Ian Primus Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 Well, I just had a scary experience. I was givin a copy of "Mario All Stars" for the Super Nintendo that would not save. Upon opening the cartridge, I was suprised to find that the battery was actually still very strong - 3.2v - but the spot welds on the top that connected the positive terminal to the solder tabs had broken. "I'll just solder this back together, and it'll be fixed" I thought. Now, I've soldered to batteries plenty of times before, and never had a problem. It normally worked just fine. But not this time. I removed the battery from the board, and roughed up the top of the battery so the solder could sick. I then tried tinning it - but the solder refused to flow. It just balled up. Tried roughing it up more, cleaning it with alcohol, and tinning again. Still no go. It was at this moment that I thought to myself. "You can't overheat batteries - I read that they can explode!". So I put down the soldering iron, retrieved my full face mask, and put it on. More attempts to solder to the battery were failing, and I tried heating it even more. It was starting to look encouraging - the solder looked like it was about to flow. Then, PFOOOF!!! - the battery exploded. Bits of black battery crud went everywhere, along with the molten solder. I heard a 'plink' as the top of the battery landed on the floor. I stared at the bottom half of the battery on the bench for a minute, in disbelief. I took off my face mask and went to get the vacuum. I cleaned up the battery crud, and found the top cover of the battery, as well as the battery tab I was trying to solder to it. It never stuck. I was starting to think of other ways to get a battery onto this board when I looked over at my face mask on the bench. It's covered in molten solder drops. I'm definitely glad I took the time to use the proper safety equipment. Never, ever solder to batteries without wearing a mask. You can always buy another mask for ten bucks at the hardware store. A new face would cost a whole lot more. -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirage Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 Holy crap! Duly noted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aftermac Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 Wow! Glad you're ok! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Yakapucci Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 That is why I have been leery of replacing batteries. You can sometimes find batteries for sale with tabs already soldered on them, or I have seen for sale something called "wire glue". I wonder if it would work in a case like this. Check out their site: http://www.wireglue.us/ And no, I am not affiliated with them. Just curious. JY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
channelmaniac Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 WTF???? Why would you ever solder on a coin cell battery? There's no safe way to do that! AA/C/D and other big rechargeable cells, yes. Button cells? NEVER! Coin cells? NEVER! Take the old one to Batteries Plus and buy a replacement coin cell. They will spot weld tabs on batteries they sell for FREE. It's MUCH safer! By the way, that stuff inside those lithium coin cells is highly toxic and will eat traces like candy. Make sure to clean up any gunk from it VERY well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEgamer Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 This almost happened to me once too. I've succeeded in soldering those coin batteries before in SNES games, but one time I wasn't so lucky and the battery started to leak. One day I'm going to get some of these to make it a lot easier to replace them: http://cgi.ebay.com/CR2025-CR2032-PCB-Moun...p3286.m20.l1116 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Primus Posted March 8, 2009 Author Share Posted March 8, 2009 You can definitely solder to coin cells - I've done it before. You just have to solder quickly. I was having a hard time getting the solder to stick, so I had to heat it more - and in this case, too much. I was aware of the potential danger, and was wearing a face mask. We don't have "Batteries Plus" or anything like that around here. Closest thing is Radio Shack, and they don't carry solder-tab CR2032's - I checked. I know that overheating the battery like that was stupid. But, it was a stupid move with planning - I had the proper safety equipment. I posted this so that other people are aware of the things that can happen when doing things like this. But if you're careful, and take safety precautions, you'll be fine. That said, yeah, if at all possible, avoid soldering to coin batteries. Get the ones with the solder tabs already fitted - you won't have to worry about exploding those when installing them. Or, if possible, use a battery holder. The problem with using a holder in a game cart is that the battery might come loose if the game is dropped - erasing the save. I might try fitting a holder to this game though, and doing some testing to see if it is possible to erase a save that way. -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intvnut Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 In my case, when I had to replace a coin cell in a Zelda cartridge, I just wired in a battery socket so I'd never have to deal with soldering again on that cart. Since the socket didn't line up with the holes in the PCB, I used hookup wire, and then just used a couple cotton balls above/below the socket to pressure fit it into the large air-gap area in the NES cart so it wouldn't rattle around. Very effective, if a shade hackish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 well, yes, you knowingly violated your own knowledge and rules. Are you surprised it blew up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keilbaca Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Wow, I had no idea about the wire glue. I have to get some of that. I have a couple games with loose batteries/dead batteries that really could use this. The tabs are fine, everything is fine, just the battery is dead/loose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artlover Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Why would you ever solder on a coin cell battery? There's no safe way to do that! Gee, that's funny. I've done it a lot myself with no problems at all. Never blown one up from it. I've recharged many of them too without any problems. I've only ever blown up a coin-cell once and that was my own fault. When I was really impatient while recharging one, and decided to do a cheap & dirty quick charge pumping higher voltage @ high amp into the thing without monitoring heat or loaded voltage across the cell for too long. Closest thing is Radio Shack, and they don't carry solder-tab CR2032's - I checked. They do, but you have to order it. http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.js...oductId=3307341 Could always do a little creative modification and install a battery holder instead too. http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.js...oductId=3060977 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keilbaca Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Gee, now why didn't I think of that? We get blown motherboards all the time. I could have just desoldered the battery compartments. I might have to ask Scott for all blown mobo's for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Primus Posted March 10, 2009 Author Share Posted March 10, 2009 Why would you ever solder on a coin cell battery? There's no safe way to do that! Gee, that's funny. I've done it a lot myself with no problems at all. Never blown one up from it. Me too. Err, except for that 'never blown one up' part. That was true until the other day... I've only ever blown up a coin-cell once and that was my own fault. Yeah, this one was definitely my own fault. I got frustrated and just kept heating it rather than taking a break and letting it cool down. Closest thing is Radio Shack, and they don't carry solder-tab CR2032's - I checked. They do, but you have to order it. http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.js...oductId=3307341 And ordering something through Radio Shack defeats the _entire_ purpose of shopping at Radio Shack I'll probably just order some from Digikey next time I place an order. Or, just do like I've always done, and solder more quickly. Could always do a little creative modification and install a battery holder instead too. http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.js...oductId=3060977 I thought about that. I even picked up a battery holder when I was in Radio Shack checking for solder tab batteries. (But after I blew up the first battery...) I might try it on this cart, then save a game, and subject the cartridge to lots of vibration, and see if that's enough to dislodge the battery temporarily (enough to lose the save). That would be my main concern with using a battery holder in a game cartridge. -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+remowilliams Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 You should never solder directly to cells like that, they should always be spot welded if you're going to attempt it at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdement Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 Could always do a little creative modification and install a battery holder instead too. http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.js...oductId=3060977 I thought about that. I even picked up a battery holder when I was in Radio Shack checking for solder tab batteries. (But after I blew up the first battery...) I might try it on this cart, then save a game, and subject the cartridge to lots of vibration, and see if that's enough to dislodge the battery temporarily (enough to lose the save). That would be my main concern with using a battery holder in a game cartridge. -Ian I'm curious how big of a capacitor you'd need to compensate for that. Maybe that would work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keatah Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 4.7 uF would do nicely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadow460 Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 And ordering something through Radio Shack defeats the _entire_ purpose of shopping at Radio Shack I'll probably just order some from Digikey next time I place an order. Or, just do like I've always done, and risk blowing myself up. -Ian There, I fixed it for ya. I had to lol for a bit at this thread, 'cause you seem like someone who knows your stuff with electronics. At least it wasn't something like a PSP battery. Still, though, stop doing that. You might not be so lucky next time. I don't jack with batteries, although I'm pretty comfortable with my knowledge of how they work. I had an acid spill one day while filling up a non sealed automotive battery, and the apron I was wearing saved me lots of pain. After that and having a difficult time of making my own battery packs, I said to heck with it. That safety gear can only do so much, and one day you're gonna wind up getting hurt even with it on. If you don't think something is safe (or earn you some brownie points), you probably ought to think twice before you do it. Unless it involves monetary gain, then anything goes! If nothing else, tape the bare wires onto the cell or bend the old tabs so that they stay in contact with the new battery when the cartridge is closed. It beats the trouble of trying to get any kind of solder to stick. I've done that inside small carts like Game Boy ones. I dropped 'em, threw 'em across the room, etc, and they still held saves just fine. Larger ones, of course, get a battery holder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Ragan Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 This almost happened to me once too. I've succeeded in soldering those coin batteries before in SNES games, but one time I wasn't so lucky and the battery started to leak. One day I'm going to get some of these to make it a lot easier to replace them: http://cgi.ebay.com/CR2025-CR2032-PCB-Moun...p3286.m20.l1116 The problem with battery holders is that there usually isn't enough room in the Super NES cartridge for them. That's been my experience, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artlover Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 (edited) I had an acid spill one day while filling up a non sealed automotive battery, and the apron I was wearing saved me lots of pain. After that and having a difficult time of making my own battery packs, I said to heck with it. Yes because an automotive battery that is full of sulfuric acid is exactly the same as a coin cell. Sorry, but there is nothing wrong with it if you know what the hell you're doing and do it right. To that end, even if you don't, coin cells don't explode with a lot of force nor do they contain much inside. Biggest threat would be about what he suffered: short range solder splatter. Now those LiPo batteries on the other hand. Well, I've soldered those too. Lots of people do. Especially in hobby applications where people end up with several bad packs because only one of the cells failed and fix them making one good pack out of two bad packs. Considering they can explode just from normal use, it's almost irrelevant what you do to them. Tho, honestly, I think the explosive nature of LiPo's might be overrated. Yeah yeah, I've heard people talk, and seen pictures of the aftermath's of LiPo explosions and fires. Problem is, on two seperate occasions I've deliberately tried to blow up LiPo packs in front of a video camera (wanted to record an exploding LiPo). Trying various things like shorting them out, pumping 24 volts directly into a single cell, reversing the polarity, even tried A/C. The most I ever got was after quite a long time of waiting, they finally puffed up, split and released some nasty smoke & fumes. No explosion, no flames, no sparks. It sure wasn't spontanious either. The WillItBlend guy blended an iPhone, which also contains a LiPo. No explosion there either. I've got a 11.1v pack sitting here right now that was hit by a model helicopter blade, gouged one cell and shorted it out. No sparks/flame/fire/smoke. Once of these days I'll get off my lasy ass and fix it with a cell from another bad pack. Never been able to make an SLA blow up either, and I've abused the hell out of more then one of them. Gotten them to swell and pop their vents tho. In my personal experience, I'd have the say automotive batteries are the only really dangerous batteries out there. As I've seen more then one of them blow up, and all without even trying to make them do so. And they throw out a lot of acid and jagged pieces of plastic in the process. Hydrogen gas is a bitch. Edited March 17, 2009 by Artlover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Primus Posted March 17, 2009 Author Share Posted March 17, 2009 Sorry, but there is nothing wrong with it if you know what the hell you're doing and do it right. To that end, even if you don't, coin cells don't explode with a lot of force nor do they contain much inside. Biggest threat would be about what he suffered: short range solder splatter. And I knew what I was doing - I just didn't do it right... It was my own dumb fault for heating it too much, and I knew that. I posted this because I thought it was pretty funny that I blew up that battery, and I also wanted to warn others that these things can explode. But even then, the only danger was the solder spray. It wasn't much of an explosion - a little POP! like a small firecracker. The battery crud cleaned up easily, and while I washed it off my hands pretty quickly, it didn't seem caustic. Lithium coin batteries are pretty tame as far as caustic things go. I mean, I wouldn't eat the stuff - but it's not going to hurt you from the tiny amount that's in a battery or two. The same can be said for most consumer batteries. Alkaline batteries are also pretty safe - they can leak crud that will corrode electronics, but getting it on your hands for a short time isn't going to hurt you. Soldering to batteries is very doable and generally safe when done properly. But wearing a face mask protects you from when it isn't done properly. The same is true of using most power tools. Drilling holes in wood is generally safe - but it's a good idea to wear some safety glasses, just in case. In fact, any time that there is potential for tiny flying bits of anything - drilling, dremeling, using a table saw, soldering to things that might go POOF!... - I would much rather have a piece of impact resistant polycarbonate between my face and aforementioned tiny flying bits. But maybe that's just me. -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artlover Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 And I knew what I was doing - I just didn't do it right... Yeah, I know. I didn't mean to imply otherwise, tho it kind of came out that way. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadow460 Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Yeah, Ian, the whole thing was kinda funny when I read it. I didn't mean for my protective tone to overshadow that at all. It's just that I'm pretty adamant about safety. As long as it involves blowing stuff up (and possibly oneself with it), it's fair game, though, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdeptRapier Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Well, I just had a scary experience. I was givin a copy of "Mario All Stars" for the Super Nintendo that would not save. Upon opening the cartridge, I was suprised to find that the battery was actually still very strong - 3.2v - but the spot welds on the top that connected the positive terminal to the solder tabs had broken. "I'll just solder this back together, and it'll be fixed" I thought. Now, I've soldered to batteries plenty of times before, and never had a problem. It normally worked just fine. But not this time. I removed the battery from the board, and roughed up the top of the battery so the solder could sick. I then tried tinning it - but the solder refused to flow. It just balled up. Tried roughing it up more, cleaning it with alcohol, and tinning again. Still no go. It was at this moment that I thought to myself. "You can't overheat batteries - I read that they can explode!". So I put down the soldering iron, retrieved my full face mask, and put it on. More attempts to solder to the battery were failing, and I tried heating it even more. It was starting to look encouraging - the solder looked like it was about to flow. Then, PFOOOF!!! - the battery exploded. Bits of black battery crud went everywhere, along with the molten solder. I heard a 'plink' as the top of the battery landed on the floor. I stared at the bottom half of the battery on the bench for a minute, in disbelief. I took off my face mask and went to get the vacuum. I cleaned up the battery crud, and found the top cover of the battery, as well as the battery tab I was trying to solder to it. It never stuck. I was starting to think of other ways to get a battery onto this board when I looked over at my face mask on the bench. It's covered in molten solder drops. I'm definitely glad I took the time to use the proper safety equipment. Never, ever solder to batteries without wearing a mask. You can always buy another mask for ten bucks at the hardware store. A new face would cost a whole lot more. -Ian PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE video tape yourself the next time you do something like this!!! Ha Ha HA Ha!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadow460 Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 *solders carefully* POW!! *runs around room with arms waving in the air* Somebody help me! AAAHHHH!!!! just kidding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
famicommander Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 I usually just tape the tabs to the battery, then tape the battery in place. Been doing it for years, never had a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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