Atari v Commodore

[atarian63]

Please.. the Vic was an utter failure in the US. The main market at the time.

Yeps a real failure on the main market. With 18 million sold units... And with C128 selling another 4 million. May I mention that the entire A8 line sold just about 4 million too?

Vic 20 a mostly non starter, Not C64, what can I say, the public often is not too bright.

Sorry I don't know commonsore terminology. To me a vic means vic20.

 

Your original statement was that the VIC was an utter market failure in the US. Sorry, but you got that wrong. VIC20 was the first computer to ever sell 1 million units. It was absolutely not a technical breakthrough, but more people could afford it than Ataris. If I remember right from the C= Book "on the Edge" VIC20 was originally a few weeks own hobby project of Bob Yannes ( SID designer). He just wanted to build a computer around the already existing but unused VIC-I gfx chip for fun. But when he showed it to one of his bosses, the machine got eventually made it to be seen by Jack Tramiel who instantly ordered it to be manufactured

Sorry, you are wrong, it never got market penetration and most who bought it found they could not do anything much with it and there was little to no software and what little there was was very hard to find as nobody carried it. With Atari you could go lots of places like Sears,Service Merchandise, Burdines,Lazarus and most major retailers. Also I still hate SID sounds, really grates on my nerves.

 

Sorry, you are wrong. The first computer to ever sell 1 million units had market penetration, and is/was a market success.

Total flop and wholly unsupported at the consumer level unlike Atari. I know a few people back in the day that bought one as it was cheap. They however did nothing with it and could not find software for it. Yeah.. that a real success

 

VIC20 was the first computer to ever sell 1 million units. It was a huge market success.

Say it all you like. Still wrong. Here in the US. (main computer market) it was a flop. Success generally means that people dev for it and it's available easily to the public. It was not. Kind like the Virtual Boy, sold a bunch, no software, flop. Actually I think Virtual boy did better

Most of those machine sold here were never used. It was a novelty based on price.It was the cheapest machine around and people bought it. People wanted to be part of the emerging "computer age". Not understanding anything about machines they chose the cheapest one.

Besides the machine sucked. Give me an Atari 400/800 anyday.Heck at that time a 2600 was a much better choice. Consumers at the time were buying machine for games mostly. Commodore had no great license games and really nothing to offer even if you could find software for it.

It's only thing was that it was cheap. Made a great doorstop,closet liner, landfill filler, take your pick.

We had neighbors who had one setup on the coffee table. They showed it off. When asked what it did they turned it on and we all looked at it. I asked what they could do with it and the answer was that they had no idea. They never did.

 

You are wrong. The original claim was that it was a market huge market success. the first computer ever selling over 1 million unit is a huge market success. Market success is to be measured in sales numbers.

Keep trying. Still wrong. Again market success or failure is obvious when nearly nobody writes software for your system. As in programmers are trying to make money. As is obvious VIC20 failed.Not mainstream. Atari,Apple, Heck Tandy and TI(not a bad system) had more available and Atari and Apple had 1st tier titles as well. Vic failed. I can't even believe we are having this conversation about such a joke of a system. Were you even alive at the time?

 

Stop redefining the meaning of market success. VIC20 was a HUGE market success. whatever you say. Its not like I dont agree with most of you're seeing. But its all offtopic, changing subject. One thing you can never take away from the VIC20: first ever computer to ever sell 1 million units. and that means a huge market success.

 

edit: interesting note from spiceware. VIC20 sold 2.5 millon. more than half of ALL a8 models put together.

It's a fact. You just don't like hearing it. They sold a million pos doorstops with no 1st tier software and no availability of software. You'll just have to deal with it. Maybe Lemon64 would fit your few. I imagine there are many there with the same lame excuse. I lived during that period. Did you?

 

wow man, face it: already even 2 of the atari guys have corrected you, one of them even said it had software, pheripherals, etc etc etc. VIC20 was a huge market success. you just cant face the reality.

You still don't seem to get it, face reality son, you keep avoiding the obvious, peripherals that noboday could find or use and home grow software are far from success. Floppity flop flop/ Face it, You also avoided my question. Were you even alive back then? How would you know how things were without actually being there? Just a foolish fanboy. Why any love for that flop box is beyond me.

 

VIC20 had both Commodore and third party peripherals, software was even made by atari for it, game carts alone counts 300. sold ALONE more than half of ALL a8 models together.

 

VIC20 was a huge market succes, first computer to ever sell a million, its sales numbers dwarfes any 8bit atari computer model's.

 

we can deeper and deeper in the numbers, and thing is it goes like this: as we go on you have to step back always from more and more of your claims. it had pheripherals, it had games, it had userbase. it had everything. You cant accept the bare facts.

 

You also avoided my question. Were you even alive back then? How would you know how things were without actually being there? Just a foolish fanboy. Why any love for that flop box is beyond me.

 

wow how stupid can this get. were you alive in the 1st world war? how do you know what happened then? stop trolling sir. play it fair. accept the facts.

The stupidity is on your part son. I guess your answer(finally) to being around at the time is no. So you don't have the same reference of the market the people who were do. You just have some wiki crap and a warped pro commodore bias.

The trolling is on your part as I've been here awhile and not seen you. Judging from what I am seeing so far you will probably be gone to troll elsewhere with your incorrect info soon.

 

Floppity flop flop, Vic failed. Nobody back in the day took it seriously here in the states especially with only 5k ram and 1 joystick port. It was Apple or Atari. Those were the main systems.

Your insistence is funny though. :)

Edited April 15, 2009 by atarian63

[Barnacle boy]

Your opinion and comments seem to show that you were not there at the time either.

Jesus christ dude, you sound like a freaked out Vietnam vet.

 

Also your examples are of titles released long after the death of the system. Doesn't help your case.

Nebulus - 1988, Blinky's Scary School - 1990, Green Beret - 1986, Rampage - 1987.

 

So which of those are 'long after the death of the system'? Nebulus? Blinky's Scary School? I guess the atari was quite dead in 1990, but the c64 was still battling on. Or were some of those other titles not actually released at the time? Also, when you say "doesn't help your case", what exactly is my 'case'? I suggest you try to view my comment in the context of the quote I was replying to.

 

Also, have you ever considered replying to people without quoting an entire quote tree? More advice from a 'noob' for you.

[atarian63]

Your opinion and comments seem to show that you were not there at the time either.

Jesus christ dude, you sound like a freaked out Vietnam vet.

 

Also your examples are of titles released long after the death of the system. Doesn't help your case.

Nebulus - 1988, Blinky's Scary School - 1990, Green Beret - 1986, Rampage - 1987.

 

So which of those are 'long after the death of the system'? Nebulus? Blinky's Scary School? I guess the atari was quite dead in 1990, but the c64 was still battling on. Or were some of those other titles not actually released at the time? Also, when you say "doesn't help your case", what exactly is my 'case'? I suggest you try to view my comment in the context of the quote I was replying to.

 

Also, have you ever considered replying to people without quoting an entire quote tree? More advice from a 'noob' for you.

"geez Dude" you sound like a 60's hippie leftover or a young kid,or a noob. :roll: Have something against Vietnam Vets?

 

The games you list make my point. The system died late 83 with old stores being sold through 85. Buyers at the time 81-83 did not have access to 86-90 period games. Would not have been part of the buying decision. Suggest you find title as in arcade title that matter. Circa 79-82 that have some bearing on the conversation. You appear lost in your arguement.

 

With only 5k of ram in the machine and 1 joystick port it did not lend itself to very much.

[+SpiceWare]

Back in the day I was heavily invested in my particular platform, but today I'm able to look at them objectively. Some platforms genuinely sucked, but I wouldn't put Atari or Commodore in that category.

I wasn't that invested into it - I even added ATASCII support to my MusicTerm software so I could call one of my friend's BBS. In Corpus Christi there weren't that many BBSes, so everybody called them all regardless of platform and we often had large get togethers at the beach, for Rocky Horror Picture Show, Skating, etc. When I moved to Houston I called a couple Atari BBSes and they freaked out when I posted the number to my BBS.

 

And the important thing was you got an early start with computers as did I. It's hard to overestimate the impact that had on my life.

That it did

[Allas]

Your opinion and comments seem to show that you were not there at the time either.

Jesus christ dude, you sound like a freaked out Vietnam vet.

 

Also your examples are of titles released long after the death of the system. Doesn't help your case.

Nebulus - 1988, Blinky's Scary School - 1990, Green Beret - 1986, Rampage - 1987.

 

So which of those are 'long after the death of the system'? Nebulus? Blinky's Scary School? I guess the atari was quite dead in 1990, but the c64 was still battling on. Or were some of those other titles not actually released at the time? Also, when you say "doesn't help your case", what exactly is my 'case'? I suggest you try to view my comment in the context of the quote I was replying to.

 

Also, have you ever considered replying to people without quoting an entire quote tree? More advice from a 'noob' for you.

 

 

The system really died after 1985. Great companies abandoned Atari due to problems that were bad managed for Atari. But appear on the market new little companies, without any experience on programming Atari design. So most of the titles are so crap with poor work on the graphics. Besides, it was a rigor to design the games with 48K as a standard. That's why Blinky's Scary have a simple screen with low res, trying to use only 4K on screen, even not using the 5th color, not use any DLI to color the screen, without music background. In other words terrible partings. Believe or not, a 64K version of Atari could be exactly as the level of C64 screens.

 

About Nebulus, you need to post the real screen, because on emulator you can't capture the artifact colors (Yes this is a artifact Atari game). Have some nice colors, but still the C64 screen looks more colorful. Instead the bonus level is showing very colorful on Atari version. This game wasn't released officially on Atari 8bit line (ONLY FOR 7800), really a pity.

 

Green Beret, what the hell with the Atari version, really that was the version you can do with Atari Basic compiled, really the programmers didn't enhance anything. Crap conversion. The C64 look very fine on sprites design (I believe so far what Atari version could do), but the game was bad programmed, is not playable, at least comparing to the playability of arcade game.

 

Better, do a choice of games before 1985. Surely you found well programmed games on C64.

Edited April 15, 2009 by Allas

[Barnacle boy]

The games you list make my point. The system died late 83 with old stores being sold through 85. Buyers at the time 81-83 did not have access to 86-90 period games. Would not have been part of the buying decision. Suggest you find title as in arcade title that matter. Circa 79-82 that have some bearing on the conversation. You appear lost in your arguement.

ahahah! Oh my god, you're talking about the VIC20 aren't you. I guess you confused me with someone else you're arguing with. You really don't read what you're replying to, do you? Or maybe your comprehension skills are weak.

 

Here's a little heads up for you: My post with that list of games had NOTHING to do with the VIC20 argument. Here, I'll repeat my post, which was a respons to something The Doctor said. Let's see if you can follow it this time around:

 

Whenever Atari coders make something good or better than what was available on the c=64 the statement is ... you can't compare what people code today vs what they coded then.... I submit you can since it is still the same hardware. It is simply being used more to it's potential. If a person can not handle that then it is their character flaw or failing.

So I suppose if I show comparisons between games like Nebulus or Blinky's Scary School or Green Beret or Rampage etc etc, I won't hear a peep out of you. You won't pipe up trying explain the context in which these games were made (particularly as these are games made in the same period, and under commercial constraints on both sides). Yep, you'd be as quiet as a mouse, I'm sure.

 

Note: Nothing to do with VIC20! You'd think my most recent post, in which I replied to your bizarre comment and mentioned only the Atari and the c64 would have tipped you off... and yet, apparently not!

 

Do try to keep up.

[Barnacle boy]

The system really died after 1985. Great companies abandoned Atari due to problems that were bad managed for Atari. But appear on the market new little companies, without any experience on programming Atari design. So most of the titles are so crap and basic on the graphics. Besides, it was a rigor to design the games with 48K as a standard. That's why Blinky's Scary have a simple screen with low res, trying to use only 4K on screen, even not using the 5th color, not use any DLI to color the screen, without music background. In other words terrible partings. Believe or not, a 64K version of Atari could be exactly as the level of C64 screens.

Well see, that's my point Allas, which I think you already realise -- the point being that if you get into comparing games across different platforms while ignoring the circumstances under which a game was produced, you're not getting the full picture.

 

It was a response to this comment by The Doctor: "Whenever Atari coders make something good or better than what was available on the c=64 the statement is ... you can't compare what people code today vs what they coded then.... I submit you can since it is still the same hardware. It is simply being used more to it's potential. If a person can not handle that then it is their character flaw or failing."

 

 

Green Beret ... The C64 look very fine on sprites design ... but the game was bad programmed, is not playable, at least comparing to the playability of arcade game.

errr... sorry, I have to call bullshit on that 'not playable' comment. It's certainly challenging... perhaps this makes it 'not playable' for some unskilled players?

Edited April 15, 2009 by Barnacle boy

[+SpiceWare]

About Nebulus, you need to post the real screen, because on emulator you can't capture the artifact colors (Yes this is a artifact Atari game). Have some nice colors, but still the C64 screen looks more colorful. Instead the bonus level is showing very colorful on Atari version. This game wasn't released officially on Atari 8bit line (ONLY FOR 7800), really a pity.

Cybergoth has a blog entry on Nebulus and there's a few links in the follow up discussion to pictures of the artifact version:

 

http://www.atari7800.org/screenshots/Tower_Topplerscreen.htm

 

http://vormedia.com/?p=235

[FastRobPlus]

ahahah! Oh my god, you're talking about the VIC20 aren't you. I guess you confused me with someone else you're arguing with. You really don't read what you're replying to, do you? Or maybe your comprehension skills are weak.

 

I'm going to have to stop you there. Why is ANYONE talking about the VIC-20? Not even William Shatner wants to hear about it anymore.

 

Seriously, stop. This discussion was stupid when it was comparing Atari to Commodore 64. It was never about other Commodores. Next thing you know somebody is going to bring the Commodore LED watch fanboys in here and we'll have to listen to them too!

[Barnacle boy]

Hmm... I trust you're aware I haven't been discussing the vic20? Atari vs c64 is where the fun is at!

Edited April 15, 2009 by Barnacle boy

[+wood_jl]

Please.. the Vic was an utter failure in the US. The main market at the time.

Yeps a real failure on the main market. With 18 million sold units... And with C128 selling another 4 million. May I mention that the entire A8 line sold just about 4 million too?

Vic 20 a mostly non starter, Not C64, what can I say, the public often is not too bright.

Sorry I don't know commonsore terminology. To me a vic means vic20.

 

Your original statement was that the VIC was an utter market failure in the US. Sorry, but you got that wrong. VIC20 was the first computer to ever sell 1 million units. It was absolutely not a technical breakthrough, but more people could afford it than Ataris. If I remember right from the C= Book "on the Edge" VIC20 was originally a few weeks own hobby project of Bob Yannes ( SID designer). He just wanted to build a computer around the already existing but unused VIC-I gfx chip for fun. But when he showed it to one of his bosses, the machine got eventually made it to be seen by Jack Tramiel who instantly ordered it to be manufactured

Sorry, you are wrong, it never got market penetration and most who bought it found they could not do anything much with it and there was little to no software and what little there was was very hard to find as nobody carried it. With Atari you could go lots of places like Sears,Service Merchandise, Burdines,Lazarus and most major retailers. Also I still hate SID sounds, really grates on my nerves.

 

Sorry, you are wrong. The first computer to ever sell 1 million units had market penetration, and is/was a market success.

Total flop and wholly unsupported at the consumer level unlike Atari. I know a few people back in the day that bought one as it was cheap. They however did nothing with it and could not find software for it. Yeah.. that a real success

 

VIC20 was the first computer to ever sell 1 million units. It was a huge market success.

Say it all you like. Still wrong. Here in the US. (main computer market) it was a flop. Success generally means that people dev for it and it's available easily to the public. It was not. Kind like the Virtual Boy, sold a bunch, no software, flop. Actually I think Virtual boy did better

Most of those machine sold here were never used. It was a novelty based on price.It was the cheapest machine around and people bought it. People wanted to be part of the emerging "computer age". Not understanding anything about machines they chose the cheapest one.

Besides the machine sucked. Give me an Atari 400/800 anyday.Heck at that time a 2600 was a much better choice. Consumers at the time were buying machine for games mostly. Commodore had no great license games and really nothing to offer even if you could find software for it.

It's only thing was that it was cheap. Made a great doorstop,closet liner, landfill filler, take your pick.

We had neighbors who had one setup on the coffee table. They showed it off. When asked what it did they turned it on and we all looked at it. I asked what they could do with it and the answer was that they had no idea. They never did.

 

You are wrong. The original claim was that it was a market huge market success. the first computer ever selling over 1 million unit is a huge market success. Market success is to be measured in sales numbers.

Keep trying. Still wrong. Again market success or failure is obvious when nearly nobody writes software for your system. As in programmers are trying to make money. As is obvious VIC20 failed.Not mainstream. Atari,Apple, Heck Tandy and TI(not a bad system) had more available and Atari and Apple had 1st tier titles as well. Vic failed. I can't even believe we are having this conversation about such a joke of a system. Were you even alive at the time?

 

Stop redefining the meaning of market success. VIC20 was a HUGE market success. whatever you say. Its not like I dont agree with most of you're seeing. But its all offtopic, changing subject. One thing you can never take away from the VIC20: first ever computer to ever sell 1 million units. and that means a huge market success.

 

edit: interesting note from spiceware. VIC20 sold 2.5 millon. more than half of ALL a8 models put together.

It's a fact. You just don't like hearing it. They sold a million pos doorstops with no 1st tier software and no availability of software. You'll just have to deal with it. Maybe Lemon64 would fit your few. I imagine there are many there with the same lame excuse. I lived during that period. Did you?

 

wow man, face it: already even 2 of the atari guys have corrected you, one of them even said it had software, pheripherals, etc etc etc. VIC20 was a huge market success. you just cant face the reality.

You still don't seem to get it, face reality son, you keep avoiding the obvious, peripherals that noboday could find or use and home grow software are far from success. Floppity flop flop/ Face it, You also avoided my question. Were you even alive back then? How would you know how things were without actually being there? Just a foolish fanboy. Why any love for that flop box is beyond me.

 

VIC20 had both Commodore and third party peripherals, software was even made by atari for it, game carts alone counts 300. sold ALONE more than half of ALL a8 models together.

 

VIC20 was a huge market succes, first computer to ever sell a million, its sales numbers dwarfes any 8bit atari computer model's.

 

we can deeper and deeper in the numbers, and thing is it goes like this: as we go on you have to step back always from more and more of your claims. it had pheripherals, it had games, it had userbase. it had everything. You cant accept the bare facts.

 

You also avoided my question. Were you even alive back then? How would you know how things were without actually being there? Just a foolish fanboy. Why any love for that flop box is beyond me.

 

wow how stupid can this get. were you alive in the 1st world war? how do you know what happened then? stop trolling sir. play it fair. accept the facts.

The stupidity is on your part son. I guess your answer(finally) to being around at the time is no. So you don't have the same reference of the market the people who were do. You just have some wiki crap and a warped pro commodore bias.

The trolling is on your part as I've been here awhile and not seen you. Judging from what I am seeing so far you will probably be gone to troll elsewhere with your incorrect info soon.

 

Floppity flop flop, Vic failed. Nobody back in the day took it seriously here in the states especially with only 5k ram and 1 joystick port. It was Apple or Atari. Those were the main systems.

Your insistence is funny though. :)

 

 

Ha ha! If this re-quoting continues, soon it'll be narrowed down enough to read on a Vic 20's 22-column screen!

[JamesD]

There is some serious BS being flung in this thread.

[frenchman]

C64 fanboys are so desperate they have to bring Vic20, the second most horroble computer on the planet, into the comparison? Losers.

[Fröhn]

About Nebulus, you need to post the real screen, because on emulator you can't capture the artifact colors (Yes this is a artifact Atari game).

On PAL A8's there artifacting does not work. I tried it with one of my XL's and a "Panther" tape original: No artifacting, clearly visible black & white pixel patterns (Panther uses artifacting for the score & lives display area).

[Heaven/TQA]

I didn't know that the Vic 20 was THAT bad.

 

Just a reminder of what could Atari could have done several years before

 

 

 

Give 128k to a Vic20 , and i'm sure you can do something close to your space harrier.

 

And in 1979 , 2 year before the vic20 , you couldn't even imagine be able to afford 128k for ram... first Atari 800 had 16k .

 

 

... at a resolution of 40x25 ... surely.

 

You Commie guys put TOO much miracles into the RAM expansion.

 

This one comes with a 12K EXE. So from it's size it would run on the VIC 20.

 

 

the Vic20 had only 3.5k .

 

Seems Atari can do only kind of plasma effect. All demo i see have poor colors and plasma. Strange for a machine with 128 or 256 colors...

 

Anyway, i don't say that the VIC20 is better than an Atari 800. I just say it is an honorable machine and surely not the worst computer of 80's as somebody said previously.

 

hahaha... I think the most plasma fx I have seen on c64 demos... even in 2009...

 

The first thing Graham showed me last year on A8 was a similar fx while he explained me how chunky modes go with c64...

[+wood_jl]

Hey Commodore users (since there's so many of you in this thread).

 

 

Anybody have any experience with this:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/C64TPC-Connect-Commodo...1QQcmdZViewItem

 

 

It appears to be a reasonable facsimile of Atari's SIO2PC.

It is for sale in Turkey, which makes me a bit nervous.

It's "C64TPC" and it seems reasonably priced.

It claims to be incompatible with Fast-load cartridges.

It also claims to be 37% faster than 1541 drive.

It sucks that it requires a power supply.

It sucks even worse that one's not included.

It sucks that it's RS232 and not USB.

It claims to be compatible with USB-->RS232 adapters.

 

If that's all it takes - and I don't need a whole desk (or box) full of Commodore stuff, maybe I'll acquire one of your off-brand computers when I run across one. Then I'll see what the fuss is about. I wonder if all the Ataris here will beat it up when I'm at work. Oh yeah, the computers don't fight - only the users.

[JamesD]

Hey Commodore users (since there's so many of you in this thread).

 

 

Anybody have any experience with this:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/C64TPC-Connect-Commodo...1QQcmdZViewItem

 

 

It appears to be a reasonable facsimile of Atari's SIO2PC.

It is for sale in Turkey, which makes me a bit nervous.

It's "C64TPC" and it seems reasonably priced.

It claims to be incompatible with Fast-load cartridges.

It also claims to be 37% faster than 1541 drive.

It sucks that it requires a power supply.

It sucks even worse that one's not included.

It sucks that it's RS232 and not USB.

It claims to be compatible with USB-->RS232 adapters.

 

If that's all it takes - and I don't need a whole desk (or box) full of Commodore stuff, maybe I'll acquire one of your off-brand computers when I run across one. Then I'll see what the fuss is about. I wonder if all the Ataris here will beat it up when I'm at work. Oh yeah, the computers don't fight - only the users.

 

Try this:

http://www.ide64.org/cable.html

[Wolfram]

Please.. the Vic was an utter failure in the US. The main market at the time.

Yeps a real failure on the main market. With 18 million sold units... And with C128 selling another 4 million. May I mention that the entire A8 line sold just about 4 million too?

Vic 20 a mostly non starter, Not C64, what can I say, the public often is not too bright.

Sorry I don't know commonsore terminology. To me a vic means vic20.

 

Your original statement was that the VIC was an utter market failure in the US. Sorry, but you got that wrong. VIC20 was the first computer to ever sell 1 million units. It was absolutely not a technical breakthrough, but more people could afford it than Ataris. If I remember right from the C= Book "on the Edge" VIC20 was originally a few weeks own hobby project of Bob Yannes ( SID designer). He just wanted to build a computer around the already existing but unused VIC-I gfx chip for fun. But when he showed it to one of his bosses, the machine got eventually made it to be seen by Jack Tramiel who instantly ordered it to be manufactured

Sorry, you are wrong, it never got market penetration and most who bought it found they could not do anything much with it and there was little to no software and what little there was was very hard to find as nobody carried it. With Atari you could go lots of places like Sears,Service Merchandise, Burdines,Lazarus and most major retailers. Also I still hate SID sounds, really grates on my nerves.

 

Sorry, you are wrong. The first computer to ever sell 1 million units had market penetration, and is/was a market success.

Total flop and wholly unsupported at the consumer level unlike Atari. I know a few people back in the day that bought one as it was cheap. They however did nothing with it and could not find software for it. Yeah.. that a real success

 

VIC20 was the first computer to ever sell 1 million units. It was a huge market success.

Say it all you like. Still wrong. Here in the US. (main computer market) it was a flop. Success generally means that people dev for it and it's available easily to the public. It was not. Kind like the Virtual Boy, sold a bunch, no software, flop. Actually I think Virtual boy did better

Most of those machine sold here were never used. It was a novelty based on price.It was the cheapest machine around and people bought it. People wanted to be part of the emerging "computer age". Not understanding anything about machines they chose the cheapest one.

Besides the machine sucked. Give me an Atari 400/800 anyday.Heck at that time a 2600 was a much better choice. Consumers at the time were buying machine for games mostly. Commodore had no great license games and really nothing to offer even if you could find software for it.

It's only thing was that it was cheap. Made a great doorstop,closet liner, landfill filler, take your pick.

We had neighbors who had one setup on the coffee table. They showed it off. When asked what it did they turned it on and we all looked at it. I asked what they could do with it and the answer was that they had no idea. They never did.

 

You are wrong. The original claim was that it was a market huge market success. the first computer ever selling over 1 million unit is a huge market success. Market success is to be measured in sales numbers.

Keep trying. Still wrong. Again market success or failure is obvious when nearly nobody writes software for your system. As in programmers are trying to make money. As is obvious VIC20 failed.Not mainstream. Atari,Apple, Heck Tandy and TI(not a bad system) had more available and Atari and Apple had 1st tier titles as well. Vic failed. I can't even believe we are having this conversation about such a joke of a system. Were you even alive at the time?

 

Stop redefining the meaning of market success. VIC20 was a HUGE market success. whatever you say. Its not like I dont agree with most of you're seeing. But its all offtopic, changing subject. One thing you can never take away from the VIC20: first ever computer to ever sell 1 million units. and that means a huge market success.

 

edit: interesting note from spiceware. VIC20 sold 2.5 millon. more than half of ALL a8 models put together.

It's a fact. You just don't like hearing it. They sold a million pos doorstops with no 1st tier software and no availability of software. You'll just have to deal with it. Maybe Lemon64 would fit your few. I imagine there are many there with the same lame excuse. I lived during that period. Did you?

 

wow man, face it: already even 2 of the atari guys have corrected you, one of them even said it had software, pheripherals, etc etc etc. VIC20 was a huge market success. you just cant face the reality.

You still don't seem to get it, face reality son, you keep avoiding the obvious, peripherals that noboday could find or use and home grow software are far from success. Floppity flop flop/ Face it, You also avoided my question. Were you even alive back then? How would you know how things were without actually being there? Just a foolish fanboy. Why any love for that flop box is beyond me.

 

VIC20 had both Commodore and third party peripherals, software was even made by atari for it, game carts alone counts 300. sold ALONE more than half of ALL a8 models together.

 

VIC20 was a huge market succes, first computer to ever sell a million, its sales numbers dwarfes any 8bit atari computer model's.

 

we can deeper and deeper in the numbers, and thing is it goes like this: as we go on you have to step back always from more and more of your claims. it had pheripherals, it had games, it had userbase. it had everything. You cant accept the bare facts.

 

You also avoided my question. Were you even alive back then? How would you know how things were without actually being there? Just a foolish fanboy. Why any love for that flop box is beyond me.

 

wow how stupid can this get. were you alive in the 1st world war? how do you know what happened then? stop trolling sir. play it fair. accept the facts.

The stupidity is on your part son. I guess your answer(finally) to being around at the time is no. So you don't have the same reference of the market the people who were do. You just have some wiki crap and a warped pro commodore bias.

The trolling is on your part as I've been here awhile and not seen you. Judging from what I am seeing so far you will probably be gone to troll elsewhere with your incorrect info soon.

 

Floppity flop flop, Vic failed. Nobody back in the day took it seriously here in the states especially with only 5k ram and 1 joystick port. It was Apple or Atari. Those were the main systems.

Your insistence is funny though. :)

 

ah I see you give it up now. you are now really into the trolling. no arguments. only personals.

 

even the atari fans are prooving and provving you wrong.

 

lets take the facts again:

 

let's just repeat: VIC20 sales dwarfes any other atari 8 bit model's. take a wild guess what machines where the main systems back then.

 

VIC20 had both Commodore and third party peripherals, software was even made by atari for it, game carts alone counts 300. sold ALONE more than half of ALL a8 models together. VIC20 was a huge market succes, with being the first computer to ever sell a million. it had pheripherals, it had games, it had userbase. it had everything.

[Wolfram]

Hey Commodore users (since there's so many of you in this thread).

 

 

Anybody have any experience with this:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/C64TPC-Connect-Commodo...1QQcmdZViewItem

 

 

If that's all it takes - and I don't need a whole desk (or box) full of Commodore stuff, maybe I'll acquire one of your off-brand computers when I run across one. Then I'll see what the fuss is about. I wonder if all the Ataris here will beat it up when I'm at work. Oh yeah, the computers don't fight - only the users.

 

 

you dont want such stuff for the c64. it wont run anything with a custom loader. I dont know if you already know this so I just exlain anyway: all c64 fastloaders, and 99% of games and ALL demos load using custom loaders. this means uploading code to the 1541 drive's ram. the 1541 has to be emulated so such loaders will wirk. c64 to pc solutions only emulate the default protocol, and not the full 1541 -> c64tpc and similar doesnt runs shit except onefilers. if you want a system which runs almost anything get an 1541 ultimate: http://www.1541ultimate.net/content/index.php

[Allas]

About Nebulus, you need to post the real screen, because on emulator you can't capture the artifact colors (Yes this is a artifact Atari game).

On PAL A8's there artifacting does not work. I tried it with one of my XL's and a "Panther" tape original: No artifacting, clearly visible black & white pixel patterns (Panther uses artifacting for the score & lives display area).

 

Those are games for NTSC market. "Tower toppler" for NTSC America, and "Nebulus" for PAL TVs (don't exist). Some games had versions for both systems, but here that it's not the case.

[FastRobPlus]

lets take the facts again:

 

let's just repeat: VIC20 sales dwarfes any other atari 8 bit model's. take a wild guess what machines where the main systems back then.

 

VIC20 had both Commodore and third party peripherals, software was even made by atari for it, game carts alone counts 300. sold ALONE more than half of ALL a8 models together. VIC20 was a huge market succes, with being the first computer to ever sell a million. it had pheripherals, it had games, it had userbase. it had everything.

 

 

William Shatner does not count as a 3rd party peripheral.

[Wolfram]

The mere suggestion that it continues to be a driving force in modern music is not only laughably ridiculous, but unnecessary to establish its merit. I still like it. Lots of people do, I imagine.

 

I fully agree, and who suggested that?

 

I think it both ridiculous and unnecessary to purport the C64 as a web server, 32-bit computer, or 512Mb of RAM container - in order to extol its virtues.

 

indeed, tell the atari guy who did that, to stop with it.

 

 

Is the 64HDD also a floppy emulator? If you can't run "boot disc" images off your PC's hard drive then you'd be missing out a whole lot. Easily done on A8.

 

this whole issue is on one side a pro on the other side a con for both machines. for all c64 loaders to work you have to emulate the 1541 timed cycle exactly. you cant just emulate a protocol, as each c64 fastloader uses different wires, different timings, different protocols.

 

pro for the c64 because: intelligent drive design, you can speed it over atari loading speeds

con: not so good for the emulation era. but when it really mattered in the heydays it was a pro.

 

Is software readily available on the web for C64? Every game I've ever heard of (and then some) are on the web for A8.

 

sure. even the unfinished/abandoned during development games has their own site, recovering every piece if information whats possible. many of them have layable demos:

 

http://gtw64.retro-net.de/

 

the nr of such games is comparable to the ones released for a8.

 

 

Can you make your own multi-game cartridge for the C64? The Atarimax 8-Megabit carts are the coolest thing I've ever seen on the A8. You program them right in the Atari itself.

 

can. but nobody cares. cartridges were not a format being taken seriously for the c64. the best games are multiload and cant make it into carts without serious hacking, so why bother. those were made compatible with IDE64 already if you need instant loading times.

[atariksi]

...

Try this:

http://www.ide64.org/cable.html

 

That requires another piece of hardware it looks like to function.

[atariksi]

...

If that's all it takes - and I don't need a whole desk (or box) full of Commodore stuff, maybe I'll acquire one of your off-brand computers when I run across one. Then I'll see what the fuss is about. I wonder if all the Ataris here will beat it up when I'm at work. Oh yeah, the computers don't fight - only the users.

"All the fuss" is mostly hype. If you get used to an Atari game/application, you'll find C64 equivalent dull looking, slower, and/or test your patience by reading from disk drive/tape unlike most Atari games which load fully.

[Wolfram]

...

Try this:

http://www.ide64.org/cable.html

 

That requires another piece of hardware it looks like to function.

 

as I said only use such stuff if you're ok with the fact that it not supports custom loaders = nothing will work except onefilers and lame programs using the default loader.

 

this is the thing: http://www.1541ultimate.net/content/index.php