JagCF last news before the before the launch of final proto.

[Gorf]

and I have no proof that surrounded actually run in main ram because you forbid to disassemble any of your code.

 

Orion, that's not very important to make GPU code running in main ram, that's run 6 times slower than in Gpu ram.

 

 

 

GT

 

 

Only someone inexperienced would say such a stupid, uninformed thing. It runs ten times

faster than the 68k in main but some people cant deal with newer technology I suppossse.

IT can and does run as fast in DRAM save the refresh and latency. Nothin else hitting the bus

you will get almost the same exact performance. Oh and if you are refering to that logic analizer

crap, it does not prove much of anything.

[Gorf]

And I won't miss conservative fools like you either.

 

And I wont miss a socialist like you.....you know always wanting a handout, not able to fend

for them selves and have to depend on nany govt to survive. Pathetic. Im 100% not suprised

why you can't wait for this device. It's perfect for you.

[Gorf]

I just want the CF device to play Battlesphere, I'm with Gorf on this one: Games like Battlesphere being sold on ebay for huge amounts of cash, ripping us off to no end (Ever seen a Battlesphere for 10 bucks? Nope. Are the sellers donating the money to a worthwhile charity? Nope. Would a CF device put a stop to Battlesphere or Gorf being sold for atrocious amounts on ebay? Nope. So Gorf's not quite right, not just VCS collectors are being ripped off on ebay, Jaguar collectors too).

 

Even for Gorf (the CD game, not the person) I had to pay $170.00 on ebay (Sorry, Gorf, as for 'hounding', it doesn't quite work that way in the real world). If I had the CF device, I surely use that to play Gorf instead of being ripped off on Ebay. (Well, maybe I wouldn't, as Gorf tries to make that game available again in the near future which will bring the value price down for sure. Irrelevant anyway, as I own the blue box version)

 

(Of course, for me being a collector, having a copy doesn't cut it. Once I get the funds, I will purchase Battlesphere in it's original form. Once I get the funds, I will buy Tank Command for 7800, once .....)

 

So you openly admit you'd steal...and is exactly why we wont sell games to you.

[Gorf]

Making pirate copies of other developpers work? Nah, only JagCF developpers and supporters would do that.

http://jaysmith2000.ipbhost.com/index.php?...st&p=178174

 

 

How am I a hypocrite for trying to stop someone from copying a game I had to pull off the market?

I think I did the right thing. I made my mistake and corrected it. My mistake was an honest one for

anyone objective...but Fredrik/Deranged/Jag4House or whoeevryou really are, you are the hypocrite

becasue you actually condone such bullshit. You trully are a coward hiding behind aliases. This very

piracy issue has already put Gorf on the cancelled list for good. There is no way am I going to be

subjected to lawsuits becuase of of bunch of low lifes who can't do the right thing with other people's

property.

 

 

Actually, Gorf, that was not aimed at you, as you obviously got stabbed in the back by your own buddies. I apologize for not being clear on that one.

 

All is good then.

[Gorf]

I posted proof at least...were is yours?

you should have check the video capture of my game "seaplane" when I show the preview at the RGC 2006 and in some video at AC2007

and I have no proof that surrounded actually run in main ram because you forbid to disassemble any of your code.

 

 

Im quite suprised you have'nt yourself. I will release the main code issue to all some day.

Even for you guys. I really cpuld care less if you beleive me or not Orion. I know what can

be done out in main. I dont report this to brag but to let everyone know it is worth it and it

is possible. It is also a lot faster than having a 1/4 bus width 1/2 clock speed 68k eating up

all your busses throughput. If you can't see the advantages here, you must be a novice still.

 

I'd have revealed it already but I know a lot of folks have told me not to becasue they

want to figure it out for them sleves. Who am I to steal away their challenge and fun?

 

Orion. I am in know way, shape, or for a genious...AT ALL. A guy with your determination

shouldbe able to figure out how to do it in a few nights like I did. The issue is so simple, when

you finally figure it out, you will smack yourself in the head. Then you will come back and thank

me for convincing you to try....but I wont hold my breath on that last one.

 

Im only trying to give you some good advice. If you wokr it out on your own, you wont

have to give me anycredit, not that I'd expect you to anyway.

[Greenious]

And I won't miss conservative fools like you either.

 

And I wont miss a socialist like you.....you know always wanting a handout, not able to fend

for them selves and have to depend on nany govt to survive. Pathetic. Im 100% not suprised

why you can't wait for this device. It's perfect for you.

 

ROFL, you clearly have your opinion about me, JagCF and humanity at large set in stone, don't you?

[Gorf]

And I won't miss conservative fools like you either.

 

And I wont miss a socialist like you.....you know always wanting a handout, not able to fend

for them selves and have to depend on nany govt to survive. Pathetic. Im 100% not suprised

why you can't wait for this device. It's perfect for you.

 

ROFL, you clearly have your opinion about me, JagCF and humanity at large set in stone, don't you?

 

If you dont like conservatives, what else could you be? Yet you determined what I am but that's ok I

guess? And you clearly dont have any opinions about all three? What a waste of forum bandwidth

this post was.

[Greenious]

And I won't miss conservative fools like you either.

 

And I wont miss a socialist like you.....you know always wanting a handout, not able to fend

for them selves and have to depend on nany govt to survive. Pathetic. Im 100% not suprised

why you can't wait for this device. It's perfect for you.

 

ROFL, you clearly have your opinion about me, JagCF and humanity at large set in stone, don't you?

 

If you dont like conservatives, what else could you be? Yet you determined what I am but that's ok I

guess? And you clearly dont have any opinions about all three? What a waste of forum bandwidth

this post was.

Hehe, somehow my comment disappeared

 

Anyway, didn't mean conservative in the political sense. I meant in in the sense of being against progress. (It's kinda funny sometimes how us foreigners sometimes uses words in a different manner than you US folks do, or misunderstands completely. I thought the holiday mishap earlier in the thread was pretty funny.)

 

Anyway, I think further discussing this topic between us is probably a waste of time. You will never turn to see my side of things, as I'll never turn to your side. I think you only look at JagCF as a potential piracy tool, and fail to also see the benefits. I think the benefits heavily outwighs the drawbacks, even if there will be some piracy, the added interest for this otherwise stagnant platform will more than make up for it imho. And in the end this device will not only benefit the fans, but the developers aswell.

Edited October 1, 2007 by Greenious

[thomasholzer]

I just want the CF device to play Battlesphere, I'm with Gorf on this one: Games like Battlesphere being sold on ebay for huge amounts of cash, ripping us off to no end (Ever seen a Battlesphere for 10 bucks? Nope. Are the sellers donating the money to a worthwhile charity? Nope. Would a CF device put a stop to Battlesphere or Gorf being sold for atrocious amounts on ebay? Nope. So Gorf's not quite right, not just VCS collectors are being ripped off on ebay, Jaguar collectors too).

 

Even for Gorf (the CD game, not the person) I had to pay $170.00 on ebay (Sorry, Gorf, as for 'hounding', it doesn't quite work that way in the real world). If I had the CF device, I surely use that to play Gorf instead of being ripped off on Ebay. (Well, maybe I wouldn't, as Gorf tries to make that game available again in the near future which will bring the value price down for sure. Irrelevant anyway, as I own the blue box version)

 

(Of course, for me being a collector, having a copy doesn't cut it. Once I get the funds, I will purchase Battlesphere in it's original form. Once I get the funds, I will buy Tank Command for 7800, once .....)

 

So you openly admit you'd steal...and is exactly why we wont sell games to you.

 

 

Believe me Gorf, everybody steals, I've been copying music from friends since 1970 with my first tape cassette recorder. Still, after buying and collecting up to 1000 vinyls, the record industry won't go hungry because of this (And they keep on selling me music, they would be silly not to sell me music just because I also copy music) (This is what you are basically saying, you won't sell me your game, you'd rather let me copy it, what kind of logic is that?).

 

If the Battlesphere making company would sell me an original boxed game of this, I gladly purchase it. If they haven't got a product for sale, I cannot steal it anyway.

Edited October 1, 2007 by thomasholzer

[Albert]

Hehe, somehow my comment disappeared

Uhh, no comments have been deleted from this discussion.

 

..Al

[Gorf]

Believe me Gorf, everybody steals, I've been copying music from friends since 1970 with my first tape cassette recorder. Still, after buying and collecting up to 1000 vinyls, the record industry won't go hungry because of this (And they keep on selling me music, they would be silly not to sell me music just because I also copy music) (This is what you are basically saying, you won't sell me your game, you'd rather let me copy it, what kind of logic is that?).

 

If the Battlesphere making company would sell me an original boxed game of this, I gladly purchase it. If they haven't got a product for sale, I cannot steal it anyway.

 

First...

 

All the other games you wont ever see because they wont be relased in the first place.

Not until I am satisfied with the safety of the media they end up on.

 

 

Second...

I can't sell you my game anymore as it never was my game. Gorf does not belong to me.

Midway has been wonderful with this, but I already have told them it wont be happening.

The responsibilities on my part are just too heavy a burden for a strugglind startup like us.

We don't have the means of ensuring it from being copied. We don't have money to be

sending lawyers after people, especially over what is essentially hobbiest interest when

you come right down to it. I cant take the chances of someone having no concern for my

responsibilities with a licensed title that I am a steward of. They were even willing to do a

possible long term license to allow me to get as much as I could for the charity. BELIEVE

ME...I wanted nothing more than to do this but I just can't subject what is essentially a

great honor for me personnally, to the possibilities of it being abused. I would be legally

liable. We are in good standing with Midway and wish to maintain that as long as possible

and build upon it as well. It pays to do the right thing. Lesson learned.

 

 

Third...

I dont blame Midway at all for requiring what they would and I would require the exact

same things if roles were reversed. I understand things are different overseas then in

the states but that does not mean I have to adapt or accept a foriegn way of thinking

when it comes to software. Hey, I think the GNU deal is a wonderful thing and find it

a reasonable requirement but I like to not have to depend on GNU for much of anything

but my own tools if at all.

[Gorf]

I pretty sure Scatologic would LOVE to re-release BattleSphere and I bet at

a reasonable price. But they too have the same concerns as we do and rightfully so.

[Atariboy]

Then why haven't they in the years before this device was ever announced?

[JagChris]

However after testing a game I really like I buy it. I know many people who do the same, with pirated software. After trying a game they like, they buy it.

 

Certainly there may also be people who don't do this, but I think every collector will do it for sure and in the case of the Jaguar all die hard Jag fans will do it to.

 

Again, Lars, the try before you buy argument doesn't hold water.

 

Unfortunately, neither does much else he said.

 

So again, I'm not supporting piracy, I just don't think the possibility of loading roms would be a valid reason to attack JagCF, as there are deviced around that can do it for many years at affordable price and it never became a problem in the Jag scene.

 

Here's those affordable piracy devices you were talking about Lars. This is only for the 2mb(small) version.

 

 

Time to do some cleaning at my house. I've got the following up for sale:

 

$450 (new lower price) - 2 MB Alpine + Developer Jag (console w/ ribbon cable, power supply, A/V cable, 1 controller, in Jaguar retail box)

The above is the actual dev system used by JV Games to develop Towers 2!

 

$300 (new lower price) - 2 MB Alpine

 

Continental USA shipping is included in the above prices. International shipping is available but will be at least $25 extra, depending on the size, weight, and insurance. Dev Jags only available in the USA to keep shipping simple.

 

Please contact me via email or PM if interested. I will post in this thread as items are sold.

 

And don't worry, I still have a dev Jag and a pair of 4MB Alpines I'm keeping for myself.

 

We can extrapolate that a 4mb version goes for about $500 or so.

Edited October 2, 2007 by JagChris

[JagChris]

My bad. We can't extrapolate that exactly since the ORIGINAL starting price for the 2MB small Alpine started at about $500 bucks. Perhaps around $600-800 for a 4mb one.

[Greenious]

Hehe, somehow my comment disappeared

Uhh, no comments have been deleted from this discussion.

 

..Al

No, but I had problem posting the message, got server timout/disconnected/whatever, when the message finally got posted, my comment was gone and just the quote was left.

 

Shit happens.

[Greenious]

I pretty sure Scatologic would LOVE to re-release BattleSphere and I bet at

a reasonable price. But they too have the same concerns as we do and rightfully so.

There is a solution to that.

 

Preorders. Not only will you get a clear view of how many you need to make, you don't even have to fork out the money to make them, and in the end risk nothing.

[SebRmv]

I pretty sure Scatologic would LOVE to re-release BattleSphere and I bet at

a reasonable price. But they too have the same concerns as we do and rightfully so.

 

They may want to release it on Compact Flash medium since there will be an anti-copy protection mechanism.

It will be cheaper to produce and cheaper for the Jag lovers.

[Orion_]

Oh and if you are refering to that logic analizer crap, it does not prove much of anything.

you say that a logic analyzer which measure things precisely and show exactly what happen inside the jaguar is lying and that we should better believe you than the analyzer ?? LOL !

[Gorf]

Then why haven't they in the years before this device was ever announced?

 

 

Becasue at one time they were so discusted with certain idiots in the community, they were losing heart, but their love for the Jaguar keeps BS in consideration, but CF and those that support it are

not at all any help to the cause. Besides all that nice money made on those auction are going to help fund Diabetes research...A much more worthy cause than a selfish fans desire to play a game.

[Gorf]

Oh and if you are refering to that logic analizer crap, it does not prove much of anything.

you say that a logic analyzer which measure things precisely and show exactly what happen inside the jaguar is lying and that we should better believe you than the analyzer ?? LOL !

 

 

Logic anylizers DO NOT tell the WHOLE story and if you ever worked with them you know that.

I did not say anyone was lying butI was saying logic analyzer reading mean little in practice.

[Gorf]

I pretty sure Scatologic would LOVE to re-release BattleSphere and I bet at

a reasonable price. But they too have the same concerns as we do and rightfully so.

 

They may want to release it on Compact Flash medium since there will be an anti-copy protection mechanism.

It will be cheaper to produce and cheaper for the Jag lovers.

 

 

Some of us do not buy the protection. We have no idea how it works or if it

is good enough. As long as the CF is flash upgradable, it can be altered to

counteract the original protections in it.

[Atari_Owl]

... I have no proof that surrounded actually run in main ram because you forbid to disassemble any of your code.

 

I give you my word that i have been running substantial amounts of GPU code in main RAM for a few years now.

 

Since talking to Gorf i can confirm that his method is essentially very similar to mine. I therefore have no doubt in my mind that Surrounded IS indeed running from main as he states.

 

 

The question of the scale of the speed hit on RISC code when running from Main is not clear cut and depends greatly upon the specific code being run.

Edited October 2, 2007 by Atari_Owl

[Gorf]

... I have no proof that surrounded actually run in main ram because you forbid to disassemble any of your code.

 

I give you my word that i have been running substantial amounts of GPU code in main RAM for a few years now.

 

Since talking to Gorf i can confirm that his method is essentially very similar to mine. I therefore have no doubt in my mind that Surrounded IS indeed running from main as he states.

 

 

The question of the scale of the speed hit on RISC code when running from Main is not clear cut and depends greatly upon the specific code being run.

 

Yes and it is incumbant on what else is accesing the bus at the time. There are absolute instances when you will get the

FULL BUS SPEED throughput and times you will not but to say definitively that it is always 6 times slower out in main is just plain ignorance. Owl, Im on ICQ right now...

[SebRmv]

I pretty sure Scatologic would LOVE to re-release BattleSphere and I bet at

a reasonable price. But they too have the same concerns as we do and rightfully so.

 

They may want to release it on Compact Flash medium since there will be an anti-copy protection mechanism.

It will be cheaper to produce and cheaper for the Jag lovers.

 

 

Some of us do not buy the protection. We have no idea how it works or if it

is good enough. As long as the CF is flash upgradable, it can be altered to

counteract the original protections in it.

 

The flash upgradability is an important aspect of the JagCF

because it allows to fix potential bugs even after the release of

the hardware.

 

So, there is a part of trust here. Otherwise, it is a dead-end.