Atari v Commodore

[ANTIQ]

Has anyone ever used the collision registers to work out where they are on a line?

[atariksi]

It's used in many games-- just look at Hero. It uses DLI for making very colorful sprites and screens (256 screens as I recall).

 

It divides the background into fixed coloured bands whilst the C64 colour RAM can change things on a character by character basis vertically and horizontally...

Irrelevant to the point being made. And even then you shouldn't even argue against it given your speculative stands that more colors don't affect the beauty. You are just desperately trying to find fault and don't consider TRUTH to be of any use. Your reply (taken as a whole) is self-contradictory. You should at least be consistent with yourself and also not cut out some things relevant to the point.

 

In those cases, just BMX Simulator if memory serves (since both Zybex and Draconus run at 160*100*4) and the A8 is using a bitmapped mode rather than characters - i did ask what overhead using bitmaps places on the A8 DMA previously, but you didn't answer...?

Don't remember when you asked but we can discuss that once you agree on the main point being discussed here.

 

That's not a tangent to talk about GPRIOR 0 or GTIA if the game can be done in those modes.

 

It is within a thread that is meant to be a comparison of exisiting games on both platforms.

This thread is NOT meant for comparison of existing games on BOTH platforms. I already argued this with you before with example of getting someone milk and milk generation from cows.

 

Here's the first definition in my dictionary: UGLY- displeasing to the senses. So if it looks wrong or sticks out like a sore thumb that's only because it's displeasing to the senses so the word UGLY applies.

 

And it wasn't your dictionary equating something looking wrong or sticking out to actually being displeasing at all, ...

It's correct interpretation and you said "sticking out like a sore thumb" not just sticking out. The reason you don't see it that way is because as you said you think beauty is subjective. So once that's resolved (that you are mistaken) then this would automatically make sense.

 

Your example of dead carcasses

 

Unless you're reading "the carcass of a purple leather sofa" and believing that said sofa to have been alive at some point (in which case, get help... seriously!) i've never referred to a dead anything in this context - so that basically means i have to say something about how you're not reading what i've written properly, doesn't it...

Sorry, that won't cut it. Whether it's dead carcasses or sofa carcass, the point is the same-- the colors and shades can increase the beauty of that scene.

 

If you had the same artist paint the Mona Lisa with C64 palette and the same artist paint it with true color, the latter is more beautiful. (period).

 

And since we're discussing beauty in general terms and not about the C64 or indeed A8 palette at this point you're using the Chewbacca defense by introducing it in an attempt to confuse matters. Who knows though, since it's all just theoretical the Mona Lisa might end up being more beautiful in the C64 palette since the resolution of a painting is higher than either the C64 or A8 can manage and we're talking about a truly exceptional artist.

Don't play dumb now. It's CHEWBACCA DEFENSE if you now change the argument to have resolution differences. You are arguing beauty in general-- I'm stating that more colors and more shades make the world more beautiful. And you are also wrong in resolution aspect as well but that's a different point (which I discussed before in the thread). And my point about beauty is related to the palette differences on different systems include C64 and A8.

 

NO, in general more colors and more shades is good but there may be some exceptions.

 

And now you're trying to change your argument; previously the addition of more colours automatically equated to more beauty and now there are "some exceptions"...

You misunderstood my point. I am not accepting your example that "the existence of which demonstrate that having more color isn't always a good thing generally." nor your claim: "Again, beauty is subjective, in the eye of the beholder, etc." I will use a simpler analogy than the VGA. Traffic lights help control traffic flow and prevent accidents. Well, you can certainly come up with an example where you purposely go through a red light and disrupt traffic flow or cause an accident, but still the general statement that traffic lights help control traffic flow and prevent accidents is true. More colors and more shades increase beauty (in general), but if you purposely misuse the colors or use the wrong colors that doesn't refute my statement nor does it show that beauty is subjective nor beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

[Rockford]

 

Same company as Zaxxon, those morons did not know how to program for Atari, probably took you awhile to find a title from that era that looked better than a8

 

You will be surprised how easy it is

Today another full budget game from "golden era of Atari"... I wonder what went wrong this time ? bad programming ? ... more love for C64 ?

 

26 - Mr. DO'S CASTLE

 

C64

C64

C64

 

The C64 version has better graphics, animation, sprites and plays fast and fluid. The atari version has ugly sprites, poor animation and works slower (even though the play area is smaller ). C64 wins again.

 

ATARI

ATARI

ATARI

looks like nothing went wrong Atari 8 is clearly closer to the arcade version. How do I know for sure. I own this full sized arcade machine. The Atari is clearly superior. Thanks for the help Rockford!

Excellent joke You know, in the kingdom of the blind the man with one eye is king By the way, thanks for admitting that the C64 version is even better than the original one from arcade. It really shows the power and superiority of C64.

Nice try, obviously the c64 version is inferior,not bad just inferior. You really do not listen you know..

:D Everyone can play both versions and see what the real truth is, so I don't even bother to dispute it anymore, just the fact that you try to disavow it proves your helplessness in the face of actual reality. Though I understand that the ability to deny reality is a vital necessity when living in the Atari world

[Irgendwer]

:D Everyone can play both versions and see what the real truth is, so I don't even bother to dispute it anymore, just the fact that you try to disavow it proves your helplessness in the face of actual reality. Though I understand that the ability to deny reality is a vital necessity when living in the Atari world

 

Where are the high-rated games?

For your 'Mr.Do Castle' (7.5) I give you a

 

Jet-Boot-Jack: 7.6

 

Here are some others:

Popeye: 7.5

Spy Hunter: 8

Crystal Castles: 6.5

Karateka: 7.5

Ralley Speedway: 8.25

Moon Patrol: 7.5

 

(all higher rated than your 6.1 Feud...)

[Rockford]

:D Everyone can play both versions and see what the real truth is, so I don't even bother to dispute it anymore, just the fact that you try to disavow it proves your helplessness in the face of actual reality. Though I understand that the ability to deny reality is a vital necessity when living in the Atari world

 

Where are the high-rated games?

For your 'Mr.Do Castle' (7.5) I give you a

 

Jet-Boot-Jack: 7.6

 

Here are some others:

Popeye: 7.5

Spy Hunter: 8

Crystal Castles: 6.5

Karateka: 7.5

Ralley Speedway: 8.25

Moon Patrol: 7.5

 

(all higher rated than your 6.1 Feud...)

Oh, yeah you selected Feud 6.1 but "honestly" forgot to mention other games that I've showed so far: Trolls and Tribulation 8.3, Barbarian 8.2, Panther 8.0, Super Zaxxon 7.8, Spellbound 7.8 and so on... Please remind me, weren't it you who wanted to compare scanned crap to drawn pictures Well, it doesn't surprise me at all to see you in "this kind of action" again. Furthermore, it amazes me how some atarians try to complicate simple things. Barbarian got 8.0 and Feud only 6.1 AND SO WHAT I said it before and I say it again, I show different games that were published in different years (even from the allegedly golden era of Atari ). Some of them are good, some of them are not so good, but as long as I compare THE SAME GAMES ON BOTH COMPUTERS it's fair, simple and makes sense. It's a free board, so feel free to make tables, count percentage, integrals and whatever you want, but don't force other people to do the same nonsensical thing :!:

Edited September 27, 2009 by Rockford

[PeteD]

Has anyone ever used the collision registers to work out where they are on a line?

 

I'm intrigued How would you do it? I'm not au fait with the A8 collision hardware so can't think of any way of doing it myself, not to a cycle exact nature which is what's wanted anyway.

 

 

Pete

[Irgendwer]

Oh, yeah you selected Feud 6.1 but "honestly" forgot to mention other games that I've showed so far: Trolls and Tribulation 8.3, Barbarian 8.2, Panther 8.0, Super Zaxxon 7.8, Spellbound 7.8 and so on...

You are talking about superiority. And I'm saying that superior games (higher rated) are even better on A8.

 

Please remind me, weren't it you who wanted to compare scanned crap to drawn pictures

 

I've said:

I think you get this totally wrong. This wasn't a presentation of my abilities (which were in this case of course poor), but a presentation of the abilities of the machine.

 

and you answered:

No it's not, but you are trying to compare a pixel drawn picture, that takes a lot of time and work, to a scanned s..t, that can be made by a well trained monkey. Did you really want a real comparison ? Why didn't you draw it pixel by pixel ? If you try to prove something or impress anybody don't copy, ripp off or digitalize others people work. It's lame and laughable, especially if you brag about it to someone who knows how it works.

 

which misses totally my point. If the hardware is superior, there is no need to reproduce an image pixel by pixel to achieve a (more) realistic image (that was STE'86 obviously tried with his pixel by pixel work - with a nice result for a C64).

Do you have a digi-cam or do you carry paint and canvas with you for making pictures? Which is better for the reproduction of the original view?

 

Barbarian got 8.0 and Feud only 6.1 AND SO WHAT

That people do care more for a Barbarian than a Feud version?

 

 

I said it before and I say it again, I show different games that were published in different years (even from the allegedly golden era of Atari ). Some of them are good, some of them are not so good, but as long as I compare THE SAME GAMES ON BOTH COMPUTERS it's fair, simple and makes sense.

 

Yes, but I think that regarding quality, you're loosing this.

 

 

BTW:

With the 'respect thing' - you even don't notice when someone is kidding. I think I've shown more than once that I'm able to produce nice results based on abilities and not on technique, but you don't even bother to do some research before writing crap.

 

Floyd of the Jungle: 8.2

[TMR]

You are just desperately trying to find fault and don't consider TRUTH to be of any use. Your reply (taken as a whole) is self-contradictory. You should at least be consistent with yourself and also not cut out some things relevant to the point.

 

No, my reply taken as a whole (which it's not meant to be, there are multiple threads running simultaneously here) isn't contradictory at all; my point below still remains that beauty is subjective and my point here is unrelated since it's about being able to add colours in a more arbitary way and therefore about flexibility of the hardware and nothing to do with beauty. Your attempt at mixing the two up to confuse things, that'd be another example of your using the Chewbacca defense.

 

It's correct interpretation and you said "sticking out like a sore thumb" not just sticking out.

 

Again, it's your interpretation and that's not the same thing at all. i've not denied that i said "like a sore thumb" and have given reasoning behind why that doesn't translate to being ugly; i'll say it again, feel free to hit your own thumb with a hammer until it's sore (the thumb, not the hammer) and it'll stand out from the other, not because it's ugly but because it looks out of place being all red and swollen (or perhaps bruised, depends how hard you've hit it). Of course, if you do think it's ugly, that's subjective so "video or it didn't happen" and we'll take a vote. =-)

 

Unless you're reading "the carcass of a purple leather sofa" and believing that said sofa to have been alive at some point (in which case, get help... seriously!) i've never referred to a dead anything in this context

Sorry, that won't cut it.

 

The dictionary entry for the word "carcass" has definitions that have no relationship whatsoever to death so, since you were the one wanting to bring dictionary definitions into this part of the discussion, it follows that either you didn't know about those other meanings and are not as educated as you believe yourself or that you simply didn't read any my point closely enough and your reply must be considered questionable under those circumstances.

 

Who knows though, since it's all just theoretical the Mona Lisa might end up being more beautiful in the C64 palette since the resolution of a painting is higher than either the C64 or A8 can manage and we're talking about a truly exceptional artist.

Don't play dumb now. It's CHEWBACCA DEFENSE if you now change the argument to have resolution differences.

 

No, you're the one playing dumb; we were talking about having "the same artist paint the Mona Lisa with C64 palette" (your words, my emphasis) so i haven't changed anything and merely pointed out that a painting would be a significantly higher resolution than a C64. With an artist like da Vinci working in a limited palette from source material he already knew well, there's a chance the second go at the Mona Lisa would be better and without a TARDIS you're not going to prove otherwise.

 

(i said TARDIS rather than "time machine" for a reason, any takers? =-)

 

You misunderstood my point. I am not accepting your example that "the existence of which demonstrate that having more color isn't always a good thing generally." nor your claim: "Again, beauty is subjective, in the eye of the beholder, etc."

 

The phrase "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" is apparently believed to have been coined by Margaret Wolfe Hungerford in the 19th century, but the same sentiment exists in written works dating back to the third so you're arguing with them (a group which includes writers like Benjamin Franklin, William Shakespeare or John Lyly but there are many more) rather than me. Personally, i'm with Bill and Ben (flobadob) on this one.

Edited September 27, 2009 by TMR

[TMR]

Has anyone ever used the collision registers to work out where they are on a line?

 

I'm intrigued How would you do it? I'm not au fait with the A8 collision hardware so can't think of any way of doing it myself, not to a cycle exact nature which is what's wanted anyway.

 

Well, if it's cycle accurate i s'pose it could be used by having the sprite where you wanted to be on a scanline, clearing the collision and waiting for it to set... keep going over a series of scanlines and it's the equivalent of the C64 technique of checking the raster register at the end of a scanline and reacting if the jitter pushes it over to the next?

[analmux]

Has anyone ever used the collision registers to work out where they are on a line?

 

I'm intrigued How would you do it? I'm not au fait with the A8 collision hardware so can't think of any way of doing it myself, not to a cycle exact nature which is what's wanted anyway.

 

Well, if it's cycle accurate i s'pose it could be used by having the sprite where you wanted to be on a scanline, clearing the collision and waiting for it to set... keep going over a series of scanlines and it's the equivalent of the C64 technique of checking the raster register at the end of a scanline and reacting if the jitter pushes it over to the next?

 

Hmmm, reminds me of the 'raster interrupt' of the Nintendo (NES, 8bit). Formally there's no raster register nor a real interrupt, but it can check whether 'sprite 0' is being drawn at a certain moment. Many times some screen split is handled by this sprite 0 trick. F.e. in Super Mario Bros it is used to split the screen underneath the score bar, i.e. split the screen into zones with different scrolling properties. I still wonder why the NES doesn't have real timer or raster NMI/IRQ etc., in some sense it didn't learn from the previous machines on the market.

[TMR]

Formally there's no raster register nor a real interrupt, but it can check whether 'sprite 0' is being drawn at a certain moment. Many times some screen split is handled by this sprite 0 trick. F.e. in Super Mario Bros it is used to split the screen underneath the score bar, i.e. split the screen into zones with different scrolling properties. I still wonder why the NES doesn't have real timer or raster NMI/IRQ etc., in some sense it didn't learn from the previous machines on the market.

 

Y'know... i vagely wondered about screen splits on the NES and had assumed they were just large wait loops until roughly the right scanline. That's what i love about this thread, you can argue the subjectivity of beauty and learn cool stuff about 8-bits! =-)

[andym00]

Hmmm, reminds me of the 'raster interrupt' of the Nintendo (NES, 8bit). Formally there's no raster register nor a real interrupt, but it can check whether 'sprite 0' is being drawn at a certain moment. Many times some screen split is handled by this sprite 0 trick. F.e. in Super Mario Bros it is used to split the screen underneath the score bar, i.e. split the screen into zones with different scrolling properties. I still wonder why the NES doesn't have real timer or raster NMI/IRQ etc., in some sense it didn't learn from the previous machines on the market.

 

It's a sprite 0 collision that you use, not 'being drawn' or such like and if memory serves me right sprite 0 is sitting on the coin in SMB

 

There are other ways to do it though, mainly using PCM sound IRQs as a timer resynched from the NMI.. The APU also has a timer that isn't synchronised with the PPU and you can use this as well if it meets your requirements.. The FDS also has a timer connected to the PPU clock which can trigger irqs as well..

 

Normally though the MMC would provide such services.. MMC3 for example has a proper raster interrupt functionality on it.. Though I guess Nintendo just didn't think it was important enough to include, I mean it's not as if they weren't experienced enough to know better, clearly there was some reasoning behind their decision.. I hope

Edited September 27, 2009 by andym00

[andym00]

Y'know... i vagely wondered about screen splits on the NES and had assumed they were just large wait loops until roughly the right scanline. That's what i love about this thread, you can argue the subjectivity of beauty and learn cool stuff about 8-bits! =-)

 

They are checking over and over.. It doesn't generate any interrupt on the collision, you just have to keep checking the collision register..

 

For example, SMB splitting the screen at the top:

Sprite0Clr:    lda PPU_STATUS            ;wait for sprite 0 flag to clear, which will
              and #%01000000            ;not happen until vblank has ended
              bne Sprite0Clr
              lda GamePauseStatus       ;if in pause mode, do not bother with sprites at all
              lsr
              bcs Sprite0Hit
              jsr MoveSpritesOffscreen
              jsr SpriteShuffler
Sprite0Hit:    lda PPU_STATUS            ;do sprite #0 hit detection
              and #%01000000
              beq Sprite0Hit
              ldy #$14                  ;small delay, to wait until we hit horizontal blank time
HBlankDelay:   dey
              bne HBlankDelay
SkipSprite0:   lda HorizontalScroll      ;set scroll registers from variables
              sta PPU_SCROLL_REG

Edited September 27, 2009 by andym00

[Rockford]

Oh, yeah you selected Feud 6.1 but "honestly" forgot to mention other games that I've showed so far: Trolls and Tribulation 8.3, Barbarian 8.2, Panther 8.0, Super Zaxxon 7.8, Spellbound 7.8 and so on...

You are talking about superiority. And I'm saying that superior games (higher rated) are even better on A8.

 

 

So all these games (like Barbarian) that you "forgot" to mention are not higher rated ? or maybe they are not better on C64 ? For god's sake, read it again (perhaps several times) and THINK before posting. Anyway, I don't buy your "percentage" theory, so you can pass up, since I am not going to argue about such nonsensical idea anymore.

 

 

 

I've said:

I think you get this totally wrong. This wasn't a presentation of my abilities (which were in this case of course poor), but a presentation of the abilities of the machine.

 

and you answered:

No it's not, but you are trying to compare a pixel drawn picture, that takes a lot of time and work, to a scanned s..t, that can be made by a well trained monkey. Did you really want a real comparison ? Why didn't you draw it pixel by pixel ? If you try to prove something or impress anybody don't copy, ripp off or digitalize others people work. It's lame and laughable, especially if you brag about it to someone who knows how it works.

 

 

Well, I see you are still very "honest and truthful", so let's see how it really was and who answered who.

First you discussed with STE (not me !!!)

 

 

 

i truly am not worthy of your ability. LOL

 

I think you get this totally wrong. This wasn't a presentation of my abilities (which were in this case of course poor), but a presentation of the abilities of the machine.

 

 

Then, I answered but the question was different !!!

 

Wow a real achievement indeed, you have just digitalized a picture and then ported it to atari. Nowadays, with PC tools, even monkey can do this

 

Yes, posting different screen shots from two machines and explain that one look better than the other is of course more sophisticated...

 

 

No it's not, but you are trying to compare a pixel drawn picture, that takes a lot of time and work, to a scanned s..t, that can be made by a well trained monkey. Did you really want a real comparison ? Why didn't you draw it pixel by pixel ? If you try to prove something or impress anybody don't copy, ripp off or digitalize others people work. It's lame and laughable, especially if you brag about it to someone who knows how it works. If you are really so good try to draw something like this:

ATARI "Follow the easter rabbit" by Powrooz

C64 "Marshmallow" by Mermaid

 

Well, drawing something like this takes much more time than turning the scanner on, isn't it ? So, If you want some respect (yes you got it right) be creative, only this really counts. You know, there are enough "xerox masters"

 

 

WOW, pure honesty and truthfulness indeed. Will you deliver more ?

 

 

 

Barbarian got 8.0 and Feud only 6.1 AND SO WHAT

That people do care more for a Barbarian than a Feud version?

 

 

 

OK then, Barbarian is a better game than Feud and both these games are better on C64. I can't write it any simpler than that.

 

Well mate, if you wish, develop your "percentage" theory, but exclude me from this s..t and at least stop lying.

[Heaven/TQA]

Formally there's no raster register nor a real interrupt, but it can check whether 'sprite 0' is being drawn at a certain moment. Many times some screen split is handled by this sprite 0 trick. F.e. in Super Mario Bros it is used to split the screen underneath the score bar, i.e. split the screen into zones with different scrolling properties. I still wonder why the NES doesn't have real timer or raster NMI/IRQ etc., in some sense it didn't learn from the previous machines on the market.

 

Y'know... i vagely wondered about screen splits on the NES and had assumed they were just large wait loops until roughly the right scanline. That's what i love about this thread, you can argue the subjectivity of beauty and learn cool stuff about 8-bits! =-)

 

yes... that's why I am still reading this shit here but not spending too much time in arguing...

 

but we should split up these thread into 2 subs...one for bashing and one for technical discussion neverless what it will be at the end...

[oky2000]

:D Everyone can play both versions and see what the real truth is, so I don't even bother to dispute it anymore, just the fact that you try to disavow it proves your helplessness in the face of actual reality. Though I understand that the ability to deny reality is a vital necessity when living in the Atari world

 

Where are the high-rated games?

For your 'Mr.Do Castle' (7.5) I give you a

 

Jet-Boot-Jack: 7.6

 

Here are some others:

Popeye: 7.5

Spy Hunter: 8

Crystal Castles: 6.5

Karateka: 7.5

Ralley Speedway: 8.25

Moon Patrol: 7.5

 

(all higher rated than your 6.1 Feud...)

 

Karateka is really slow and certainly not 7.5 because it affects playability I think, Exploding Fist is a much superior alternative.

[Irgendwer]

Well mate, if you wish, develop your "percentage" theory, but exclude me from this s..t and at least stop lying.

 

Regarding the lying: I try not to bore the people here in repeating my statements and I expect that all active

and replying members are willing to read the posts which are related to the subject. My answer to STE was before

your post which took up the 'is no artwork' statement again, and you were able to take this into respect (especially when taking the time difference into account).

 

But if you like to repeat myself and to bore other readers here:

I think for each game you can find on the C64 which is better than the A8 version, there is a higher rated C64 game which is even better on the A8.

(Sorry, no percentages...)

 

Bye

[analmux]

Oh, yeah you selected Feud 6.1 but "honestly" forgot to mention other games that I've showed so far: Trolls and Tribulation 8.3, Barbarian 8.2, Panther 8.0, Super Zaxxon 7.8, Spellbound 7.8 and so on...

You are talking about superiority. And I'm saying that superior games (higher rated) are even better on A8.

 

 

So all these games (like Barbarian) that you "forgot" to mention are not higher rated ? or maybe they are not better on C64 ? For god's sake, read it again (perhaps several times) and THINK before posting. Anyway, I don't buy your "percentage" theory, so you can pass up, since I am not going to argue about such nonsensical idea anymore.

 

 

 

I've said:

I think you get this totally wrong. This wasn't a presentation of my abilities (which were in this case of course poor), but a presentation of the abilities of the machine.

 

and you answered:

No it's not, but you are trying to compare a pixel drawn picture, that takes a lot of time and work, to a scanned s..t, that can be made by a well trained monkey. Did you really want a real comparison ? Why didn't you draw it pixel by pixel ? If you try to prove something or impress anybody don't copy, ripp off or digitalize others people work. It's lame and laughable, especially if you brag about it to someone who knows how it works.

 

 

Well, I see you are still very "honest and truthful", so let's see how it really was and who answered who.

First you discussed with STE (not me !!!)

 

 

 

i truly am not worthy of your ability. LOL

 

I think you get this totally wrong. This wasn't a presentation of my abilities (which were in this case of course poor), but a presentation of the abilities of the machine.

 

 

Then, I answered but the question was different !!!

 

Wow a real achievement indeed, you have just digitalized a picture and then ported it to atari. Nowadays, with PC tools, even monkey can do this

 

Yes, posting different screen shots from two machines and explain that one look better than the other is of course more sophisticated...

 

 

No it's not, but you are trying to compare a pixel drawn picture, that takes a lot of time and work, to a scanned s..t, that can be made by a well trained monkey. Did you really want a real comparison ? Why didn't you draw it pixel by pixel ? If you try to prove something or impress anybody don't copy, ripp off or digitalize others people work. It's lame and laughable, especially if you brag about it to someone who knows how it works. If you are really so good try to draw something like this:

ATARI "Follow the easter rabbit" by Powrooz

C64 "Marshmallow" by Mermaid

 

Well, drawing something like this takes much more time than turning the scanner on, isn't it ? So, If you want some respect (yes you got it right) be creative, only this really counts. You know, there are enough "xerox masters"

 

 

WOW, pure honesty and truthfulness indeed. Will you deliver more ?

 

 

 

Barbarian got 8.0 and Feud only 6.1 AND SO WHAT

That people do care more for a Barbarian than a Feud version?

 

 

 

OK then, Barbarian is a better game than Feud and both these games are better on C64. I can't write it any simpler than that.

 

Well mate, if you wish, develop your "percentage" theory, but exclude me from this s..t and at least stop lying.

 

Some people do everything to find themselves a hobby they're satisfied with.

 

Somehow I feel compassion for you

[Rockford]

Well mate, if you wish, develop your "percentage" theory, but exclude me from this s..t and at least stop lying.

 

Regarding the lying: I try not to bore the people here in repeating my statements and I expect that all active

and replying members are willing to read the posts which are related to the subject. My answer to STE was before

your post which took up the 'is no artwork' statement again, and you were able to take this into respect (especially when taking the time difference into account).

 

 

When you quote somebody, quote the ENTIRE quote and not just hack bits out. You just changed the meaning of the whole sentence to suit yourself! So it's a very poor excuse.

 

 

 

But if you like to repeat myself and to bore other readers here:

I think for each game you can find on the C64 which is better than the A8 version, there is a higher rated C64 game which is even better on the A8.

(Sorry, no percentages...)

 

 

I said it before and I say it again (last time I hope). The problem is that the Atari games library is very thin and most high rated games on C64 don't exist on Atari. So, when you have games like the Last Ninja, Turrican, Zak McKracken, Maniac Mansion, Armalyte and so on...let me know and then we could start playing with percentages.

Edited September 27, 2009 by Rockford

[atarian63]

 

Same company as Zaxxon, those morons did not know how to program for Atari, probably took you awhile to find a title from that era that looked better than a8

 

You will be surprised how easy it is

Today another full budget game from "golden era of Atari"... I wonder what went wrong this time ? bad programming ? ... more love for C64 ?

 

26 - Mr. DO'S CASTLE

 

C64

C64

C64

 

The C64 version has better graphics, animation, sprites and plays fast and fluid. The atari version has ugly sprites, poor animation and works slower (even though the play area is smaller ). C64 wins again.

 

ATARI

ATARI

ATARI

looks like nothing went wrong Atari 8 is clearly closer to the arcade version. How do I know for sure. I own this full sized arcade machine. The Atari is clearly superior. Thanks for the help Rockford!

Excellent joke You know, in the kingdom of the blind the man with one eye is king By the way, thanks for admitting that the C64 version is even better than the original one from arcade. It really shows the power and superiority of C64.

Nice try, obviously the c64 version is inferior,not bad just inferior. You really do not listen you know..

:D Everyone can play both versions and see what the real truth is, so I don't even bother to dispute it anymore, just the fact that you try to disavow it proves your helplessness in the face of actual reality. Though I understand that the ability to deny reality is a vital necessity when living in the Atari world

Denial.. So common in the pitiful Rockford world.. You need help my friend..

[atarian63]

:D Everyone can play both versions and see what the real truth is, so I don't even bother to dispute it anymore, just the fact that you try to disavow it proves your helplessness in the face of actual reality. Though I understand that the ability to deny reality is a vital necessity when living in the Atari world

 

Where are the high-rated games?

For your 'Mr.Do Castle' (7.5) I give you a

 

Jet-Boot-Jack: 7.6

 

Here are some others:

Popeye: 7.5

Spy Hunter: 8

Crystal Castles: 6.5

Karateka: 7.5

Ralley Speedway: 8.25

Moon Patrol: 7.5

 

(all higher rated than your 6.1 Feud...)

Oh, yeah you selected Feud 6.1 but "honestly" forgot to mention other games that I've showed so far: Trolls and Tribulation 8.3, Barbarian 8.2, Panther 8.0, Super Zaxxon 7.8, Spellbound 7.8 and so on... Please remind me, weren't it you who wanted to compare scanned crap to drawn pictures Well, it doesn't surprise me at all to see you in "this kind of action" again. Furthermore, it amazes me how some atarians try to complicate simple things. Barbarian got 8.0 and Feud only 6.1 AND SO WHAT I said it before and I say it again, I show different games that were published in different years (even from the allegedly golden era of Atari ). Some of them are good, some of them are not so good, but as long as I compare THE SAME GAMES ON BOTH COMPUTERS it's fair, simple and makes sense. It's a free board, so feel free to make tables, count percentage, integrals and whatever you want, but don't force other people to do the same nonsensical thing :!:

You are just trolling, using rare/selective examples and ignore the various reasons and market conditions that many here have pointed out.

I now just have to ask..

Are you dead yet?

[peteym5]

Looking at the games compared between the C64 and A8 port, I should mention most of those Atari games were originally released on a 16k cart, or made to be able to run on a 16k machine (400, 600xl). Many of the disk versions were simply recompiled. They could not sacrifice tons of memory to do fancy graphics. There are 64k games that had better graphics on the A8. Later we had bank switching carts up to 128k that allowed more things to happen with a game.

 

One thing Atari kept to a common standard between the lower and higher machines, every Commodore model had different video & audio chips & different kernel. A few got annoyed at Commodore for that one. I still say they would have been better with sticking with the C64 as a standard for the 8bit, not bother with the +4, 16, instead just have a 16k machine with the C64 chipset and have the +4 would be a C64 with software built in. Having the Z80 in the C128 was a waste, they should have just had the C64 with 128K memory + Vic III.

[popmilo]

I think for each game you can find on the C64 which is better than the A8 version, there is a higher rated C64 game which is even better on the A8.

I can live with that....

As long as I have these to play on my Commodore:

(Taken from Lemon64 top list)

8.93	Supremacy
8.93	Maniac Mansion
8.92	Pirates!
8.90	Project Stealth Fighter
8.89	Zak McKracken and Al...
8.87	Last Ninja 2
8.86	IK+
8.81	Turrican II: The Final fight
8.80	Archon: The Light ...
8.76	Wasteland

A8 has Archon wich is better in A8 fans opinion... fine by me...

A8 also has IK+ wich is graphicaly little weaker than C64 version (lack of details in the fight area) but if you ask me good as C64s...

 

So when you have ports of those other 7 games, than I will say there is a reason to compare further down the list...

 

To be fair here is first 10 games from Atarimania:

1	Rescue on Fractalus!	8.12
2	Yoomp!	                8.10
3	MULE	                8.10
4	Dropzone	        8.10
5	Animal Party	        8.10
6	International Karate	8.09
7	Boulder Dash	        8.05
8	Bruce Lee	        8.04
9	Eidolon (The)	        8.04

We have most of these... And none of those is a bad game...

We do miss Yoomp - but some of us are working on that subject

I don't know why but I don't miss Animal party at all... no offence but seems to me its on the list just because its something new and fresh...

[atariksi]

You are just desperately trying to find fault and don't consider TRUTH to be of any use. Your reply (taken as a whole) is self-contradictory. You should at least be consistent with yourself and also not cut out some things relevant to the point.

 

No, my reply taken as a whole (which it's not meant to be, there are multiple threads running simultaneously here) isn't contradictory at all;

...

Of course, it's just better looking not beautiful. Rubbish deleted. Stop twisting words. You have no idea what is Chewbacca defense nor the point that was being discussed.

 

It's correct interpretation and you said "sticking out like a sore thumb" not just sticking out.

 

Again, it's your interpretation and that's not the same thing at all. i've not denied that i said "like a sore thumb" and have given reasoning behind why that doesn't translate to being ugly; i'll say it again, feel free to hit your own thumb with a hammer until it's sore...

No need to vote as you just distorted things again. Some sprites sticking out like a sore thumb HAS NOTHING to do with someone literally hitting his thumb with a hammer. Sprites stick out like a sore thumb but it's not displeasing to the senses (def. ugly).

 

Unless you're reading "the carcass of a purple leather sofa" and believing that said sofa to have been alive at some point (in which case, get help... seriously!) i've never referred to a dead anything in this context

Sorry, that won't cut it.

 

The dictionary entry for the word "carcass" has definitions that have no relationship whatsoever to death so, ...

It's irrelevant to the point whether it's dead caracasses of a sofa of carcasses of a sofa. Both scenes are better with more color and more shading. Stop the distorting of simple logic. That's your ONLY choice to try to win the argument at the cost of the truth.

 

Who knows though, since it's all just theoretical the Mona Lisa might end up being more beautiful in the C64 palette since the resolution of a painting is higher than either the C64 or A8 can manage and we're talking about a truly exceptional artist.

Don't play dumb now. It's CHEWBACCA DEFENSE if you now change the argument to have resolution differences.

 

No, you're the one playing dumb; we were talking about having "the same artist paint the Mona Lisa with C64 palette" (your words, my emphasis) so i haven't changed anything and merely pointed out that a painting would be a significantly higher resolution than a C64....

 

Do you EVEN know what a controlled experiment is in science? Stop the bullcrap. To prove the point that the world is more beautiful with more colors and more shades cannot have other variables. And I can even argue your other point but since you are so dazed and confused I purposely didn't argue that point again (I did earlier in the thread if you care to have read it).

 

You misunderstood my point. I am not accepting your example that "the existence of which demonstrate that having more color isn't always a good thing generally." nor your claim: "Again, beauty is subjective, in the eye of the beholder, etc."

 

The phrase "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" is apparently believed to have been coined by Margaret Wolfe Hungerford in the 19th century, but the same sentiment exists in written works dating back to the third so you're arguing with them (a group which includes writers like Benjamin Franklin, William Shakespeare or John Lyly but there are many more) rather than me. Personally, i'm with Bill and Ben (flobadob) on this one.

 

They were before people started digitizing things and putting them in computers and nor were they talking about it in the context you ARE FORCING it into. So I am not arguing against them. You can have things that are objectively more beautiful. And there are other phrases which I can quote out of context like "beauty is skin deep". I guess when you watch beauty and the beast, you can mistake one to be the other but in reality it's only one way to look at it. You are in denial of reality if you think that having more colors and more shades does not make the world more beautiful.

[atariksi]

Formally there's no raster register nor a real interrupt, but it can check whether 'sprite 0' is being drawn at a certain moment. Many times some screen split is handled by this sprite 0 trick. F.e. in Super Mario Bros it is used to split the screen underneath the score bar, i.e. split the screen into zones with different scrolling properties. I still wonder why the NES doesn't have real timer or raster NMI/IRQ etc., in some sense it didn't learn from the previous machines on the market.

 

Y'know... i vagely wondered about screen splits on the NES and had assumed they were just large wait loops until roughly the right scanline. That's what i love about this thread, you can argue the subjectivity of beauty and learn cool stuff about 8-bits! =-)

 

Or you can word it as "argue the objectivity of beauty".