Blackjack Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 (edited) I've always used Z26 with the X26 frontend, but I've noticed a lot of people on here prefer Stella. I'm curious why? Maybe I'll convert. Edited September 20, 2007 by Blackjack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE146 Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Z26 hasn't been updated in near 3 years hasnt it? Most recent Stella was just last month... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+stephena Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Z26 hasn't been updated in near 3 years hasnt it? Most recent Stella was just last month... Actually, the last Stella release was 3 days ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+batari Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 I've always used Z26 with the X26 frontend, but I've noticed a lot of people on here prefer Stella. I'm curious why? Maybe I'll convert. The biggest problem with z26 is that it's written largely in x86 assembly. For me, it's not very useful since there is no OSX port. I suppose it could be made to run on an x86 Mac, but why bother? Three years ago, z26 may have been ahead of Stella as far as speed and emulation accuracy went, but that gap has been pretty much closed and unless one is still running a 100 Mhz Pentium, that the speed difference is basically irrelevant. Plus, new features are constantly being added to Stella. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 The biggest problem with z26 is that it's written largely in x86 assembly. For me, it's not very useful since there is no OSX port. I suppose it could be made to run on an x86 Mac, but why bother? Yeah, that's a show stopper for me also since I use Macs full time. Unless an application is exceptional, I need to run it, and there is no OS X equivalent, I avoid Windows like the plague. ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+SpiceWare Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Initially because of the OS/2 port , now because of the OS X port. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted September 20, 2007 Share Posted September 20, 2007 Initially because of the OS/2 port , now because of the OS X port. Ahh, I miss OS/2! Your link to "a newer OS/2 port" appears to be dead.. ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackjack Posted September 20, 2007 Author Share Posted September 20, 2007 (edited) Well, I'll give it a try. Added: Just played with it for a while and y'all are right, it's way better. I'm converted. Edited September 21, 2007 by Blackjack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Trebor Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 I've always used Z26 with the X26 frontend, but I've noticed a lot of people on here prefer Stella. I'm curious why? Maybe I'll convert. The biggest factor for me is the remapping of "everything" is possible as well as mapping multiple inputs to one Atari/Emulator setting. For instance, I can map Joypad Hat Up, Joystick Up, Arrow Up, Num Pad 8, all to perform the same function as Player 1's joystick up on the Atari. MESS has the same advantage as well (Being able to map multiple devices/inputs to one Atari/Emulator setting). -Trebor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+SpiceWare Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 Initially because of the OS/2 port , now because of the OS X port. Ahh, I miss OS/2! Your link to "a newer OS/2 port" appears to be dead.. ..Al Hmm, looks like it's here now. I'll fix it if I decide to move my old OS/2 pages to my new site, the old one is going away because Houston's now Comcast instead of Time Warner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaGtGruff Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 Z26 hasn't been updated in near 3 years hasnt it? That depends on how you look at it, I guess. z26 hasn't been *officially* updated in a while, but supercat tweaked it a bit not so long ago to add his 4A50 bankswitching to it. Since Stella doesn't have 4A50 bankswitching yet, that's at least one reason to use z26-- *if* you're programming or playing a 4A50 game, and *if* you're using the modified version of z26! Also, z26 seems to handle the "Tron Man Picture Cart" (32K Tigervision bankswitching) just fine, but it won't run on Stella. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory DG Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 I've always used z26. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artlover Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 I use EMU7800 v0.60 myself. Not only does the 7800 run 2600 carts in real life, it does it in emulation too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybergoth Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 Three years ago, z26 may have been ahead of Stella as far as speed and emulation accuracy went, but that gap has been pretty much closed and unless one is still running a 100 Mhz Pentium, that the speed difference is basically irrelevant. Plus, new features are constantly being added to Stella. I agree on the 'speed' irrelevance and the added 'features', but I don't think that too much happened on the 'accuracy'. As I understand it, does Stephen not touch the emulation core at all and Brad is rarely available these days, or? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+stephena Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 Z26 hasn't been updated in near 3 years hasnt it? That depends on how you look at it, I guess. z26 hasn't been *officially* updated in a while, but supercat tweaked it a bit not so long ago to add his 4A50 bankswitching to it. Since Stella doesn't have 4A50 bankswitching yet, that's at least one reason to use z26-- *if* you're programming or playing a 4A50 game, and *if* you're using the modified version of z26! Also, z26 seems to handle the "Tron Man Picture Cart" (32K Tigervision bankswitching) just fine, but it won't run on Stella. Michael I'm still working on 4A50 support, but I don't know if it will be ready for the next major release (hopefully it will). As for the second issue, where can I get that ROM? I've never tested it before, so I don't know if it can be made to work or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+stephena Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 Three years ago, z26 may have been ahead of Stella as far as speed and emulation accuracy went, but that gap has been pretty much closed and unless one is still running a 100 Mhz Pentium, that the speed difference is basically irrelevant. Plus, new features are constantly being added to Stella. I agree on the 'speed' irrelevance and the added 'features', but I don't think that too much happened on the 'accuracy'. I also think that speed is no longer relevant. The code has been optimized more over the years, and compilers have gotten better as well. Also, Stella runs well on a 200MHz GP2X and 120MHz WinCE devices, so I think it's 'good enough'. As I understand it, does Stephen not touch the emulation core at all and Brad is rarely available these days, or? It's true that I haven't yet delved into the TIA stuff, but I am making progress in the shallower waters. But Brad is actually working on an updated TIA class, that we hope will be in the next release. Actually, it will be in the next release, because I'm not doing an new release without it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEBRO Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 I actually still use Z26. Maybe out of habit. I've got Textpad setup to run both but I generally send my binary through Z26. When I need to step through code though I send it through Stella for it's debugger which is great. Sometimes though the debugger doesn't give me what I need so I send it through Z26 with a trace. Overall...I still use Z26. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+stephena Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 I actually still use Z26. Maybe out of habit. I've got Textpad setup to run both but I generally send my binary through Z26. When I need to step through code though I send it through Stella for it's debugger which is great. Sometimes though the debugger doesn't give me what I need so I send it through Z26 with a trace. Overall...I still use Z26. It's good to hear that both are working with your development setup. But it would be nice to hear what debugger stuff you're not getting, because that's probably a bug that should be fixed. I know you posted a message about this a while back, but it would be nice to get a more detailed report (especially by someone who's doing active development). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 I still use z26 99% of the time. Emulation is still better and I am used to debug using trace files. Maybe I'll switch to Stella when the emulation gets more accurate. Or maybe not. After all haven't switched my video gaming console for 25 years now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEBRO Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 It's good to hear that both are working with your development setup. But it would be nice to hear what debugger stuff you're not getting, because that's probably a bug that should be fixed. I know you posted a message about this a while back, but it would be nice to get a more detailed report (especially by someone who's doing active development).The only thing that comes to mind right now is scanline count. It's easier for me to check screens that are unstable using Z26's log trace because it has multiple frames in one file. When I find a screen that's unstable then I can scroll up in the log and find the culprit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mos6507 Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 It's true that I haven't yet delved into the TIA stuff, but I am making progress in the shallower waters. But Brad is actually working on an updated TIA class, that we hope will be in the next release. Actually, it will be in the next release, because I'm not doing an new release without it Will this finally fix the Solaris takeoff glitch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempest Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 I use Z26 most of the time as well as the emulation is better and I'm use to the interface. Tempest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mos6507 Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 I've always used Z26 with the X26 frontend, but I've noticed a lot of people on here prefer Stella. I'm curious why? Maybe I'll convert. The biggest factor for me is the remapping of "everything" is possible as well as mapping multiple inputs to one Atari/Emulator setting. For instance, I can map Joypad Hat Up, Joystick Up, Arrow Up, Num Pad 8, all to perform the same function as Player 1's joystick up on the Atari. MESS has the same advantage as well (Being able to map multiple devices/inputs to one Atari/Emulator setting). -Trebor That's something that bugs me about Stella also. The classes that handle control are too literal and they set up a needless barrier. It really should be more low level so you can map whatever physical controller parameter to whatever virtual 2600 controller signal. Then you'd be able to simulate custom controllers. Otherwise you have to wait for Stella to come up with a specific controller type for every custom controller idea. I ran into this problem with Death Derby because Stella has a dedicated "driving controller" simulation but doesn't let you also map any extra buttons which are possible on the real thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+stephena Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 It's good to hear that both are working with your development setup. But it would be nice to hear what debugger stuff you're not getting, because that's probably a bug that should be fixed. I know you posted a message about this a while back, but it would be nice to get a more detailed report (especially by someone who's doing active development).The only thing that comes to mind right now is scanline count. It's easier for me to check screens that are unstable using Z26's log trace because it has multiple frames in one file. When I find a screen that's unstable then I can scroll up in the log and find the culprit. So you're saying it would be better to show the scanline count on the screen while in emulation mode (like -n in z26)? Or that the trace file in general is more useful for finding things?? The current debugger is more geared to 'immediate mode' debugging, while a trace file is a 'run and inspect later' type of thing. There's nothing to prevent us from adding such a mode to Stella; in fact, there's already code there to do that (but it's commented out). I just figured it was easier to find things in immediate mode. But I'll definitely look into adding a trace mode as well, as it doesn't seem too difficult to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+FujiSkunk Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 (edited) This may not apply to the most recent versions of Stella, but I prefer Z26 on Windows because the last time I used Stella, it would always end up switching to 320x240 at some point, even though I would tell it to use my desktop resolution. I have a particular problem with 320x240; when using the DVI connection, my video card outputs a small, vertically-stretched picture that doesn't fill the entire screen. It would be nice if I could tell Stella exactly what resolution to use. Edited September 21, 2007 by skunkworx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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