2600 Rom Comparisions and Dumps

[Omegamatrix]

However, if I took a Windows 95 disc and installed it today what year would it default to?

I just installed Win'95 using "Virtual PC", and the majority of files are dated 8/24/96.

I don't think Omega was referring to dates of the files on the install disc, but rather if one took a brand new machine of that vintage and turned it on and set it up for the first time, doing a clean install of Win95, what dates would be assigned to any newly-created files on that system, assuming the user did not bother to set the system date and time properly? I'm thinking this would likely not be a property of Windows, but rather the motherboard BIOS. If you happen to have a machine of that vintage on hand, simply removing the the lithium CMOS backup battery for a minute while powered off should reset the system time and date to its default. Running one with a dead or missing battery would have the same effect every time you turn it on.

Yeah, I didn't even think about your motherboard setting the date. I guess I never paid attention to this before or I would have remembered that I didn't need to reset the date when I wiped my computer.

[Omegamatrix]

So I'm know wondering if the [a] version was never a final version, and just a proto all the time? Does anyone else have a released version of Super Breakout that they want to dump? The more dumps we get, the better!! We need to figure out if both versions of Super Breakout were released, or just one of them. The only way to do that is with many rom dump samples to compare.

I see.

 

So the [a] version in V6 could be a prototype version after all.

 

BTW: what's there to say about that temp2600.BIN

 

Yep. Over the next few days I'm going to be looking at Gravitar as well. The late released proto (4 days later) has differences over the final. I disassembled it, and I'm just making a integrated disassembly with the other version. This is another one that I want to verify on which is the final version, and which is not?

 

 

I know I at least have a Silver Gravitar I can dump, and maybe a gutted red one. It just seems very strange that more changes are being done after the final is released (if that's the case). Perhaps David's proto had the wrong date written on it like Matt suggests? This is another game where if people can volunteer rom dumps, well it would really help put this question to rest. Other than that, maybe the disassembly will shed some light.

 

 

Finally the only difference between the ~ and the 4\8\1983 proto is the hotspots. But at this point, I'm not sure if either is the final.

[Omegamatrix]

BTW: what's there to say about that temp2600.BIN

Haven't looked at it yet. It's last on the list.

[Omegamatrix]

Lucky Man dumped his NTSC Wall Defender.

 

http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/117831-who-owns-a-ntsc-z-tack/page__view__findpost__p__1998434

 

 

The old dump was 280 scanlines. I've always suspected that it was not the correct dump. The new dump is 260 scanlines. There is a whole pile of data that is different between them, which I would guess is colors. I don't have time to check ATM. I got to write my last final, move, and start a new job all within a week.

 

 

Three of the NTSC Bomb roms have now been checked:

 

Great Escape

Wall Defender

Z-Tack

 

In each case the original rom was wrong. I still think these bad roms came from the TV boy, but who knows? Assault is the only rom left to be checked. I felt like it was the strongest contender to be true out of all the old rom dumps (because of scanline count), but after seeing all the others were wrong I'm not too confident in it either.

 

 

Anyhow, big thanks to Lucky Man and Mitch once again! I'm going to go update the first post in this thread now.

[Rom Hunter]

In each case the original rom was wrong. I still think these bad roms came from the TV boy, but who knows?

Exactly.

 

That's why it's called Wall Break (Unknown).bin in V6 now.

 

Assault is the only rom left to be checked. I felt like it was the strongest contender to be true out of all the old rom dumps (because of scanline count), but after seeing all the others were wrong I'm not too confident in it either.

I still am.

 

It counts exactly 260 (not 262) scanlines, just like Z-Tack and Wall-Defender.

 

Wall-Defender was the one that worried me the most.

 

Great game, btw.

 

Edited April 27, 2010 by Rom Hunter

[Rom Hunter]

You may want to wait a bit longer, I'm expecting something new in the next week or so

This has nothing to do with the dumped Wall-Defender, right?

 

[Wickeycolumbus]

You may want to wait a bit longer, I'm expecting something new in the next week or so

This has nothing to do with the dumped Wall-Defender, right?

 

 

No. I'm expecting a couple new WIPs in the next few days. I will keep you all posted

[Omegamatrix]

Assault is the only rom left to be checked. I felt like it was the strongest contender to be true out of all the old rom dumps (because of scanline count), but after seeing all the others were wrong I'm not too confident in it either.

I still am.

 

It counts exactly 260 (not 262) scanlines, just like Z-Tack and Wall-Defender.

 

I left it on the first post as needing to be dumped. I'm doing this because 3 out 4 roms wrong is pretty bad. We can't just assusme it's good without checking.

 

 

I did however check all the old Bomb roms, and Assault is very likely to be correct for a different reason then just scanlines. It looks like many colors where changed between the PAL and NTSC versions, as well as the timing. The other incorrect roms just had changes done to the timing of the game (the most simplistic of conversions).

 

 

I should point out that changing the timing of your game (between PAL and NTSC) will change the colors of the game, but the color updates I'm talking about here are the color tables inside of the rom.

[Omegamatrix]

After looking at the disassemblies for both Gravitar (04\08\1983) and (04\12\1983) protos, I have concluded that the April 12 version is an earlier version by maybe of few days. Either the wrong date was written down or the date was read wrong. It is possible that a slash could be read as a "1" and the actual date is 4\2\1983. Did you ever have a picture of the written date, Matt?

 

 

Anyhow here's a few of visual differences. April 08 (final version) is on the left, and the "April 12" version is on the right.

 

When you enter the base reactor the final version has your ship facing down. This in the direction you want to go. The other proto has it facing up.

 

 

Solar system 2 - the far right planet has a differences in one of its walls. The final version has a thicker left wall making it harder to manuever.

 

 

Solar system 3 - the topmost planet has differences in its outer walls. The final version has thicker outer walls making it harder to manuever.

[Omegamatrix]

This is the integrated disassembly, and roms for comparision:

 

Gravitar.zip

 

 

I'll talk about a few of the code differences. Here we see the final version saving a byte (which is more efficient, and doing something extra).

    ldx    #0                    ; 2
   lda    $BA                   ; 3

 IF APRIL_08

   cmp    #UNK_01               ; 2
   bne    LB3D9                 ; 2³  branch, if A not equal to $8C
   inx                          ; 2   saves a byte, more efficent...

 ELSE

   bne    LB3D9                 ; 2³   branch, if A not equal to zero
   ldx    #1                    ; 2

 ENDIF

LB3D9:
   stx    $F1                   ; 3
   lda    #<LF81D               ; 2
   sta    $FA                   ; 3
   lda    #>LF81D               ; 2

 

 

And here, we see the new code in the final version to decide whether to face a ship upwards in the base reactor:

LF81D:  ; indirect jump also

 IF APRIL_08

   lda    $F1                   ; 3
   beq    LF827                 ; 2³
   lda    #UNK_01               ; 2
   sta    $BA                   ; 3
LF827:
   lda    #$0F                  ; 2
   sta    $A0                   ; 3
   lda    #$50                  ; 2
   sta    $9F                   ; 3
LF82D:
   lda    #0                    ; 2
   sta    REFP1                 ; 3
   sta    $A7                   ; 3
   sta    $A8                   ; 3
   sta    $A9                   ; 3
   sta    $AA                   ; 3
   sta    $AB                   ; 3
   sta    $AC                   ; 3
   sta    $C1                   ; 3
   ldx    $81                   ; 3   choose to make the ship face up or down upon a new screen
   cpx    #4                    ; 2
   bne    LF849                 ; 2³  A=0, ship faces up
   lda    #8                    ; 2   A=8, ship faces down
LF849:
   sta    $A3                   ; 3

 ELSE

   lda    #$FF                  ; 2
   sta    $F2                   ; 3
   lda    #$A8                  ; 2
   sta    $F0                   ; 3

   lda    #$0F                  ; 2
   sta    $A0                   ; 3
   lda    #$50                  ; 2
   sta    $9F                   ; 3
LF82D:
   lda    #0                    ; 2
   sta    REFP1                 ; 3
   sta    $A3                   ; 3   storing 0 in $A3 makes the ship face up
   sta    $A7                   ; 3
   sta    $A8                   ; 3
   sta    $A9                   ; 3
   sta    $AA                   ; 3
   sta    $AB                   ; 3
   sta    $AC                   ; 3
   sta    $C1                   ; 3

  ENDIF

 

Here, only the final version makes sense:

    jsr    LFE7E                 ; 6
   jsr    LFE9A                 ; 6
LF5D6:
   ldx    #0                    ; 2

 IF APRIL_08
   stx    ENAM0                 ; 3   this makes sense, as loading X with 0 has a purpose
 ENDIF

   lda    $9E                   ; 3
   jsr    LFE7E                 ; 6   X is not used here,
   sty    $B5                   ; 3
   sta    $B6                   ; 3
   jsr    LF045                 ; 6   and X is not used here either!
   ldy    #2                    ; 2
   jsr    LFEA7                 ; 6   X gets reloaded, and then used in this subroutine... so loading X with 0 only affected ENAM0
   lda    $99                   ; 3
   beq    LF605                 ; 2³

 

 

Now, the CCE version follows the April 08 version of Gravitar as well. The differences between the CCE rom and the April 08 rom is only in the CCE logo, and the hotspots. I'm still going to dump my Gravitars later on, but I fully expect them to be like the April 08 version.

[Tempest]

No I don't have a picture of that unfortunately. I'll update my page with your findings though.

 

Tempest

[Omegamatrix]

Rom, you have these in your V5 collection:

 

Gravitar (04-08-1983) (Atari, Dan Hitchens) (CX2685) (Prototype).bin

Gravitar (1983) (Atari, Dan Hitchens) (CX2685) ~.bin

 

 

They are one and the same, except at that hotspots ($00 vs $FF). I'm thinking the April 04 version should be the ~. I'll let you know when I dump my Gravitar what I see at the hotspots.

 

 

What I'm getting at eliminating an entry for the proto, and just having a "~". Depending how the roms were dumped are causing the differences here. I also think you've taken out final versions of protos before, haven't you? So I just have to look to see what should be made "~", either the old "~" or the April 08 proto.

[+stephena]

I don't know if this has been mentioned before (and I don't feel like searching through the previous 24 pages), but you might want to check out the various ROMs that make up multicart compilations. Stella has a 'virtual' bankswitch scheme for several variations, including 2in1, 4in1, 8in1, 16in1 and 32in1. This support works by internally splitting the large ROM image into pieces based on the size. For example, if you specify 4in1 on a 16K ROM, it assumes there are four 4K ROMs. The nice part about this is that it uses the ROM properties as if each ROM had been loaded separately (ie, if you load the first 4K of a 4in1 16K image, it looks for the MD5 of that 4K ROM, just as if you'd tried that ROM directly).

 

Because of the way that Stella works wrt multicart mode, you can easily see if a ROM has been named properly. For example, the "4 Game in One Light Green" includes the title "Light Green" in each of the subroms, but the "4 Game in One Dark Green" isn't as consistent. Maybe you could go through all such ROMs and check for consistent naming.

 

Also, Stella 3.1 includes support for 16in1, which ironically enough works with the 64K '128 in 1' ROMs, where there are 16 4K games. This is the first time this ROM has been natively supported in an emulator, so maybe you'll want to look at the names of each of its subroms as well.

[Rom Hunter]

What I'm getting at eliminating an entry for the proto, and just having a "~". Depending how the roms were dumped are causing the differences here. I also think you've taken out final versions of protos before, haven't you? So I just have to look to see what should be made "~", either the old "~" or the April 08 proto.

I do not add final protos if they are 100% identical to the released version.

 

If a certain title only exists as a proto (in other words: was never officially released), then the most completed version of that proto will carry a ~ in the filename.

 

So the April 12 (or April 2) version is a new one for the collection, right?

 

Edited April 27, 2010 by Rom Hunter

[Omegamatrix]

I do not add final protos if they are 100% identical to the released version.

 

If a certain title only exists as a proto (in other words: was never officially released), then the most completed version of that proto will carry a ~ in the filename.

That's what I thought you did. I agree with you 100% on this.

 

 

So the April 12 (or April 2) version is a new one for the collection, right?

Nope, you already have the April 12 proto in there. Since we can't be certain of the date, you'll just have to leave the date on it as is. Or, I suppose you could ask David Winter to check the date again (if he still has the proto).

 

 

So the last thing to do is remove the the April 08 proto rom, and decide whether the current "~" or the April 08 proto rom should become the new "~". I'll dump my Gravitar(s), and let you know as my dumper can read the hotspots. This will happen next week.

[Rom Hunter]

Excellent.

 

Thanks.

 

[Wickeycolumbus]

You may want to wait a bit longer, I'm expecting something new in the next week or so

This has nothing to do with the dumped Wall-Defender, right?

 

 

No. I'm expecting a couple new WIPs in the next few days. I will keep you all posted

 

Here you go.

[Omegamatrix]

Very nicely presented too, Wickey!

 

 

 

You're starting to give Wonder a little competition!

[Tempest]

Very nicely presented too, Wickey!

 

 

 

You're starting to give Wonder a little competition!

Not to mention me.

 

Tempest

[Wickeycolumbus]

Very nicely presented too, Wickey!

 

 

 

You're starting to give Wonder a little competition!

Not to mention me.

 

Tempest

 

You're still into collecting prototypes? I thought you sold off all your stuff. Cool

[Tempest]

Very nicely presented too, Wickey!

 

 

 

You're starting to give Wonder a little competition!

Not to mention me.

 

Tempest

 

You're still into collecting prototypes? I thought you sold off all your stuff. Cool

Oh I did (Wonder owns them), I meant your review of the prototype differences.

 

Tempest

[Wickeycolumbus]

Very nicely presented too, Wickey!

 

 

 

You're starting to give Wonder a little competition!

Not to mention me.

 

Tempest

 

You're still into collecting prototypes? I thought you sold off all your stuff. Cool

Oh I did (Wonder owns them), I meant your review of the prototype differences.

 

Tempest

 

Ah, I see. No one reviews them like you though

[Omegamatrix]

1) The old dump for Tomarc is a bad dump. I've placed the good dump here:

 

http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/158247-anyone-having-a-problem-with-tomarc/page__view__findpost__p__2003594

 

2) Rom, I dumped 2 Gravitars (1 silver, 1 red). Both 100% match the April 8th proto. Get rid of the rom that currently has the "~", and change the April 8th proto to the "~".

 

3) I dumped 2 Super Breakouts. They both 100% match the [a] version in V5 collection. Tempest's 1-4-81 proto also matches this. I'm not sure what to make of this one yet. I might have to disassemble both roms in the future.

 

4) I couldn't find my PAL Title Match Pro Wrestling. Still Looking.

 

5) I had most of Tempest disassembled, but I left it on a flash drive at my old place. So I'll have to start over. I'm not going to look at this for at least a week or so.

[Rom Hunter]

Thanks, Omega.

 

I'll make the changes.

 

Also added the two Atari Children's proto's from Wickey.

 

[Tempest]

So just so I have this straight. The 4/12 version of Gravitar has the tiny differences while the 4/8 version is the same as the final? Perhaps those are backwards? Maybe I got them mixed up?

 

Tempest