PeteD Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Matchpoint might be a better option as fire as the size of the sprites goes, the GC ones are a bit too big to be done with PMGs, but then all the GC graphics are available and possibly even the source. I've sent an email to the boss of the company where it was done because he was supposed to be sending me a CD a while ago with a lot of old code from our games (some of it from PDS development systems). Regarding graphics, I too think of something like Match Point. Regarding gameplay, I think GB Tennis is perfect. If you haven't already played with it, please try. GB Tennis is certainly the most fun Is it too "fun" though or is there enough difficulty for people to enjoy a challenge? Without playing it a lot I don't know. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irgendwer Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 30 - KENNY DALGLISH SOCCER MANAGER Back to the topic: KENNY DALGLISH SOCCER MANAGER: 6.5 Fighter Pilot: 6.9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym00 Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 (edited) Blablabla.... [snip] Seriously Emkay.. If you put half as much effort into maybe doing some programming for your beloved box as you do spouting forth absurdities here then who knows what you might have written by now.. Maybe not much, but who knows, but it'd give you at least an insight into the practical world that programmers have to work in rather than the lala land you clearly imagine.. I do think you need to can the attitude for a bit though.. You're being downright rude to people for absolutely no reason and it's really getting a bit repetitive now.. If I didn't know any better (maybe I don't!) I get the distinct feeling that you're unhappy that some people with a C64 history have dared to darken you machines hallowed registers ? I'm just curious why though ? And to get back on topic.. You've made it clear today that you seem to think that in 64 land it's all sweetness and light and fluffy bunnies and tweeting birds under the breadboxes case (which does question some of you previous statements in this thread, but we'll forget those eh.), but I think you might be very very much mistaken about how fluffy it is.. Your have to work for what you want on that machine, in some ways more than on the A8.. And the slower processor, some scrolling, plenty of interrupts and a few dozen sprites and some logic will soon put some real hairs on your chest, instead of the Merkins commonly found on and worn by the owners of certain other 6502 machines You really have no idea how easy you have it on the A8 in many departments.. So anyway, stop whinging like a gimp, and get programming for gods sake, after all you've spent the last 300 and wotsit pages telling us how it's better and I've even got my hands dirty through curiousity with a few things in mind, so I think it'd be a good show if you showed us what it can really do Edited October 1, 2009 by andym00 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven/TQA Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 hmm well heres me thinking we are discussing readily available graphics which some decent coder could turn into a viable atari great courts conversion. As sure as a Butterfly is made from mixing a fly with some butter... Oh damn, I'm sorry, if I'd know you were "special" I'd have been nicer to you. It seems some A8 users don't actually want any new games? Or maybe just don't want "C64 nerds" writing them? Pete yup.... we do not want games from the evil horde.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockford Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 And right at this moment Rocky Mountains has become the authority on cabs, actually lecturing owners of arcade machines. He obviously googled. Just give up on this guy. Arguing with him doesn't have any effect. I'd call this the "Oswald" effect. So, I'd like to propose everyone to stop replying to Rockford. It'll stop, as he is only here for malicious delight, nothing else. Did you ever see him posting in another topic, or even reading one? Did you ever hear someting sensible from him? Just to all: Ignore him! Shouldn't be too hard. First you wanted to ban me, then you begged, asking if anybody knew any games that looked better on A8 and now you are crying "ignore him". You are such a brave atarian, so, why don't you stop dawdling. It's so pathetic ! Yeah.... As said before, to me it's no problem if you just show the C64 pictures which are better. I can live with that. However, this thread was meant to DISCUSS the difference between A8 / C64 versions of a game, but it seems TROLLING is all you can do. I already feel compassion for you (see post 8043) if your life is boring enough to subscribe here and post (now) over 5 trolling messages every day, but I even feel more compassion for you if you don't see the difference between discussing and trolling . So, let anyone decide for himself here who of us two is pathetic And, all I do is warn others not to walk in this 'Rockford' trap. And it's no command to anyone. Anyone should decide by himself if he'd go on replying on your trolling, but maybe these are trolls also. About 'begging': I never begged for anything here, certainly not for "games that looked better on A8". That's another way to recognize a troll: Just throw around arguments, who cares if the arguments are true? And, another thing. I changed my mind. You shouldn't be banned, as otherwise you wouldn't have anything to do with your life Oh god, what a gibberish :!: I don't remember you writing such an elaborate dissertation when your fellow Atarians asking "aren't you dead yet?". So, who is trolling here ? BTW dude you worry about me more than i worry about myself LOL So, give me a break and do not come up with false accusations. I will be fine. Thank you in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockford Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 31 - WHO DARES WINS II C64 C64 C64 The C64 version has better animation, handling, scrolling and more colours. It also works more smoothly and handles more sprites. The Atari version works slower and handles only 5 sprites on screen. The A8 sprites have less frames of animation (enemy soldiers always run and never hide behind rocks, jumps from buildings etc.) On Atari many things were cut off (execution, soldiers with mortars), the scrolling is horrible and there is no black colour at all (not only in the pictures ) C64 shoots Atari again. ATARI ATARI ATARI 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popmilo Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Once again "Samobojcy" is good example for background graphic done in 16 shades of grey... Probably the best of it's kind in fact, but it proves our point about working in that pixel ratio rather neatly too; it's drawing on every other scanline and essentially "forcing" a 2:1 pixel ratio rather than 4:1 and that's significently easier to work with. Didn't think about it like that Because of screen switching, scrolling and gaps between lines it looks like two layers like these: Background layer: Sprite layer: Its a very neat trick... Makes background and sprites separate, resolution of pixels is 1x1 or 2x1 which is totally ok for editing... Also there is no double cpu time cost because of changing screens... I guess they made it in Greys because of flicker...? Would love to see something like that but in color... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irgendwer Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 (edited) 31 - WHO DARES WINS II WHO DARES WINS II: 7.5 F-15 Strike Eagle: 8 Edit: Please play it, it's sooo sllloooww on C64 and the horizon if tilted is a joke... Edited October 1, 2009 by Irgendwer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thealgorithm Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Each machine has their advantages. No point mentioning which machine is better and comparing game versions. Just because one version of a game is worse it mainly only falls down to the programmer not utilising the machine properly to its advantage. Advantage that C64 has ofcourse is that programmers have learnt to exploit and expand its capability in comparison with the Atari machines. I believe the Atari has potential. Not taking any sides here, I know the c64's features and limitations and i am sure the Atari has things to offer as well but not known for the time being. Even though c64's palette is limited to 16 colors, I have yet to find one of the finest atari pictures that looks as good or better than the c64 offering. MUSC, NUFLI etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popmilo Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 What's not needed is some strategical "hey I'm gonna do some stuff for you" just for the cause of beeing fraudulent with a smile. Obviously only TMR is doing some useful stuff for the Atari. All other C64 contingent is just writing useless crap even in the forums. I don't await some useful stuff from people who can handle just the straight logics of coding on the C64. Thank you for your trust in our coding skills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analmux Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Also there is no double cpu time cost because of changing screens... But there is some (significant part of) CPU lost for changing GPRIOR register every scanline. The GTIA mode lines are interleaved with normal graphics. Thus we need LDA #$00 STA GPRIOR ... LDA #$40 STA GPRIOR ...(cycle back) every 2 scanlines. When using a kernel it will take many cpu time. Using DLI a lot less. Using Timer IRQ again somewhat less, but still a significant amount. Also notice that PMs are used to overlay the gfx lines inbetween the sprite lines. But, in case of doing this all with real software sprites, cpu usage will be far worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 I guess they made it in Greys because of flicker...? Would love to see something like that but in color... The sprites could be different colours to the playfield, that'd be interesting... but i think that'd have "side effects", generating colours in a similar way to how APAC does. But there is some (significant part of) CPU lost for changing GPRIOR register every scanline. The GTIA mode lines are interleaved with normal graphics. Thus we need LDA #$00 STA GPRIOR ... LDA #$40 STA GPRIOR ...(cycle back) every 2 scanlines. When using a kernel it will take many cpu time. Using DLI a lot less. Using Timer IRQ again somewhat less, but still a significant amount. i haven't looked, which is this using... totally guessing from the refresh speed here, but i'd have thought a kernel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popmilo Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Also there is no double cpu time cost because of changing screens... But there is some (significant part of) CPU lost for changing GPRIOR register every scanline. The GTIA mode lines are interleaved with normal graphics. Thus we need LDA #$00 STA GPRIOR ... LDA #$40 STA GPRIOR ...(cycle back) every 2 scanlines. When using a kernel it will take many cpu time. Using DLI a lot less. Using Timer IRQ again somewhat less, but still a significant amount. Also notice that PMs are used to overlay the gfx lines inbetween the sprite lines. But, in case of doing this all with real software sprites, cpu usage will be far worse. Yes... There is that cpu cost... But at least you have to update only every second line of background... And its only 32 bytes wide GTIA screen with 96=192/2 lines (96*32=3072 bytes...) Not much to get 16 shaded scrolling background... Two interleaving full size screens would need 4 times that... 12k-16k of bytes... But, maybe... if Amstrad could manipulate 16k graphic memory... maybe A8 could too ? Sprite layer is made from 4 color graphic mode with software sprites + PM black graphic for giving black edge to ships...(you can see those 2x1 black pixels on the separated background picture). They used EOR for erasing sprites ... But PMs are also the reason why the game is in BW... Color of PMs would mix with color registers of gtia and would make strange effects ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oky2000 Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Once again "Samobojcy" is good example for background graphic done in 16 shades of grey... Probably the best of it's kind in fact, but it proves our point about working in that pixel ratio rather neatly too; it's drawing on every other scanline and essentially "forcing" a 2:1 pixel ratio rather than 4:1 and that's significently easier to work with. Didn't think about it like that Because of screen switching, scrolling and gaps between lines it looks like two layers like these: Background layer: Sprite layer: Its a very neat trick... Makes background and sprites separate, resolution of pixels is 1x1 or 2x1 which is totally ok for editing... Also there is no double cpu time cost because of changing screens... I guess they made it in Greys because of flicker...? Would love to see something like that but in color... I don't see what everyone is getting excited about. That thing looks absolutely horrible in motion, like a 16 shade black and white VCS shootemup. I don't care technically what it is making the A8 chipset do but it simply a migraine on a chip bleurghh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oky2000 Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 (edited) 31 - WHO DARES WINS II WHO DARES WINS II: 7.5 F-15 Strike Eagle: 8 Edit: Please play it, it's sooo sllloooww on C64 and the horizon if tilted is a joke... I'd rather play something fun like Skyfox Edited October 1, 2009 by oky2000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMR Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 I don't see what everyone is getting excited about. That thing looks absolutely horrible in motion, like a 16 shade black and white VCS shootemup. I don't care technically what it is making the A8 chipset do but it simply a migraine on a chip bleurghh It's a preview and something of a proof of concept i expect; there are already some rather smart ideas in there and, if the splitting is done with a kernel, it could very likely be sped up to make things work at a higher refresh speed. It came up because that's probably the best example of using GTIA graphics within an action game... so far. [Evil grin =-] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarian63 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 And right at this moment Rocky Mountains has become the authority on cabs, actually lecturing owners of arcade machines. He obviously googled. Just give up on this guy. Arguing with him doesn't have any effect. I'd call this the "Oswald" effect. So, I'd like to propose everyone to stop replying to Rockford. It'll stop, as he is only here for malicious delight, nothing else. Did you ever see him posting in another topic, or even reading one? Did you ever hear someting sensible from him? Just to all: Ignore him! Shouldn't be too hard. First you wanted to ban me, then you begged, asking if anybody knew any games that looked better on A8 and now you are crying "ignore him". You are such a brave atarian, so, why don't you stop dawdling. It's so pathetic ! Yeah.... As said before, to me it's no problem if you just show the C64 pictures which are better. I can live with that. However, this thread was meant to DISCUSS the difference between A8 / C64 versions of a game, but it seems TROLLING is all you can do. I already feel compassion for you (see post 8043) if your life is boring enough to subscribe here and post (now) over 5 trolling messages every day, but I even feel more compassion for you if you don't see the difference between discussing and trolling . So, let anyone decide for himself here who of us two is pathetic And, all I do is warn others not to walk in this 'Rockford' trap. And it's no command to anyone. Anyone should decide by himself if he'd go on replying on your trolling, but maybe these are trolls also. About 'begging': I never begged for anything here, certainly not for "games that looked better on A8". That's another way to recognize a troll: Just throw around arguments, who cares if the arguments are true? And, another thing. I changed my mind. You shouldn't be banned, as otherwise you wouldn't have anything to do with your life Oh god, what a gibberish :!: I don't remember you writing such an elaborate dissertation when your fellow Atarians asking "aren't you dead yet?". So, who is trolling here ? BTW dude you worry about me more than i worry about myself LOL So, give me a break and do not come up with false accusations. I will be fine. Thank you in advance Aren't you dead yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarian63 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 (edited) 31 - WHO DARES WINS II C64 C64 C64 The C64 version has better animation, handling, scrolling and more colours. It also works more smoothly and handles more sprites. The Atari version works slower and handles only 5 sprites on screen. The A8 sprites have less frames of animation (enemy soldiers always run and never hide behind rocks, jumps from buildings etc.) On Atari many things were cut off (execution, soldiers with mortars), the scrolling is horrible and there is no black colour at all (not only in the pictures ) C64 shoots Atari again. ATARI ATARI ATARI Looks like a 1983 commodore version. must have been a c64 programmer trying to write atari games. Edited October 2, 2009 by atarian63 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarian63 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 (edited) Mr Do! Atari 800, very nice,smooth,detailed char. Very close to the arcade.I own this arcade machine for comparison. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vt8GBlgjMaU&feature=related C64 version has the sound all wrong, poorly done enemies,dull title screen Atari version is much closer. A nice conversion! Edited October 2, 2009 by atarian63 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atarian63 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 A game called Timeslip Don't know much about it but sure looks colorful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potatohead Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Thanks for some insight into that shooter proof of concept. I wonder if it were done in NTSC, whether or not there would be color artifacts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 Seriously Emkay.. Please don't use the word serious and then write this heap of braincrap. Thanks. Unbelievable, how far you're away from reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oky2000 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 (edited) Mr Do! Atari 800, very nice,smooth,detailed char. Very close to the arcade.I own this arcade machine for comparison. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vt8GBlgjMaU&feature=related C64 version has the sound all wrong, poorly done enemies,dull title screen Atari version is much closer. A nice conversion! Oh I certainly agree with the official Mr Do being well below the C64's capabilities....but luckily there are at least 2 other unofficial versions of this game done without a licence which are quite nice to play . And finally I've got a copy of how to insert youtube videos into the actual thread hooray! Edited October 2, 2009 by oky2000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oky2000 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 I don't see what everyone is getting excited about. That thing looks absolutely horrible in motion, like a 16 shade black and white VCS shootemup. I don't care technically what it is making the A8 chipset do but it simply a migraine on a chip bleurghh It's a preview and something of a proof of concept i expect; there are already some rather smart ideas in there and, if the splitting is done with a kernel, it could very likely be sped up to make things work at a higher refresh speed. It came up because that's probably the best example of using GTIA graphics within an action game... so far. [Evil grin =-] Ahh maybe so but I really don't like it personally so I'll pass on anything that does that to my eyes...it's worse than the flicker of Gyruss on the C64 by a factor of 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oky2000 Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 31 - WHO DARES WINS II WHO DARES WINS II: 7.5 F-15 Strike Eagle: 8 Edit: Please play it, it's sooo sllloooww on C64 and the horizon if tilted is a joke... Probably is...they did Solo Flight too on A8 and C64 I remember. There are better 3D coders though like Vektor Graphix who did Fighter Bomber for Activision which is better optimised and no slouch at all for a 1mhz machine. (there's no youtube video of it and I couldn't be bothered to make one and upload it at breakfast time ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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