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JagCF last news before the before the launch of final proto.


GT Turbo

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I think you would have a better level of support making a new console.

Why ?

Haven't we already a lot of support ?

You should also release the instruction set to the DSP to interested developers so they can start getting

it in their heads.

Some developers have already the instruction set of the DSP, but to make simpler the communications, modifications, choise, optimisations of the instruction set, this is limited to a few people because it is not 100% complete and I make a lot of improvement each time I work on it, so too much versions of documentations are existing.

While true that you don't have to use the DSP, I still think that when using the DSP, it would've been better served giving something new and different while also keeping the spirit of the original rather than just giving something completely different.

see below (about the 32X)

At 96 MHz and 8 megs...it's too different, IMHO.

8megs are not for the DSP only but it's mapped to the Jaguar Cartridge.

96MHz it's because it's a perfect solution to have the highest efficiency for the shared of the SDRAM between jaguar access, all JagCF DMAs and the JagCF DSP.

All of this without slow down the Jaguar access to the SDRAM.

 

To simplify me the development, everything into the JagCF work at this speed that's all.

Had it been another RISC at 30-40 MHz and, say, anywhere from 8-32 or so kbytes, then it would be sufficiently different enough to get better looking stuff running on Jag without taking it so competely away from the original design or from Atari could've done at the time. Essentially, as stated, it would be almost like a CoJag, which wasn't out of the realm of possibility at the time Jag was officially "alive" and supported by Atari.

What's about the falcon CT60 ?

For me and for many others, it's always a falcon because it use the falcon architecture.

But for me the falcon with a video card onto a CTPCI is not a falcon.

 

It's just a point of view, a limit between when it considered to an other system.

I'd liken this design to something like 32x, but even 32x had to be used with the stock chips in Genesis/MegaDrive, thus making it a definite add-on rather than an entirely different thing altogether.

The JagCF is exactly the same thing : more RAM, another CPU but require Jaguar chips to complete the sound processing, the video processing, the PAD control, etc....

The JagCF DSP can not be a master onto the Jaguar Bus because of the jaguar cartridge limitation.

 

His main purpose is to give the possibility to have access to MP3, MPEG or/and other things to permit to developers to have access to the full power of the jaguar with a compensation of original design faults.

Is there any possibility of having a version of JagCF with a less powerful RISC after you guys get this one out?

Why is the interest to make that ?

It's not because a processor run at 1GHz that you can not run 16MHz application on it.

Hey guys at Jagware, to boot, just because I am again curious, are you ever going to design your own logo also?

Just wanted to know man as that has been a great question as it should be that people that are tallented and resourceful should be able to ply that experience and knowledge towards a company logo of their own by now.

We have already our logo.

The way I look at it, you already took the name, at least try to make it your own without having to use the same logo Atari designed on their pamphlets.

Wich name ?

Wich logo ?

 

If you speak about Jag-Ware vs Jagware :

1) It's a mere chance that it's the "same" name, we search after a name "xxxware" from the idea of "software" and "hardware" and we choose "jagware" to have a reference to the Jaguar of Atari

2) It's not the same name : Jag-Ware vs Jagware

3) We have a logo that breathe-in from the Jaguar original logo : OK, and it's not the same that the Jag-Ware logo.

 

All of this is to keep in mind the "Jaguar" and have a direct reference to the game system, like everyone make the same thing with it's favorite mark or favorite game like we can find : T2KFreeker (I presume from Tempest 2000), Atariman, GT turbo, and many many others.

Why could we not make that also for our development team ?

Edited by SCPCD
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I think you would have a better level of support making a new console.

Why ?

Haven't we already a lot of support ?

You should also release the instruction set to the DSP to interested developers so they can start getting

it in their heads.

Some developers have already the instruction set of the DSP, but to make simpler the communications, modifications, choise, optimisations of the instruction set, this is limited to a few people because it is not 100% complete and I make a lot of improvement each time I work on it, so too much versions of documentations are existing.

While true that you don't have to use the DSP, I still think that when using the DSP, it would've been better served giving something new and different while also keeping the spirit of the original rather than just giving something completely different.

see below (about the 32X)

At 96 MHz and 8 megs...it's too different, IMHO.

8megs are not for the DSP only but it's mapped to the Jaguar Cartridge.

96MHz it's because it's a perfect solution to have the highest efficiency for the shared of the SDRAM between jaguar access, all JagCF DMAs and the JagCF DSP.

All of this without slow down the Jaguar access to the SDRAM.

 

To simplify me the development, everything into the JagCF work at this speed that's all.

Had it been another RISC at 30-40 MHz and, say, anywhere from 8-32 or so kbytes, then it would be sufficiently different enough to get better looking stuff running on Jag without taking it so competely away from the original design or from Atari could've done at the time. Essentially, as stated, it would be almost like a CoJag, which wasn't out of the realm of possibility at the time Jag was officially "alive" and supported by Atari.

What's about the falcon CT60 ?

For me and for many others, it's always a falcon because it use the falcon architecture.

But for me the falcon with a video card onto a CTPCI is not a falcon.

 

It's just a point of view, a limit between when it considered to an other system.

I'd liken this design to something like 32x, but even 32x had to be used with the stock chips in Genesis/MegaDrive, thus making it a definite add-on rather than an entirely different thing altogether.

The JagCF is exactly the same thing : more RAM, another CPU but require Jaguar chips to complete the sound processing, the video processing, the PAD control, etc....

The JagCF DSP can not be a master onto the Jaguar Bus because of the jaguar cartridge limitation.

 

His main purpose is to give the possibility to have access to MP3, MPEG or/and other things to permit to developers to have access to the full power of the jaguar with a compensation of original design faults.

Is there any possibility of having a version of JagCF with a less powerful RISC after you guys get this one out?

Why is the interest to make that ?

It's not because a processor run at 1GHz that you can not run 16MHz application on it.

Hey guys at Jagware, to boot, just because I am again curious, are you ever going to design your own logo also?

Just wanted to know man as that has been a great question as it should be that people that are tallented and resourceful should be able to ply that experience and knowledge towards a company logo of their own by now.

We have already our logo.

The way I look at it, you already took the name, at least try to make it your own without having to use the same logo Atari designed on their pamphlets.

Wich name ?

Wich logo ?

 

If you speak about Jag-Ware vs Jagware :

1) It's a mere chance that it's the "same" name, we search after a name "xxxware" from the idea of "software" and "hardware" and we choose "jagware" to have a reference to the Jaguar of Atari

2) It's not the same name : Jag-Ware vs Jagware

3) We have a logo that breathe-in from the Jaguar original logo : OK, and it's not the same that the Jag-Ware logo.

 

All of this is to keep in mind the "Jaguar" and have a direct reference to the game system, like everyone make the same thing with it's favorite mark or favorite game like we can find : T2KFreeker (I presume from Tempest 2000), Atariman, GT turbo, and many many others.

Why could we not make that also for our development team ?

 

Hi folks!

 

This discussion makes me sad. I haven't had much time to read the forums and not much interest either, because whenever I read a post, it's something like this.

Please, can somebody explain to me, why on earth do I always have to see this anti developer attitude in the Jag scene?

Why are so many people contanstly badmouthing, flaming and attacking developers who spend years of their valuable freetime, a lot of money and a lot of power into developing amazing new products for the Jaguar?

 

You all should be so grateful that there are even people remaining that support the Jaguar. What do we developers get as thank? flame wars.

 

I thank god that our fellow frech developers are there, and that they do what they consider to be best, no matter if others badmouth their work.

 

It's so incredibly frustrating to see the same fights against developers all over again and again. I don't want to step on anybodys toes, but I just can't understand why this is happening in the scene for so many years and why nobody stops that madness and nobody ever seems to learn.

Nobody forces anybody to buy a product they don't like, but please don't ruin it for the rest by attacking developers. It happened too often in the past.

So many developers left the scene out of frustration over the years, so many great games never saw the light of day, because of stupid fights like this.

 

The whole purpose of an addon is to make a system more powerful in a way. And JagCF is the most amazing thing I have ever seen on the Jaguar, it makes the Jaguar more the system should have been from the start. I as developer can't wait to get my hands on JagCF and see in it action myself. Why should any user be upset about more power, if it doesn't cost them more money?

 

The more power the Jag has, the better new 3d games will look. So many jag fans wanted to get games like quake for years, now the Jag may finally be a step closer to it. Just to name one example. No reason to attack a developer or badmouth their efforts for that. If you as player want to play games that make use of the original chipset only, then just don't buy games that use the DSP if that's what makes you happy.

 

 

Regards, Lars.

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I just feel the time and energy could be better spent writing games for the already exsisting hardware.

There is nothing wrong with the Jaguar as it is. Time could have been spent on new tools, tools that

could have been written for the original machine. You are just adding unecessary cost to the machine.

Yeah you get more power but no one has eevn come close to exhausting the jags power as it is.

I think it's the cart before the horse is all.

 

The 3D games will be fine if you code the machine with the risc's instead of the 68k. If you want

already well suported 3D, I suggest PC, Xbox/360/ Playstations series and Nintendo consoles.

 

Im just not seeing the need.

Edited by Gorf
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Gorf, you may not see the need, but it is obvious that other people see the need.

 

But, beeing a Jag fan, I would also love to see the stock Jaguar better used.

 

At the end, we'll have both : people working on Jaguar & people working on CF games with all these extra features and power, so why complain :)

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Gorf, you may not see the need, but it is obvious that other people see the need.

 

But, beeing a Jag fan, I would also love to see the stock Jaguar better used.

 

At the end, we'll have both : people working on Jaguar & people working on CF games with all these extra features and power, so why complain :)

 

That's exactly what I think too. :)

 

If somebody doesn't see a use for the features or doesn't want to use them, that's fine and other who want to use them can do it if they like.

 

I don't know how much JagCF will cost, but I don't think it will be higher than JagCD units and it will surely be a lot more reliable. So JagCF would not drive costs up for owners of a regular Jaguar. It would actually even safe users money and trouble, if they buy JagCF and a CF game instead of the same game (if it was availabe) for CD.

 

Just my opinion. Personally I can't wait to check out JagCF. Keep up the good work folks.

 

Regards, Lars.

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Gorf, you may not see the need, but it is obvious that other people see the need.

 

But, beeing a Jag fan, I would also love to see the stock Jaguar better used.

 

At the end, we'll have both : people working on Jaguar & people working on CF games with all these extra features and power, so why complain :)

 

 

Im pointing out valid issues. Im not complaining. Do what you want.

I really do not see the usefulness of the device and I dont think you have

anywhere NEAR a concensus like you might think you do.

 

Hey it's just my opinion.

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Hi folks!

 

This discussion makes me sad. I haven't had much time to read the forums and not much interest either, because whenever I read a post, it's something like this.

Please, can somebody explain to me, why on earth do I always have to see this anti developer attitude in the Jag scene?

Why are so many people contanstly badmouthing, flaming and attacking developers who spend years of their valuable freetime, a lot of money and a lot of power into developing amazing new products for the Jaguar?

 

You all should be so grateful that there are even people remaining that support the Jaguar. What do we developers get as thank? flame wars.

 

I thank god that our fellow frech developers are there, and that they do what they consider to be best, no matter if others badmouth their work.

 

It's so incredibly frustrating to see the same fights against developers all over again and again. I don't want to step on anybodys toes, but I just can't understand why this is happening in the scene for so many years and why nobody stops that madness and nobody ever seems to learn.

Nobody forces anybody to buy a product they don't like, but please don't ruin it for the rest by attacking developers. It happened too often in the past.

So many developers left the scene out of frustration over the years, so many great games never saw the light of day, because of stupid fights like this.

 

The whole purpose of an addon is to make a system more powerful in a way. And JagCF is the most amazing thing I have ever seen on the Jaguar, it makes the Jaguar more the system should have been from the start. I as developer can't wait to get my hands on JagCF and see in it action myself. Why should any user be upset about more power, if it doesn't cost them more money?

 

The more power the Jag has, the better new 3d games will look. So many jag fans wanted to get games like quake for years, now the Jag may finally be a step closer to it. Just to name one example. No reason to attack a developer or badmouth their efforts for that. If you as player want to play games that make use of the original chipset only, then just don't buy games that use the DSP if that's what makes you happy.

 

 

Regards, Lars.

 

 

Lars, I have never really had a problem with you dude, until lately. You ask why people are always flaming the developers for the Jaguar, well, one reason is faulty software. Don't give me the "Unreliable CD System" line either. You burnt the CD's way too fast and because of that, the Jaguar CD systems didn't want to read your discs and instead of doing the right thing like oldergames.com did and offer to replace the game for free, you did everything you could to get around it from making a boot disc that doesn't always work either to blaming the hardware to offering the software for download from your site so that the people that wanted a professional looking disc could download it for free. Some people may not always agree with Atari Age or Songbird, but I have never heard of them turning away faulty software. They always give out replacements if the stuff is broken and don't make up excuses about what is wrong with so and so's system.

 

Now, to the points of the Jag CF, this whole, why is everybody picking on Jagware about how their thing might be of no use, why oh why? Let's ask why they put so much hype into doing everything they could to prove that the current Jaguar Hardware was crap? They even tried to use the fact that your games L:ars, were having trouble loading on the Jaguar CD which we all know was a manufacturing flaw. It's like you guys did everything you could to make the Jaguar as it stands look so bad thatr what developers were left didn't want to touch the thing anymore and that was really crappy to do. So what now? We have to wait for your CF to release? Nice! Way to go guys.

 

Now, last but not least, you guys clain to be Jaguar fans, but now you try and say that you have never heard of Jag-ware? You also claim that you can't find it on Google? Are you sure about that? I can find it just fine, and hay, it is even the actual catalogs for them that shipped with the Jaguar system itself! Next thing I'll be hearing is that you have never heard of Cybermorph? Please guys, I notice you don't bring this stuff to JSII anymore because we all see through what you are trying to do. The Jaguar, as it stands, is alive and sell right now, and it may not be the most powerful system ever made, but it still has alot of breath left in her, and that's that. Atari lives through it and all of the other systems that were made by Atari, and you trying to make the system look bad and the developers that try and develope on a "Obsolete System" look bad, well it's gonna' back fire on you. You can bank on that.

 

Sorry about this all, but it's just my opinion is all. The facts are there too. You all said what you said and did what you did too and you can't change it.

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Now, to the points of the Jag CF, this whole, why is everybody picking on Jagware about how their thing might be of no use, why oh why? Let's ask why they put so much hype into doing everything they could to prove that the current Jaguar Hardware was crap?

 

Now, last but not least, you guys clain to be Jaguar fans, but now you try and say that you have never heard of Jag-ware?

 

Hi,

 

You must know two things, i am an Atari coder fan, not only Jaguar coder fan, not a collector. How many people here can tell they use an Atari machine for Jag coding ? I think i'm the one, the last.

 

We don't want to prove anything, never forget one thing, at the beginning the JagCF was only a new support system for the Jaguar, all others features have been added because that will cost no more, so why don't put it on ? As Starcat said, if you want to use one use it, if you don't want, don't use it, it's easy don't you think ?

 

Why i have never heard of Jag-ware, as i told before, i'm an Atari coder fan, nothing else, a coder who loves Atari machine, Atari coding nothing else, i got only one Jaguar game (Cybermorph), the only thing i love is coding (And bugging of course ;) ). My Jaguar was in a box during some years, i have started to code on Jaguar because i have meet Pocket from the RGC team and he explain me about underground and homebrew on Jaguar, if no tools were available on Atari machine, i will never start to code on this machine.

 

Stay cool, stay Atari !!

 

GT Turbo

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Lars, I have never really had a problem with you dude, until lately. You ask why people are always flaming the developers for the Jaguar, well, one reason is faulty software. Don't give me the "Unreliable CD System" line either. You burnt the CD's way too fast and because of that, the Jaguar CD systems didn't want to read your discs and instead of doing the right thing like oldergames.com did and offer to replace the game for free, you did everything you could to get around it from making a boot disc that doesn't always work either to blaming the hardware to offering the software for download from your site so that the people that wanted a professional looking disc could download it for free. Some people may not always agree with Atari Age or Songbird, but I have never heard of them turning away faulty software. They always give out replacements if the stuff is broken and don't make up excuses about what is wrong with so and so's system.

 

First of all the CDs can NOT be faulty as I tested them all in all imaginable ways. They all ran fine on my drives.

Second a lot of people never had any problems even if the original run.

Third, it's a fact that JagCDs are picky, that's something Jag fans and developers have been worriying about for years. Sadly nobody opens their mouth in discussions like this.

What do you think why Matthias had a problem with that for years until he finally released his Double Feature? It's also a problem I have seen with all CDs, even official games. But again nobody says a word.

 

Have you ever played the game yourself? Did you experience problems? Why is it that only very few people ever reported problems to me?

All of them got their problems fixed very fast and are happy the way it works now. Mostly it was due to their drives actually.

You know, I am always doing my best to make people happy, but if they don't want a solution, and just want to flame me, there is nothing I can do.

 

Think about it for a minute, if a disc was faulty, you couldn't even back it up to a PC, which most people did. If it was faulty the encryption would fail. But a replacement drive or different media always fixed the problems.

 

And in fact I did send replacement discs for free to those who contacted me by e-mail couldn't get their problems fixed in a different way. I even gave them back the money difference between limited and standard edition. What more can I do? If people complain on a board I don't read, I can not react to that. They all know my site and how to contact me if they want a solution for their problems. I also offered to allow everybody who still has problems to download the cd image and burn a disc themselves if they wanted to try that.

 

Afterall you don't go complain to sony about the ring of death on your xbox 360.

 

I can not make a difference, if people don't want it to be different. They seem to enjoy the flaming too much.

I am sick of protecting myself. I am not the only developer who is sick of this, actually most developers are constantly attacked for their efforts. Why is this?

So many people left the scene and so many great games never got finished. What is the point of that?

 

You can not imagine how frustrating that is. I always did my best and people who know me, know that too. The point is, people who never had contact with me personally or didn't even play a game I made attack me for reasons they just heard in flame wars. They don't even care if it's true.

 

One thing I will never understand is, why people can not state their opinion without attacking something. Your statement about JagCF is entirely badmouthing the whole achiement they made as well as their group. You could just as well say, that you don't see the use of it and that you think their choice of a name is not the best. Same statement, but friendly and you saved a lot of time and bandwidth.

 

That's how to optimise. And now let's get back to topic and I hope the flaming in this thread stops.

 

Regards, Lars.

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Lars, I have never really had a problem with you dude, until lately. You ask why people are always flaming the developers for the Jaguar, well, one reason is faulty software. Don't give me the "Unreliable CD System" line either. You burnt the CD's way too fast and because of that, the Jaguar CD systems didn't want to read your discs and instead of doing the right thing like oldergames.com did and offer to replace the game for free, you did everything you could to get around it from making a boot disc that doesn't always work either to blaming the hardware to offering the software for download from your site so that the people that wanted a professional looking disc could download it for free. Some people may not always agree with Atari Age or Songbird, but I have never heard of them turning away faulty software. They always give out replacements if the stuff is broken and don't make up excuses about what is wrong with so and so's system.

 

First of all the CDs can NOT be faulty as I tested them all in all imaginable ways. They all ran fine on my drives.

Second a lot of people never had any problems even if the original run.

Third, it's a fact that JagCDs are picky, that's something Jag fans and developers have been worriying about for years. Sadly nobody opens their mouth in discussions like this.

What do you think why Matthias had a problem with that for years until he finally released his Double Feature? It's also a problem I have seen with all CDs, even official games. But again nobody says a word.

 

Have you ever played the game yourself? Did you experience problems? Why is it that only very few people ever reported problems to me?

All of them got their problems fixed very fast and are happy the way it works now. Mostly it was due to their drives actually.

You know, I am always doing my best to make people happy, but if they don't want a solution, and just want to flame me, there is nothing I can do.

 

Think about it for a minute, if a disc was faulty, you couldn't even back it up to a PC, which most people did. If it was faulty the encryption would fail. But a replacement drive or different media always fixed the problems.

 

And in fact I did send replacement discs for free to those who contacted me by e-mail couldn't get their problems fixed in a different way. I even gave them back the money difference between limited and standard edition. What more can I do? If people complain on a board I don't read, I can not react to that. They all know my site and how to contact me if they want a solution for their problems. I also offered to allow everybody who still has problems to download the cd image and burn a disc themselves if they wanted to try that.

 

I can not make a difference, if people don't want it to be different. They seem to enjoy the flaming too much.

I am sick of protecting myself. I am not the only developer who is sick of this, actually most developers are constantly attacked for their efforts. Why is this?

So many people left the scene and so many great games never got finished. What is the point of that?

 

You can not imagine how frustrating that is. I always did my best and people who know me, know that too. The point is, people who never had contact with me personally or didn't even play a game I made attack me for reasons they just heard in flame wars. They don't even care if it's true.

 

One thing I will never understand is, why people can not state their opinion without attacking something. Your statement about JagCF is entirely badmouthing the whole achiement they made as well as their group. You could just as well say, that you don't see the use of it and that you think their choice of a name is not the best. Same statement, but friendly and you saved a lot of time and bandwidth.

 

That's how to optimise. And now let's get back to topic and I hope the flaming in this thread stops.

 

Regards, Lars.

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First of all the CDs can NOT be faulty as I tested them all in all imaginable ways. They all ran fine on my drives.

 

You still satisfy the customer. It does not matter if they worked in YOUR drive.

They need to work in the customer's drive. I for one wont buy from you based

on this alone. Thank goodness no one found a bad Gorf Disc. IF they had it would

have been replaced.

 

As far as badmouthing, Jagware and the crew were the first to start throwing

around insults so do some reading and some home work Lars. They attacked

BattleSphere and Gorf. They they claim the are the 'saviors' of the Jag. That's

not asking for crap, knowing there are other developers around, whom have

been around a lot longer even?

 

Give me a break.

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Hi Jagware,

 

For me, the JagCF is a must-buy item if it is still affordable. I'm glad new features are not

pushing the whole thing into the realm of an Alpine or JagCD cost wise. (Well, I hope not.)

 

The extra RAM is great, as an Alpine replacement for large games that's really attractive.

 

The fast-loading USB interface is also very interesting, because swapping a CF card from

a PC card reading into the Jag isn't an attractive way of doing game development either.

 

The keyboard/mouse interface is interesting, but no real interest to me.

The new UART/network interface sounds good, but most people will only have one JagCF...

 

The DSP would be a nice feature if it was instruction compatible with the existing GPU or DSP,

but I am not much bothered about that unless it could be used to emulate a 2600 for example!

 

As to what JagWare is called, I don't care. The confusion of naming is unfortunate, but hey,

all I'm interested in is seeing great new things, and so far your French team is delivering in

terms of enthusiasm and some great small games so far. That's all that should matter now.

 

Regards and good luck to the whole team!

Richard / JustClaws.

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As to what JagWare is called, I don't care. The confusion of naming is unfortunate, but hey,

all I'm interested in is seeing great new things, and so far your French team is delivering in

terms of enthusiasm and some great small games so far. That's all that should matter now.

 

Yes, plus we've seen the sCATBOX and the JAGLINK 2, I don't understand the issue :P

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If I may express my opinion, I'd say that this would haven't happened if the discussions were 'live' (as in face to face).

I noticed that sometimes the written words do sound heavier because the writer wants that the concept is clear. Unfortunatly, in order to acheve this, you have to use stronger words than necessary.

Then, the flames start.

 

I remember I read the very first annoucment and replies about JagCF, and I clearly remember the "you gonna kill the developers this way" attitude.

 

However, I always thought that this was just a "let's hope they won't run ROMZ on that thing" attitude, actually.

 

Then, we know we have some developers that can have real colourful and funny wordings, and again, maybe, written words without real face expressions can be sometimes irritating.

 

I am a Jagfan just the next AA or JS2 guy, and I am sure everybody appreciates the Scatologic work, as well as Gorf's team work, and Jagware work, and Starcat's work, and also publishers'/vendors' work like B&C and Songbird.

 

Of course everybody has got his own opinion. Let's just express it in a friendly manner, shall we?

 

</rant>

 

:-)

 

edit: By the way, I'd buy the CF just for running the new amazing games will be developed for it (yeah, Starcat, I'm talking to you!), since I would not be interested in USB downloading homebrew stuff that is not readily available on CF/cart/CD (I am a lazy one, I know), nor in the networking thing (I don't know if there are more then three active Jaguars in Italy) unless it can be deployed through the Internet.

Edited by Paolo
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Hi Gorf!

 

First of all the CDs can NOT be faulty as I tested them all in all imaginable ways. They all ran fine on my drives.

 

You still satisfy the customer. It does not matter if they worked in YOUR drive.

They need to work in the customer's drive. I for one wont buy from you based

on this alone. Thank goodness no one found a bad Gorf Disc. IF they had it would

have been replaced.

 

Of course they have to run on the customers drives. But I can't make sure they are in working shape.

At the same time it is simply not true that the discs themselves are faulty as well as the software. It just isn't.

Claiming it was is a lie. However people act as if it was a fact and that just isn't true.

 

Of course I want people to enjoy the games and people who know me, know very well that I am a person who does everything to help people.

And it's a fact that I helped all people who contacted me about problems.

 

I just hate to be blamed for selling discs that do not work, because it's not true. At the same time I hate to be blamed of not helping them, because I always did and always do, if they merely contact me about it. Is it too much to ask that people who have problems contact me about it instead of flaming about my work somewhere, where I might not even notice it and where I am not able to help?

 

Regards, Lars.

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Hi Paolo!

 

If I may express my opinion, I'd say that this would haven't happened if the discussions were 'live' (as in face to face).

I noticed that sometimes the written words do sound heavier because the writer wants that the concept is clear. Unfortunatly, in order to acheve this, you have to use stronger words than necessary.

Then, the flames start.

 

I remember I read the very first annoucment and replies about JagCF, and I clearly remember the "you gonna kill the developers this way" attitude.

 

However, I always thought that this was just a "let's hope they won't run ROMZ on that thing" attitude, actually.

 

Then, we know we have some developers that can have real colourful and funny wordings, and again, maybe, written words without real face expressions can be sometimes irritating.

 

I am a Jagfan just the next AA or JS2 guy, and I am sure everybody appreciates the Scatologic work, as well as Gorf's team work, and Jagware work, and Starcat's work, and also publishers'/vendors' work like B&C and Songbird.

 

Of course everybody has got his own opinion. Let's just express it in a friendly manner, shall we?

 

</rant>

 

:-)

 

edit: By the way, I'd buy the CF just for running the new amazing games will be developed for it (yeah, Starcat, I'm talking to you!), since I would not be interested in USB downloading homebrew stuff that is not readily available on CF/cart/CD (I am a lazy one, I know), nor in the networking thing (I don't know if there are more then three active Jaguars in Italy) unless it can be deployed through the Internet.

 

I really missed talking to you pal. :) Thanks you for your support and it's great to hear that you are still looking forward to Eerievale. I can tell you, you won't be dissapointed.

By the way, check out the Eerievale Website. I recently put a new design online and more news will follow soon. :)

 

To contribute to the discussion, my personal impression was the same. JagCF was from the beginning treated with the attitude you mentioned, at least that was my impression back then. Personally I felt like JagCF was a dream coming true for me. It is what I always hoped for on the Jag and while others may see it differently, I think it's sad that they can not be of a different opinion and show respect for the effort at the same time.

 

I mean, if a new game is released and it's not your favorite genre, you would still say "good work", wouldn't you? Simply because it's a new addition to the Jag library other people might enjoy. I kind of missed that when JagCF was announced and it seems also the new french games that are in development didn't get as much attention as they deserved.

 

In the end, I want to second Paolos statement, that it should be possible to state opinions in a more friendly manner.

 

Regards, Lars.

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Hi folks!

 

This discussion makes me sad. I haven't had much time to read the forums and not much interest either, because whenever I read a post, it's something like this.

Please, can somebody explain to me, why on earth do I always have to see this anti developer attitude in the Jag scene?

Why are so many people contanstly badmouthing, flaming and attacking developers who spend years of their valuable freetime, a lot of money and a lot of power into developing amazing new products for the Jaguar?

 

So posing questions, as I did, which in no way were overtly critical of anyone = "bad mouthing"?

 

What country do you live in?

 

Here in the US, it's called a healthy discussion.

 

I asked a question vis a vis the power of the JagCF, and stated my feelings on the matter. Nothing more. Not once did I "bad mouth" anyone or anything. I simply stated my P.O.V. and asked questions as to why they made it so powerful. Nothing more.

 

You all should be so grateful that there are even people remaining that support the Jaguar. What do we developers get as thank? flame wars.

I thank god that our fellow frech developers are there, and that they do what they consider to be best, no matter if others badmouth their work.

 

Who was flaming?

 

I was asking questions and giving my opinion.

 

Last I checked in the "free" world of civilized representative democracies, we can do that sort of thing.

 

I don't know what appearance discussion takes in (just guessing by your quote) France, but it can't be such that automatically paints questions with some critique as "bad mouthing".

 

The whole purpose of an addon is to make a system more powerful in a way. And JagCF is the most amazing thing I have ever seen on the Jaguar, it makes the Jaguar more the system should have been from the start. I as developer can't wait to get my hands on JagCF and see in it action myself. Why should any user be upset about more power, if it doesn't cost them more money?

 

I wasn't "upset".

 

Again, I must ask how healthy discussion and questions automatically turn to "bad mouthing" and being "upset".

 

I don't want to paint it as a "French thing" because I know people from France and they seem pretty open to healthy discussion. So maybe it's your own personal view on things.

 

I'm sorry to break it to you, but if it is your view that the questions I posed and the opinion I gave therein amount to "bad mouthing", then your view is skewed to say the least. I was not disrespecting anyone. Merely giving opinion and asking questions in a very civil manner.

 

The more power the Jag has, the better new 3d games will look. So many jag fans wanted to get games like quake for years, now the Jag may finally be a step closer to it. Just to name one example. No reason to attack a developer or badmouth their efforts for that. If you as player want to play games that make use of the original chipset only, then just don't buy games that use the DSP if that's what makes you happy.

 

My question was why the new DSP was so powerful. At 96 Mhz and 8 megs, it seemed a bit much. I don't know the technical particulars, but I just wondered why go all the way on that end instead of making something that Atari themselves could have done in the early and mid '90s. My opinion is that if they themselves couldn't go on that end during that time, why not add something they could have, like an extra RISC at lower clock speed and with less ram and maybe an extra cache or something. CoJag in a cartridge form, basically.

 

I was asking and giving opinion. I bad mouthed no one, and am looking forward to JagCF, as I have said so in many a topic. I just wondered why they made it so powerful and questioned whether it was too much. That's all.

 

So, please, stop taking it the wrong way.

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And thank you SCPCD for taking the time to answer my questions on it. I'm a bt unclear on the 8 megs, as even if shared by the Jaguar as a whole it would still be a bit much compared to other consoles at the time and what Atari themselves could have done at the time.

 

And that's where the discussion basically resides. It's something of a philosophical difference. I don't see a problem with an add-on cart, as JagCF is, but it's a bit iffy to me on a hobby level if it's outside of what could have been done at the time the console was "alive" and officially supported. I don't see Atari making an add on cart with an extra RISC at 96 Mhz. Another 25-26 Mhz RISC, yeah. Maybe a bit higher. 4 megs of RAM instead of 8, as that was the norm add-on RAM that gen (the N64 expansion pack, Saturn RAM carts).

 

But the JagCF developers are going a different route. They aren't using that philosophy. And there's nothing wrong with going in the direction they're going. I disagree with it philosophically, but it's not like I'm going to boycott or avoid the product based on that issue.

 

And I can somewhat understand the idea of 96Mhz being used to circumvent some of the problems with the Jag hardware if there is a bit of 68k code in the new games. And I can talk myself into writing off the extra 8 megs of RAM as something like the N64 expansion pack and Saturn RAM carts, as I stated. Would I like it to be less to fit into my philosophy on games for older platforms? Sure. But, again, it's not like I'll boycott the thing simply because of a philosophical difference.

 

I think, philosophically, that the PS2, as it was designed from a system architecture standpoint, was a P.O.S compared to the other consoles that gen (DC, GC, XBox). That sure as hell didn't stop me from gaming on a PS2 the most that gen out of any other console, and sure as hell doesn't make GoW, ICO and other faves less fun. And our own Jag has a ton of flaws in its design that I absolutely disagree with on a philosophical level. That sure didn't make a difference last night when I returned home after a bit of drinking and played Tempest 2K 'til the sun came up. :)

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Hi!

 

I didn't refer to you directly. Sorry if it sounded like an attack to you. I was merely upset about the attitude of some people regarding jagware and other developers topics like this seem to demonstrate. I'm also sick of the the whole situation developers are put into and talking about it.

 

Again, I wasn't refering to you. Sorry if you felt offended.

 

This thread just reminded me of many aspects of the Jag scene that frustrated developers of the past enough to leave the scene.

I just wished there was a way flame wars could be prevented in the future and it wouldn't happen again, that the jag scene looses more promising projects that way. That's all.

 

Regards, Lars.

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Guys, don't loose your time answering T2Freeker, he's trying to troll this topic with a question wich has already been answered a long time ago. Nothing new. Funny to see him concerned by rights, when you know he has been searching a pirate copy of Gorf.

 

If you're a real Jagfan, you enjoy when someone brings life in the system. If you don't like it, you just don't buy it. Badmouthing people are not welcome here on AA (spiffyone, I think you weren't concerned by Starcat words)

 

Back to CF discussion please :)

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Guys, don't loose your time answering T2Freeker, he's trying to troll this topic with a question wich has already been answered a long time ago. Nothing new. Funny to see him concerned by rights, when you know he has been searching a pirate copy of Gorf.

 

...Badmouthing people are not welcome here on AA...

Look a the bolded statement (the bold added by me) and then look at the statement you made above.

 

1st you don't have your story straight -- T2KFreeker was not searching for a pirated copy of Gorf.

Your statement will most likely invoke more flames, so thanks for "contributing" to the discussion :(

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So the Jag will one day see an Eerievale release? I thought that the Jag version was cancelled. (I could be totally wrong here)

 

I think StarCat is the best people for answering to your question, but i know that i can say that Eerivale will be release on Jaguar ;)

 

 

GT :)

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Hi!

 

Sorry, Lars. I mistook your post as an attack on me.

 

Looking forward to Eerievale...at least for Dreamcast. Is it still in development for that console as well?

 

I ask because I figure on DC you'd add mouse and keyboard support, which I prefer for point and click adventures.

 

Yes, Eerievale is still in development for PC, Jaguar and Dreamcast. Possibly other platforms as well, but those will come later.

 

I prefer mouse support for adventures games too, so I hope to include Mouse and Keyboard support on the DC. I already have those accessories.

:) In the case of the JagCF version I hope to do that too. :)

 

Regards, Lars.

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