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JagCF last news before the before the launch of final proto.


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gorf says, "...Songbird is ridiculous in his prices and I've been saying that for a long time. If I wanted to profit

i'd be following Carl's lead. Oh , this is not something I have not said to Carl directly..."

 

you know, at least songbird produces games that people want. unlike some other talk company, i was able to get a hold of alpine games and sky hammer. it was kinda high but hey, i like em and feel it's worth the price. it's nice to know there's some legit atari supporting software store.

 

 

He also did not have to make those games and was in the right time at the right place.

I m suer a lot of us would have liked that same opportunity but not everyone gets lucky

like that. All I am saying it they were way too high priced. If you dont' mind paying that

price than that is your choice.

 

You can shoot your vailed insults at our coding team if you want but we have to actually write

the games from scratch. Think about that for a while.

 

call him lucky, say he had great timing, and say his prices are "ridiculous" but he puts out great stuff. some people talk about releasing stuff but songbird is a legit business and is godsent for us jag and lynx fans.

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I recently purchased Alpine Games for my Lynx...

 

The Lynx is a great example to look at. The emulation for Lynx is almost 100%, the ROMs are easily downloadable, you can play ROMs run on Handy on pretty much any laptop anywhere --- and yet people are still homebrewing and buying hobbyist-built carts.

No it's dead - it has to be, everybody is a pirate! Games can't be sold when digital media storage devices, emulators or computers exist! Authors will never receive compensation!

 

Or maybe not, because the Lynx community isn't diseased at its core.

 

 

And you say I over dramatize? :roll:

 

He didn't. That exaclty how a handfull of you guys are reacting.

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I agree about Songbird.

 

Not only that, he provides great customer service. I bought a sealed Tempest 2000 cart that turned out dead and he replaced it with no questions asked for example. For all he knew, I was someone trying to rip him off to replace a dead Tempest cartridge.

 

This community could use a few more people like him, instead of criticizing him.

 

There are not so many people criticizing him, in fact. Always the same guys.

 

About the prices, when you use a little your brain you can get them down easily. Carl is a cool guy, with an excellent service and always open to discussion.

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Well, concerning Songbird prices, do not forget the fact is that US dollar is ridiculously weak compared to Euro. So in the last year, the $ prices only changed a few, but the Euro conversion drop down a lot :D

So I think that Songbird's prices are very low, compared to the same price 5 years ago (when 90$ was more than 100€, no it is more like 70€) ;)

 

Indeed, there is other problems related (mainly for exportation).

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Well, concerning Songbird prices, do not forget the fact is that US dollar is ridiculously weak compared to Euro. So in the last year, the $ prices only changed a few, but the Euro conversion drop down a lot :D

So I think that Songbird's prices are very low, compared to the same price 5 years ago (when 90$ was more than 100€, no it is more like 70€) ;)

 

Indeed, there is other problems related (mainly for exportation).

 

Yeah for European people Songbird prices are low. And I wasn't talking even about that...

 

I think we are going again off topic here ;)

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And you say I over dramatize? :roll:

You completely skipped over my point to take a poke at remowilliams. :|

 

On every other system out there, both emulators and RAM-load carts have been welcomed eagerly by developers and fans. 2600, 5200, 7800, Vectrex, Colecovision, Intellivision, ... the list goes on and on. And yet on these same systems, we see a blossoming of new development. We're seeing more and more homebrews coming out, despite the availability of so-called 'pirating' options.

 

The Jaguar is the only system out there where anyone claims that such options will hinder development by hobbyists. Can you think of just one other system where that has been the case - even one? I can not.

 

People need to stop drinking the Jaguar Kool-Aid.

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And you say I over dramatize? :roll:

You completely skipped over my point to take a poke at remowilliams. :|

 

On every other system out there, both emulators and RAM-load carts have been welcomed eagerly by developers and fans. 2600, 5200, 7800, Vectrex, Colecovision, Intellivision, ... the list goes on and on. And yet on these same systems, we see a blossoming of new development. We're seeing more and more homebrews coming out, despite the availability of so-called 'pirating' options.

 

The Jaguar is the only system out there where anyone claims that such options will hinder development by hobbyists. Can you think of just one other system where that has been the case - even one? I can not.

 

People need to stop drinking the Jaguar Kool-Aid.

 

 

right? alpine games is a perfect example of a homebrew that's even better than most games that were released for the lynx. the other thing to is nobody is complaining about the price either. moreover, both development company and consumer are pretty satisfied.

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And you say I over dramatize? :roll:

You completely skipped over my point to take a poke at remowilliams. :|

 

On every other system out there, both emulators and RAM-load carts have been welcomed eagerly by developers and fans. 2600, 5200, 7800, Vectrex, Colecovision, Intellivision, ... the list goes on and on. And yet on these same systems, we see a blossoming of new development. We're seeing more and more homebrews coming out, despite the availability of so-called 'pirating' options.

 

The Jaguar is the only system out there where anyone claims that such options will hinder development by hobbyists. Can you think of just one other system where that has been the case - even one? I can not.

 

People need to stop drinking the Jaguar Kool-Aid.

 

I skipped over it becasue that same point has been brought up time and time again and I always answer with, how

about the fact that all those other systems are a lot LARGER by far than the Jaguar Fan base. Stop drinking the DL

koolaid. :roll:

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Well, concerning Songbird prices, do not forget the fact is that US dollar is ridiculously weak compared to Euro. So in the last year, the $ prices only changed a few, but the Euro conversion drop down a lot :D

So I think that Songbird's prices are very low, compared to the same price 5 years ago (when 90$ was more than 100€, no it is more like 70€) ;)

 

Indeed, there is other problems related (mainly for exportation).

 

EU pricing does not do us much good here in the states, now does it? :D

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I skipped over it becasue that same point has been brought up time and time again and I always answer with, how

about the fact that all those other systems are a lot LARGER by far than the Jaguar Fan base. Stop drinking the DL

koolaid. :roll:

 

seriously, do you really think that the jaguar fan-base is less important than the vectrex or the lynx one ?

facts ? :ponder:

Edited by mariaud
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I skipped over it becasue that same point has been brought up time and time again and I always answer with, how

about the fact that all those other systems are a lot LARGER by far than the Jaguar Fan base. Stop drinking the DL

koolaid. :roll:

 

seriously, do you really think that the jaguar fan-base is less important than the vectrex or the lynx one ?

facts ? :ponder:

 

It is not less important just a lot less...A LOT less in numbers.

You will not get anywher near the same numbers in sales for

Jaguar games and there for if enough folks copy the game I

lose becasue I dont get my money back for the printing and

DVD's and cases and runnign around and paying others to help.

 

ship me free materials enough to cover everyone and and enough

cash to cover shiping and paying my handlers(who do all the packing

and stuff)I'll ship them out FOC.

out

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It is not less important just a lot less...A LOT less in numbers.

You will not get anywher near the same numbers in sales for

Jaguar games

so there is more fans for the Vectrex than for the Jaguar ? how do you estimate the fans numbers ? actives members on JSII ?

 

and there for if enough folks copy the game I

lose becasue I dont get my money back for the printing and

DVD's and cases and runnign around and paying others to help.

ship me free materials enough to cover everyone and and enough

cash to cover shiping and paying my handlers(who do all the packing

and stuff)I'll ship them out FOC.

Gorf ?

do you mean some guys somewehere have produced and sold copy of your precious ??

proofs or paranoia ??

 

out

bye001.gif

Edited by mariaud
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How do you estimate the fans numbers ?

 

By other developer sales.

 

proofs or paranoia ??

 

It's neither about proof or paranoia but more like precaution.

There have been few who tried. I' e-mailed them with my

obvious objections and was told they would back off. If they

did or not is another story.

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And you say I over dramatize? :roll:

You completely skipped over my point to take a poke at remowilliams. :|

 

On every other system out there, both emulators and RAM-load carts have been welcomed eagerly by developers and fans. 2600, 5200, 7800, Vectrex, Colecovision, Intellivision, ... the list goes on and on. And yet on these same systems, we see a blossoming of new development. We're seeing more and more homebrews coming out, despite the availability of so-called 'pirating' options.

 

The Jaguar is the only system out there where anyone claims that such options will hinder development by hobbyists. Can you think of just one other system where that has been the case - even one? I can not.

 

People need to stop drinking the Jaguar Kool-Aid.

 

 

right? alpine games is a perfect example of a homebrew that's even better than most games that were released for the lynx. the other thing to is nobody is complaining about the price either. moreover, both development company and consumer are pretty satisfied.

 

Nobody complained in the Lynx community. Nobody pirated the game, and pirating on Lynx is easy (burning roms, emulators, etc etc.). Duranik is happy with sales. Talk about paranoia on Jaguar side, uh ?

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How do you estimate the fans numbers ?

 

By other developer sales.

 

 

 

Songbird sells Jaguar and Lynx games. If I remember correctly, Jaguar sales are higher than Lynx sales, sometimes 2x. So I think you're wrong.

 

 

Im talking ONE title not several. So I think you are wrong. I know what our numbers where

and I know Im right.

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And you say I over dramatize? :roll:

You completely skipped over my point to take a poke at remowilliams. :|

 

On every other system out there, both emulators and RAM-load carts have been welcomed eagerly by developers and fans. 2600, 5200, 7800, Vectrex, Colecovision, Intellivision, ... the list goes on and on. And yet on these same systems, we see a blossoming of new development. We're seeing more and more homebrews coming out, despite the availability of so-called 'pirating' options.

 

The Jaguar is the only system out there where anyone claims that such options will hinder development by hobbyists. Can you think of just one other system where that has been the case - even one? I can not.

 

People need to stop drinking the Jaguar Kool-Aid.

 

 

right? alpine games is a perfect example of a homebrew that's even better than most games that were released for the lynx. the other thing to is nobody is complaining about the price either. moreover, both development company and consumer are pretty satisfied.

 

Nobody complained in the Lynx community. Nobody pirated the game, and pirating on Lynx is easy (burning roms, emulators, etc etc.). Duranik is happy with sales. Talk about paranoia on Jaguar side, uh ?

 

 

 

I dont care if it happened on some other system. People were copying Gorf and I know that for a fact.

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How do you estimate the fans numbers ?

 

By other developer sales.

 

 

 

Songbird sells Jaguar and Lynx games. If I remember correctly, Jaguar sales are higher than Lynx sales, sometimes 2x. So I think you're wrong.

 

 

Im talking ONE title not several. So I think you are wrong. I know what our numbers where

and I know Im right.

 

So how do you explain Lynx sales on several games are smaller than several Jaguar games ? I don't get it, reading what you've said.

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And you say I over dramatize? :roll:

You completely skipped over my point to take a poke at remowilliams. :|

 

On every other system out there, both emulators and RAM-load carts have been welcomed eagerly by developers and fans. 2600, 5200, 7800, Vectrex, Colecovision, Intellivision, ... the list goes on and on. And yet on these same systems, we see a blossoming of new development. We're seeing more and more homebrews coming out, despite the availability of so-called 'pirating' options.

 

The Jaguar is the only system out there where anyone claims that such options will hinder development by hobbyists. Can you think of just one other system where that has been the case - even one? I can not.

 

People need to stop drinking the Jaguar Kool-Aid.

 

 

right? alpine games is a perfect example of a homebrew that's even better than most games that were released for the lynx. the other thing to is nobody is complaining about the price either. moreover, both development company and consumer are pretty satisfied.

 

Nobody complained in the Lynx community. Nobody pirated the game, and pirating on Lynx is easy (burning roms, emulators, etc etc.). Duranik is happy with sales. Talk about paranoia on Jaguar side, uh ?

alpine games is amazing. Duranik is amazing. he just puts out a hit on the lynx and everyone buys it. i personally think AG on the lynx is better than battlesphere is on the jag although both are great games and I own both.

 

case in point, the space incident is another lynx hit. it is available on handy rom yet the few that were available sold out like hot cakes. when someone releases it on cart, it will still sell like crazy and people on both development side and consumer side will be both happy.

 

jag cf is a great idea to a crippled jaguar. actually anything released is a godsend for the jag. anyone against it is against jag development. its sad to see so much schism among developers let alone jag fans.

Edited by phuzaxeman
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And you say I over dramatize? :roll:

You completely skipped over my point to take a poke at remowilliams. :|

 

On every other system out there, both emulators and RAM-load carts have been welcomed eagerly by developers and fans. 2600, 5200, 7800, Vectrex, Colecovision, Intellivision, ... the list goes on and on. And yet on these same systems, we see a blossoming of new development. We're seeing more and more homebrews coming out, despite the availability of so-called 'pirating' options.

 

The Jaguar is the only system out there where anyone claims that such options will hinder development by hobbyists. Can you think of just one other system where that has been the case - even one? I can not.

 

People need to stop drinking the Jaguar Kool-Aid.

 

 

right? alpine games is a perfect example of a homebrew that's even better than most games that were released for the lynx. the other thing to is nobody is complaining about the price either. moreover, both development company and consumer are pretty satisfied.

 

Nobody complained in the Lynx community. Nobody pirated the game, and pirating on Lynx is easy (burning roms, emulators, etc etc.). Duranik is happy with sales. Talk about paranoia on Jaguar side, uh ?

 

 

 

I dont care if it happened on some other system. People were copying Gorf and I know that for a fact.

 

You don't care if it happened on other system because it didn't. If it really happened on Lynx, you would be the first to say "Hey look ! It happened on Lynx. The same will happen with us on Jag"

 

But it didn't so you can't.

 

I know several people were copying Gorf, and I know one or two of these hypocrites. I know also quite a lot of people saying they are fighting against pirates, when they have illegal stuff at home. More hypocrites. But you'll always have these people, JagCF or not.

Edited by Pocket
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How do you estimate the fans numbers ?

 

By other developer sales.

 

 

 

Songbird sells Jaguar and Lynx games. If I remember correctly, Jaguar sales are higher than Lynx sales, sometimes 2x. So I think you're wrong.

 

 

Im talking ONE title not several. So I think you are wrong. I know what our numbers where

and I know Im right.

 

So ... it's the JagCD not the Jaguar ?

sounds more realist

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Upon Belboz' suggestion, I'm reposting a recap of Jagware's current "official" position on this matter :

Has any decision been made yet on what if any protection will be implemented?
Let's recap. (I won't discuss the case of new JagCF games : optional protection will be available to developers, this was planned from the start).

 

In the past I have been of the approach to allow it to run ROM titles, but put protections in to not allow titles like BS, and BSG, Songbird stuff (basically all the post Atari commercial stuff).
Given the "quake" this feature seems to generate in the community, we feel it's more prudent to do the reverse, at least at first : only allow "no-controversy" (protos, public domain, etc.) ROMs to run.

 

We did investigate a "strong" hardware-based protection method, but it turned out to be too complex to implement.

What we're planning now : the ROM-running feature will be disabled by default, and enabling will only be possible through an undocumented hardware protocol. This protocol will be released only to trusted developers on a need-to-know basis.

 

Then publish an official guaranteed detection technique to allow developers to detect and not run their code on the CF.
We think it's wiser NOT to give a single, public and "official" detection technique, because it would be more likely to be broken. In fact, there are tons of different ways of detecting the presence of the JagCF, and we feel more comfortable letting each programmer design their own protection (it's possible to do so using the information in the developer documentation we'll release publicly). We will help any developer if they request assistance from us. And yes, that means even Thunderbird or Gorf if they ask for it.

 

Hope this answers your question.

Edited by Zerosquare
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I don't know if Lynx market is smaller than Jaguar one. I have no idea of sales on both systems, but I have the impression that Jaguar forums are more actives, with many more subjects, and many more members participating. Even if my impression is also that number of Lynx releases and news are bigger :D

 

@phuzaxeman : thanks for the kind words on space incident, this is appreciated ;)

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This attempt at desperate "protectionism" says a lot about how far gone the Jag platform is. Multicarts are a fact of life. You're all going to have to accept it whether you like it or not and let the consequences be as they may.

 

Frankly, if people spent half as much of their effort at writing games for the Jag than they do arguing in forums like this, maybe it wouldn't have gotten to this point.

Edited by mos6507
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