Brainstorming: 2600 Tiled Game Ideas

[LS_Dracon]

Hard thing to draw...

vdub_bobby, give a look in this demo posted by Michael :

 

http://www.atariage.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=101227

 

It's uses 2 graphic data for compose a sprite with 4 possible colors.

 

Anyway here's my try:

Edited February 7, 2008 by LS_Dracon

[vdub_bobby]

If you don't mind sprawling the data over a number of banks, one could probably do a decent tile engine without expansion RAM. Some estimates of possibilities:

 

-1- Six types of 21-line tiles, spread out over 3 banks, using middle 32 PF pixels along with one 1lk-resolution colored sprite and no gaps between rows.

 

-2- Seven types of 15-line tiles, spread out over 3 banks, likewise

 

-3- Eight types of 24-line tiles, spread out over 6 banks, likewise.

 

-4- Above combinations of tile number and height could probably fill the whole screen width if there was one blank line between rows.

 

-5- One could reduce the number of banks by increasing the size of tables within each bank (#1-#4 would require two 256 byte tables per bank; #5 could offer eight types of 24-line tiles with three banks of four pages each, or e.g. nine types of tiles 18-line tiles using three banks of four pages each. Those possibilities might require two blank lines between rows.

Just using indirect indexed addressing to load tile-pair data, right? It might work...4x8=32 cycles for the PF, 7 or 8 cycles for PF color, say 21 cycles for the sprite...we're up to 32+8+21 = 61 cycles. Plenty of time left over for looping.

 

The main problem is RAM, still - I'd need the number of rows x 4 pointers, so say 8 rows = 32 pointers = 64 bytes. But I don't think I can change all those pointers in a single frame, so to prevent glitches I'll need to buffer them, which will probably require another 32 bytes. Hm. Actually, that's not too bad; maybe it would work.

 

For Bob's tile engine there are some limitations: you have to use alternating lines of colors: red, green and blue.

Are the colors fixed? In BD Andrew and I use different colors to match the colors of the original level. I described that in more detail in the BD development blog.

The colors are fixed but could be changed very easily, at least while I'm using the Supercharger. And not too difficult if I switch to something else.

Well for CV stuff I use ICVGM303. I don't know if there's something similar for the VCS so that the colors/pixel ratio is correct. I took a shot at it anyway.

For Bob's tile engine there are some limitations: you have to use alternating lines of colors: red, green and blue. You can't use any other colors, nor can you have two lines of the same color adjacent to each other.

 

I worked on some tiles for Bob awhile back - but I don't recall what I came up with now.

 

Ah, I didn't know that. Thanks

Thanks for the tree, though. Even though it won't work as-is it helps to have a different perspective.

[vdub_bobby]

I like that tree; seems to work pretty well. Or, at least, better than my tree.

 

Tiledemo20080207.bin

[happymonster]

You have colour, but little contrast or brightness. NotBD has that which makes the gfx work better.

 

You could even use only two alternating colours for 4 colours overall and more detailed sprites/tiles.

[LS_Dracon]

Nice, Bob.

Small update, for not show too much the black background.

[vdub_bobby]

Any other game-play or game ideas?

 

So far the best IMO are:

Utopia

a golf game

Empire (or some other turn-based strategy game)

Ravenskull

 

Any others?

 

It could be something fast-moving, but there's basically only one sprite to go around, so enemies would have to be tiles (maybe*) and would therefore have movement and visual restrictions. I kind of like the idea of a side-scrolling platformer, but I can't think of any existing platformers that could be ported to this engine: 10x8 screen, limited or no sprites besides the player.

 

Relatedly:

One of the things that's really missing on the Atari 2600 is a game -- I don't know the generic name for these -- where you have a set of three or four characters from which to choose, each of whom has their own distinctive ability. Think Lost Vikings, Legacy of the Wizard, Little Samson, and other games that don't start with L. (Each of those games has its own multi-character paradigm, too -- all at once vs. switching at a home base vs. switching on the fly.)

 

Obviously none of those particular games could be adapted, and they're all closer to arcade games than puzzle games. But I'd really like to see a game with that "multiple tools that interact in complex ways to solve a problem" feel, and there must be an early example of something like that out there. Given what your engine can do, I'm imagining something with an expansive playfield, comparatively simple building blocks...hmmm...

This sounds interesting, but I don't quite understand what you're describing.

 

*To elaborate on the 2nd-sprite system in place - right now the engine supports one extra sprite per row of the entire map, and only one can appear on screen at a time. And the 2nd sprites have tile-based movement. You can see this in the original binary I posted, there is 1 sprite per row and only one appears on screen at a time.

But this could be modified in a lot of ways, but the hard limit is 1 onscreen at a time (w/o flicker).

Edited February 7, 2008 by vdub_bobby

[+Random Terrain]

Any other game-play or game ideas?

A simplified version of Civilization with randomly created terrain to explore?

[Pixelboy]

I haven't tried the demo because I don't currently have a proper Atari 2600 emulator installed on my PC, but looking at those screens, I'm tempted to propose some kind of simplified Blaster Master look-alike.

 

Allow me to elaborate: Since we're limited to one sprite on the screen, the sprite in question should be the player's vehicle, and the danger should be posed entirely by the terrain. Certain tiles will damage the player if touched, so the player needs to change the color of those tiles in order to progress. This is done by touching certain "switch icon" tiles with the vehicle. Some tiles can also be moved mechanically by activating other types of switches, and "enemy" tiles move around continuously following pre-set patterns, like the critters in Boulder Dash (the player needs to evade those enemy tiles to avoid damage, obviously). Some other tiles could collapse under the vehicle's weight.

 

The goal of the game would be to collect pieces of your spaceship scattered across the levels, and the levels themselves would be structured as puzzles to figure out.

 

The vehicle itself can be upgraded in different ways. The vehicle can't normally jump, but an upgrade could allow it to jump up one tile, or perhaps stick to walls and ceilings. Color-altering upgrades can change the color of the vehicle and make it immune to tiles which would normally damage it, but by changing color this way, other tiles become hazardous to touch. Acquiring these vehicle upgrades can be a puzzle in itself, yet such upgrades must be acquired to reach spaceship parts elsewhere in the current level.

 

Obviously, this game idea only works to its full potential if the contents of the 42x48 map can be modified in RAM at runtime. Even with only 6 or 7 tiles, some devious puzzles could be devised... I haven't really given this game idea much thought, so others may come up with new ideas I haven't really thought of myself.

 

Unless of course it's too ambitious to begin with...?

[MayDay]

If Zelda is out, I would second Civilization.

[vdub_bobby]

I haven't tried the demo because I don't currently have a proper Atari 2600 emulator installed on my PC, but looking at those screens, I'm tempted to propose some kind of simplified Blaster Master look-alike.

 

Allow me to elaborate: Since we're limited to one sprite on the screen, the sprite in question should be the player's vehicle, and the danger should be posed entirely by the terrain.

I wasn't entirely clear - you can have two sprites onscreen, but only one can be freely positioned. The other one, the 2nd sprite, has all the restrictions (or similar ones) that I mentioned above.

 

Certain tiles will damage the player if touched, so the player needs to change the color of those tiles in order to progress. This is done by touching certain "switch icon" tiles with the vehicle. Some tiles can also be moved mechanically by activating other types of switches, and "enemy" tiles move around continuously following pre-set patterns, like the critters in Boulder Dash (the player needs to evade those enemy tiles to avoid damage, obviously). Some other tiles could collapse under the vehicle's weight.

 

The goal of the game would be to collect pieces of your spaceship scattered across the levels, and the levels themselves would be structured as puzzles to figure out.

 

The vehicle itself can be upgraded in different ways. The vehicle can't normally jump, but an upgrade could allow it to jump up one tile, or perhaps stick to walls and ceilings. Color-altering upgrades can change the color of the vehicle and make it immune to tiles which would normally damage it, but by changing color this way, other tiles become hazardous to touch. Acquiring these vehicle upgrades can be a puzzle in itself, yet such upgrades must be acquired to reach spaceship parts elsewhere in the current level.

 

Obviously, this game idea only works to its full potential if the contents of the 42x48 map can be modified in RAM at runtime. Even with only 6 or 7 tiles, some devious puzzles could be devised... I haven't really given this game idea much thought, so others may come up with new ideas I haven't really thought of myself.

 

Unless of course it's too ambitious to begin with...?

That sounds pretty cool. As long as I stick with the Supercharger the map is all RAM and can be modified. Scanning and changing the map will slow everything down, but there's some room to give there, and I imagined that almost every idea would require that.

[happymonster]

Chips Challenge

A tactical laser squad kind of game

Simplified Civilisation / Colonisation game

Archon

Risk / Dice Wars style game

a Simple RPG

[Pixelboy]

I wasn't entirely clear - you can have two sprites onscreen, but only one can be freely positioned. The other one, the 2nd sprite, has all the restrictions (or similar ones) that I mentioned above.

Okay then, the restrictions on the second sprite may be worked into the game's design somehow.

 

That sounds pretty cool. As long as I stick with the Supercharger the map is all RAM and can be modified. Scanning and changing the map will slow everything down, but there's some room to give there, and I imagined that almost every idea would require that.

Perhaps changing the color of the vehicle would be preferable to changing the color of the tiles, although if it's not too much trouble, I think both options should be included in the game's design, for added variety.

 

Some other ideas:

 

- Have the vehicle take two hits at most before exploding, like Arthur in Ghosts'n Goblins. Your vehicle would get repaired each time you pick up a spaceship part, so sometimes solving a level involves getting hit once in an unavoidable way, then picking up a spaceship part before continuing further.

 

- Have fixed teleporters in some spots. Such teleporters can be used to tackle a level puzzle from two different angles.

 

- Include a vehicle upgrade that allows the player to push (or pull) certain blocks. Such blocks fall down when they are pushed off the edge of a platform.

 

- The effect of pushing the joystick button would depend on what upgrade is currently installed on the vehicle. For example, if you pick up a "weapon" icon, the fire button is used to shoot projectiles (useful to remove enemies that block your path), but then you lose the ability to jump, so picking up that weapon upgrade should be done later in the level's progression.

 

With enough time invested in its design, this game could turn out really good...