atariksi Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 C64 version is better and resembles arcade version more. In graphics... in some cases ... yes. But the gameplay of the A8 version is simply great. I second that emotion. The A8 version ROCKS! I have one or more Arcade Compiliations on (much) newer systems - like Konami classics (could be wrong, something like that) and YES THE GRAPHICS ARE ARCADE PERFECT but you won't catch me playing them because the control sucks - gameplay licks taint. The A8 version has almost fluid-like intuitive control to it when keeping the ship moving in a circle if you so intend. I was all excited when I got these compilation(s) and SO disappointed when I played them. So who cares about arcade graphics? ... That's just a stupid thing to say "arcade graphics" when the smooth motion is more significant for a game like this. I'm not sure I understand your criticism. I was saying exactly that; re-read above where you quoted me. I said even though the graphics were perfect the control sucks, the gameplay licks taint, that I was disappointed, and even ended with "who cares about arcade graphics?" What is it that we disagree on in this regard, and what is indeed stupid about that? The above statements appear congruous. I was agreeing with you that who cares about arcade graphics. I was referring to those who think "arcade graphics" makes it the better game. The looks aren't that significant given it falls short in other aspects which are more significant in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atariksi Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 Stop looking at screen shots and go play the game. In fast action games, the frame rate is more significant than what the screen looks like when you pause it. I don't recall C64 version having a pause. By your logic, the PC version of pac-man is superior to Atari version because it uses 320*200 although it plays like a piece of crap. You can go blind with the C64 palette but not with this game's excellent color useage. Man, you've not even begun to understand my logic.. You simply assume things again.. Sorry, but as a programmer I can't overlook certain things, my brain just doesn't allow me to when playing.. If something niggles me about a game technically then no matter how good the gameplay is or the graphics, that niggle will still eat away at me and take away some of the enjoyment of it.. If the platform wasn't capable of something better then it'd be no problem.. It is, therefore it's a bloody poor job in my opinion.. And anyway, I don't recall the arcade verison have a pause either, so by your logic, that makes the Atari version even better than the arcade But I'm comparing Atari version to C64 version not to arcade version. So that's another feature missing on C64 version. But I wasn't making that a significant point-- "I don't recall it having a pause" meaning when the graphics do matter (in paused state), it would be good to have the pause feature. Yes, my logic is correct and nothing is being assumed in stating that early PC versions of Pac-man which flicker and use higher resolution are STILL inferior to A8 pacman. So you are complaining about A8 not being able to do 320*200 not about this game? It can do 320*200, but it SHOULD not be done at cost of the frame rate or the excellent color useage that the game has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 I advice you to open a new topic / thread for this project. When discussing this stuff here, it will get lost in the war. Anyway, the screenshot looks nice. Good job. Nah, anything i need from here gets cut and pasted to a text file so i don't lose it and the "project" itself was something of a joke really and is still only 24 hours old anyway since i haven't had time to look at it since Monday. When it gets to a more mature stage (or if the real project i was planning that uses similar techniques, has a better sprite engine and doesn't arse around trying to throw as many colours as possible into frame at once starts coming together because i reckon that'll be a far better game) i might open a new thread then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atariksi Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 I think it's bad coding on the C64 part-- the coder couldn't find the hardware collision registers he needed or which colors to switch to after every scene. This game shows the excellent use of colors between levels-- variety is the spice of life. They were better off cropping the game and getting to a faster frame rate to avoid the flicker-- probably the software collision detection overhead contributed to the flicker. Not again with the collision mouse-crap.. If you've multiplexed your sprites, you'll be picking up the collision register at the end of each visible sprite anyway.. In this scenario you can use the collision registers as they were intended to be used and they provide all the information you need.. You know the displayed on screen vertical order, hence it's a simple bit operation, some modulo maths and an indexing operation to determine the collision since sprites are only finitely tall ... In fact, if we really think about it when players are being used as overlays to software sprites the hardware collision is pretty much useless since you might not be able to construct the collision shape you require given your graphics approach without it looking a bit spazzy.. Unless you go for the standard Atari one colour sprites, in which case they work as advertised on the packet, but unfortunately your game is firmly back in VCS-Land graphics-wise, umm, except the VCS players are usually a wee bit more colourful I don't have the source code to the C64 version to say what overhead the collision detection is contributing to causing the flicker so I stated "probably the software collision detection contributed to the flicker". And it was stated with a bit of humor (he couldn't find the hardware collision registers). Hardware collision is still superior to software collision detection and even if you don't use it, it's still good to have it since software is an option on both machines. As far as overlays preventing collision detection, well there's 60 bits of collision detection so if you don't use all the players/missiles for the overlays, you still have a lot of combinations left over. And if players and overlays are in a split-screen, then you have all the collision detection hardware available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 But you just or the results of all 4 together as you read them, before clearing, and that's what gets stored on a per sprite collision basis.. That'd make things a bit easier, but i'd still have to stash the results of player 2 and 3's collisions for the five zones and then check them to work out which is lighting up. As it stands i check once at the end of a refresh and, if the bits are set, use bounding boxes to check what actually hit where and i'd much rather have that as a constant load rather than the occasional jump in resources. I thought LMS was only 3 cycles cost ? I'm quite happy to lose 696 cycles for a simple life It is and that's a lot of cycles!! =-) Like i said it's not optimal, but it's probably going to be the most practical solution in the long run. Oh, i tried what i was talking about with the colour splitting whilst on my lunch break; i can split all four player colours on a scanline with a 32 byte wide playfield (with horizontal scrolling enabled) but can't go to 40 bytes wide because the second LMS causes one of the colour splits to happen during the screen. Of course, it's a tiny area but the part-time perfectionist in me just isn't happy knowing it'd be there... How's that triggered ? A fixed kernel or regions or interrupts ? Fixed kernel, it's messy and i can probably improve it (i'm not sure how much by, but i'll haver a play later today) but i had thirty minutes to stuff a sandwich into the appropriate orifice and mess around. =-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarian63 Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 a non answer from Rockford .. it figures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarian63 Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 (edited) OK I don't see what the fuss is about, there is clearly no difference between both version using VICE or Win800plus. The only differences are sound (personal preference) and that you need to be slightly more accurate shooting the ships in the centre of the screen on the C64 version, possibly because it is running in a slightly higher resolution. There is the odd bit of flicker on the C64 version but this could be a sync issue on PC monitor/50hz PAL emulation of a C64. BUT on the A8 version (and I have two different copies of ATRs one with a trainer and one original dump) the enemy ships swarm around the screen at two thirds the speed of either the C64 or the Arcade version on MAME so clearly it is not exactly like the arcade as the ships move too slowly making perfect hits on the bonus stages on A8 a lot easier. So on has an interlace type effect and one runs the enemy ships at 66% of original speed. Hardly a slam dunk either way...pretty much 1:1 if you consider these faults compared to the Arcade. I can see nothing more than personal preference between the A8 and C64 version myself so unless anyone has a technical explicit issue to add that's how it's staying for me. And yes I know the arcade version very well and play it often but just played that too on MAME in succession. All games were played using one identical controller and I ended up on the same level on all three games with just 2 goes on each for fairness. Just to remind everybody...wasn't it atarian63 who first put forward the nonsensical thesis that A8 version of Gyruss is better and closer to arcade ? :D There was the movie on youtube too LOL What's more funny, he still sticks to it considering you have nothing in your possession to compare gyruss with, it is pretty humorous that you keep on with this line after you have lost.As many others here have said the A8 is closer to the Arcade. Edited September 30, 2009 by atarian63 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarian63 Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 [ The C64ers must be very saddened by the fact they have him to defend Commodore 64. I've got plenty of popcorn Fuuny! Yes I look forward to ol Rockford each day. It's fun to jab a stick into his cage and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarian63 Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 It's time to leave atarian fantasy land and return to reality 29 - GYRUSS C64 C64 C64 The C64 plays more smoothly and has better music, sprites, graphics in hi-res, in which it resembles arcade version (on C64 everything is near arcade perfect: displays, proportions of ships, death sequence - check out the last picture and compare). The Atari version has graphics in low-res (strange colours as always ) and chunky, deformed sprites - very often it's hard to distinguish asteroids from alien ships If you don't believe PLAY INSTEAD OF WATCHING THEM C64 is better again ATARI ATARI ATARI ARCADE VERSION The colors of your Atari screenshots are very inaccurate. Blame Atari sites (like atarimania or fandal), not me But you are the one, who compare games based on false facts (colors in this case) You are wrong again I always PLAY BOTH VERSIONS (sometimes even more )However some atarians (like number 63 ) usually judge by pictures or movies on youtube :D But even when we assume that the colours are slightly different from what you see on screen (after all vivid pink and green stars always look hilarious ), it doesn't change the number of colors or the resolution. So, rest assured Buy the arcade and do some comparisons. You really don't listen do you... Now back to the cage with you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sack-c0s Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 When it gets to a more mature stage (or if the real project i was planning that uses similar techniques, has a better sprite engine and doesn't arse around trying to throw as many colours as possible into frame at once starts coming together because i reckon that'll be a far better game) i might open a new thread then... Can it be called 'look what the British C64 owner coded'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atariksi Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 It's time to leave atarian fantasy land and return to reality 29 - GYRUSS C64 C64 C64 The C64 plays more smoothly and has better music, sprites, graphics in hi-res, in which it resembles arcade version (on C64 everything is near arcade perfect: displays, proportions of ships, death sequence - check out the last picture and compare). The Atari version has graphics in low-res (strange colours as always ) and chunky, deformed sprites - very often it's hard to distinguish asteroids from alien ships If you don't believe PLAY INSTEAD OF WATCHING THEM C64 is better again ATARI ATARI ATARI ARCADE VERSION The colors of your Atari screenshots are very inaccurate. Blame Atari sites (like atarimania or fandal), not me But you are the one, who compare games based on false facts (colors in this case) You are wrong again I always PLAY BOTH VERSIONS (sometimes even more )However some atarians (like number 63 ) usually judge by pictures or movies on youtube :D But even when we assume that the colours are slightly different from what you see on screen (after all vivid pink and green stars always look hilarious ), it doesn't change the number of colors or the resolution. So, rest assured Buy the arcade and do some comparisons. You really don't listen do you... Now back to the cage with you I have no idea why he's complaining about the colors. Perhaps, he's stuck on one level and can't see the other colors or he's running an emulator on an EGA machine or he's wearing green glasses. And stars can have different colors: http://www.crystalinks.com/stars_size806.jpg Nor are the colors of the stars fixed in Gyruss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+wood_jl Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 reinstalled Windows??? get OS X... makes life easier... one stress factor less... reduce complexity of life... (oops... that's why we are coding 8bit machines... to INCrease complexity of life... ) That's why I keep using Windows. I still wonder what people do to have "stress" or anything else with Windows. Handling 8-bits has something "puzzle" like. Let's see, if we can get another puzzle finished All you have to do to live with Windows is get Norton Ghost - I use 2003 - before they rebranded some other company's program (Drive Image??) as the new bloated Ghost - and just GHOST prophylactically to an external (USB) hard drive - and occasionally to DVD. I've been doing this for years, and when it get fouled up - or if I just suspect ANYTHING I just reload the image and everything is fixed. Also if I install some crap software I don't want anymore, I don't have to worry about uninstall - I may try to uninstall, knowing I have a backup option of re-image. I haven't had a Windows problem in YEARS since I've been doing this. Put in the DVD (and/or plug in hard drive) and go make a sandwich - or take a shit - whichever you feel inclined to do at the moment - and come back and BAM!! Everything's as you'd like it - everything's installed. Maybe only a few of the last Windows updates to D/L. Why they haven't incorporated this as a part of Windows is beyond me. Perhaps they don't want the support issues of newbies screwing with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+wood_jl Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 (edited) Hey you rabid Commodore users.... Let's see some of these allegedly superior games! Post links to some D64s of Gyruss, Gaplus, Qbert...the stuff that this thread has been about lately. I have a 64/1541 Ultimate sitting right here and I can't wait to make a comparison! Better yet, put them in an attachment in a reply. Let's see some of this alleged superiority!! Edited September 30, 2009 by wood_jl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popmilo Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 Hey you rabid Commodore users.... Let's see some of these allegedly superior games! Post links to some D64s of Gyruss, Gaplus, Qbert...the stuff that this thread has been about lately. I have a 64/1541 Ultimate sitting right here and I can't wait to make a comparison! Better yet, put them in an attachment in a reply. Let's see some of this alleged superiority!! Take your pick: http://c64.hardwired.hu/ I'm not saying all are better then A8 games! p.s. Load up Mayhem in monsterland, and Turrican 2 to see why are we so rabid about them... Problem is you have to play them long enough to reach further levels where games really show what C64 can do.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym00 Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 Hey you rabid Commodore users.... Let's see some of these allegedly superior games! Post links to some D64s of Gyruss, Gaplus, Qbert...the stuff that this thread has been about lately. I have a 64/1541 Ultimate sitting right here and I can't wait to make a comparison! Better yet, put them in an attachment in a reply. Let's see some of this alleged superiority!! Don't pin any high hopes on Gaplus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oky2000 Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 OK I don't see what the fuss is about, there is clearly no difference between both version using VICE or Win800plus. The only differences are sound (personal preference) and that you need to be slightly more accurate shooting the ships in the centre of the screen on the C64 version, possibly because it is running in a slightly higher resolution. There is the odd bit of flicker on the C64 version but this could be a sync issue on PC monitor/50hz PAL emulation of a C64. And yes I know the arcade version very well and play it often but just played that too on MAME in succession. All games were played using one identical controller and I ended up on the same level on all three games with just 2 goes on each for fairness. I can see nothing more than personal preference between the A8 and C64 version myself so unless anyone has a technical explicit issue to add that's how it's staying for me. needs to be played on REAL hardware including the arcade version. MAME is really off for most arcade systems that is why I don't do mame and just buy the actual arcade game,emulators just dont cut it. As for preference,when played on actual hardware and comparing to the actual arcade. A8 is closer and better. Sorry but emulating an 80s 8bit arcade machine (ie Gyruss) has nothing to do with emulation accuracy at the basic level of game speed/playability...so that's just rubbish...A8 enemy ships move more slowly and C64 ones have a slight flicker when the screen is full (which doesn't affect collision detection), A8 graphics are LOWER REZ and also easier to shoot at the centre of the screen due to low resolution of playfield but C64 enemies need more accuracy to shoot them just like the arcade. Sound isn't going to improve nor are the graphics even on real hardware as is neither the speed of the enemy ships circling you. This is not a $6000 SEGA 64bit 3D wunderkind arcade game we are talking about on MAME either it's a game that has been perfect since 1999 on MAME .37 I own some old arcade boards but not Gyruss BUT all of the ones I do own are identical on MAME (Skramble, Donkey Kong, Commando etc) and if there is a problem with any game in some way it is mentioned and noted (until resolved) at mamedev central too, colour accuracy problems were the only ones ever mentioned for Gyruss and that was resolve a decade ago. Game logic...therefore core gameplay...is identical. And I am using a proper microswitched arcade controller to play the game on ALL THREE versions too so that's the 'play it on arcade not mame' comment stuffed now Easier to shoot enemies due to slower movement and lower resolution of graphics requiring less accuracy != closer to the arcade. Neither version is particularly shit OR stunning so again like I say it is definitely no slam dunk either way, personal preference. I suspect some of the 'me too' rabid fanboys are not even playing Mame/A8/C64 together let alone own the real arcade (which means nothing except controller input differences ie crappy PC pads) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarian63 Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 OK I don't see what the fuss is about, there is clearly no difference between both version using VICE or Win800plus. The only differences are sound (personal preference) and that you need to be slightly more accurate shooting the ships in the centre of the screen on the C64 version, possibly because it is running in a slightly higher resolution. There is the odd bit of flicker on the C64 version but this could be a sync issue on PC monitor/50hz PAL emulation of a C64. And yes I know the arcade version very well and play it often but just played that too on MAME in succession. All games were played using one identical controller and I ended up on the same level on all three games with just 2 goes on each for fairness. I can see nothing more than personal preference between the A8 and C64 version myself so unless anyone has a technical explicit issue to add that's how it's staying for me. needs to be played on REAL hardware including the arcade version. MAME is really off for most arcade systems that is why I don't do mame and just buy the actual arcade game,emulators just dont cut it. As for preference,when played on actual hardware and comparing to the actual arcade. A8 is closer and better. Sorry but emulating an 80s 8bit arcade machine (ie Gyruss) has nothing to do with emulation accuracy at the basic level of game speed/playability...so that's just rubbish...A8 enemy ships move more slowly and C64 ones have a slight flicker when the screen is full (which doesn't affect collision detection), A8 graphics are LOWER REZ and also easier to shoot at the centre of the screen due to low resolution of playfield but C64 enemies need more accuracy to shoot them just like the arcade. Sound isn't going to improve nor are the graphics even on real hardware as is neither the speed of the enemy ships circling you. This is not a $6000 SEGA 64bit 3D wunderkind arcade game we are talking about on MAME either it's a game that has been perfect since 1999 on MAME .37 I own some old arcade boards but not Gyruss BUT all of the ones I do own are identical on MAME (Skramble, Donkey Kong, Commando etc) and if there is a problem with any game in some way it is mentioned and noted (until resolved) at mamedev central too, colour accuracy problems were the only ones ever mentioned for Gyruss and that was resolve a decade ago. Game logic...therefore core gameplay...is identical. And I am using a proper microswitched arcade controller to play the game on ALL THREE versions too so that's the 'play it on arcade not mame' comment stuffed now Easier to shoot enemies due to slower movement and lower resolution of graphics requiring less accuracy != closer to the arcade. Neither version is particularly shit OR stunning so again like I say it is definitely no slam dunk either way, personal preference. I suspect some of the 'me too' rabid fanboys are not even playing Mame/A8/C64 together let alone own the real arcade (which means nothing except controller input differences ie crappy PC pads) Thatis just crap. try googling RGVAC or KLOV forums and see what arcade collectors have to say about mame, it's inaccurate and sounds are usually off. Emulators are great for simplicity and cheapness however they are playing a close copy,not the real deal. Also there are other emulation boards like 48-1 and 60 in 1 boards, I can tell you having several of the actual machines the sounds are off and so is gameplay. Usable and plays fine but off, even early games like 79-80. Also what could be more arcade than ATARI! Also I am not saying the c64 version is crap. I am saying A8 is better. It was used as an example from the period to show the progression of c64 from earlier software during the time when Atari 8 was still dominant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarian63 Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 (edited) It's time to leave atarian fantasy land and return to reality 29 - GYRUSS C64 C64 C64 The C64 plays more smoothly and has better music, sprites, graphics in hi-res, in which it resembles arcade version (on C64 everything is near arcade perfect: displays, proportions of ships, death sequence - check out the last picture and compare). The Atari version has graphics in low-res (strange colours as always ) and chunky, deformed sprites - very often it's hard to distinguish asteroids from alien ships If you don't believe PLAY INSTEAD OF WATCHING THEM C64 is better again ATARI ATARI ATARI ARCADE VERSION The colors of your Atari screenshots are very inaccurate. Blame Atari sites (like atarimania or fandal), not me But you are the one, who compare games based on false facts (colors in this case) You are wrong again I always PLAY BOTH VERSIONS (sometimes even more )However some atarians (like number 63 ) usually judge by pictures or movies on youtube :D But even when we assume that the colours are slightly different from what you see on screen (after all vivid pink and green stars always look hilarious ), it doesn't change the number of colors or the resolution. So, rest assured So... I must ask the obvious question here... "Have you played Atari today"? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opVmjPGzBUg&feature=related Edited September 30, 2009 by atarian63 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oky2000 Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 OK I don't see what the fuss is about, there is clearly no difference between both version using VICE or Win800plus. The only differences are sound (personal preference) and that you need to be slightly more accurate shooting the ships in the centre of the screen on the C64 version, possibly because it is running in a slightly higher resolution. There is the odd bit of flicker on the C64 version but this could be a sync issue on PC monitor/50hz PAL emulation of a C64. And yes I know the arcade version very well and play it often but just played that too on MAME in succession. All games were played using one identical controller and I ended up on the same level on all three games with just 2 goes on each for fairness. I can see nothing more than personal preference between the A8 and C64 version myself so unless anyone has a technical explicit issue to add that's how it's staying for me. needs to be played on REAL hardware including the arcade version. MAME is really off for most arcade systems that is why I don't do mame and just buy the actual arcade game,emulators just dont cut it. As for preference,when played on actual hardware and comparing to the actual arcade. A8 is closer and better. Sorry but emulating an 80s 8bit arcade machine (ie Gyruss) has nothing to do with emulation accuracy at the basic level of game speed/playability...so that's just rubbish...A8 enemy ships move more slowly and C64 ones have a slight flicker when the screen is full (which doesn't affect collision detection), A8 graphics are LOWER REZ and also easier to shoot at the centre of the screen due to low resolution of playfield but C64 enemies need more accuracy to shoot them just like the arcade. Sound isn't going to improve nor are the graphics even on real hardware as is neither the speed of the enemy ships circling you. This is not a $6000 SEGA 64bit 3D wunderkind arcade game we are talking about on MAME either it's a game that has been perfect since 1999 on MAME .37 I own some old arcade boards but not Gyruss BUT all of the ones I do own are identical on MAME (Skramble, Donkey Kong, Commando etc) and if there is a problem with any game in some way it is mentioned and noted (until resolved) at mamedev central too, colour accuracy problems were the only ones ever mentioned for Gyruss and that was resolve a decade ago. Game logic...therefore core gameplay...is identical. And I am using a proper microswitched arcade controller to play the game on ALL THREE versions too so that's the 'play it on arcade not mame' comment stuffed now Easier to shoot enemies due to slower movement and lower resolution of graphics requiring less accuracy != closer to the arcade. Neither version is particularly shit OR stunning so again like I say it is definitely no slam dunk either way, personal preference. I suspect some of the 'me too' rabid fanboys are not even playing Mame/A8/C64 together let alone own the real arcade (which means nothing except controller input differences ie crappy PC pads) Thatis just crap. try googling RGVAC or KLOV forums and see what arcade collectors have to say about mame, it's inaccurate and sounds are usually off. Emulators are great for simplicity and cheapness however they are playing a close copy,not the real deal. Also there are other emulation boards like 48-1 and 60 in 1 boards, I can tell you having several of the actual machines the sounds are off and so is gameplay. Usable and plays fine but off, even early games like 79-80. Also what could be more arcade than ATARI! Also I am not saying the c64 version is crap. I am saying A8 is better. It was used as an example from the period to show the progression of c64 from earlier software during the time when Atari 8 was still dominant. Both versions are fine IMO, all I am saying is sound is different on both (neither better than the other for arcade accuracy though again) just that the C64 has a tendency to look flickery at some point but plays at the right speed as far as movement of objects on screen goes the A8 doesn't look flickery but the enemies move about 2/3 speed of the arcade and shot accuracy shooting the distant ships in the centre of the screen is less critical....given those two facts it is impossible to conclude the A8 version plays more like the arcade version. I agree MAME isn't perfect but there are other emulator choices for old 80s games like Gyruss which in the past were better...like Sparcade for example. In the case of older simpler games and a reasonably up to date copy of MAME it isn't going to make much difference if you are comparing A8/C64 sound/graphics/gameply to the arcade thought still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atariksi Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 ... Thatis just crap. try googling RGVAC or KLOV forums and see what arcade collectors have to say about mame, it's inaccurate and sounds are usually off. Emulators are great for simplicity and cheapness however they are playing a close copy,not the real deal. Also there are other emulation boards like 48-1 and 60 in 1 boards, I can tell you having several of the actual machines the sounds are off and so is gameplay. Usable and plays fine but off, even early games like 79-80. Also what could be more arcade than ATARI! Also I am not saying the c64 version is crap. I am saying A8 is better. It was used as an example from the period to show the progression of c64 from earlier software during the time when Atari 8 was still dominant. I said that C64 version is crap compared to A8 version. I don't think speed of ships matter since it would be same update time (50/60Hz) regardless of what speed they moved at. Also, A8 version is 16K ROM cartridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarian63 Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 (edited) Both versions are fine IMO, all I am saying is sound is different on both (neither better than the other for arcade accuracy though again) just that the C64 has a tendency to look flickery at some point but plays at the right speed as far as movement of objects on screen goes the A8 doesn't look flickery but the enemies move about 2/3 speed of the arcade and shot accuracy shooting the distant ships in the centre of the screen is less critical....given those two facts it is impossible to conclude the A8 version plays more like the arcade version. I agree MAME isn't perfect but there are other emulator choices for old 80s games like Gyruss which in the past were better...like Sparcade for example. In the case of older simpler games and a reasonably up to date copy of MAME it isn't going to make much difference if you are comparing A8/C64 sound/graphics/gameply to the arcade thought still. Fair enough. Edited September 30, 2009 by atarian63 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarian63 Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 (edited) How about some other classics? Edited September 30, 2009 by atarian63 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 When it gets to a more mature stage (or if the real project i was planning that uses similar techniques, has a better sprite engine and doesn't arse around trying to throw as many colours as possible into frame at once starts coming together because i reckon that'll be a far better game) i might open a new thread then... Can it be called 'look what the British C64 owner coded'? You forgot the "wannabe" there... At the moment, it's been nicknamed War over Atariksia (at least that's what i have in the filenames and the header of the source file) with the planet in the title being the one with far too much colour about the place... i had a sort of back story that revolved around the garish nature of the place being used as an offensive weapon to enslave other races and the lone pilot thrown into battle being unable to see colour or something. And on other days, i've even been known to do "subtle". =-) Needs a soundtrack matey, you up for it? (Actually, do you fancy doing that cover of Zoomer for Lunar Blitz as well? =-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 Hey you rabid Commodore users.... [Ahem] Not quite so much of the rabid, thanks very much... Let's see some of these allegedly superior games! Post links to some D64s of Gyruss, Gaplus, Qbert...the stuff that this thread has been about lately. I have a 64/1541 Ultimate sitting right here and I can't wait to make a comparison! Better yet, put them in an attachment in a reply. Let's see some of this alleged superiority!! Well, i think Albert'd frown at people attaching C64 games to AA's forum... but everything we've mentioned previously is available from Gamebase64 as either D64 or T64 image files. Don't pin any high hopes on Gaplus Aww, i quite like it personally... although if i had to pick an Ash and Dave game i'd probably play Alloyrun personally, but that's just the kind of obsessive shoot 'em up fan i am. =-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym00 Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 Aww, i quite like it personally... although if i had to pick an Ash and Dave game i'd probably play Alloyrun personally, but that's just the kind of obsessive shoot 'em up fan i am. =-) It was all posh and all, and looked lovely, but it just didn't feel right to me (plus I can't abide that MoN music), somehow they just managed to miss something from it.. But then, maybe it's just me, as I don't rate Gaplus much anyway in that particular family tree, where-as Galaga is simply the dogs nadgers But all credit to you, picking Alloy Run is pretty obsessive.. And I guess Snowball Sunday doesn't technically count as a shoot'em up really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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