ~. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Ah, I see. I'm sorry, I have to explain this. The ~ stands for: - The first version of a released game. or: - The most complete version of an unreleased game. So I don't think there's any need to keep the Pole Position proto in the collection, if it's identical to the ~ version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickeycolumbus Posted February 6, 2010 Share Posted February 6, 2010 Ah, I see. I'm sorry, I have to explain this. The ~ stands for: - The first version of a released game. or: - The most complete version of an unreleased game. Then the 5/22/83 version fits the bill It is the first version of a released game. So I don't think there's any need to keep the Pole Position proto in the collection, if it's identical to the ~ version. No, it absolutely needs to stay in the collection. It is not identical to the ~ version. I think you are a bit confused. The 5/22/83 version was originally dumped from a Pole Position prototype, but I later found the same ROM on a production cartridge. Therefore, the ROM should not be marked as a prototype. Since the ROM is earlier than the current ~ version, 5/22/83 should be called the original, and the others should be marked as alternates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omegamatrix Posted February 7, 2010 Author Share Posted February 7, 2010 Well, I see there is some confusion between you guys. I'll try to summerize what we know. The 5/22/83 prototype is the final version. Wickey found it on 2 carts, Mitch on 1 cart. The "~" rom in V5 is different from these released versions. I'm really hoping more Pole Positions can be dumped and matched to this "~" rom. Since a pirate company also had the same data in their rom (and these differences don't seem to be used for anything), it's likely they were copied from the cart as is. However a good dump does not imply that the "~" rom came from a Pole Position cart. It just means whatever cart it was dumped from didn't get F'd in the process. I really want to see this rom dumped from an actual Pole Position cart. Until then who really knows where it came from? Again this is a sourcing issue. We can't be sure. I'm in agreement with Wickey on changing the 5/22/83 prototype to the "~" version. My reason is that this rom has been verified as being on a production cart three times now, and the old "~" rom zero times. Maybe take the current rom marked "~" right now and put it to the side. Leave it out of the collection until someone can prove 100% that it comes from a Pole Position cart with a rom dump. Anyhow that's where I stand. If more people could dump their Pole Position carts, it'd be much appreciated. Help us find the match to this rom! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Hunter Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Crystal clear. Ok, I changed the proto ROM into the ~ version and I changed the old ~ version into an [a] version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer4x4 Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 Rom Hunter, What does "Fixed" mean? Is it documented anywhere what was "Fixed"? As for obtaining dumps, can an adapter to a eprom burned be made? If so, I might be able to read all of mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickeycolumbus Posted February 7, 2010 Share Posted February 7, 2010 As for obtaining dumps, can an adapter to a eprom burned be made? If so, I might be able to read all of mine. It should be possible to make an adapter for your burner, but it would be hard (maybe impossible) to dump anything over 4K. What do you have? Perhaps I can help you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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