Bee Ball - 2600

[LS_Dracon]

Hi people.

 

New version avaliable, and I think it's final version!

 

- Added serve rules (like in old volleyball rules). You need serve ball to score a point.

See the pointer in score.

- Added title screen music (Sorry Nathan, it's best I can do)

- Changed options menu fonts

- Codes optimizations

- Revised all game speeds (player movement and ball gravity)

- Finally, new AI code (but not means better AI code, still the basic)

- Fixed many (I hope all) bugs in net collision

- Added ball graphic trick

- And others things.

 

1 - The PAL version is a little slow, but not affect the game play.

2 - All speeds are slow, compared previous demos, more easy to play.

2 - There is a bug when screen freeze by match over, screen jump 1 pixel, I'll fix it soon.

3 - Since I have no ROM space, this is the final version. I have 20 bytes free, and keep them to fix possible bugs. If you find bugs (except in screen freeze) please, tell me.

 

Enjoy

BeeBall_PAL_6.0.bin

Edited November 15, 2007 by LS_Dracon

[Blackjack]

I think it's great...... the AI isn't nearly as good as before, but it's passable.

[+Nathan Strum]

The AI does seem easier - I beat him 10 - 0 on the first game. But that could be in part because of the serve rules. He can't score on you as easily now.

 

Are the serve rules optional, or mandatory? Maybe optional would be better.

 

Even so, the computer does periodically just drop the ball, swing and miss at his own setup, or bounce it back off his edge of the screen for no apparent reason. Plus, he seems to respond to you a little more slowly than before.

 

I think the title screen music is nice - but if there was a choice between music and better AI, I think I'd have to go for better AI.

 

Also, I've found a sweet spot to stay in when you're receiving the serve:

 

 

If you stay in about that spot, and hit the fire button to spike the ball, you'll nearly always get a point.

 

Edit: After a few minutes of practice, I can beat the AI every game now.

 

Here's a QuickTime movie of what's going on:

 

http://muse2.calarts.edu/~nstrum/misc/beeball_web.mov

 

Bee Ball is an awesome game... but it really needs better AI to go along with it.

Edited November 10, 2007 by Nathan Strum

[Mord]

The AI does seem easier - I beat him 10 - 0 on the first game. But that could be in part because of the serve rules. He can't score on you as easily now.

 

Are the serve rules optional, or mandatory? Maybe optional would be better.

 

Even so, the computer does periodically just drop the ball, swing and miss at his own setup, or bounce it back off his edge of the screen for no apparent reason. Plus, he seems to respond to you a little more slowly than before.

 

I think the title screen music is nice - but if there was a choice between music and better AI, I think I'd have to go for better AI.

 

Also, I've found a sweet spot to stay in when you're receiving the serve:

 

 

If you stay in about that spot, and hit the fire button to spike the ball, you'll nearly always get a point.

 

Edit: After a few minutes of practice, I can beat the AI every game now.

 

Here's a QuickTime movie of what's going on:

 

http://muse2.calarts.edu/~nstrum/misc/beeball_web.mov

 

Bee Ball is an awesome game... but it really needs better AI to go along with it.

 

A couple ideas for the AI, perhaps attempt to let it move about a bit faster than the player? (The player has better "AI" to compensate! ) That would probably let it get into position a bit more reliably.

 

Another aspect of the AI I find is that it tries to spike the ball while on the far side of it's court a lot. A risky move that fails quite often (Or did for me.) If the player gets into position, he can block or spike it back over with the AI having 0% to recover due to being too far away.

 

And even when the player doesn't get into position, I found the AI fails to spike it over the net half the time anyway, resulting in a loss of point/serve.

 

*edit*

 

As for the ability to spike on the judge's serve reliably, I noticed that myself in the last version when the AI was broken. A counter to this is to let the judge bee vary it's serve a bit. So it can try to serve a bit further into the back, perhaps a bit higher, perhaps a bit lower and closer to the net, etc. Just so long as the serve doesn't follow the same path every time.

 

Additionally you could prevent them from spiking until they have at least hit the ball on their own side (With the horizontal racket) at least once. (This would prevent people from spiking a spike, which usually has almost no chance of recovery unless it bounces off the net.)

 

*end-edit*

 

 

Still an awesome game tho.

Edited November 10, 2007 by Mord

[espire8]

Nice game! But don't call it finished yet!

 

..I thought the colors could use some more contrast, so I cleaned it up a bit and did a graphical hack of the tree branches.

Hope you like it!

 

edit: uploaded the wrong file last night. here's the corret one.

BBall_NewColorPF.bin

 

Edited November 10, 2007 by espire8

[+Nathan Strum]

..I thought the colors could use some more contrast, so I cleaned it up a bit and did a graphical hack of the tree branches.

Generally, I like the look of his version better (looks more "forest-y"), but I like what you did by giving the judge bee a little platform to sit on.

Edited November 11, 2007 by Nathan Strum

[LS_Dracon]

The AI does seem easier - I beat him 10 - 0 on the first game. But that could be in part because of the serve rules. He can't score on you as easily now.

 

Are the serve rules optional, or mandatory? Maybe optional would be better.

Me too, I win by perfect every match. This "new" AI is close to older one, the problem is serve rule.

I can't change someting in grafic to enable-disable serve rule, so it's mandatory. Maybe adding someting in score... I don't know. Let's keep this for now.

These AI problems happens in previous demos too. I can fix it. The true today I've worked a bit in AI, and now the perfect score isn't easy do to.

A couple ideas for the AI, perhaps attempt to let it move about a bit faster than the player? (The player has better "AI" to compensate! ) That would probably let it get into position a bit more reliably.

Tnx for suggestions Mord. I'm still working a lot in AI. All problems I know and I'm trying to fix.

..I thought the colors could use some more contrast, so I cleaned it up a bit and did a graphical hack of the tree branches.

Hope you like it!

For sure Expire!

Great PF you've done. Man I waste much time draw mine version, I'll be sad to trash it out.

I have one sollution, add one for single play and other for multiplayer, to looks like a different stages/backgrounds. But I have few bytes to use, I don't know if this can be possible.

But tnx for your help.

 

People, now you think this game is easy, and it's good! Who played the first demo, remember to control a bee is hardest than drive a truck.

The question now isn't only an easy AI, and yes you play better this game.

I'll add more gravity speed for ball, this not fix the AI, but turn the game a bit difficult.

Edited November 11, 2007 by LS_Dracon

[rheffera]

Hi Dracon! Latest version works well on Pal COnsole. Keep up the good work.

[LS_Dracon]

Hi Dracon! Latest version works well on Pal COnsole. Keep up the good work.

Tnx for testing rheffera

I hope soon I can test in real hardware too

 

Here's new version.

 

It's AI update, the unique way I found to fix that bug mentioned by Nathan is disable Stroke movement, in ball served by bee judge. You need touch the ball at first, to do stroke, but this time is enought to respositioning opponent player, to try blocking.

And in overall, AI is more competitive. Still easy, but more challenging.

I not fix the screen jump bug yet.

 

...

 

Damn... I forgot the pal version

Edited November 15, 2007 by LS_Dracon

[Mord]

I don't know what happened exactly, but the AI got stuck (temporarily) bouncing the ball against the net on his side then the below happened to the judge bee! The game progressed normally except for the messed up graphics. The black bars above the AI bee follow it around so I can only assume it's it's own sprite data.

 

The glitch remained until the game was over and a new game started.

 

Oh, I also got the glitch with the AI Bee losing it's racket next to the net again. (Happened on my second game.)

 

The AI itself is much better tho overall. It spikes the ball over the net far better.

[LS_Dracon]

I don't know what happened exactly, but the AI got stuck (temporarily) bouncing the ball against the net on his side then the below happened to the judge bee!

This is a graphic error, I try to avoid AI stuck, and this turn in new bugs.

Fixed now.

Oh, I also got the glitch with the AI Bee losing it's racket next to the net again. (Happened on my second game.)

Man, this bugs happen 1 time with me... And becouse it's rare to happen, is very hard to fix!

The problem is AI try to do block and stroke at same time, and this send wrong information to raquet position.

I will deserve special attention in this bug.

The AI itself is much better tho overall. It spikes the ball over the net far better.

Tnx Mord

This version is a fix for graphic bug only.

Edited November 20, 2007 by LS_Dracon

[+thegoldenband]

Wow, this game has really come along, and is shaping up to be a classic Atari party game, with a very good AI for one-player mode. I do find myself wishing that the bees were slightly more responsive -- I can't put my finger on what it is, but I think it's that there's just a little bit too much inertia when you start moving. But overall, it's really terrific, and the variation you've put in on the judge's serve is really crucial. Also the behavior of the net is great -- in particular the way a badly placed spike can fly into the air and go out-of-bounds on the opponent's side.

 

I will say that I can do pretty well against the computer by staying in one spot, more or less, and spiking the ball repeatedly after I bounce it once. You could vary the judge's initial serve a little bit more, though it's not crucial.

[rheffera]

Yes, it is proving to be quite a gem. Dracon, let me know when a new PAL version is avaliable to test

[LS_Dracon]

I can't put my finger on what it is, but I think it's that there's just a little bit too much inertia when you start moving

Golden, I made tests about player speed, and this current speed is best that I've found.

In real hardware and using atari controllers, is more hard to controller the bees, and a slow start speed shoud be fine.

Yes, it is proving to be quite a gem. Dracon, let me know when a new PAL version is avaliable to test

Here's

Nevermind the bug in score graphics.

Edited November 20, 2007 by LS_Dracon

[Albert]

I just played a few rounds of Bee-Ball on a real Atari 2600. I need more practice as the AI can beat me without too much trouble. I do think the AI is pretty good for a game of this nature, and especially for an Atari 2600 game. It's amusing to watch the AI occasionally make the same kind of mistakes a human player would. This makes it much less robotic than most AIs of this nature. The game is quite a bit fun against the computer player, and I bet it's even more fun playing against a human opponent (which I have not done yet).

 

One thing I noticed is that when you return to the title screen after the game is over, the screen rolls very briefly. Also, if you stand in place and let the bounce ball on your racket without moving, the ball eventually falls through the racket. I assume this is intentional?

 

..Al

[+Nathan Strum]

One thing I noticed is that when you return to the title screen after the game is over, the screen rolls very briefly. Also, if you stand in place and let the bounce ball on your racket without moving, the ball eventually falls through the racket. I assume this is intentional?

I think it must be - just as you can't hold onto a volleyball, or a badminton bird. They have to be kept airborne.

[Albert]

One thing I noticed is that when you return to the title screen after the game is over, the screen rolls very briefly. Also, if you stand in place and let the bounce ball on your racket without moving, the ball eventually falls through the racket. I assume this is intentional?

I think it must be - just as you can't hold onto a volleyball, or a badminton bird. They have to be kept airborne.

That's what I was thinking and it's a nice touch. I initially only noticed this when I started a two player game. The all was served to the other player, and since nobody was playing that player, I watched as the ball bounced a few times, eventually making its way through the racket.

 

..Al

[LS_Dracon]

I just played a few rounds of Bee-Ball on a real Atari 2600. I need more practice as the AI can beat me without too much trouble. I do think the AI is pretty good for a game of this nature, and especially for an Atari 2600 game. It's amusing to watch the AI occasionally make the same kind of mistakes a human player would. This makes it much less robotic than most AIs of this nature. The game is quite a bit fun against the computer player, and I bet it's even more fun playing against a human opponent (which I have not done yet).

Tnx.

 

One thing I noticed is that when you return to the title screen after the game is over, the screen rolls very briefly. Also, if you stand in place and let the bounce ball on your racket without moving, the ball eventually falls through the racket. I assume this is intentional?

It's intentional. If ball touches the raquet, a timer start to do this. The bal bouncing 3 or 4 times and fall, this avoid player stuck and force you to move the bee. Tap up and the time restart, at anytime.

And about roll screen... I made some fixes today.

 

New version released!

 

- Screen jump bug fixed!

- I hope the "raquet lost" bug was fixed too (left bee lost the raquet, and this stuck in the air, weird)

- Well the roll screen bug was already mentioned by Nathan, I not fixed this yet, but I figure for what reason this happen. I made a small fix, still rolling but less perceptible I think, since this not happen in emulators. This is the last bug to be fixed, I hope

Edited December 1, 2007 by LS_Dracon

[+Nathan Strum]

The AI is definitely getting better! It's dropping the ball less, and not letting it bounce off his racquet and over his head as much.

 

There are still a couple of weaknesses in the AI that it would be nice to have fixed.

 

1) I can still score by stroking the ball over during a serve. The only difference is - I position the bee so the ball bounces once off the paddle once, then I spike it over.

 

I made another QuickTime movie showing this happening several times (ignore the graphics glitch at 10 seconds - that's screen capture glitch, not a game glitch).

 

http://muse2.calarts.edu/~nstrum/misc/beeball_serve_web.mov

 

Sometimes though, the AI bee will be in the right position to stop it. If the AI bee could be make it to that position during every serve, it would eliminate that exploit (an example of this happens at 32 seconds).

 

Also, if the ball is served far enough to the left, this won't work, since you end up hitting it into the net. But it would be better if the AI bee could be in the right position to block it - since that would make returning it again even more challenging.

 

2) An unrelated issue is that when the AI bee is at the net, and is setting up to stroke the ball over, it's pretty easy to just position your bee a little below him, and block the shot right back over the net and underneath him. (This happens about 1:01 in the movie, and usually several times during a game.) A possible way around this, would be to automatically have the AI start moving the bee downward, as soon as it hit the ball in that situation. Then, it could probably respond to the blocked shot in time. (Sometimes it already does this on its own, if it happens to be moving in the right direction.)

 

If I don't use those two exploits, the AI is really challenging. But I figure it's probably best to plug up holes like that.

[rheffera]

Dracon, 6.3 PAL works perfectly on PAL 2600. It is getting to be a really,really good game. Do you have plans to release it on cartridge?

[LS_Dracon]

The AI is definitely getting better! It's dropping the ball less, and not letting it bounce off his racquet and over his head as much.

Tnx Nathan.

I watch the video, this AI problem must to be fixed.

Dracon, 6.3 PAL works perfectly on PAL 2600. It is getting to be a really,really good game. Do you have plans to release it on cartridge?

Tnx for testing Rheffera. Just for curiosity, are your television PAL 60?

 

And about a cart... I don't know

[LS_Dracon]

New version.

 

I'm work a lot in AI, but the stupid opponent still losing balls.

I'm tired to coding this AI, it's frustrating...

 

This version still with AI holes, but there new codes to avoid this.

Don't forget the multiplayer game, play against one friend, this game will be more fun.

Edited December 1, 2007 by LS_Dracon

[LS_Dracon]

Just for fun, here's the SECAM version.

SECAM uses only 8 (primary and secondary) colors, emulators will think it's PAL (the true, it is) you need change manually the pallete in emulator, or the game will look black and white.

In Z26 looks good, in Stella happens a strange glitch (screen flicker) I don't know the reason for that, maybe is my code.

 

The colors... ;_;

BeeBall_SECAM_6.4.bin

Edited November 26, 2007 by LS_Dracon

[+Nathan Strum]

Wow... is this the first SECAM homebrew?

[Albert]

Wow... is this the first SECAM homebrew?

I'm not sure--I seem to remember someone making a SECAM version for another game, but it's not something I put in the store. I could be wrong, though, will have to look.

 

At any rate, why is SECAM limited to so few colors? That sure is quite a contrast from the PAL and NTSC versions!

 

..Al