+bob1200xl Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 It looks like you may be able to just lift pin 48 and bias it high to get the format altered. Then load a new color map. It's a deal... Bob Tell You what Bob I'll do RGB->YPbPr converter, and You'll install that damn VBXE into Your computer Do we have a deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 I removed the Antic chip, put the socket in, and put the Antic chip into the socket and now it does not work. I had to re-attach several of the traces. Suspect the new 130xe is probably ruined, not about to go get another one for awhile. I hope I can get it working. Any suggestions. It's worthwhile to test with a multimeter - either follow the traces from the pins or just printout 6502 and Antic diagram with pinouts - almost all the lines go direct to the 6502. Some traces are on top of the board, so it's a chance that not enough solder flowed through. When my mate did mine, he also soldered/touched up the top by going under the socket. The 2 traces I broke he just patched over with wire from an old network cable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteym5 Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 I can try adding some solder to the top and I had patch over 2 broken traces with a short piece of copper whire. It is a little tight to get between the 6502 and the antic chip. I probably should set some aluminum foil on top of the 6502 so I do not burn to while I am attempting to add solder. All I get is a black screen right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candle Posted December 9, 2009 Author Share Posted December 9, 2009 Bob, as for GTIA core i would agree that i could change output format in DAC, so no other hardware would be required, but since it would be incompatible with PAL version (since PAL version uses RGB, and palette registers accept RGB values rather than YPbPr) it would render current software that uses RGB modes pretty useless - plus graphics conversion would be not that easy as it is bottom line is - its better to stick to RGB, than switch to YPbPr at least inside FPGA to DAC path You could say i or electron could implement RGB to YPbPr conversion inside FPGA, but doing this in logic would consume quite a few logic cells (multiply) and FPGA is 100% full lookup table for 24bit of data would be also huge, so some problems arise even in this approach simpler is to use external RGB->YPbPr conversion done on video opamps, and perhaps - to add PAL/NTSC encoder Peter: if screen stays black, you have still some lines broken, check with the schematics data and address buss going to cpu from antic, and from antic to system rom chip and mmu. then check clock signal path - checking for fp0 signal going from gtia to antic, and phi0 going from antic to cpu you can safely work without using aluminium foil over cpu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteym5 Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 I have to get some more 48 pin connectors, I burnt the one that came with VBXE. I had to remove it and managed to pull out a few more traces. I located a 130xe on EBAY, hope I win that one. Think I have to practice a different technique for removing these IC chips. It was going well then the last section, the eyelets remained stuck to the chip and pulled out with the traces. I can try melting away any residual solder if thats the cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+warerat Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Maybe your time and money is better spent having someone more experienced with better tools install this in the machine rather than destroying motherboard #3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candle Posted December 9, 2009 Author Share Posted December 9, 2009 at this point i think i can only agree with Sergio... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteym5 Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Maybe your time and money is better spent having someone more experienced with better tools install this in the machine rather than destroying motherboard #3. That may be necessary. Even with a solder sucker, solder flux, and a more powerful soldering I still managed to pull out several traces. I can practice removing other chips from the oldest board and see what it takes to remove chips without ripping the traces out. I understand even the most experienced people still rip traces out. I would prefer to find someone in the North East USA so it won't take long amounts of time to ship around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candle Posted December 9, 2009 Author Share Posted December 9, 2009 i do not (pull the traces) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+warerat Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 That may be necessary. Somewhere in the world, a 130XE motherboard has breathed a sigh of relief. Even with a solder sucker, solder flux, and a more powerful soldering I still managed to pull out several traces. I can practice removing other chips from the oldest board and see what it takes to remove chips without ripping the traces out. I understand even the most experienced people still rip traces out. Having some of the tools and knowing how to use them are two separate concepts. I would prefer to find someone in the North East USA so it won't take long amounts of time to ship around. I'm almost volunteering at this point to try to fix the damage for free to your two boards if you promise never touch an iron to an Atari again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 This is good advice. At this rate of attrition, VBXE will be indirectly responsible for the decimation of the world Atari 8-bit population. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteym5 Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Well my first 130XE board is cracked so that is just target practice for me. I probably will send out my 2nd 130XE board to a willing repair tech. I attempted to re-attach some of the traces back onto the board with some silicone glue leaving the end exposed. When I removed the socket, I left some solder in the holes. Now should I send the VBXE components also. I ordered replacment 28 & 40 pin sockets. Maybe someone can socket the Pokey, OS chip, + 6502 as well. I am strongly considering not touching the newer board at this point. I have a 256k 800XL here that did not originally belong to me so I am never going to touch the inside of that. I think I still lack the right type of soldering iron. I admit I pried a little with a screwdriver after I removed the solder. Maybe I should have did more solder sucking or melting off any residual solder before attempting to remove it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 The patches for your lifted traces should go under the board. Isn't Sal handy with the soldering equipment? Get him to have a look at it. The socket work itself is the hard part - doing the patches to hook up the extra signalling is easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candle Posted December 9, 2009 Author Share Posted December 9, 2009 Gary, don't... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candle Posted December 12, 2009 Author Share Posted December 12, 2009 Gary, maybe you could thinker with this a bit: http://www.preromanbritain.com/gwem/martbean/ataridiy/conv.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Cool - that might be a better option. Working on a game conversion now (just a Basic one), but might give that a go later in the week. What's the P-P of the RGB coming out of VBXE? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candle Posted December 12, 2009 Author Share Posted December 12, 2009 was designed to be 0.75Vp-p as far as i remember, VBXE v1.x is diffrent or.. better check this with a scope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteym5 Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 I think I figured out how to repair broken traces is by soldering a new wire between the original points on the IC chips. I wedge the end of the wire in with the IC pin before applying new solder. That way I have a better chance of a good connection. However in case that does not work, I have another 130XE on the way. I won it on EBAY and did not pay a whole lot for it. I did some practice on the oldest board and removed a few ICs without ripping out any traces or damaging the chip. Just have to use the right tool to lift the chip out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candle Posted December 12, 2009 Author Share Posted December 12, 2009 Peter, chip supposes to drop out of the board when desoldered properly bare this in mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 I'd really recommend to send the computer to someone to do it for you. Surely postage isn't very much - we can ship XEGS all the way to the other side of the country for something like $10-$12. Of maybe phone up some local electronic repair places. Just take the keyboard off - the machine works fine without it, and the weight drops by like 1/3rd. And... properly soldering in a socket isn't a walk in the park either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syfo-Dyas Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Are these still being produced? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimo Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 candle will have the official answer, but my understanding is that they are all sold out. We need to convince candle to make another production run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candle Posted December 18, 2009 Author Share Posted December 18, 2009 Current run is sold out next run is issued at 02-03.2010 - depends on intrest in the project Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atari8guy Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Current run is sold out next run is issued at 02-03.2010 - depends on intrest in the project There is interest here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syfo-Dyas Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 That sounds like a good date. Will give me time to get my money in order. yes please, keep producing! Hell make a whole new game system while your at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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