Mass Effect

[moycon]

All in all this is a great game with a few things that will hopefully be improved in the sequel.

 

My understanding is you'll be able to import your custom character in the sequels (and they will have the attributes you assigned to them being a ...nice guy, ass-hole, etc...) so be sure and play well my friend and think towards the future when you do.

Edited March 7, 2009 by moycon

[DaytonaUSA]

All in all this is a great game with a few things that will hopefully be improved in the sequel.

 

My understanding is you'll be able to import your custom character in the sequels (and they will have the attributes you assigned to them being a ...nice guy, ass-hole, etc...) so be sure and play well my friend and think towards the future when you do.

 

Yea that's correct. They've been telling people to keep their save files over and over the last month or so now. I never did get to finish the first one.. never had that much free time on my hands . Was the ending pretty eventful or was it predictable?

[Artlover]

try playing it being a total dick the entire game. Funny as hell, plus you get the see the pg rated sex scene.

 

Heh, useful advice, you don't absolutely have to be a dick to get the ladies. I was about as much of a Paragon as possible during my first play-through, and I still got the "sex scene" (w/Liara). I use that term very loosely...

Yeah, being a dick has nothing to do with it. It's all a matter of knowing how to have a mature "get in your pants" conversation with someone. I've been good all the times I've played it and still got both sex scenes. Well, if you can call them that. Typical TV commercial shows more. But atleast it's more then Fable 2 gives you (black screen with stupid diologue). (Fable2 - another rant by me about to start once I find the most recent Fable 2 thread!)

[moycon]

another rant by me about to start once I find the most recent Fable 2 thread

 

We'll all be waiting with bated breath.

Let me take a wild guess. You don't like several (dozen?) things about the game and you need to get it off your chest?

[ianoid]

Don't speak ill of Fable 2, my second life. Actually I'm almost done playing that game, and it does have flaws. I'll check that thread.

 

I just started Mass Effect. Unlike many of you, 40 hours of gameplay seems impossibly long for me. I'm actually good with a 15-20 hour game. I play games maybe 6 hours a week on average- and I'm probably being generous. Still, the story has roped me in, it's not so contrived like most games.

 

With some shortcomings, this has to be the future of interactive storytelling. There are elements of choose your own adventure, RPG, action fighting, and sandbox freedom. Really impressive.

 

I'm glad it's not like Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic. I didn't like that fighting interface, and I don't like turn based fighting either. I want to get right into the action.

 

Considering it sold well and is quite inexpensive, it's just another game with a very high value for the dollar (with cheap used copies and even inexpensive new copies) available for the 360.

[Artlover]

and sandbox freedom

Mass Effect has sandbox freedom?

 

Are you playing some special edition of it?

[moycon]

and sandbox freedom

Mass Effect has sandbox freedom?

 

Are you playing some special edition of it?

 

How exactly would you describe the planets you land on and explore with your Mako Artlover?

[Lord Helmet]

and sandbox freedom

Mass Effect has sandbox freedom?

 

Are you playing some special edition of it?

 

 

Most of the game is nonlinear...there are certain missions you have to complete to move the story forward, but most of the other stuff you can do in whatever order you wish.

[Hyper_Eye]

and sandbox freedom

Mass Effect has sandbox freedom?

 

Are you playing some special edition of it?

 

You never fail to give me a good laugh Artlover. I am glad you are always in such a joking mood.

 

Get it? He said your playing a special edition... because he can't find the sandbox. Oh man... that Artlover! Good stuff.

[Artlover]

How exactly would you describe the planets you land on and explore with your Mako Artlover?

So I can drive "anywhere" on the planets. I can go off the trail and explore the outback? It's not as if I'm, oh, I dunno, stuck on a linear pathway that extends between points A and points B? I mean, sure, I could stop half way, turn around and head back to the drop spot, but there ain't a whole hell of a lot else I can do, now is there?

 

With nearly a nary of exception, if I'm in the Mako, I'm on a bridge, in a tunnel, on a cliff, on a carved out rock face, in a valley or some other scenario where my path of travel is controlled to what can only be described as linear.

 

Most of the game is nonlinear...there are certain missions you have to complete to move the story forward, but most of the other stuff you can do in whatever order you wish.

Well, here is what the thing might be.

 

I reject the rather loose definition of sandbox simply equals nonlinear. To that end, I reject the idea that simply picking the order in which you do something is nonlinear. It doesn't work as a classification because the rules are to loose and why rail shooters (*cough* L4D * cough*) end up getting slapped with the nonlinear label. Hell, by the loose defintion you could probably call a tile flipping memory game nonlinear & sandbox because you are choosing which two tiles to flip.

 

To me, sandbox is something a little more grandios. You can go anywhere/everywhere and do anything/everything. Where plot objectives are less/not structured. Where there only exists an end goal, and how I get there is my business.

 

Let me give you an example of linearity in Mass Effect. Noveria. You HAVE to go to Noveria at some point. You HAVE to speak with Anoleis. You HAVE to get a passcard. You can't even begin to work on getting a passcard till you've spoken with Anoleis first. All doors are locked except ones that pertain to where you're allowed to go after speaking to the right people at the right time. Linear structure. Sure, there are a couple of different ways to get the passcard, but they all involve following a specific set of steps done in a specific order and only after you've tripped an in-game trigger that allows those scenarios to play out. Your great nonlinear choice is to decide which linear path you are going to take. Why isn't the only goal to reach the Hot Labs, and everything else is purely up to you. Where is the, skip everything, go right to the garage entrance, kill the guard, break in and steal the Mako option? Where is the, skip everything, break into an empty office and sneak through the ventilation system into the garage and steal the Mako option? Where is the, just kill everyone and do whatever the hell you want like lift a passcard off a corpse option. You are after all a Spectre and above the law.

 

The entire game is like that. And for what it's worth, this is the important thing now, it doesn't matter what choices you make or how much of a Saint or Sinner you make yourself out to be, because it doesn't change game dynamics any beyond diologue in conversation.

 

It's no Fable 2 or Fallout 3 where your specific actions at any momment have a long lasting future impact in dictatating what happens to you and how the rest of the game will play. Choice here is just arbitrary for the sake of it with no purpose.

 

Sorry, but no, I do not accept that as being sandbox.

Edited March 27, 2009 by Artlover

[legeek]

Artlover, the OP means the freedom to explore the small planets even if they are limited, doing things out of order and all the optional side quests.

 

"There are elements of choose your own adventure, RPG, action fighting, and sandbox freedom"

It's not strictly sandbox like say GTA, but we all know what he meant. Look at the above quote. But yeah I agree it's not strictly sandbox, but all the optional stuff makes it more that just choosing the order...

 

If you don't like the game I can see that it isn't for everybody, but I am really enjoying it.

 

 

So I went back to the Ice Planet when it had previously defeated me. Having completed the other two initial story missions and a bunch of the planets, I walked back into that combat situation, Persuaded a few to leave, then basically shot down the bad guys with the pistol sans cover like the main hero in a cliche western. It was totally awesome.

 

It is weird that this is the 2nd major mission about a corporation playing with alien stuff for profit and it subsequently going awry. I hope this isn't a theme...

Edited March 27, 2009 by legeek

[Hyper_Eye]

Artlover, did you ever attempt to go off the path of the storyline? There are a bunch of planets you can go to and explore a large non-linear area of the planet. You can go to different planets anytime you want. A lot of times you will find side-quests and stuff while doing this. You are describing strictly the linear storyline but the presence of it doesn't make the game non-sandbox. It gives you a plot path and something linear to follow for those that don't have time to mess with the other stuff. Many games that are defined as "sandbox" contain the same element such as GTA, Oblivion, Fallout 3, etc. Without it you end up with a game where the purpose becomes almost impossible to grasp such as X3. Whatever though... I never expect anything to please you. You have gotten to the point to where you find things to bitch about without even bothering to know what your talking about.

[moycon]

You have gotten to the point to where you find things to bitch about without even bothering to know what your talking about.

 

You think he just got to that point now?

I didn't realize there was ever time this wasn't so. I'm convinced being negative makes some people happy. Go figure.

 

The good thing is, all this talk about the game reminded me how great it is. I still need to play through on the hard setting.

Has anyone done this? I think I started one a long time ago and it was....hard.

There were few things cooler than driving the Mako around on a distant planet on my 40" HDTV and feeling the guns discharge while wiping out enemies (killer bass)

[Tickled_Pink]

Artlover, did you ever attempt to go off the path of the storyline? There are a bunch of planets you can go to and explore a large non-linear area of the planet. You can go to different planets anytime you want. A lot of times you will find side-quests and stuff while doing this.

You can?

 

Didn't realise that. Once I've finished with Band of Brothers, I'll have to get back to it.

[Atarifever]

Played this for the first time today. It's amazing. I hate upgrading and squad control though, so I wish I was only really responsible for my own guy. Still, beautiful game, and the voice work is top notch.

[legeek]

Yeah combat takes a while to get the hang off, but it's pretty cool once you level up a bit. Using the D pad to issue commands to your squad didn't do much for me, but using the right and left bumpers to pause the action to switch weapons and use the equivalent of force powers is pretty useful.

 

Just finished Noveria. I can't remember the last time I played a Role Playing game and felt I was ACTUALLY Role Playing.

[Atarifever]

Okay, I'm deeper into it now. Just got the ability to visit other planets and then visited a bunch of them before settling on knocking off some cultists. I don't know how anyone can call this anything but a sandbox. I've read what was written above defending the view it isn't one and I guess that's true insofar as a tree is a rocketship (i.e. it is not true in any way at all, ever).

 

I chose to complete some "make people agree to get along" quests on the citadel place before flying out. I was free to not do those. I also didn't even visit parts of that place (banking district for example) and don't even know what was there. Now I'm flying around the galaxy deciding what things I want to do before the next story segment, and I may ignore some of my side quests completely. I spent awhile last night driving up and down mountains, as I hate the "paths" between objectives, and can't be bothered to follow them. When entering a system I read all the information about all the planets, and survey the ones I can. I could, of course, ignore them all. In order to get most side quests I had to find them by talking to people/ computer terminals I could have ignored, and I probably have missed a bunch. So I have an overall story, with a bunch of events that kind of have to happen, but that are surrounded by a galaxy full of things I can decide to do if I want. That's as sandbox as it gets. I have to ask what else is expected.

 

By the definition that I have no mission overall and the freedom to "do anything" there isn't a sandbox game in existence Go load up GTA. No go to University in it and earn your BA. I know, walk into any random building and start a fulfilling friendship with a random guy where you eventually end up at his funeral after he dies of a heart attack. I know, don't fucking shoot anyone, steal anything, talk to anyone and see how far the game "advances" based on your wanting to just go read a book at a virtual Barnes and Noble. Oh, here's another one, go to another planet and kill cultists. Because I chose to do that last night in Mass Effect. I assume since you can do "anything" in a sandbox game, you can do that in GTA too.

[Artlover]

Artlover, did you ever attempt to go off the path of the storyline?

As a matter of fact, I have. About a 1/4 of them. Sure, many have side quests. A lot of those planets are completely barren too with noting to do other then aimlessly drive around with no purpose.

[moycon]

A lot of those planets are completely barren too with noting to do other then aimlessly drive around with no purpose.

 

None of the planets you can land on are completely barren. There are many that can't be landed on at all, but of those that can be, I don't recall any that were 100% barren. Me thinks maybe you haven't explored the game as much as you claim, which maybe explains your lack of knowledge when you discuss the game.

[Atarifever]

A lot of those planets are completely barren too with noting to do other then aimlessly drive around with no purpose.

 

None of the planets you can land on are completely barren. There are many that can't be landed on at all, but of those that can be, I don't recall any that were 100% barren. Me thinks maybe you haven't explored the game as much as you claim, which maybe explains your lack of knowledge when you discuss the game.

I don't know. Seems more like a lack of logic than of experience is the real problem. Even were it true that some of the many, many planets one can complete some of the many, many optional sidequests on were barren, that wouldn't make the game not a sandbox. Many of the rooms in GTA games don't have much of anything in them. As I said before, no sandbox has infinite choices. Even in real life sandboxes, you're pretty much limited to using sand and maybe a few toys you brought from home. It's not supposed to be unlimited potential, just a lot of options.

 

Mass Effect offers lots and lots of choices, and even places the main quest in an order of your choice. So you have choice over when and how the main events happen, and can choose to do/not do/ not look for as many different side quests as you want. Once you choose a side quest, there's a good bit of choice in how to pursue it, right from how to approach enemy defenses, to if you attack on foot or in a vehicle, to if you go to all areas of interest or right for the main mission, to if you bother to complete a mission once you start it. Then, once you finally arrive at the end of a mission (optional or no) you can generally even decide how to end the mission (say killing someone or letting them go free). Add to this the ability to outfit your group as you see fit, to choose which members to bring on any mission, and to choose your background story and character design, and it's unlikely the Mass Effect experience will be the same for any two players. You could arguably do the entire game with the default character, only do story missions, go in straight lines to enemies on any planet, and always choose the most neutral option, but even doing that is choosing how the game will play for you, and it will be nothing at all like the experiences of other players, doing random numbers of side quests, in different orders, and making different decisions.

 

And even if there were some barren planets, that would add to, not detract from, the ability to label this a sandbox game. Some planets will be barren in the real universe. Being able to find one and drive around on it mindlessly flying off mountaintops for fun is one more option, not one less.

[moycon]

And even if there were some barren planets, that would add to, not detract from, the ability to label this a sandbox game. Some planets will be barren in the real universe. Being able to find one and drive around on it mindlessly flying off mountaintops for fun is one more option, not one less.

 

Here's the thing. None are barren that I remember. Sure not every planet has a quest involved, but all include items (tags, minerals, artifacts etc...) to find that ultimately earn you achievements and perks in the game. The only reason they would be barren would be if you already visited the planet. Seems to me that right there is a purpose to the driving around.

Edited May 3, 2009 by moycon

[Artlover]

Don't know why people keep saying GTA. I don't consider it to be sandbox either. There is nothing out there that really is. Fallout 3 is kinda sorta almost pretty close. But even that still limits you.

 

Regarding planets in Mass Effect. Ok, if we want to be litteral about it. Yes, you can find "something" on every one of them. Even the ones you can't land on. The value they have in bothering to discover on the otherhand. Sure, land on Presrop or something, manage to travel to the parameter zone border when you'll find an abandonded camp and a couple of locked boxes where you can pick up something you already have. Travel across the map to another border area and find a couple of rogue miners that you have to kill since they are hostile to you. If you can manage to get your Mako there without getting stuck you'll find a deposit of Uranium. And over there is a pile of debris.

 

I mean, it's interesting and all. It's nice they put the time to create these areas. But in doing some of them, it seems to be just busy work. Something to do for the sake of doing it and not much else. Money? Already have more then I need. Omnigel? Already have more then I need. Achievements? Don't care. Atleast when there is a side-quest invovled, you have a sense of purpose and accomplishment. But to bust my questless ass trying to get the Mako over a range of mountains just to pick up something that's 2 levels below the weakest one all my characters have already have. Might as well be barren for what I'm taking away from there.

 

It's really more of an issue with how some dynamics of RPG's are in general. Balance, or lack of it. Early on, you want/need to explore so you build up your stats and can find stuff like money, weapons, spells, augments, whatever. But eventually you reach a point where all of it becomes irrelevant. Once you're signifigantly higher then everyone else (or at the highest you can go), once you have all the money/weapons/spells there is no point anymore. You don't need anything anymore and nothing is a challenge. All that's left is to complete the final mission and finish the game. Even Fallout3 had this problem, where you needed to start making up your own objectives just to have a reason to keep playing. This is how I view the planets of Mass Effect. It's great at first and when a side quest is invovled. But after a while, you're doing things just to do them and you start to wonder why you're bothering.

[moycon]

Regarding planets in Mass Effect. Ok, if we want to be litteral about it. Yes, you can find "something" on every one of them.

 

Honestly have you played the game? No not every planet has something on them. Some you CAN get something just by checking them out for sure, but many you cannot. Earth for example, you can't land on it, you don't get anything by checking it out, there are many many planets like this. All the ones you can land on however do have something on them. Minerals, gasses, enemies etc....

 

In regards to your comment about getting too powerful. Ummmm. Didn't you get that way playing the game? LOL You're blaming the game for you doing things to make yourself powerful? Isn't that kind of the whole reason to play an RPG? To explore, level up, and conquer? If you're bored because you are so powerful, maybe you could try and play on a harder difficulty? Both Fallout 3 and Mass Effect support this.

Edited May 3, 2009 by moycon

[Atarifever]

Yeah, it's beginning to sound like you just don't like the game, not that you have any real gripe with any actual issue. The other option is a lack of understanding of genre definitions. Maybe you think sandboxes are defined as being unlimited. That's not even true of real sandboxes. You seem to have the term "sandbox" confused with the broader term "reality." Unlike in reality, and like with every other game, your options are actually quite limited in a sandbox, be it a real one or a videogame. The only difference is that it is largely unstructured play. That's all. You're looking for a holodeck, but even a real life sandbox isn't one of those.

[Artlover]

None of the planets you can land on are completely barren. Me thinks maybe you haven't explored the game as much as you claim, which maybe explains your lack of knowledge when you discuss the game.

Honestly have you played the game? No not every planet has something on them.

I see. You just like to argue with me and flip-flop just for the sake of doing so.

 

I see what you're trying to do tho, which is mix in planets you can't land on, which we both know I wasn't talking about (tho many of them do have crap on them as well). Whatever.

 

My biggest problem is I never really use the map much. I use the radar. When you land on a planet without an objective, it drops you in the middle of no where with no direction and where even aimless driving around won't always get you near enough anything for a maker to show up. So in many cases it is easy to think a planet is barren. Open the map, there crap is, along the parameter in out of the way hard to reach areas that you likely won't ever find unless you look at the map. But that is my fault. On the same token, real men don't use maps, they drive around lost till they run out of gas and pretend like thats where they were going and ment to do that.

 

Yeah, it's beginning to sound like you just don't like the game, not that you have any real gripe with any actual issue. You seem to have the term "sandbox" confused with the broader term "reality."

Excuse me, when did I ever say I didn't like the game? Read some of the other Mass Effect threads, you'll notice I have mostly praised it and in fact do like it. It's up there with Portals and Fallout 3 of my favorite games. Tho admittedly it's mostly because of the hot lesbian sex.

 

And no, I don't have lack of understand of genre definitions. I simply reject them for being BS. Sandbox is to vague and pretty much anything that is simply non-linear ends up classified as such. Rail-shooter is another definition I reject for the opposite reason, it's to specific, so games that should be classified as such aren't. It's like when someone tells me game whatever isn't a rail-shooter and all I'm doing in it is walking from Point A to Point B shooting stuff along a linear pathway that I have to follow, I have reason to suspect the definitions are screwed up.