Rockford Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 This is more the c64 I recall.. mm this is a hot one too.. c64 c64 c64 1983 c64 1983 by commodore for their own machine! OK, let's do it your way. The real darlings on Atari this one... or maybe this one... this one looks fantastic too and what about this beauty .... All these games were commercial releases, made by US publishers in 1983 and I could show you MUCH MORE. By the way, the C64 ones don't look particularly bad compared to Atari beauties So, if you want to prove anything, try to compare the same games on both computers, otherwise it doesn't make any sense, does it ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockford Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 (edited) Same company as Zaxxon, those morons did not know how to program for Atari, probably took you awhile to find a title from that era that looked better than a8 You will be surprised how easy it is Today another full budget game from "golden era of Atari"... I wonder what went wrong this time ? bad programming ? ... more love for C64 ? 26 - Mr. DO'S CASTLE C64 C64 C64 The C64 version has better graphics, animation, sprites and plays fast and fluid. The atari version has ugly sprites, poor animation and works slower (even though the play area is smaller ). C64 wins again. ATARI ATARI ATARI Edited September 26, 2009 by Rockford 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.atarimania.com Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 It is from the non-cartridge version yes as in Europe we're not big on wasting £30 on games instead of £8 for it, the other is from a cartridge from the USA(and EU too possible) but both are from 1983 as can clearly be seen on the copyright notice anyway so not recoded and both versions were released in 1983 it is just a different format from a different country. Sorry for nitpicking but SEGA games were sold by US Gold in the UK so that couldn't have been in 1983. It was either 1984 or 1985. -- Atari Frog http://www.atarimania.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.atarimania.com Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 (edited) Anyway both games are full price games expected to sell in massive amounts so the time frame is right (1983 when you had half a century of A8 development and 1 year for the C64) and clearly these are large software houses with full price resources thrown at both in a time when the A8 wasn't yet considered a market failure compared to the C64 as in 1983 sales were still picking up after the fall 82 launch. What's your point? The entire Atari community recognizes Congo Bongo as pap and most C64 users will admit the Atari version could've been way better... SEGA developed the excellent Frogger II a year later so it's clearly an indication that something went wrong with Congo Bongo. -- Atari Frog http://www.atarimania.com Edited September 26, 2009 by www.atarimania.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oky2000 Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 Also isn't the C64s user defined 128 character limit also removed in C128 mode? If you mean characters in a set, the C64 has 256 definitions rather than 128 as standard. Ahh no what I mean is redefined char sets you copy in RAM, could be wrong but I thought the C64 is limited to 128 characters (maybe per 16k bank) or something as opposed to the C128 in 128 mode with 40 column mode. Could be wrong and I can't find the link to what I was reading about C64 vs C128 in 40 column mode. And yes the 2mhz mode has to be while screen is blanked because the VIC-II wasn't implemented on a bus compatible with the CPU running at 2mhz sadly...big big oversight for Commodore though making using 2mhz mode tricky on the 128 and not to it's full potential otherwise we could have had a great version of Elite or Rescue on Fractalus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazarus Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 Ahh no what I mean is redefined char sets you copy in RAM, could be wrong but I thought the C64 is limited to 128 characters (maybe per 16k bank) or something as opposed to the C128 in 128 mode with 40 column mode. Could be wrong and I can't find the link to what I was reading about C64 vs C128 in 40 column mode. 40 column mode is the same for both modes because both use the VIC2. And it's indeed 256 characters. It's the A8 which has a 128 chars limit. And yes the 2mhz mode has to be while screen is blanked because the VIC-II wasn't implemented on a bus compatible with the CPU running at 2mhz sadly...big big oversight for Commodore though making using 2mhz mode tricky on the 128 and not to it's full potential otherwise we could have had a great version of Elite or Rescue on Fractalus. It takes about 5 minutes of work to install two LDA STA's on top and bottom of the display field to enable and disable 2 MHz. It's the opposite of difficult, it's one of the easiest things even every beginner can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oky2000 Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 Anyway both games are full price games expected to sell in massive amounts so the time frame is right (1983 when you had half a century of A8 development and 1 year for the C64) and clearly these are large software houses with full price resources thrown at both in a time when the A8 wasn't yet considered a market failure compared to the C64 as in 1983 sales were still picking up after the fall 82 launch. What's your point? The entire Atari community recognizes Congo Bongo as pap and most C64 users will admit the Atari version could've been way better... SEGA developed the excellent Frogger II a year later so it's clearly an indication that something went wrong with Congo Bongo. -- Atari Frog http://www.atarimania.com The point is maybe it isn't so easy because it looks suspiciously identical to the C64 cartridge version which only uses 4 colours on the entire screen due to ignorance (unlike with the A8 where the official specification is 4 colours @ 160x200...unique any colour/total palette that is). Clearly getting 16 unique colours in 160x200 is a massive problem and clearly not down to 'budget release' programmers. Frogger 2 is using raster line type palette changes due to the way the game is played...changes in colour moving vertically across the screen left to right is a massive headache on the A8. Frogger II is the horizontal pencil picture and Congo Bongo is more like the vertical pencils picture on the C64 hence the 'point' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarian63 Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 Same company as Zaxxon, those morons did not know how to program for Atari, probably took you awhile to find a title from that era that looked better than a8 You will be surprised how easy it is Today another full budget game from "golden era of Atari"... I wonder what went wrong this time ? bad programming ? ... more love for C64 ? 26 - Mr. DO'S CASTLE C64 C64 C64 The C64 version has better graphics, animation, sprites and plays fast and fluid. The atari version has ugly sprites, poor animation and works slower (even though the play area is smaller ). C64 wins again. ATARI ATARI ATARI looks like nothing went wrong Atari 8 is clearly closer to the arcade version. How do I know for sure. I own this full sized arcade machine. The Atari is clearly superior. Thanks for the help Rockford! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarian63 Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 (edited) Atari Frogger II, Atari is better, The c64 frog has something really wrong with it! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfvHCC2P9Ig C64 with weird frog http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPZaIibxiI8&feature=related Edited September 26, 2009 by atarian63 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteD Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 That's a Venezuelan Indigenous Carnivore frog Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 Atari Frogger II, Atari is better, The c64 frog has something really wrong with it! I like the Atari version better too. However, I've seen the 64 do better than this and I suspect this is just another case of lazy coding- this time in our favor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 Ahh no what I mean is redefined char sets you copy in RAM, could be wrong but I thought the C64 is limited to 128 characters (maybe per 16k bank) or something Nope, a user-defined character set gets 256 characters and you can point at one of the eight 2K blocks in the current video bank (apart from where the hardware fonts are shadowed in at $1000 to $1fff and $9000 to $9fff). My latest C64 game uses a single character set for it's in-game backgrounds, taking up over 250 character definitions in total... And yes the 2mhz mode has to be while screen is blanked because the VIC-II wasn't implemented on a bus compatible with the CPU running at 2mhz sadly...big big oversight for Commodore though making using 2mhz mode tricky on the 128 and not to it's full potential otherwise we could have had a great version of Elite or Rescue on Fractalus. That would've required a redesign of the VIC-II and Commodore were probably trying to avoid doing that, they wanted the backward compatibility (the one that rather ironically harmed the machine's native market to quite a degree). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 (edited) That would've required a redesign of the VIC-II and Commodore were probably trying to avoid doing that, they wanted the backward compatibility (the one that rather ironically harmed the machine's native market to quite a degree). The compatibility was the only cause to get a C128.... A native market for the C128 was obsolete. Other computers had way better features for business needs The main difference between the 64 and the 128 was, that the 64 was something "new" in 82. In 85 the C128 was nothing new, it was just a plumbered machine with 2 slow CPUs. People who wanted a C64 bought a C64 , and people who needed finally a better business machine....> Just looking at the Amstrad. A "cheap" solution with a dedicated monitor and speedup to 4MHz and some nice games were available from the start. Not to tell about the upcoming 16 bit "power" machines. Only people who dreamed of a "better" C64 bought the C128 ... and , well, some ... misleds... Edited September 26, 2009 by emkay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popmilo Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 ... Thta is also my point, this all is circlular logic... but the examples exist though we all know that the form they are in have LOTS of reasons for being what they are. Time,money,market conditions, year of design and yes hardware, Atari 8bit was stiffled at it's mid point as is obvious from later examples. We could use you C64 guys to step up and complete some of that. I would be happy to Buy! In spite of the bickering a bit, you all seem to be a nice, fun lot! Thank you! A8 guys like you seem to be a nice, fun lot! We'll try to do our best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchman Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 I wouldn't have guessed 10 times, a ballpark figure I had in my head might be 25% of the c64 titles, given the lifetime of the machine.. But... Gamebase64 lists 20600 games.. Out of curiousity what's the total commercial titles released for A8 ? I see AtariMania lists 8,118 games for A8, but I'm doubtful as to that being commercial games, though I'm open to being enlightened Don't be so fooled by GB64 20.000+ titles. Take away the 1000s of selfmade screens/games from stuff like Boulder Dash Construction Kit titles (they are numerous on GB64, not just with 'Boulder Dash' in the heading, you gotta dig deep), PCS titles, Lode Runner screens, SEUCK games, type in listings from German/US/UKmagazines, homemade unreleased stuff, it'll come closer to 15.000 titles most likely even less Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchman Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 (edited) I'd like to see you try to find even 10 games in the gb64 database that have multiple entries for different cracks. That should keep you busy for a while. Here's a little entry where GB64 lists construction kit titles as releases (see, I found 88 already, wow that was easy): http://www.gb64.com/search.php?f=0&t=0&s=boulder+dash&d=18&h=1&a=0 88 Boulder Dash games....yep right. Of course, C64 users see this and go, way hey 20600 games released for C64, COOOOL! Edited September 26, 2009 by frenchman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchman Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 I think you'll find that a significant portion of the 20000+ games on Gamebase 64 are duplicates of the same game but cracked/hacked by a different crew/group etc...so take out the duplicates and you end up with about 8-10k or around abouts The village idiot strikes back... -- Atari Frog http://www.atarimania.com I suggest an apology is in order, don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irgendwer Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 Hi, since it would be nice if something useful comes out of all these comparisons, I've provide a small initial list with some of the results here. I don't have the time to maintain the list (Heaven, could it be that the developers are busy with developments?) - maybe somebody else is able to do so? (Emkay? Rockford? - BTW: It would be great if you could enter your comparisons into the list, if we also introduce a minimum rating of 'Lemon 6' you are through very fast with yours (but the 'Jockey Wilson'-entry I've done must be deleted then ).) Irgendwer BTW: New entry below... AtariVsCommodore.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oky2000 Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 Same company as Zaxxon, those morons did not know how to program for Atari, probably took you awhile to find a title from that era that looked better than a8 You will be surprised how easy it is Today another full budget game from "golden era of Atari"... I wonder what went wrong this time ? bad programming ? ... more love for C64 ? 26 - Mr. DO'S CASTLE C64 C64 C64 The C64 version has better graphics, animation, sprites and plays fast and fluid. The atari version has ugly sprites, poor animation and works slower (even though the play area is smaller ). C64 wins again. ATARI ATARI ATARI Yes amazingly even though the Atari has 256 colours this looks like an Acorn BBC Micro game with it's garish mismatched colours The moving computer controlled characters are low resolution 1 colour dirty brown/grey colour. And the music sounds a bit like a BBC Micro (which is OK just a bit different) Oh and the animation seems to stop and stutter on the A8 like there is not enough RAM for all the frames or something. Very strange indeed. Both are on youtube for anyone who wants to check them out....the A8 one is the one with 1/3 of the screen unused to you can see it easily even though it isn't labelled as such in the title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazarus Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 (edited) Here's a little entry where GB64 lists construction kit titles as releases (see, I found 88 already, wow that was easy): http://www.gb64.com/search.php?f=0&t=0&s=boulder+dash&d=18&h=1&a=0 You forgot: 720 SEUCK games 239 PCS games EDIT: 114 Boulder Dash Of course, C64 users see this and go, way hey 20600 games released for C64, COOOOL! The same can easily be said about A8 users raving over 8100 title on AtariMania. I also see a hell lot of modded Boulder Dash with different levels. What I also see is the same game in different variants (disk, tape, cart, cart v2 etc) which I don't see on Gamebase64. Edited September 26, 2009 by Lazarus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.atarimania.com Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 Isn't Mr. Do!'s Castle only 8K on the Atari? Anyway, it may have to do with the fact that Parker Brothers wanted to release the game on cartridge in the first place. -- Atari Frog http://www.atarimania.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.atarimania.com Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 What I also see is the same game in different variants (disk, tape, cart, cart v2 etc) which I don't see on Gamebase64. We actually try to list the actual releases and variations that are different enough compared to the original. It's a pretty ridiculous point anyway... I don't see the problem in listing homebrew Pinball Construction Set tables, Boulder Dash caves or type-ins from books as separate entries... Now fifty entries for the Cascade 50 games, that's another story -- Atari Frog http://www.atarimania.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazarus Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 (edited) What I also see is the same game in different variants (disk, tape, cart, cart v2 etc) which I don't see on Gamebase64. We actually try to list the actual releases and variations that are different enough compared to the original. It's a pretty ridiculous point anyway... I don't see the problem in listing homebrew Pinball Construction Set tables, Boulder Dash caves or type-ins from books as separate entries... Now fifty entries for the Cascade 50 games, that's another story Not a problem for me to list every release. In fact I dislike the fact that Gamebase64 restricts themselves to one version only. And that's also why I think both archives are not comparable. Anyway: 1064 Boulder Dashes Not all of them Boulder Dash level mods though, some are regular Boulder Dash clones. Time to mention a quite good clone: Crystal Fever Edited September 26, 2009 by Lazarus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 Of course, C64 users see this and go, way hey 20600 games released for C64, COOOOL! Actually, we don't... no more than Atarians take the 8,000 plus total at AtariMania as an actual count of titles because it contains multiple entries for the same game, homebrew, Boulder Dash levels, missing titles and so on as well. At most it can demonstrate that there were more C64 than A8 games, but after that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.atarimania.com Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 I suggest an apology is in order, don't you think? To Caramel? So he can go on with his moronic antics? Considering what you said to Rockford, I also find this a bit of a joke... -- Atari Frog http://www.atarimania.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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