TI 99/4a Tutankham Prototype

[+save2600]

Hi all, I remember reading recently that somebody just acquired this in cart form for their TI99 computer. It was even reviewed. Is this cartridge now available somewhere? If so, how do I get my hands on one?

[Buyatari]

What joke that was.

 

The author or atleast someone who worked on the game posted it over at DP awhile back. He was only interested in selling to "serious" collectors and wanted 4 or 5k for the thing. He had 2 of them and planned to keep the other one for a later sale or to relase the rom in case the person who bought it tried to sell copies of the game.

 

Maybe he works for Sothebys these days?

[Tempest]

It exists. I have pictures of it running, and it looks good (looks like the Colecovision version). I'm not at liberty to say who the owner is however.

 

Tempest

[Tempest]

What joke that was.

 

The author or atleast someone who worked on the game posted it over at DP awhile back. He was only interested in selling to "serious" collectors and wanted 4 or 5k for the thing. He had 2 of them and planned to keep the other one for a later sale or to relase the rom in case the person who bought it tried to sell copies of the game.

 

Maybe he works for Sothebys these days?

 

An unreleased prototype going for 4K? That doesn't sound too far out of line to me. People are willing to pay big bucks for unreleased games, espcially if it's for a system they love.

 

Tempest

[Buyatari]

What joke that was.

 

The author or atleast someone who worked on the game posted it over at DP awhile back. He was only interested in selling to "serious" collectors and wanted 4 or 5k for the thing. He had 2 of them and planned to keep the other one for a later sale or to relase the rom in case the person who bought it tried to sell copies of the game.

 

Maybe he works for Sothebys these days?

 

An unreleased prototype going for 4K? That doesn't sound too far out of line to me. People are willing to pay big bucks for unreleased games, espcially if it's for a system they love.

 

Tempest

 

I've seen a few unreleased games sell for 4-5k. They are either cult favs Resident Evil,Castlevania,Earthbound,Final Fantasy etc and/or they can be repackaged and sold ala Combat 2. In all cases it was a known 1 of a kind with freedom to do whatever the buyer pleased.

 

I just can't see it for a TI game that isn't even one of a kind. What if he sells the other copy and the new owner dumps the ROM of the other copy the next month? For $500 its worth the risk but not 4-5k. Then again you can't stop a fool from spending any ammount of money. The SNES comp cart sold for 10k !!

[Tempest]

What joke that was.

 

The author or atleast someone who worked on the game posted it over at DP awhile back. He was only interested in selling to "serious" collectors and wanted 4 or 5k for the thing. He had 2 of them and planned to keep the other one for a later sale or to relase the rom in case the person who bought it tried to sell copies of the game.

 

Maybe he works for Sothebys these days?

 

An unreleased prototype going for 4K? That doesn't sound too far out of line to me. People are willing to pay big bucks for unreleased games, espcially if it's for a system they love.

 

Tempest

 

I've seen a few unreleased games sell for 4-5k. They are either cult favs Resident Evil,Castlevania,Earthbound,Final Fantasy etc and/or they can be repackaged and sold ala Combat 2. In all cases it was a known 1 of a kind with freedom to do whatever the buyer pleased.

 

I just can't see it for a TI game that isn't even one of a kind. What if he sells the other copy and the new owner dumps the ROM of the other copy the next month? For $500 its worth the risk but not 4-5k. Then again you can't stop a fool from spending any ammount of money. The SNES comp cart sold for 10k !!

 

You're looking at it purely in a financial sense. Yes, if the owner bought the prototype to either sell copies (which I believe they were asked not to by the seller), or as an investment, then it wasn't a great deal. However I know the buyer and they bought it because they love the TI and they wanted this prototype as a prize for their collection and to make sure that it wasn't lost forever. Now the game is perserved and the buyer has an absolute gem for his collection. They're happy and that's what counts.

 

Tempest

[Buyatari]

If you spend that kind of money I don't feel "conditions" are fair.

 

Ok you have a happy buyer. The guy who spent 10k on the SNES comp cart is happy too. I don't have the guidelines for happiness only reasonable buying practices. I'm sure you are sticking up for him because he is your friend but you have to admit he way overpaid. He can't release the ROM and he can't sell repos I feel he spent way too much.

 

Then again I didn't think anyone would spend 10k on the SNES comp cart but someone did and he is happy too.

 

What joke that was.

 

The author or atleast someone who worked on the game posted it over at DP awhile back. He was only interested in selling to "serious" collectors and wanted 4 or 5k for the thing. He had 2 of them and planned to keep the other one for a later sale or to relase the rom in case the person who bought it tried to sell copies of the game.

 

Maybe he works for Sothebys these days?

 

An unreleased prototype going for 4K? That doesn't sound too far out of line to me. People are willing to pay big bucks for unreleased games, espcially if it's for a system they love.

 

Tempest

 

I've seen a few unreleased games sell for 4-5k. They are either cult favs Resident Evil,Castlevania,Earthbound,Final Fantasy etc and/or they can be repackaged and sold ala Combat 2. In all cases it was a known 1 of a kind with freedom to do whatever the buyer pleased.

 

I just can't see it for a TI game that isn't even one of a kind. What if he sells the other copy and the new owner dumps the ROM of the other copy the next month? For $500 its worth the risk but not 4-5k. Then again you can't stop a fool from spending any ammount of money. The SNES comp cart sold for 10k !!

 

You're looking at it purely in a financial sense. Yes, if the owner bought the prototype to either sell copies (which I believe they were asked not to by the seller), or as an investment, then it wasn't a great deal. However I know the buyer and they bought it because they love the TI and they wanted this prototype as a prize for their collection and to make sure that it wasn't lost forever. Now the game is perserved and the buyer has an absolute gem for his collection. They're happy and that's what counts.

 

Tempest

[JL]

This has been covered many, many times before, but dumping the ROM will have no virtually no effect on the value of the prototype. What it does do is reduce the market for a "collector's" /replica cartridge issue, although I've never seen that for the TI. Probably due to significantly lower interest then say the 2600. Of course more copies of the proto hitting the market would drop the value like a stone, as it's it no longer 1 of a kind.

 

JL

 

 

I've seen a few unreleased games sell for 4-5k. They are either cult favs Resident Evil,Castlevania,Earthbound,Final Fantasy etc and/or they can be repackaged and sold ala Combat 2. In all cases it was a known 1 of a kind with freedom to do whatever the buyer pleased.

 

I just can't see it for a TI game that isn't even one of a kind. What if he sells the other copy and the new owner dumps the ROM of the other copy the next month? For $500 its worth the risk but not 4-5k. Then again you can't stop a fool from spending any ammount of money. The SNES comp cart sold for 10k !!

Edited June 26, 2007 by JL

[Tempest]

I'm sure you are sticking up for him because he is your friend but you have to admit he way overpaid. He can't release the ROM and he can't sell repos I feel he spent way too much.

 

I stopped judging what a "fair price" for a prototype was a long time ago. I used to think that anyone who paid over $300 for a prototype was nuts, but now that's considered chump change by most proto people. The sky's the limit with prototype prices these days. Is a prototype worth $4K? Depends on who you ask. You say no, they say yes, and I say maybe.

 

Tempest

[Buyatari]

This has been covered many, many times before, but dumping the ROM will have no virtually no effect on the value of the prototype. What it does do is reduce the market for a "collector's" /replica cartridge issue, although I've never seen that for the TI. Probably due to significantly lower interest then say the 2600. Of course more copies of the proto hitting the market would drop the value like a stone, as it's it no longer 1 of a kind.

 

JL

 

Yes this has been covered before and not only is it my theory that prototypes sell for less after they have been dumped it has a proven track record.

 

You honestly think this guy would have spent 4-5k if the ROM was already on the net?

[JL]

This has been covered many, many times before, but dumping the ROM will have no virtually no effect on the value of the prototype. What it does do is reduce the market for a "collector's" /replica cartridge issue, although I've never seen that for the TI. Probably due to significantly lower interest then say the 2600. Of course more copies of the proto hitting the market would drop the value like a stone, as it's it no longer 1 of a kind.

 

JL

 

Yes this has been covered before and not only is it my theory that prototypes sell for less after they have been dumped it has a proven track record.

 

You honestly think this guy would have spent 4-5k if the ROM was already on the net?

 

Wrong and Yes.

 

http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?s...82101&st=25

 

Please read the last 5 or 6 posts in the above thread. In it you will see that Matt, Albert and noted prototype buyer, Wonder007 are in agreement that the existence of a dump is irrelevant to the value of a proto. The people who buy them aren't after a rom image, they want a one of a kind (or rarity 12+) grail item. This myth that a dump lowers a proto's value hurts all of us in the community!

Edited June 26, 2007 by JL

[Buyatari]

This has been covered many, many times before, but dumping the ROM will have no virtually no effect on the value of the prototype. What it does do is reduce the market for a "collector's" /replica cartridge issue, although I've never seen that for the TI. Probably due to significantly lower interest then say the 2600. Of course more copies of the proto hitting the market would drop the value like a stone, as it's it no longer 1 of a kind.

 

JL

 

Yes this has been covered before and not only is it my theory that prototypes sell for less after they have been dumped it has a proven track record.

 

You honestly think this guy would have spent 4-5k if the ROM was already on the net?

 

Wrong and Yes.

 

http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?s...82101&st=25

 

Please read the last 5 or 6 posts in the above thread. In it you will see that Matt, Albert and noted prototype buyer, Wonder007 are in agreement that the existence of a dump is irrelevant to the value of a proto. The people who buy them aren't after a rom image, they want a one of a kind (or rarity 12+) grail item. This myth that a dump lowers a proto's value hurts all of us in the community!

 

YOU have to go back and read that again. Al and Tempest dance around the issue saying that protos would still have a value not that they would never go down in price. Wonder does agree with you and will all due respect I must say that Wonder has just not been collecting long enough. He will change his tune over time. If he can pay less for that next proto because it has already been dumped he will. Reguardless of what they said or not those are not "facts" I'm looking for real facts not hopefull wishes meant to keep the roms coming.

 

I'm basing my statement on facts.

 

This one is harder to prove but I know several prototype collectors who are in the market right now to purchase prototypes for 4 digits. All of them agree that they would pay less for a dumped prototype over an unreleased never seen before prototype. These are not Atari collectors for the most part except DreamTR. When something has a price of 4k even one potential buyer backing out affects the price. Al himself has paid out a good deal of money for the unreleased UA games prototypes but he only did so because they were not dumped and he wanted to sell copies. Had they been dumped he would not have needed to buy them. If Al believes a proto keeps it value after its been dumped it because Al would like to sell it for what he paid for after he is done with it. In truth do you see him buying protos that have been dumped? No , he has no use for them.

 

California Raisins was found a few years back the guy who found it was a real nice guy and dumped it before he sold it. At the time there were offers for 4k (from DreamTR,myself and others) and in the end he recieved ~$500 for the cart because he dumped it against the wishes of the potential buyers. This is the clearest example you will ever find. Sega Sonic Crackers is another good example.

[TheRedEye]

California Raisins was found a few years back the guy who found it was a real nice guy and dumped it before he sold it. At the time there were offers for 4k (from DreamTR,myself and others) and in the end he recieved ~$500 for the cart because he dumped it against the wishes of the potential buyers. This is the clearest example you will ever find. Sega Sonic Crackers is another good example.

 

Nitpicky, but to set the record straight, it was $750 (and I think the highest offer was $3k, from 'NES God,' but I can't verify that). Your point still stands though, and it's pretty much undeniable that the monetary value of one-of-a-kind game code drops when it is no longer one-of-a-kind.

 

I recognize this, and sympathize with it, but the difference between people like Tempest, Wonder and me, and collectors such as buyatari, is that I separate my hobby from my income source. I don't NEED unreleased code to be worth money, because I have a job that pays me well, and the prospect of selling video games bores the hell out of me. I don't try to profit off of games, I'm happy to (at best) get back the money I spend or (at worst) lose a small chunk of change selling it at a loss or trading it, because in the end I get to play the game for significantly less than I would have paid otherwise.

 

It's unfortunate that neither "side" is ever going to change their views, and that it comes down to a competitive race to see who gets to these things first: the historian enthusiasts who just want to play the game, or the collectors who need to "protect" their "investments." I really wish collectors would find ways to make money other than holding history for ransom, but it's not going to change, no matter how often this argument comes up.

 

So JL, you're wrong. Sorry. The "market" value drops significantly after code is copied, there's really no way to argue against that, and the only contrary examples (the second Earthbound proto, for instance) were freak occurrences perpetuated by uninformed buyers. I'm much less interested in the price drop argument than I am in the thought that maybe we shouldn't put a price on history, but we're not going to change human nature, fellas. People want to make money, not everyone is in it for the love.

Edited June 27, 2007 by TheRedEye

[Buyatari]

I'm pretty sure DreamTR was ready to spend 4k and I was up there with him but yeah its just spliting hairs and the prices offered don't mean anything because it was dumped and those high offers were never finalized.

 

Its hard to prove but really there is no debate when it comes to protos and value once it has been dumped. The debate as you say is should they be dumped reguardless. Some say yes some say no I say it depends.

 

The dumpers love to take the high road and make themselves out to be better than collectors and I always found that amusing. What you do is your business and what someone else does is his business. No one "deserves" anything and unreleased protos aren't virtual Pinocchios with ambitions of one day becoming released games. Provided the owner has the proto backed up it will be preserved.

 

When you ask people who collect videogame what would be the most exciting find many will reply with an unreleased undumped proto. That dream is very much part of this hobby. The unwrapped christmas present gets so many more oohhh and aaaahhhs before its known to be just socks and underwear.

 

You want to preserve them just back them up. You want others to enjoy them bring them to the large conventions. I've brought unreleased one of a kind protos to every convention I've been to. To be honest no one seems to care and they don't even get looked at. Everyone is too buzy looking for that $10 Flintsones 2 cart. Guess they care about money too. While there are a few that really care about the details of every game every worked on they are few and far between. I honestly feel more people just want for the sake of wanting. That goes for everyone both dumpers and collectors and as you said I guess it is just human nature.

[TheRedEye]

You want to preserve them just back them up. You want others to enjoy them bring them to the large conventions. I've brought unreleased one of a kind protos to every convention I've been to. To be honest no one seems to care and they don't even get looked at. Everyone is too buzy looking for that $10 Flintsones 2 cart. Guess they care about money too.

 

Well, sure. That's because these classic gaming conventions tend to be little more than a specialized flea market, which is why I don't go to CGE anymore. I don't collect games, so there is very little for me to do there besides play the handful of arcade machines or throw after-parties.

 

You say I want just for wanting, I say that my "want" is irrelevant. To be honest, I haven't even loaded up some of the one-of-a-kind games that Lost Levels has acquired. No joke, my desire is not to HAVE these games, my desire is to make sure history is not lost for current and future historians, and I feel that the only way to do this 100% right is to get all the info we can spread to the masses before something happens to it. I've seen too many stories of film being lost forever because no one bothered to properly preserve it in time. Orson Welles is a fantastic example. We've lost footage directed by the greatest film director of all time because no one bothered to save it while it was still around.

 

Of course, not every lost film was directed by someone like Welles, and it's not a perfect example. I know better than most anybody that 99% of games that didn't come out are shit, and I'm not arguing against that. They're shit, and I'm going to load them up once or twice as a curiosity and then never touch them again. My question to you, then, is WHY is this such a terrible thing?

 

California Raisins is a bad game. We dumped it, we put it on the internet, and now everyone's curiosity has been satiated, and they know it's a bad game. Yes, some "mystique" was lost, because the bad game is lying naked and exposed on the internet. But you know what? I got an email a few months ago from the sister of the guy who composed the music for California Raisins. Her brother had died recently, and thanks to that ROM being on the internet, she got to hear her dead brother's music for the first time. If I were to, as you suggest, limit the exposure of this game to specific conventions catered to people who collect video games, instead of blasting the information on the internet for everyone to enjoy, would she have EVER heard these songs?

 

Let me ask you a question. Straight up. If your house burned down right now, would we lose some gaming history forever? If, god forbid, you and your family got hit by a bus, are your games willed to someone who knows how to handle your items properly, and make sure those worthless looking CD-Rs aren't tossed?

[Buyatari]

The "mystique" is a big reason why I started collecting and why I get excited about videogames. Its also a part to varying degrees of every collector and gamer. Sure some games are nice to have dumped but its also nice to have a few that aren't. Histories mysteries are often as powerfull as its secrets. What really happened in Dallas when JFK was shot? What were these films about that are now long lost? Yes to the historian its a tragedy but to the dreamer what could have been is much more colorful than what was. Is that to say we should never play a single game and just dream about it.... no but to have one here and there adds flavor to the entire hobby.

 

The only time I'm in favor of a dump is if the game itself exceeds expectations. If its just a big let down and no one will play it more than once then why bother? You destory the mystique and reduce a collectable to a chip on a board. I've seen collectors get excited when you pull out a mint copy of a rare game but few get excitied about the board a prototype sits on esp if its a standard board. Traded down the line from person to person its now the shell game as to which ones are real and which ones are "homebrew"

 

I'm glad the sister saw your website and was happy to hear it. I still wish it was never dumped. If someone contacted me with a story like this about a game I had I'd make a copy of the music for them but wouldn't dump the game. I'm thinking she did a google search on his name and found the site. If it wasn't dumped would she have heard it? I still think so. On a side note man thats crazy about the music tech as I was just thinking about the death of the guy who dumped the game. We have our own hope diamond. The curse of California Raisins.....

 

None of the games I have are dumped. Not a one. If my house burned down they would all go up with the house. Now that has nothing to do with my stance on releasing games. It has to do with me being to lazy to back them up. If I died 99% of my entire collection is likely to end up on the curb released items and protos. My wife hates this stuff. I'm a bad example. I'm on the way out and my collection will be transfered to other collectors long before I am gone.

 

You want to preserve them just back them up. You want others to enjoy them bring them to the large conventions. I've brought unreleased one of a kind protos to every convention I've been to. To be honest no one seems to care and they don't even get looked at. Everyone is too buzy looking for that $10 Flintsones 2 cart. Guess they care about money too.

 

Well, sure. That's because these classic gaming conventions tend to be little more than a specialized flea market, which is why I don't go to CGE anymore. I don't collect games, so there is very little for me to do there besides play the handful of arcade machines or throw after-parties.

 

You say I want just for wanting, I say that my "want" is irrelevant. To be honest, I haven't even loaded up some of the one-of-a-kind games that Lost Levels has acquired. No joke, my desire is not to HAVE these games, my desire is to make sure history is not lost for current and future historians, and I feel that the only way to do this 100% right is to get all the info we can spread to the masses before something happens to it. I've seen too many stories of film being lost forever because no one bothered to properly preserve it in time. Orson Welles is a fantastic example. We've lost footage directed by the greatest film director of all time because no one bothered to save it while it was still around.

 

Of course, not every lost film was directed by someone like Welles, and it's not a perfect example. I know better than most anybody that 99% of games that didn't come out are shit, and I'm not arguing against that. They're shit, and I'm going to load them up once or twice as a curiosity and then never touch them again. My question to you, then, is WHY is this such a terrible thing?

 

California Raisins is a bad game. We dumped it, we put it on the internet, and now everyone's curiosity has been satiated, and they know it's a bad game. Yes, some "mystique" was lost, because the bad game is lying naked and exposed on the internet. But you know what? I got an email a few months ago from the sister of the guy who composed the music for California Raisins. Her brother had died recently, and thanks to that ROM being on the internet, she got to hear her dead brother's music for the first time. If I were to, as you suggest, limit the exposure of this game to specific conventions catered to people who collect video games, instead of blasting the information on the internet for everyone to enjoy, would she have EVER heard these songs?

 

Let me ask you a question. Straight up. If your house burned down right now, would we lose some gaming history forever? If, god forbid, you and your family got hit by a bus, are your games willed to someone who knows how to handle your items properly, and make sure those worthless looking CD-Rs aren't tossed?

[sometimes99er]

Hi all, I remember reading recently that somebody just acquired this in cart form for their TI99 computer. It was even reviewed. Is this cartridge now available somewhere? If so, how do I get my hands on one?

A simple Google on "ti 99 tutankham" could take you to this one: http://www.videogamehouse.net/tutankham.html

 

Also a bit of info here: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ti99-4a/message/46783

 

And of course: http://www.digitpress.com/library/intervie...eve_zedeck.html

 

[Foxsolo2000]

Perhaps it would be a good thing if all the held prototypes simply fell subject to bit rot for at least it would put a stop to the insane bidding wars and hard currency being spent just to keep them out of public circulation. Bidders have every right to do with these roms what they want but from a personal point of view I cannot help but frown upon what are often seen as selfish practices by keeping the one of a kind roms locked away. God forbid me for saying this but perhaps it would be better had none of them been found for that way the many amongst us woudl not feel so saddened about never satisfying our curiosities about them. On a final point, these games were made to be played, not to be locked away and it could be argued that they survived for a reason but for many their purpose will never be fulfilled

[Jess Ragan]

The late owner of the California Raisins prototype did a commendable thing by sharing the game with the world. It doesn't really matter that it sucked; he brought closure to gamers who read the review of California Raisins in Video Games & Computer Entertainment, but never had the chance to play the game. His generosity was greatly appreciated, and conspicuously absent from the majority of video game collectors.