Irgendwer Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 ... Yes.... it looks almost similar Nice try. I will help you a little bit with your memory. Please read your own post here. Excerpt: "The pallette seems to be almost 100% XL compliant: Very good. Now the real XL feeling is available for the A800WinP4." You were talking about the 'laloo'-palette. And now guess which palette I used for the screen shot in my post (which also fits best to my real machine)... You have my compassion. Irgendwer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 ... Yes.... it looks almost similar Nice try. I will help you a little bit with your memory. Please read your own post here. Excerpt: "The pallette seems to be almost 100% XL compliant: Very good. Now the real XL feeling is available for the A800WinP4." You were talking about the 'laloo'-palette. And now guess which palette I used for the screen shot in my post (which also fits best to my real machine)... You have my compassion. Irgendwer LOL.... Warum sind es eigentlich immer Deutsche (oder Leute, die viel mit Deutschen zu tun haben), die mit ihrer scheiss Polemik meine Aussagen drehen und nur das herausfiltern, was ihnen in den Kram passt? Ich habe den G2F Screenshot genommen, weil er "klarer" ist. Selbst die Laoo Palette hätte meine Aussagen gestützt, weil du einfach nicht den Stil der Grafik beibehalten hast, was trotz der Limits des Atari, in dem Fall locker möglich ist. Ebenso ändert die Laoo Palette nichts daran, dass man bei optimal eingestellten TV Geräten oder Monitoren,die Farbe auch bei "0" Helligkeit sieht. Und, wenn die Leute dann auch noch den SVIDEO Ausgang optimieren, wirds noch deutlicher mit den "Fehlfarben". Um es nochmal zu verdeutlichen: ICH VERANSTALTE HIER KEIN WETTRENNEN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twh/f2 Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 The DLIs in the Border destroys the view of the image and doesn't enhance anything. I must agree Emkay on that one! The DLI border emphasizes the XL/XE limits. I also would remove it .. my two cents keep fighting guys... as long as we see new pictures like these grtx, \twh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tezz Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 If you inverted the picture to begin with, the player overlays would then set the contrast of the pixels and so would eliminate the banding showing on the borders from using dli's that MK has pointed out. Also, as this is only a loading pic, you can of course use bitmap mode rather than char mode and use then mid scanline raster changes. Both can be used to alter the tones and avoid the dli strips showing across the whole pic. I've knocked up a quick example in g2f below showing both inverse and mid scanline changes. If completed, the rest of the player overlays over the house and the dragon would be able to represent the different contrast tones of the spectrum screen and complete it more accurately, in fact with some more creativity it could be made more interesting perhaps with dli's on the players. I'm busy swamped working on the game project full time at the moment but I can work on it a bit later and post it if anyone is interested. Tezz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happymonster Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 I like that start Tezz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allas Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 (edited) I like DLIs, it's a mater of taste. IMHO DLI don't show Atari limitations, remember the Alternate Reality DLI pictures? I got a pictures from my NTSC TV, maybe it could help to appreciate more: Maybe, next time I'buy a tripod, I tried to do the best. Edited February 2, 2008 by Allas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 ..., remember the Alternate Reality DLI pictures? Yes... And I always wondered, how any one can destroy those graphics that much Particular this fullscreen DLIs which crossed the overall graphics... Inside = Outside While here.... the game takes a benefit by the DLIs. Really... DLIs should not be a matter of taste. They should be a matter of image enhancer..... not an image destroyer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tezz Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 (edited) I like that start Tezz. Thanks, I thought it might serve as an example when i was reading through this thread... ok well I could do with a break so a bit of g2f work is always welcome! here's a litle more work on that picture. I think it shows now as a rough example as to what it would look like doing it in this way. Edited February 2, 2008 by Tezz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happymonster Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 Nice! emkay: I like the style of the AR 'scene' pictures. Not realistic, but nice and colourful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analmux Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 When interpreting emkay's statement to fully extend, weall end up in making conversions of pictures from Mondrian. W.T.F. ...Hold on!!! What's wrong with Piet Mondriaan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irgendwer Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 (edited) I like that start Tezz. Thanks, I thought it might serve as an example when i was reading through this thread... ok well I could do with a break so a bit of g2f work is always welcome! here's a litle more work on that picture. I think it shows now as a rough example as to what it would look like doing it in this way. Thank you Tezz for the demonstration. I like to see a 100% completed image, as it is relative easy to reach 80%. Like emkay said: I like also to see a better conversion than mine. BTW: The contrast of the lines in the colored parts is relative poor when working this way... (I have forsaken to work with this lightness combination of 709/710 - you run out to fast on available PMGs while you often have to increase the PMG resolution to reach a convincing contrast.) And if you have to introduce artefacts, these are more apparently than working the inverted color model (which my version did, since humans look by lightness & not by hue (this is why the standard jpeg encoding can half the colour resolution without visible tradeoffs - for the untrained eye ). CU Irgendwer Edited February 2, 2008 by Irgendwer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tezz Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 Thank you Tezz for the demonstration.You're welcome. I thought I'd add to the conversation to mention this other possible method. I like to see a 100% completed image, as it is relative easy to reach 80%.Ok sure, I was really just posting as an example but if you'd like to see the image completed I'll do a little on it when I get some more time. Really now I am working on a big project. BTW: The contrast of the lines in the colored parts is relative poor when working this way...(I have forsaken to work with this lightness combination of 709/710 - you run out to fast on available PMGs while you often have to increase the PMG resolution to reach a convincing contrast.) And if you have to introduce artefacts, these are more apparently than working the inverted color model (which my version did, since humans look by contrast & not by colour (this is why the standard jpeg encoding can half the colour resolution without visible tradeoffs - for the untrained eye ). Yes there are cetainly limits with this method too but I think perhaps it's more flexable in some situations, that depends on the subject and your judgement as to which method to choose. In the case of this picture for instance there are some contrast differences on the same scanline. It's really like you say though, the downside of this method is if there is a lot of detail you can easily run out of p/ms. You can use a combination of inverse slices in the pictures in tricky areas. Using mid scanline changes can assist further also as mentioned although they are not flexable at all and really are most usefull for large colour area changes where the edges can be masked by the p/m's. That's nicely demonstrated by Tebe in his example pictures for anyone who is interested in it. I've purposely used big contrast changes in this example to show the difference of the other method. The pm overlays control the contrast making the areas independent, for example the framed border could be made much brighter than the inner picture if desired. I know you guys already know this! but I was adding to this conversation for anyone reading the subject in relation to the limitations so that everything is concidered Regards, Tezz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tezz Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 (edited) ok well, I've completed the picture now which you can see below, although I say it's complete but there is a bug in the midscanline change which is making up the back part of the dragon which I'm looking into.. cheers, Tezz. Edited February 3, 2008 by Tezz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happymonster Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 Lovely! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irgendwer Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 (edited) ok well, I've completed the picture now which you can see below, although I say it's complete but there is a bug in the midscanline change which is making up the back part of the dragon which I'm looking into.. cheers, Tezz. Thank you. Not bad. It illustrates what I've said before. I think the reason that the roof is gray is to hide artefacts? What is with the filled-up title letters ("SHAD")? You made a good job, thanks to the midline changes (I have my problems with them too, so regular I try to avoid them). If you like we could make a poll to have some feedback? (I this case I would do one slight enhancement to my conversion.) CU Irgendwer Edited February 3, 2008 by Irgendwer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 ok well, I've completed the picture now which you can see below, although I say it's complete but there is a bug in the midscanline change which is making up the back part of the dragon which I'm looking into.. cheers, Tezz. That's very good already. And it benefits from the better palette of the A8. But... Is there any chance of yellow lights (colour $FF) ? It would be perfect then :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tezz Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 Thank you. Not bad.It illustrates what I've said before. I think the reason that the roof is gray is to hide artefacts? Hi, well actually no it's not hiding any artifacts, I just kept the roof grey because I thought it looked nice while I was working on it so I set some dli shading to add to it's depth. Actually the roof can be coloured in too as 3 players are free there, the frame border is using just pm0 and missile0. What is with the filled-up title letters ("SHAD")?well, the available p/m's on that side of the logo are double/quad size and so I cannot take this out evenly to make the detailing. I could probably improve this with some more work and thinking though. The filling in is emphised more in the picture because I'm using the default g2f pallette. Depending on your output and/or settings, the lowest shade is often much less visible like in the pallette you used on your picture. You made a good job, thanks to the midline changes (I have my problems with them too, so regular I try to avoid them).If you like we could make a poll to have some feedback? (I this case I would do one slight enhancement to my conversion.)Thanks, I think it makes a good comparision between the two available approaches. I like your picture also, it's stronger in some areas. A mixture of both these methods is available to use within the same picture. I initially thought that I'd need to make several midline changes but only one was needed in the end for the dragon over the house. I think now looking at my picture with fresh eyes, I will lighten some of the areas by one level. Basically with this method, any of the different coloured areas can have their own lightness setting, I just purposely chose what is there now whilst it was being created. I'll prob tweak it a little to add some more depth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tezz Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 ok well, I've completed the picture now which you can see below, although I say it's complete but there is a bug in the midscanline change which is making up the back part of the dragon which I'm looking into.. cheers, Tezz. That's very good already. And it benefits from the better palette of the A8. But... Is there any chance of yellow lights (colour $FF) ? It would be perfect then :-) Hi Emkay, thanks. I don't think that I can add the yellow lights, I was thinking about a way to achive it but all the pm's are used in that area so I only had the white $0E to set via a dli against the non-masked p/m "holes". I'll keep thinking about it, maybe there will be a solution re-jigging things around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmlloyd Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Not to detract from the very important title screen argument but - what video mode is used to actually implement the game itself? Is it ANTIC F or 2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tebe Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 ANTIC 2 (char mode) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxl Posted May 29, 2008 Share Posted May 29, 2008 there is new version of KL (v1.2) http://atari.pl/knightlore.obx 1. faster 2. cauldron wants the items in a specific order - like on zx spectrum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvas Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 there is new version of KL (v1.2)http://atari.pl/knightlore.obx 1. faster 2. cauldron wants the items in a specific order - like on zx spectrum Great! Thanks for you efforts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 there is new version of KL (v1.2)http://atari.pl/knightlore.obx 1. faster 2. cauldron wants the items in a specific order - like on zx spectrum Very nice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEtalGuy66 Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 there is new version of KL (v1.2)http://atari.pl/knightlore.obx 1. faster 2. cauldron wants the items in a specific order - like on zx spectrum Very nice! An awesome piece of work... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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