FastRobPlus Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 The Atari v Commodore thread got me thinking. There are a lot of VCS/A8/Amiga/Lynx enthusiasts on AtariAge, but due to the name of the site we seem to be artificially excluding the Amiga from our retro nostalgia discussions because it was manufactured by Commodore. The Amiga forums out on the web actually have little retro Amiga discussion today. Many are focused around Amiga OS for power PC processors, the future of Amiga Inc holding company, and other things that I suspect retro enthusiasts don't care about. There’s very little actual discussion about the early days of Amiga or the gaming scene. I’d love for AA to be a one stop web destination to talk about Jay Miner’s VCS, Atari 800, and Amiga. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 I think an Amiga forum may have merit, giving its relation to the Atari 2600, Atari 8-bit and Lynx. Not sure how much use it would get, though, given people may not be expecting an Amiga forum on an Atari-centric site. I personally did not own an Amiga "back in the day", being an "Atari" guy myself (who stuck through with the ST line). However, I did think they were damn cool and if I could have afforded one I surely would have owned one. Now I have a few Amigas, although they are sadly boxed up. Would be fun to hook them up and play with one of them (I believe I have a few Amiga 500's, don't think I have a 1000, and I know I don't have a 2000, 3000 or 4000.. ) ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriorisabouttodie Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 The Atari v Commodore thread got me thinking. There are a lot of VCS/A8/Amiga/Lynx enthusiasts on AtariAge, but due to the name of the site we seem to be artificially excluding the Amiga from our retro nostalgia discussions because it was manufactured by Commodore. The Amiga forums out on the web actually have little retro Amiga discussion today. Many are focused around Amiga OS for power PC processors, the future of Amiga Inc holding company, and other things that I suspect retro enthusiasts don't care about. There’s very little actual discussion about the early days of Amiga or the gaming scene. I’d love for AA to be a one stop web destination to talk about Jay Miner’s VCS, Atari 800, and Amiga. Thoughts? That's an excellent idea. The Amiga really was the true successor to Atari's 8bit line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 I could see making an "Other Systems" main forum with sub-forums, but putting non-Atari systems on the main page would be messy. Where do you stop? Should there also be a Vic-20, C64, TI99/4, Spectrum, etc. main forum? In any case, I don't expect an Amiga forum on AtariAge would ever get much traffic. -Bry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 I could see making an "Other Systems" main forum with sub-forums, but putting non-Atari systems on the main page would be messy. Where do you stop? Should there also be a Vic-20, C64, TI99/4, Spectrum, etc. main forum? Yes, it is a slippery slope--once I add one non-Atari system to the mix, then I'll get calls to add others.. I wouldn't mind adding additional forums of this nature, but if they don't get much traffic then I don't really see the purpose of it. You could easily end up with forums for: - Commodore 64/128 - TI 99/4a - Apple II - Intellivision - ColecoVision - Vectrex - Odyssey 2 - NES ..among others (please don't feel slighted if I left your favorite system off the above list). Historically at least the Amiga does have strong ties to other Atari systems and the company itself.. ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastRobPlus Posted December 10, 2008 Author Share Posted December 10, 2008 Honestly, I would not expect an Amiga forum to get tons of traffic. But that's okay. I think we would see mainly topic around games, graphics, and the custom chip design & engineering. While that might not sound like a lot of posting, it would likely be as much or more for those topics than you see on the large Amiga sites, which as I mentioned are mainly centered around discussing the future of the Amiga OS and ‘next-gen’ Amiga platform development (PPC, x86) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyace Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Why not put it in the general area - there is a modern gaming forum there already Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Why not put it in the general area - there is a modern gaming forum there already I'd probably rename "Classic Gaming General" to "Classic Systems" and rename "Modern Gaming" to "Modern Systems". I could then put an Amiga forum inside "Classic Systems". ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Hi there, The only way I could see it it would be be a forum titled direct decendent of the Atari 8 bit, which we all know the Amiga to be in fact. The whole idea that the Amiga was at all commodore was kind of incredible... anyone looking at the machines insides would have argued and possibly won in court that Atari's intellectual rights were stolen... by the designers themselves. I seriously laugh even to this day about the whole Jack and Sam Tram flim flam that was allowed to take place back then. In any event that whole sham seriously wounded both companies. Tram's got some bux but not nearly what the could have had the whole sordid affair never happened. Imagine where we would be today lol. The two companies whould have merged. What could have been? I could see making an "Other Systems" main forum with sub-forums, but putting non-Atari systems on the main page would be messy. Where do you stop? Should there also be a Vic-20, C64, TI99/4, Spectrum, etc. main forum? Yes, it is a slippery slope--once I add one non-Atari system to the mix, then I'll get calls to add others.. I wouldn't mind adding additional forums of this nature, but if they don't get much traffic then I don't really see the purpose of it. You could easily end up with forums for: - Commodore 64/128 - TI 99/4a - Apple II - Intellivision - ColecoVision - Vectrex - Odyssey 2 - NES ..among others (please don't feel slighted if I left your favorite system off the above list). Historically at least the Amiga does have strong ties to other Atari systems and the company itself.. ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sikor Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 For me - it isn't good idea. Amiga has own forums - here is atari forum and for me it is a place for atari, not amiga. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepax Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 I would like to see an Amiga subforum here. After all, I had to sell my expanded 130XE so I could afford the Amiga 600 back in the day. But worry not, I'm now a happy owner of a much more expanded 600XL (thanks Beetle!). There are a few native Amiga forums that I infrequently visit and sometimes they seem to be a bit hostile places... obviously there are still some militant guys out there who haven't managed to grow up during the last 15 years..... And since this is such a nice place (thanks Albert!) we could IMHO peacefully and happily dicuss the Atari and Amiga matters here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorfdbg Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Is this really a smart idea? While in fact I did much more programming on the Amiga than on the Atari, and I would certainly argue that the machines are very closely related, I don't think this is exactly the right place. If you are looking for Amiga forums, you will find them on the net. Besides that, it would attract much more of the CBM vs. Atari nonsense I personally do not care about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEtalGuy66 Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Yeah theres tons of AMIGA forums already out there. I personally think the AMIGA is an awesome machine, and the ST is crap by comparisson, but I think that theres a time & place for everything. This is an ATARI site, and like it or not, the AMIGA was produced & sold by Commodore. Also, while the AMIGA hardware was originally an ATARI funded project, done largely by ATARI 8-bit veteran engineers, the AMIGA's OS has nothing to do with ATARI, and nowadayze, the AMIGA community has been splintered about 50 different ways hardware-wise, so the OS is really the only thing resembling a common ground, and really that association only applies in a pretty loose sense. You could do a "Classic 68k AMIGA" forum, but even then, the relevance on an atari site is debatable considering the huge range of hardware that Commodore (not to mention third parties) developed/integrated into the platform over the years. I think it's better left to the AMIGA sites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastRobPlus Posted December 10, 2008 Author Share Posted December 10, 2008 (edited) Is this really a smart idea? While in fact I did much more programming on the Amiga than on the Atari, and I would certainly argue that the machines are very closely related, I don't think this is exactly the right place. If you are looking for Amiga forums, you will find them on the net. Besides that, it would attract much more of the CBM vs. Atari nonsense I personally do not care about. Two biggest Amiga forums I think are amiga org and amigaworld. Here are the hot topics there today: - The new case for SAM is coming - Someone should make a Cairo/Kiba-like dock for Amiga OS - Running AmiUpdate in the background - JVM - SAM440ep-flex Any news? - Can I transfer Sputnik-OS4 Bounty to OWB? - Papyrus Office - Whom has experience with ftpd? - Ubuntu on AmigaONE XE - FireWire stack for MorphOS is comming - Sam440 and USB. Does it work? - Pro video production on Amiga? - Time for AROS and Natami ? Yup. Ubuntu, Hyperion OS4, and SAM (new PPC motherboard that can run an Amiga alike OS(no custom chips or anything)) Talking about Jay, RJ, the Atari deal, Synapse and its fate, EAs early backing, cost reduction and production volumes, rare games, protos, early development, the Amiga company (Atari joyboard, Atari games, etc.), the famous January 1984 CES, etc. Not so much... You see those discussions from time to time... Just not often, and they are lost instantly to the din of the overwhelming x86 and PPC discussions. Edited December 10, 2008 by FastRobPlus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artlover Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 (edited) Not sure how much use it would get, though, given people may not be expecting an Amiga forum on an Atari-centric site. Yet there is a wrestling subforum on an Atari-centric site? Yes, it is a slippery slope--once I add one non-Atari system to the mix, then I'll get calls to add others.. - Commodore 64/128 - TI 99/4a - Apple II - Intellivision - ColecoVision - Vectrex - Odyssey 2 - NES What's wrong with that? I wouldn't mind adding additional forums of this nature, but if they don't get much traffic then I don't really see the purpose of it. Of course they don't get much traffic, they don't exist yet. But seriously, if you look around at the "general everything else goes here" forums, there are posts involving NES, Coleco, Intellivision, etc... But those forums kinda suck to sustain any interest because they also have posts like "my feet are different sizes". Is it really that big a deal to throw them out there for a while and see how it goes. If there is no interest after a period of time, remove them. But it's kind of unfair to just assume they won't have interest and not give it a chance at all. You also have to consider... While what you said about Atari-centric is a fair point, search engines are a little less discriminating. Atariage is hit by crawlers. I often find google links pointing directly to threads that matched my search. Some people here are having Intellivision problems (and posting here on an Atari site). Some Intillivision person not from here could be searching for something and get a hit linking them here. While that can happen now, what would the reaction be of an outsider comming here and seeing that it's just one post in a sea of randomness at a place with a massive focus towards one thing that isn't about that post. One might not feel welcome. Wouldn't waste the time to register and reply to offer help because they can see it as an off-topic post that isn't about what the site is about and would just be igorned. If you're going to allow non-atari talk, then you should make non-atari'ers feel welcome. Only having all the Atari related stuff in their own nice rooms and everyone else has to share the communal tent out in the back yard doesn't exactly accomplish that. Edited December 10, 2008 by Artlover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetboot Jack Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 (edited) AtariAge - it does what it says on the tin... This site is one of the broadest churches I have ever come across that maintains a sense of community yet has forums that cover other old systems (Classic Gaming General), Modern Gaming, Coin-Ops, and a whole host of general forums totally off-topic (Atari). If there is enough interest and willing for Amiga users, issues and threads to flourish in "Classic Gaming" or some other existing forum, then give 'em a subforum as and when there is enough critical mass... sTeVE Edited December 10, 2008 by Jetboot Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiassofT Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 I personally think the AMIGA is an awesome machine, and the ST is crap by comparisson, but I think that theres a time & place for everything. This is an ATARI site, and like it or not, the AMIGA was produced & sold by Commodore. Also, while the AMIGA hardware was originally an ATARI funded project, done largely by ATARI 8-bit veteran engineers, the AMIGA's OS has nothing to do with ATARI, and nowadayze, the AMIGA community has been splintered about 50 different ways hardware-wise, so the OS is really the only thing resembling a common ground, and really that association only applies in a pretty loose sense. You could do a "Classic 68k AMIGA" forum, but even then, the relevance on an atari site is debatable considering the huge range of hardware that Commodore (not to mention third parties) developed/integrated into the platform over the years. I think it's better left to the AMIGA sites. Full ACK. I'd say you really hit the point. Talking about Jay, RJ, the Atari deal, Synapse and its fate, EAs early backing, cost reduction and production volumes, rare games, protos, early development, the Amiga company (Atari joyboard, Atari games, etc.), the famous January 1984 CES, etc. Not so much... You see those discussions from time to time... Just not often, and they are lost instantly to the din of the overwhelming x86 and PPC discussions. Then I'd suggest you ask those Amiga forum admins to create a separate "classic Amiga" sub-forum. This would really make more sense. When I'm seeking for some special information I usually go to the dedicated forums/newsgroups/whatever, mainly because chances are higher that I get the desired information. The quality of discussions on non-dedicated forums/newsgroups/... is usually quite low and - for example - I really don't expect to find some linux gurus on a general PC site. so long, Hias Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganky Ghost Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 (edited) I personally think the AMIGA is an awesome machine, and the ST is crap by comparisson, but I think that theres a time & place for everything. lol. I bought an Atari 520ST back in 1988 or 1989 and sold it again like six months later. I installed an Atari ST emulator (hatari) on my Linux box last night and remembered why I got rid of the ST in the first place; it's plain awful. Jack Tramiel and company must have been on crack cocaine when they made the decision to go with the ST and unload their stake in the Amiga. I think the biggest selling point of the Atari ST line was the low price and the built in MIDI ports. Even that wasn't enough for diehard musicians like Rush's Geddy Lee, whom I recall having read describing the ST as junk. Let's hear it for the Mac Plus. lol. Back on topic: I don't use/own/want an Amiga computer, nor have I ever used or owned an Amiga, so I don't care if an Amiga subforum is added or not. If one is added, I won't read it or post in it. If one isn't added, I'll just continue on my merry Atari way as though no one had ever suggested that an Amiga forum be added. That said, I'm taking the position of indifference. My only concern regarding the addition of an Amiga forum is that it may potentially bring a lot of non-Atari computer users to the forum, possibly slowing down the board or leading to platform wars. Although, I do recognize this possibility as being quite remote. Edited December 11, 2008 by Ganky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 My only concern regarding the addition of an Amiga forum is that it may potentially bring a lot of non-Atari computer users to the forum, possibly slowing down the board or leading to platform wars. Although, I do recognize this possibility as being quite remote. The first item is not going to be an issue. The second, well, not likely to get any worse. ..Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 You see those discussions from time to time... Just not often, and they are lost instantly to the din of the overwhelming x86 and PPC discussions. That stuff to me is close to madness. Most of it is so far removed from what an Amiga was, that I don't even know why they carry on with the name. And if you want a modern general purpose silly fast computer, go buy a cheap PC. Shhh, don't tell anyone, but though I've got several STs, MegaSTE, STacy, Falcon, etc. my kitted out A1200 is my primary retro gaming platform of choice from the 16bit computing era. It's size, power, ease of use (WHDload, PCMCIA ethernet, etc) just put it far ahead. And now it's silent too. Which is taking a bit of getting used to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sauron Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 Screw an Amiga sub-forum. Albert needs to make a "CommodoreAge" website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwiliteZoner Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 (edited) Not sure how much use it would get, though, given people may not be expecting an Amiga forum on an Atari-centric site. Yet there is a wrestling subforum on an Atari-centric site? Yes, it is a slippery slope--once I add one non-Atari system to the mix, then I'll get calls to add others.. - Commodore 64/128 - TI 99/4a - Apple II - Intellivision - ColecoVision - Vectrex - Odyssey 2 - NES What's wrong with that? I wouldn't mind adding additional forums of this nature, but if they don't get much traffic then I don't really see the purpose of it. Of course they don't get much traffic, they don't exist yet. But seriously, if you look around at the "general everything else goes here" forums, there are posts involving NES, Coleco, Intellivision, etc... But those forums kinda suck to sustain any interest because they also have posts like "my feet are different sizes". Is it really that big a deal to throw them out there for a while and see how it goes. If there is no interest after a period of time, remove them. But it's kind of unfair to just assume they won't have interest and not give it a chance at all. You also have to consider... While what you said about Atari-centric is a fair point, search engines are a little less discriminating. Atariage is hit by crawlers. I often find google links pointing directly to threads that matched my search. Some people here are having Intellivision problems (and posting here on an Atari site). Some Intillivision person not from here could be searching for something and get a hit linking them here. While that can happen now, what would the reaction be of an outsider comming here and seeing that it's just one post in a sea of randomness at a place with a massive focus towards one thing that isn't about that post. One might not feel welcome. Wouldn't waste the time to register and reply to offer help because they can see it as an off-topic post that isn't about what the site is about and would just be igorned. If you're going to allow non-atari talk, then you should make non-atari'ers feel welcome. Only having all the Atari related stuff in their own nice rooms and everyone else has to share the communal tent out in the back yard doesn't exactly accomplish that. Has Amiga.org added an ST section? Didn't think so. Edited December 11, 2008 by TwiliteZoner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artlover Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 (edited) Screw an Amiga sub-forum. Albert needs to make a "CommodoreAge" website. Has Amiga.org added an ST section? Didn't think so. Yeah, they don't have an Xbox360, PS3, WII or Classic Machines forums either. Should Al remove "those" forums from this site? Edited December 11, 2008 by Artlover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 I think it's a worthwhile idea. I've got both machines - I decided on the ST originally based upon more software available and lower price at the time. That soon changed. No contest - the Amiga craps all over it. Of course STe redressed the balance a bit, but all too late. I've also noticed that there's a surprising lack of Amiga CD32 information out there, maybe getting a few people talking about them might stir something up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSchoolRetroGamer Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 I would like to see an Amiga subforum here. After all, I had to sell my expanded 130XE so I could afford the Amiga 600 back in the day. Did you ever reget that in any way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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