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Atari Jaguar VS Sega Saturn


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This looks like a fun game. Let's see, I think I'll add DoDonPachi and Castlevania: Symphony of the Night as just two of the 2D games that are superior on the Playstation compared to the Saturn version.

 

Just to make sure you aren't napping. ;)

 

 

Yep. Good job A Sprite. You just did something what'shisname failed to do for how many pages now?

 

DoDonPachi is indeed not as good on Saturn as it is on PSone. Neither is In the Hunt, btw.

 

SOTN, though, is iffy. Transparencies aren't as good on Saturn, naturally, but there's the extra character that you just can't ignore.

 

Then again, it was a JP release only. So I'll give the PSone version extra points just for being in English.

 

Always nice to hear what ol' Drac has to say before tearing a hole in him.

 

It's like catching up with an old friend.

 

1. You caught In the Hunt. Not bad; I was saving that one...

 

2. The Saturn version of Castlevania also features butchered art, owing to the developer simply throwing the original Playstation graphics onto a higher resolution Saturn mode, without changing a single pixel. There are more frequent and longer load times, and the bonus quest is a small extra, since the only real changes are a new sprite and a lack of leveling up.

 

"I understand why fans who've never played the Saturn version would be interested in those features, but I really, really don't feel good about them. I couldn't put my name on that stuff and present it to Castlevania fans." -- Koji Igarashi, Play Magazine
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"I understand why fans who've never played the Saturn version would be interested in those features, but I really, really don't feel good about them. I couldn't put my name on that stuff and present it to Castlevania fans." -- Koji Igarashi, Play Magazine

 

That would mean a lot more to me if Lament of Innocence and Curse of Darkness didn't exist :ponder:

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Eh, Maria plays pretty differently from Alucard and Richter. There's the new Richter costume and some extra rooms in the castle thrown in. But it wasn't a good port. I don't even think Igarashi or his team handled it at all.

 

Good game overall, but the Saturn version, despite the extras, isn't really a good port of the PSone original.

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Gimme a break, I'm not trying to be an "internet tough guy"... :roll: I'm trying to put a FANBOY in his place! (note to self: Why the hell am i even responding to this guy again? LOL)

 

On an internet message board for video game enthusiasts you lower yourself to tasteless insults when no one had insulted you in the first place.

 

And why do you do that?

 

Because you're on the 'net and this isn't a face to face conversation. Looking at a computer screen obviously seems to give you some amount of courage. I very much doubt that you call people "stupid", "moron", "retarded" and other such things in your day to day life when having conversations when the conversation on their end to that point has been cordial.

 

Oh god...again with the no proof bullshit...lmao Fine, just for you, tomorrow after work and after i pick my mom up from her chemotherapy, i'll devote some of my time to the annoying Saturn fanboy just to shut him up for good!!! ;) expect an ownage tomorrow afternoon BUDDY.... ;)

 

What part of "I didn't own a Saturn until very recently" don't you understand?

 

I've written that clearly a few times now.

 

GAMESPOT BLOWS almost as much as EGM...lmfao nice try...

 

And yet you mentioned EGM as one of the reviews that you were going on about, iirc.

 

So aren't you just going against what you have been throwing around for several posts now?

 

I mean, if EGM is "bad", why then would you take stock in their reviews?

 

And yet again it matters not whether you like the mag or site, but rather what I posted goes against your earlier contention that the scores weren't dissimilar.

 

OH and lol @ u think im lying about my massive magazine collection (which ive even thinned down in the past year) I still have HUNDREDS of mags from the 1994-1997 time period alone!!! HAHA! And ive read almost all of em cover to cover. I'm very well informed on the 32-bit era!!! in that regard! Just you wait, I'm gonna get sime nice and shiny scans in 600 dpi. ;)

 

I don't care if you're lying or not.

 

If you have them, scan and post. Stop going on and on about them as if I'd take the word of someone who lowers themselves to insults on a video game message board on the internet. Can you not see how pathetic such a thing is?

 

Um, you have been insulting me this whole time by basically saying I'm lying about the fact that PS 2d games aren't far at all behind the Saturn. You keep reitterating the Saturn is light years ahead, only going by the system specs. I'm going by ACTUAL SOFTWARE... ;) Those scans will be coming before I go to sleep by the way... ;) Oh and lol @ how a few high caliber 2d games have been mentioned infact BEING BETTER on the PS than the Saturn...So you still gonna try to tell me Saturn is so much better at 2D than the PS? ;)

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Gimme a break, I'm not trying to be an "internet tough guy"... :roll: I'm trying to put a FANBOY in his place! (note to self: Why the hell am i even responding to this guy again? LOL)

 

On an internet message board for video game enthusiasts you lower yourself to tasteless insults when no one had insulted you in the first place.

 

And why do you do that?

 

Because you're on the 'net and this isn't a face to face conversation. Looking at a computer screen obviously seems to give you some amount of courage. I very much doubt that you call people "stupid", "moron", "retarded" and other such things in your day to day life when having conversations when the conversation on their end to that point has been cordial.

 

Oh god...again with the no proof bullshit...lmao Fine, just for you, tomorrow after work and after i pick my mom up from her chemotherapy, i'll devote some of my time to the annoying Saturn fanboy just to shut him up for good!!! ;) expect an ownage tomorrow afternoon BUDDY.... ;)

 

What part of "I didn't own a Saturn until very recently" don't you understand?

 

I've written that clearly a few times now.

 

GAMESPOT BLOWS almost as much as EGM...lmfao nice try...

 

And yet you mentioned EGM as one of the reviews that you were going on about, iirc.

 

So aren't you just going against what you have been throwing around for several posts now?

 

I mean, if EGM is "bad", why then would you take stock in their reviews?

 

And yet again it matters not whether you like the mag or site, but rather what I posted goes against your earlier contention that the scores weren't dissimilar.

 

OH and lol @ u think im lying about my massive magazine collection (which ive even thinned down in the past year) I still have HUNDREDS of mags from the 1994-1997 time period alone!!! HAHA! And ive read almost all of em cover to cover. I'm very well informed on the 32-bit era!!! in that regard! Just you wait, I'm gonna get sime nice and shiny scans in 600 dpi. ;)

 

I don't care if you're lying or not.

 

If you have them, scan and post. Stop going on and on about them as if I'd take the word of someone who lowers themselves to insults on a video game message board on the internet. Can you not see how pathetic such a thing is?

 

Jesus, I guess I have to quote you to keep track of all the damned nitpickings you make on my writings!!! LMAO! okay then, I NEVER EVER EVER ANYWHERE used EGM reviews. So you FOS on that one... And ya sometimes I do call people names in real life when they deserve it. I'm not afraid to call out someone when the act like a dick... I guess maybe cus I'm about 6'2 220 pounds. ;) It doesn't matter how long you've owned a Saturn... Hell, all the time I see brand new Jag fans coming here and JSII going freaking GAGA over the Jag cus it's something new to them and they become one of those "instant fanboys"... ;) But fine I'll stop calling you a fan boy obviously it hurts your feelings. ;)

 

But ok I do admit i've gone overboard with you so I apologize for the over-insulting. :) I usually get along with everyone so I dunno what happened with ya. :P Ask around I've been here awhile. :P

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Out of curiosity what reviews are you going by? GamePro?

Next Gen and Game Fan while imo were great mags, their opinions often differed considerably when looking at the Saturn, so you would need another source to even things out. You've taken EGM out of play, so what is left?

edit: forgot to delete the mile long quotes

Edited by jesusc
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Out of curiosity what reviews are you going by? GamePro?

Next Gen and Game Fan while imo were great mags, their opinions often differed considerably when looking at the Saturn, so you would need another source to even things out. You've taken EGM out of play, so what is left?

edit: forgot to delete the mile long quotes

 

Well I haven't exactly taken EGM out of play, I was just saying I never anywhere used an EGM Review as an example...YET. EGM blows NOW, but back in the mid 90's they were pretty decent... ;) And the other mags I'm referring to are Gamefan, Next Generation, GamePro, and Game Players...

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Ok so I grabbed a stack of late 90's GameFans as I thought that would be about the best example of what I'm trying to get at... I know if I went with mags from the mid 90's that certain people will be like "oh well, saturn 2d games got better as devs go to know the system yada yada" so ok...everyone who read GameFan knows how pro Sega they were...They loved the Saturn and the DC and gushed at every oppotunity. They were also very NITPICKY ;) about missing frames and yada yada SOO...here's some scans of a couple 2d fighters.

 

First scan, the reviewer exaggerates about how much better the Saturn version is ala someone here, but you'll soon see him backtrack into saying even with the flaws that the Saturn version doesn't have, the game still looks good and plays good. Youll also notice how he comes from the same viewpoint as me...ya sure, hardcore people will bitch about the missing frames yada yada, but most everyone else will be just fine with this version. It still looks great and plays great...

 

Then there's the PS Alpha 3 review. Now this REALLY backs up my argument about the Playstation being fully capable of nipping right at the Saturns heels in 2d. Like said in the review, ya its missing some frames, but its hella smooth and looks and plays freaking fantastic... ;) So i believe this is enough to back up my point that ya the Saturn is better at 2d than the playstation, but really the difference in 2d graphic quality between the 2 is usually the PS version have SOME frames missing, but not enough to really matter (ie : The game still kicks ass) and maybe even some elemenets of the ps version are left out but to the majority of gamers, the game is still fine.... so anyway, lets just leave it at the ps and saturn both have plenty of capabilities in the 2d and 3d department and both have proof in the games to back it up. It's safe to say the ps is a bit better at 3d and the saturn a bit better at 2d but both systems compare very well and closely in both categories, which is what ive been trying to say the whole time. :P :P :P of course im sure some of u will have a different take on all this and ill have to dig through some more damn mags for an hour and spend another half hour scanning them at the same time hurting the poor spines on my mags LOL :P

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What if Playstation hadnt existed, and Sega didnt add that second SH2 to the Saturn, would it still have beat the Jaguar in terms of polygons?

 

Well...I think the 2 SH2's would have been fine if they had seperate external buses.

The problem with the Jaguar is the 68k. the Jaguar chips are the same chips you see

used in Area 51 in the arcade....you also see a world of difference in graphical quality

The Tom and Jerry Chips are every bit as potent as those in the Saturn and the PS1.

 

The probelm is no one ever use them right because the 68k was right there, with every

tool imaginable. No tools except a simple assembler was available for the RISC's. Atari

told all developers that you cant run the GPU in main ram. That turns out not to be true

at all. If the 68k was RESTRICTED to only booting the system, developers would have

had no choice but to grow a pair and code for the RISC's. The fact is, even with a C

compiler fo the RISC's you are not getting the full potential from the machine but it

would have been tons better than using the 68k.

 

Assembler is the BEST way to yank performance from the Jaguar. It's really a damned

if you do, damned if you dont thing. I use an assembler to code my Jaguar games and

have no intention of using a higher level language. The instruction set is very simple and

I can run code from local and main and actaully jump back and forth to and from either.

Parly thanks to Atari Owl btw... :) It alone makes a world of difference not to have to flip

a ton of 4k code mudules in to the GPU.

 

There is just a world of reasons why you never saw the whole truth from the Jagaur.

We may never know either. The Saturn would have done fine with better tools as well.

It's a really powerful machine. Use of those SH2 properly will wring serious performance

from it. Using nine processors was just plain stupid and beyond unecessary. One sh3 and

two VDP's and a DSP would have been Ideal. All with seperate main buses.

Edited by Gorf
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Thanks for the scans. God, i miss Game Fan.

 

Your welcome and I'm with ya bud...it was far and away the best game magazine imo...Hell, the best gaming literature anywhere... I remember how much I anticipated getting a new issue every month, wondering what the cover was gonna look like...It sucks what gaming magazines have become now... Ya, I've heard good things about a few, like Retro Gamer, but the price of it is ridiculous.

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Thanks for the scans. God, i miss Game Fan.

 

 

Even though this topis is about which two machines, the Jaguar or the Saturn, is harder to code for.

:roll:

 

Oh c'mon have some fun Gorf... ;) Besides everyone already knows both are equally a bitch to program for...but the Saturn has better tools... right? ;)

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Imagine if you went to Japan and asked some hardcore gamers which is better Jaguar or Saturn? HAHAhahaha... And that's exactly what they'd do...they'd be rolling on the ground laughing or asking "Jaguar?" :P Gorf, why can't all you devs get together and put your all of your knowledge into one company and churn out some freaking kickass games and stun the gaming world? Well atleast the classic gaming world... :P Imagine how much ofa badass game could come out of the Jag or better yet Jag CD if you Gorf, 4play, and all the euro devs and other us devs got together...instead of fighting... :P That would be cool.

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Imagine if you went to Japan and asked some hardcore gamers which is better Jaguar or Saturn? HAHAhahaha... And that's exactly what they'd do...they'd be rolling on the ground laughing or asking "Jaguar?" :P Gorf, why can't all you devs get together and put your all of your knowledge into one company and churn out some freaking kickass games and stun the gaming world? Well atleast the classic gaming world... :P Imagine how much ofa badass game could come out of the Jag or better yet Jag CD if you Gorf, 4play, and all the euro devs and other us devs got together...instead of fighting... :P That would be cool.

 

 

Too many cooks......ever here that saying?

 

Besides, we have teamed up with some VERY prominent

original authorized jaguar Developers. We are way ahead

of you. Oh they do not in the least disagree with my

assesments on the Jag's ability BTW.

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From the Vs. review:

"...what makes this job even harder is knowing that a company's previous outing of the same game, but on a different system is literally a hundred times better...I have to admit I'm a little disappointed in Capcom's ability to port MVSF to the PSX...animation...has taken a turn for the worse."

 

gee, that sounds exactly like what I and others have stated.

 

This is where it gets sticky:

"As far as gameplay goes, though, MVSF does manage to deliver the same smack-down as its arcade counterpart. Sure, like X-Men vs. SF you still can't switch between your characters during rounds but come on there was a time when no one thought conversions of this caliber were even possible...Ok, so MVSF isn't a perfect translation, and yes it may be lacking in more than a few departments..."

 

I generally loved GameFan, but this review is an example of one of the things I didn't like about it.

First, why would you have a person who admittedly "isn't very fond" of a particular game do a review on it? A person who hates on a game isn't going to take the time to notice and detail all the intricate parts of the game. They are just going to blow through it so they can write up their review and get their paycheck.

Secondly, the game obviously does NOT deliver the same smack down as it's arcade (and Saturn) counterpoint. YOU CAN'T SWITCH CHARACTERS! That is an integral part of the friggin' gameplay and many strategies use that feature.

That's like taking Bump and Jump and removing the Jump. It's no longer the same game.

 

The whole review boils down to this: This version is fine for those who have never played the arcade original and just want to have a fighting game to mess around with. It's like saying london broil is a fine steak as long as you've never had filet mignon.

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Um, you have been insulting me this whole time by basically saying I'm lying about the fact that PS 2d games aren't far at all behind the Saturn.

 

Eh?

 

Not once did I call you a liar.

 

You keep reitterating the Saturn is light years ahead, only going by the system specs.

 

And that's a personal insult to you how exactly?

 

Oh, right, it isn't.

 

An actual apology for your childish behavior in this topic is appropriate. No one was insulting you to begin with. There was a disagreement, and a debate. You brought it to a childish level.

 

I'm going by ACTUAL SOFTWARE... ;)

 

And yet ignoring the ACTUAL SOFTWARE that I and others have mentioned.

 

Merely stating "no one cares but hard core fighting game fans" doesn't negate the fact that the differences exist.

 

Those scans will be coming before I go to sleep by the way... ;)

 

Okay.

 

Oh and lol @ how a few high caliber 2d games have been mentioned infact BEING BETTER on the PS than the Saturn...So you still gonna try to tell me Saturn is so much better at 2D than the PS? ;)

 

I'm not the only one that's been saying that, if you haven't noticed.

 

And a few 2D games being better on PSone mentioned by A Sprite, not by you (until after his post >_>). How many games have I and others already mentoned that you continue to ignore?

 

Hell, since he mentioned the games we should ask him which console was better at 2D games overall, and in particular those 2D fighters that I mentioned that you chose to ignore, insult me over, and then backtrack on.

 

A Sprite?

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BTW, the scans have only backed up what myself and others have been saying. Saturn was better at 2D games. And if one looks at it from an objective level, it was much better at running such games.

 

So thanks for help in proving that for us.

 

Again, it wasn't just me saying that. And yet you insulted me.

 

The "fanboy" comments didn't "hurt". At most they gave me a laugh while I wondered how many times you missed my statement over and over again.

 

You've apologized. And that's fine.

 

But I will suggest that being 6'2" 220 lbs. isn't an excuse for childish behavior, on or off-line.

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