What is the game that Atari 8-bit is "known for?"

[Artlover]

For me it's Megablast. Only game I'd go out of my way to hook the 800xl w/512k up for.

[Xebec's Demise]

Hey, I'm really curious... I've been jumping in and out of playing with my Atari 8-bit.. my question is, what is the system "known for" as far as its best game.. Is there a stand out title that pushes the platform to its limits?

 

(that's right AtariAge readers, you guessed it... )

 

Star Raiders / AR: The City

 

Whether one personally likes the gameplay or not, Alternate Reality: The City is the stand-out title that pushes the platform to it's limits both technically and hardware-wise, along with introducing absolutely ground-breaking features and gameplay for computer gaming in general (click the link and see the wiki). Even the music in this game is superb, complete with lyrics, and really trumps everything else out there.

 

Ironically, it's a game that kind of flew under the radar. As a result, it may not be what the system is best "known for," with regard to titles like Star Raiders or PacMan, which came out much earlier and sold a lot of machines in Atari 8-bit's heyday, but it definitely has no equal, all things considered.

 

It was hand-coded by Philip Price using his own custom hardware and routines, and designed specifically for the Atari 8-bits to not only utilize the maximum standard memory available of 128k, but also multiple disk drives; the game itself spans four disks and two drives can be used simultaneously.

 

It undoubtedly would have been even grander if Datasoft had not stepped in, chopped it up, and sold it off with the sole interest of turning a quick buck. And, with the same disregard, paying the designer and programmer next to nothing, resulting in him giving up and moving on to put food on his table.

 

Originally, the game was designed to include six sequels, all of which were to connect to each other so that a player could travel to and from each area with the swapping of disks - if all areas were to be as large as the original City design, then the game could have easily spanned 48 disks total. The City was originally designed to have The Dungeon included in it along with a handful of establishments that Datasoft removed from the game design, such as casinos, brothels, and gyms. So, it would likely have been up to eight disks in size or more if Datasoft had not insisted on splitting up The Dungeon and The City and rushing The City out the door. Philip Price also had The Dungeon portion of The City nearly completed, but after not getting paid and leaving, Datasoft had no other choice than to hire some new programmers to step in, pick up the pieces and code their entirely own version of The Dungeon. As a result, The Dungeon ended up as a separate game, programed by different people and was not compatible with The City.

 

In spite of this, overall it's still the best commercial game for the Atari 8-bit - it's difficult for anyone to suggest that there is a better game for the Atari 8-bit without letting their personal gaming preference get in the way, since it is an RPG style game.

 

(Many at AtariAge probably groan at my apparent one act show, but AR is the only thing that still keeps me interested in the good old Atari 8-bit and coming back to this community and has probably resulted in some extra traffic here since I showed up, so that, in and of itself, is a good thing. )

Edited September 27, 2007 by Xebec's Demise

[Artlover]

Whether one personally likes the gameplay or not, Alternate Reality: The City is the stand-out title that pushes the platform to it's limits both technically and hardware-wise, along with introducing absolutely ground-breaking features and gameplay for computer gaming in general (click the link and see the wiki). Even the music in this game is superb, complete with lyrics, and really trumps everything else out there.

http://www.alternaterealityarchive.com/default.asp

 

Game & character disk downloads (amiga, apple, atari 8bit, atari st, c64, dos, mac), maps, active forums.

 

Apparently, this game has a large following.

[deathtrappomegranate]

In spite of this, overall it's still the best commercial game for the Atari 8-bit - it's difficult for anyone to suggest that there is a better game for the Atari 8-bit without letting their personal gaming preference get in the way, since it is an RPG style game.

That, of course, is entirely a matter of opinion.

 

I agree that it is a great game, but it's not possible to say that any game is "the best" in an objective way. It's difficult (nay, impossible) for anyone to suggest that any game is "the best", except in subjective terms.

 

Returning to the OP's point, the "killer app" for the A8 was, without question, Star Raiders, as others have said.

 

In 1980, as a kid, I spent a lot of time in electrical shops, using whatever computers were switched on, writing programs, playing games and so on. Star Raiders on the A8 used to make people stare, open-mouthed. The only other software that I saw provoke that kind of response was the hi-res photo demos that used to run on Apple II machines with added graphics hardware.

 

Again and again, I saw people walk into shops, knowing nothing at all about computers, who walked out with an Atari 400 or 800 and Star Raiders, having parted with >£600 just to play that game. That's about $1200 US, which was a heck of a lot of dough in 1980.

 

Of course, the A8 also had the benefit of many arcade ports which were very faithful to the coin-op originals, and games like Defender, Pac-Man, Dig Dug and Joust also helped to shift the hardware, but Star Raiders was the real "must-have" title.

[mimo]

Star Raiders was the "killer app" but I have never got into the game. For me the show stopper was Miner 2049er and Preppie!

Also LOADS of fun with 4 player Asteroids

[Fletch]

For me the killer apps were Ali-Baba and Return of Heracles. I remember having 4 joysticks hooked up the 800 with 2 or three friends sharing each stick. It was not uncommon to have ten 13 year old guys stuffed into my tiny bedroom laughing our rumps off with each whallop or smite.

 

Not until Quake 3 and Unreal Tournament came out and I hosted a few LAN parties did I have that many people playing a single game at once.

 

There was just something perfect about those games for me. I know they are sleeper titles, but for me it was what the Atari 8-bit was all about.

 

Fletch

[Shannon]

No doubt Star Raiders.

 

Other greats (already mentioned) were

 

M.U.L.E.

Alternate Reality

Miner 2049'er

Jumpman

 

I always thought it'd be great to create an 8-bit specific "skin" for the xbox 8-bit emu. But not only do I suck at that kind of thing but I couldn't make up my mind what elements to use. Just thought it'd be cool to have the ozark mule walking across the screen with the music playing.

 

It's a shame to here about the screwup with AR... Didn't realize there was an Amiga version.

[Wrathchild]

Also, at the time, something like "Attack of the Mutant Camels"

was a good way of championing the machine, also good as

there wasn't an A8 port of the 2600 'Empire Strikes Back' game.

[JamesD]

FWIW... aside from Star Raiders I'd have to say reputation (games) was the attraction of the machine rather than any particular title.

Just look at the comments here... Star Raiders or <pick 1 of 1000s>.

Some of the games mentioned sold a tiny fraction of the numbers that Star Raiders did and a few I have never even heard of.

 

If you look at what's on ebay (what people actually bought) the most common titles are Star Raiders and arcade ports like Pac Man, Defender, Donkey Kong, etc...

[FastRobPlus]

In spite of this, overall it's still the best commercial game for the Atari 8-bit - it's difficult for anyone to suggest that there is a better game for the Atari 8-bit without letting their personal gaming preference get in the way, since it is an RPG style game.

 

 

I agree that it is a great game, but it's not possible to say that any game is "the best" in an objective way. It's difficult (nay, impossible) for anyone to suggest that any game is "the best", except in subjective terms.

 

 

With an attitude like that you'll never make a good fanboy!

[Artlover]

http://www.alternaterealityarchive.com/default.asp

 

Game & character disk downloads (amiga, apple, atari 8bit, atari st, c64, dos, mac), maps, active forums.

Well, the C64 disks appear to be fubar.

 

Atari 800 ones worked. I moved twice, got into a fight, died, then deleted it. What the hell kinda RPG dumps you into a fight and kills you right from the start.

[Xebec's Demise]

In spite of this, overall it's still the best commercial game for the Atari 8-bit - it's difficult for anyone to suggest that there is a better game for the Atari 8-bit without letting their personal gaming preference get in the way, since it is an RPG style game.

That, of course, is entirely a matter of opinion.

 

I agree that it is a great game, but it's not possible to say that any game is "the best" in an objective way. It's difficult (nay, impossible) for anyone to suggest that any game is "the best", except in subjective terms.

 

Returning to the OP's point, the "killer app" for the A8 was, without question, Star Raiders, as others have said.

 

In 1980, as a kid, I spent a lot of time in electrical shops, using whatever computers were switched on, writing programs, playing games and so on. Star Raiders on the A8 used to make people stare, open-mouthed. The only other software that I saw provoke that kind of response was the hi-res photo demos that used to run on Apple II machines with added graphics hardware.

 

Again and again, I saw people walk into shops, knowing nothing at all about computers, who walked out with an Atari 400 or 800 and Star Raiders, having parted with >£600 just to play that game. That's about $1200 US, which was a heck of a lot of dough in 1980.

 

Of course, the A8 also had the benefit of many arcade ports which were very faithful to the coin-op originals, and games like Defender, Pac-Man, Dig Dug and Joust also helped to shift the hardware, but Star Raiders was the real "must-have" title.

 

Indeed, anything I type is my opinion. I'm sure everyone is aware of that, they don't need you to point it out.

 

And, likewise, Star Raiders is your opinion. However, I believe your opinion may be skewed by by the passage of time, your original experiences with Star Raiders and Atari, and the timing and effect of when Star Raiders happened to be released.

 

If, however, you take all the games ever made and compare all their designs, graphics, sound, features, gameplay and technology side by side objectively, you would be very hard pressed making the claim that Star Raiders was "better" than AR without a huge dose of personal preference. You would have a much better case to say that Star Raiders was in the right place at the right time.

 

Edited September 30, 2007 by Xebec's Demise

[MEtalGuy66]

In spite of this, overall it's still the best commercial game for the Atari 8-bit - it's difficult for anyone to suggest that there is a better game for the Atari 8-bit without letting their personal gaming preference get in the way, since it is an RPG style game.

That, of course, is entirely a matter of opinion.

 

I agree that it is a great game, but it's not possible to say that any game is "the best" in an objective way. It's difficult (nay, impossible) for anyone to suggest that any game is "the best", except in subjective terms.

 

Returning to the OP's point, the "killer app" for the A8 was, without question, Star Raiders, as others have said.

 

In 1980, as a kid, I spent a lot of time in electrical shops, using whatever computers were switched on, writing programs, playing games and so on. Star Raiders on the A8 used to make people stare, open-mouthed. The only other software that I saw provoke that kind of response was the hi-res photo demos that used to run on Apple II machines with added graphics hardware.

 

Again and again, I saw people walk into shops, knowing nothing at all about computers, who walked out with an Atari 400 or 800 and Star Raiders, having parted with >£600 just to play that game. That's about $1200 US, which was a heck of a lot of dough in 1980.

 

Of course, the A8 also had the benefit of many arcade ports which were very faithful to the coin-op originals, and games like Defender, Pac-Man, Dig Dug and Joust also helped to shift the hardware, but Star Raiders was the real "must-have" title.

 

Indeed, anything I type is my opinion. I'm sure everyone is aware of that, they don't need you to point it out.

 

And, likewise, Star Raiders is your opinion. However, I believe your opinion may be skewed by by the passage of time, your original experiences with Star Raiders and Atari, and the timing and effect of when Star Raiders happened to be released.

 

If, however, you take all the games ever made and compare all their designs, graphics, sound, features, gameplay and technology side by side objectively, you would be very hard pressed making the claim that Star Raiders was "better" than AR without a huge dose of personal preference. You would have a much better case to say that Star Raiders was in the right place at the right time.

 

 

I dont whole-heartedly agree with that. I think star raiders was pretty damn revolutionary, even at the time that alternate reality was released, and afterwards. And. Just to let you know, when I saw the adds for alternate reality, I sold my Harrow BMX bike to the kid down the street, and scrounged about half a summer's worth of lawn-mowing money just to buy it. And I was VERY impressed by it. and have never regretted the purchase. But.. I still think star raiders is an AWESOME game from the standpoint of playability, game design, and all-out ability to challenge, entertain, and interest me even after 20+ years. And. for a game that fits in 8k and runs in 16k, its a unbelievable example of the absolute best in game-coding.

[Gregory DG]

I was a casual Atari 8-bit player back in the day. I got a few Antics here and there, took a computer class, visited an Atari computer store occasionally (there was one in my small town!), typed in programs, etc.

 

Back then I had heard of Star Raiders, although I don't think I ever played it. (I was more interested in arcade conversions like Donkey Kong.) I certainly remember seeing the box at the store and seeing it in Antic.

 

As for Alternate Reality... I had never heard of it until 2002 when Ken Sarmiento submitted a review for TAT. So I would be hard pressed to say that AR had any impact on the 8-bits at the time.

[kevin242]

Also, at the time, something like "Attack of the Mutant Camels"

was a good way of championing the machine, also good as

there wasn't an A8 port of the 2600 'Empire Strikes Back' game.

 

There actually was a port of Empire Strikes Back

[www.atarimania.com]

Not an official one.

 

--

Atari Frog

http://www.atarimania.com

[Xebec's Demise]

I dont whole-heartedly agree with that. I think star raiders was pretty damn revolutionary, even at the time that alternate reality was released, and afterwards. And. Just to let you know, when I saw the adds for alternate reality, I sold my Harrow BMX bike to the kid down the street, and scrounged about half a summer's worth of lawn-mowing money just to buy it. And I was VERY impressed by it. and have never regretted the purchase. But.. I still think star raiders is an AWESOME game from the standpoint of playability, game design, and all-out ability to challenge, entertain, and interest me even after 20+ years. And. for a game that fits in 8k and runs in 16k, its a unbelievable example of the absolute best in game-coding.

 

Interesting story, thanks for sharing. I had a BMX bike back in those days too...quite a sacrifice that was! I never even new about AR though until much later. It had flown under my radar, just like probably most people.

 

Well, maybe I should dig out my copy of Star Raiders and give it fresh objective side-by-side comparison with Alternate Reality: The City, then. That would be the only fair way, since memory is never perfect.

 

When I got my first Atari 800 it came with Star Raiders and Pac-Man and I played them both a lot, but overall, I don't recall Star Raiders being anywhere near as innovative or groundbreaking as AR, nor do I think it is "...a stand out title that pushes the platform to its limits." It may, however, be one of the games that Atari 8-bit is best "known for."

 

And, so if we are just going on only what the Atari is best "known for," I will agree that Star Raiders is one of the games on the list and AR is not, because when it comes to just being known, sales numbers are the most important.

 

As far as "best" game, that will always be debated. And, I expected to be bashed on anyway...especially with an AR avatar, and several AR links in my sig. I just totally love the game though and highly respect Phil as a programmer. Here is one guy that crammed everything he could into his game and made it as believeable as possible, he essentially spent his life writing the game at the time, not for money, but for pure passion!

 

...the thing that always gets me, is imagining Phil there in his little shack in Hawaii, with no running water or electricity, powering his custom 8-bit off of a generator and pounding out a magnificent piece of artwork like Alternate Reality.

 

Phil is like the Pablo Picasso of Atari 8-bits...

 

"There were times of severe poverty, cold, and desperation. Much of his work had to be burned to keep the small room warm." Pablo Picasso

 

The only thing is, it was Datasoft that burned Phil's artwork, to keep themselves warm.

 

Now, Star Raiders, on the other hand, was developed at Atari in a corporate environment with plenty of funding and development software, and designed specifically to make Atari a lot of money.

 

It's ok, to each his own. But, the side-by-side comparison might prove interesting...

Edited October 1, 2007 by Xebec's Demise

[supercat]

And, likewise, Star Raiders is your opinion. However, I believe your opinion may be skewed by by the passage of time, your original experiences with Star Raiders and Atari, and the timing and effect of when Star Raiders happened to be released.

 

Most of the games for the Atari 800, including most of the better ones, were also available for other systems. Sometimes the ports were better; other times worse. Often, though, they were about the same. MULE using keyboard + joystick probably isn't as nice as MULE with four joysticks, but it's perfectly playable.

 

Star Raiders is probably the best none A8 exclusive title and it is certainly the title I most associate with the A8 (even though I'll admit I've never owned an 800--I just played my cousin's a few times).

[Xebec's Demise]

Point well taken.

 

Although, AR: The City is one of the games where the ports are lacking compared to the 8-bit version, probably since it was specifically designed for the Atari 8-bit. I think when programmers are paid to make a port, many just try to get the basics right.

 

Anyway, AR is mostly a victim of poor marketing, but if you want to see some of the capabilities of an Atari 8-bit, then AR: The City is definately a game to load up with the speakers on.

Edited October 1, 2007 by Xebec's Demise

[+remowilliams]

Got to go with Star Raiders as well.

 

In 1980, as a kid, I spent a lot of time in electrical shops, using whatever computers were switched on, writing programs, playing games and so on. Star Raiders on the A8 used to make people stare, open-mouthed.

I remember it vividly, I used to stare at that awesome beige beast running Star Raiders in the front window of the computer shop.

 

Fast forward all these years, and I've got that box just as beautiful as it was in 1980.

 

[Xebec's Demise]

You know, looking at the artwork and name, it almost looks like a rip-off of "Star Wars," Tie-fighters and a Death Star.

 

It was, indeed, released two years after the huge Star Wars hit.

Edited October 1, 2007 by Xebec's Demise

[Xebec's Demise]

According to this page:

 

http://www3.sympatico.ca/maury/games/space/star_raiders.html

 

Star Raiders was Atari's, "...first game on the platform."

 

Is that accurate?

[Nukey Shay]

Pretty much, since the game was started by Doug a year before the computer's release.

[MEtalGuy66]

Pretty much, since the game was started by Doug a year before the computer's release.

Yep. If you read his interviews he says that he actually coded it on wire-wrap prototypes of the atari 800 before the 8-bit home computers were even produced.

He said he did it more out of novelty, just to make something that ran on the platform, in those days. Its amazing that he came up with such a ground-breaking game. I wonder how much compensation he recieved from atari, since they ended up selling it as a smash hit title for their next 10 machines. heh. and since they never asked him to write the game to begin with..

[JamesD]

Part of the problem with discussion is the original question.

You seem to have people either going the "known for" route or "pushes the platform to it's limit" route.

 

First of all, I think both qualify as far as "landmark title" goes. But neither title may meet all the criteria.

 

Star Raiders probably didn't push the platform to it's limit but the machine is definitely known for it and it was probably one of if not the top seller on the machine. It's still being talked about today.

 

Alternate Reality: The City definitely pushes the chipset to the limit... but I don't think the machine is "known for" it. I certainly haven't seen any articles dedicated to it beyond old reviews and it's available for several machines. I think it was actually more popular on the C64.

Edited October 1, 2007 by JamesD