FS: Fairchild System (Channel F) Multi-Cart, pre-order now.

[+jgkspsx]

The link in the OP is still pointing to 117. Took me a moment to figure that out

[e5frog]

Aha... will update. 

[+batari]

On 11/29/2020 at 7:13 AM, e5frog said:

It would be really cool having a "Channel  SD" cart. There are people with finished solutions, that they aren't keen on sharing (I understand why), selling something like 20 carts a year is perhaps not a market that is tempting to spend time on. Unless you're into the system yourself.

 

I have been meaning to make  a simple dev cart for years that is able to load data via USB and not having to use an eprom programmer and socketed memory... hasn't happened yet even though CAD drawings have been done for several versions. It's mainly a "money for prototyping" problem, which has been tight for the last six years with the wife in school (for adult people). 

 

There's a system for Vectrex identifying a 39SFxxx flashrom as a USB memory which seems interesting.

Instead of the programmer as a separate part it could be built into the cartridge and you'd have a USB connector in the cart.

Borrowed one of them from a friend but haven't had time to spend on it yet. 

SD would be really cool though but seems to have a larger threshold. 

I think the bigger roadblock is if Channel F homebrew stuff still requires an OEM Fairchild 3853 chip on the cartridge board to interface with the EPROM/Flash. Has anyone created a modern replacement for this chip yet?

[Rogerpoco]

Not sure how many times this ad is gonna make the front page/most recent post, and me get all excited thinking there's a Fairchild up for grabs, but the number keeps growing.

 

[FND]

Talk to me

 

[e5frog]

@FND - nice!

 

Anyway.
Bad news for Multi-Cart I guess...
The new company "Skalectrotechny, LLC" has applied for trademark on "CHANNEL F" and "VIDEOCART" on the 20th of July and Mr Skalny claims to have bought the rights for the original Channel F hardware and software, he has been emailing me and want me onboard the project before a planned crowdfunding. His/their plan is to re-release a new version of the console, I imagine it's like the other hardware emulated modernized machines released in the last years. 
Considering my sales in the last 12 years I have very little hope of that goal ever being reached but I'm rather certain (with all the money invested) I'll be hunted down due to rights if continuing to sell the Multi-Cart. I already have Skalny's full attention - so it feels like it's pretty much done and over even if a "seize and desist" or whatever it's called hasn't reached me (yet). 

Skalny has a couple of other LLC-companies so regarding that he's not new in the game. 

 

Here's some of the email conversation: 

Quote

 

My company is looking to develop new retro game products in the Channel F space.  As you are one of the experts in this space, we are wondering if you might like to discuss possible collaboration opportunities.  If you are interested, let me know when you might be available for a discussion. 
 

---
 

We are looking ultimately to manufacture new Channel F consoles and Videocarts in an effort to reinvigorate the brand, likely in part through some type of crowdfunding.  Hopefully, we can see interest and volume at a level that will allow for increased access to this iconic console, while being affordable for manufacturing.  As a collector of Channel F games myself, the quality of the used games, cost, and availability has made it challenging to procure good copies.  Given your knowledge in development of games and software for the Channel F, we think your participation in some form on the team would be beneficial.  Would you be available at any time this week for a GoToMeeting call so we can have further discussions?  

 

As you correctly noted, we have filed in the US for trademarks for both "Channel F" and "Videocart" in relation to a variety of uses, mostly in the video game space.  We are not currently in a position to do any type licensing of the marks for use in homebrew.  However, we hope to be able to support some type of homebrew development with the new consoles, as we think it is valuable to preserving interest in the brand.      

 

---

 

We think an important part of having a successful crowdfunding campaign is having a strong team with all the necessary expertise identified for the project.  We are not in a position to pay anyone at this point as we are just starting out, but post successful crowdfunding, this is likely a possibility.  We think you would add a lot of value to the team in regards to your specific expertise in programming games for the Channel F, and we would ultimately like new games to work on the new systems as well as the original systems.  Would you be willing to consider being a part of the team for the initial crowdfunding campaign?   

 

We are seeking other partners for the industrial design and FPGA hardware design.  In addition to the trademarks, our company has also acquired all of the intellectual property rights in the Channel F video game system and its games.  So, we will be looking to make everything as close to how it originally was as possible.

---
 

David Skalny

Managing Director

Skalectrotechny, LLC

 

Various links:

https://michigan-company.com/co/skalectrotechny-llc
https://uspto.report/company/Skalectrotechny-L-L-C

 

I haven't decided yet if I should join or not. It feels like it's just him and that he's having some nostalgia trip hoping to get some money out of it. 

EDIT: 
Well, no nostalgia trip here, a 37 year old lawayer seems to be in it for some other reason, "Intellectual property". Same address as the company anyway. 
https://www.lawyer.com/search_lawyer.php?qx=Skalny&country=US&state=MI&ml=50&lc=Utica&sb=distance

Consider this the last chance to get a Multi-Cart, I don't think releasing new games should be a problem - much like the Atari and other scenes. I have no idea about using logos in new games, maybe I just need to include the trademark owner when the names are used?

Tell your friends, last chance.

Edited July 28, 2021 by e5frog

[+stupus]

Ah nice now ch f has its own cardillo.

 

Nice messages from him...

Hey ch f is mine now but im happy to have you come do what you have been doing for years now for free for me...what a deal.

 

If he doesnt actually produce something his trademark will not hold up. Also the fact you have been actually continually producing stuff for years could show you in fact are actually producing under this trademark already.

Its only like $300 to file for it.

Maybe send him a cease and desist

[+stupus]

Also i would not work with him if i were you.

His trademark will only become legitimized if he makes a product immediately. 

He is almost certainly trying to use you to help him create a product so his trademark will go thru and become legitimate. Just as cardillo tried to do with ben heck.

Also if you were to apply for the trademarks your filing will supersede his because you have product presence and have been using the unregistered trademarks for years now on your products. Im happy to help chip in for the $300 trademark filing fee 

 

Lastly you are in sweden and us trademark and copyright dont apply there. He would need to have international copyrights registered. Also there is no international trademark so he would have to file under all jurisdictions and produce products for those regions with those 2 marks.

[e5frog]

Thanks stupus, it's quite possible I'd help him to charge me for using his trademarks.  

I'd love to have trademarks registered, no chance in h* I'll be able to afford to file for one - I also have no registered business. Making carts for some 300+ people is not really a viable business model, if wanting to make a profit it's definately not something I recommend.

But it's true I have blatantly used the old brands and trademarks since at least 2009 without anyone opposing.

Also don't know anything about these things, I'm just generally doing what I feel like and hope I'll "fly under the radar". As long as I don't make something from Nintendon's repertoire I imagine the worst is avoided. Nam(nam)co Bandai(d) nor Tea-tris Holding hasn't gotten in touch yet.   

... that fact is however a large reason not to draw attention. 

If the logos from the 70's are free to steal, it would be supercool if "CHANNEL F (F)" had been mine to use and not being afraid of needing a license, as well as VIDEOCART in both the line font and the newer one.
US is the major part of the (small) market, getting a trademark in Sweden seems like it would be a waste of money...? But perhaps that would allow export the goods with my trademark.

As can be seen in the links, there are no logo images filed with "CHANNEL F" and "VIDEOCART", just a standard font - so that seems a bit odd to me. Maybe it's just the words themselves being trademarked?
 

Anyway, these things are for the wealthy, they can just run everyone over with help of the law. 

 

 

If he's already got the rights I can't see any other legal way to make the Multi-Cart, in its current shape, without getting a license for the original games or take the risk of a legal letter popping up with some kind of damage claim. 
I don't know about copyright laws in the US but it might be interesting to know Zircon has no copyright notices on a lot of their games, just their Z-world-logo and information that CHANNEL F and VIDEOCART is Fairchild's trademarks. In some countries that means it's public domain - and has been for 30+ years.

Registering trademark in Sweden seems to need every little thing in different classes and price raises for every class. Let's say trying to incorporate all types of electronics and then also T-shirts for example, pathes to sow on clothes, videogames. Those are all different classes. Keeping to just the electronics and videogames is two classes.
 

 

Edited July 28, 2021 by e5frog

[Mikebloke]

Hmmm I'm wondering if you're being a little over anxious on this. I think the worst case scenario any packaging or labelling of multicart will need new logos. If you are worried about the games themselves coming under copyright, this brings an SD card solution closer to being the next best choice and saves you from packaging the old games with carts. 

 

US copyright and all its complexities often does not extend beyond its own borders, although if it was produced or sold in europe it might give them an in through EU law. However.... 

 

.. I think your safe. The age of the machine, the fact that you've been one of the sole producers of anything for the system, and the low numbers does not suggest you'd be market competition. Most copyright infringement is on loss of sales. You're saying you've had less than 400 customers in 15+ years, and I imagine not a lot of that is profit. I think it would be hard to argue in court that a sale or two a month of a multicart is effecting their business. 

 

In addition to this other systems such as the commodore 64 have had new retro systems and multicards still exist and are produced and sold on eBay and other markets. 

 

In regards to collaboration, I think only you can really answer if its good to collaborate or not. One option you could do is ask that homebrew / multicart is still free to produce without effecting anyone else's rights. You could also ask what expectations of payment homebrew developers might get for supporting both new and old systems (it might be a case that there is no fee/cost to use the label, essentially keeping it as it is now - they might be more keen to get games out there than to force stop development) Does collaborative work preserve the system more than currently? Is that a plus point? 

 

My only advice is to ask lots of questions before giving an answer. In memory of Jerry Lawson as well, be mindful that if you are going to be some of the brains of the hardware side of these things, you should be adequately compensated for it. No expectation of pay immediately? Fine, I don't think there is much business case to make a channel f revival ridiculously profitable, so ask for partnership instead. If it goes well, you should have your fair share of reward for what will likely be your invaluable experience. If nothing happens, perhaps your status gives you a chance to take over any future projects under the name.

[+stupus]

First off he cant offer you a lisence right now because he doesnt have 1 himself....only applied for. He makes it sound like he doesnt want to offer that right now but the real thing is that his trademark wont go into effect until he has created and started selling a product using the trademarks in the catagory he has applied under.

If you help him make a product or you let him sell your products you will have made his trademark legitimate. I would strongly advise you dont do that and dont sign anything.

 

You also dont need a registered business to have a trademark. You have been using the dead trademarks for 12 years. So you have current presence of product using those markings in a non registered state. If you applied for the trademarks now your application would supercede his and would process quicker with documented products already in use. And selling only small quantities is still selling and using.

You are also correct that he hasnt applied for the logo rights, only the names it seems. And only in certain categories.

 

I think it would be worthwhile to try and register channel f and with the font for the videogame category in the usa. I would even be interested to go in on it with you if it meant keeping the rights 'in the retro community family'

I could act as your us distribution as well if you wanted. Would save usa buyers shipping as well.

 

Aside from that, you being in sweden i think makes you safe to keep using the stuff until he might ever register for international rights.

 

I also would be very surprised if he bought the rights to the old games...i would guess this is a bluff to make him seem more legitament. 

I wonder who even still owned them. Likely zircon licenced them from channel f and didnt own them. I would love to see proof of his so called ownership.

 

As far as homebrews. You should be fine to keep making them. At most you might have to say channel f and videocart are trademarks of such and such on the items. And you could still use the logos even, if he doesnt get a trademark on them too and also gets it approved. And it doesnt appear he has tried to.

 

As for the multicart, if he truly bought the rights to the games...which i highly doubt. You could not sell the multicart with the roms already on it.

But you could sell it with either a flashable chip or an sd card that users could then load with games. Or that someone could load with games for them ;). Again im very surprised if he actually bought rights to all games and the system hardware.

 

On top of all this you are in sweden so none of the us copyrights or trademarks apply to you. Unless he goes a much bigger process with international regustration....more money for something that probably will never profit him

 

 

As for you registering in sweden for trademarks in videogames this would at least allow him to never own the trademark there and keep you totally safe to keep using it.

At this point i think you are good to keep doing what you have been regardless. At this point he has only applications and nothing awarded to him so he cant legally tell you not to do anything....especially in sweden

And if he tries to enforce stuff he doesnt actually own thats a felony here in the us.

 

I also agree with most of mikes statements.

I think your safe to keep doing what you are. And i think him wanting to collaborate with you is only to try and use your product to make his applied for trademarks become real. Also why he wont pay you. He wants to claim your priduct, legitimize his trademarks and then have actual control of the properties for a few years anyway.

Until he presents a manufactured product being sold he will not be granted those rights. And i highly doubt he ever will without your help.

Keep in mind you are the one with the power and he is the one trying to take that from you.

To me it really stinks he does this like cardillo tried to pull on ben heck with colecivision.

Heck had 1 handheld coleco unit he made from scratch. Cardillo offered him to lisence it under him and then cardillo illegally tried to use that 1 off product to take ownership of the coleco trademarks. Really shady crap!!

 

 

 

 

Edited July 28, 2021 by stupus

[e5frog]

I have thought Zircon bought it all, Fairchild scrapped it, FND probably knows the details about it. EDIT: http://www.fndcollectables.com/CHANNEL_F_INFO/U_S_/Time_Line/time_line.html

The stuff would have been sold by Zircon unless they have sold it further or things just swapped hands in lawyer-ish ways. 

Regarding registering a trademark, would a word trademark include all kinds of logos showing the word f.x? 
These things probably require a lawyer apart from the costs of actual applications. As far as I could see this guy is a lawyer in the field so... he has no extra costs for that as he does it himself. Spending $500 or so to register the trademark in four categories is probably not a heap of money for him. 
It seems if the trademark is registered in the US it's less problematic to get a world trademark (or the 117 countries included in the agreement).

Don't have any spare money, so I don't have any money to spend on this unnecessary thing (You know, Sweden having the highest tax pressure in the world).
When reaching the end of a cartridge batch I hopefully have something to invest in the next project. Reprinting instructions for Tetris three times for example took a large bite from that.   ... every time the boards need to be changed it needs a test run, color matching reprints etc etc. But I guess it's mostly my fault for trying to improve on details that might not even be noticed. 

Trying to crowdfund a trademark purchase to be able to offer these things for the collecting community might be a way to buy rights and perhaps give to public domain - if it actually stays there and isn't re-registered. 
Considering releasing bootleg versions of other companies's games I'm not sure it would be wise to bring attention to me using the dead trademarks - so that doesn't help much in regards to getting ahead of the already filed application. 

Even if I had trademark and they'd overstep their boundaries - what would I be able to do about it? Contact a pro bono lawyer to sort it out?
"Fairchild Video Entertainment System/Computer" wouldn't be trademarked I guess. 


I would have loved to join if it was a few known collectors/scene people wanting to revive it - but who's this guy?



Saw this one the other day: 

Might have set a mood about the whole thing. 

 

Anyway. 
Would be cool if anyone who has planned to get a Multi-Cart take the opportunity, in case lawyer letters start flooding in in about 3 months or so. 
 

Edited July 29, 2021 by e5frog

[+jgkspsx]

This gentleman lives a stone’s throw away from me. If you need any reconnaissance let me know. I hope he doesn’t turn out to be a crappy person.

 

EDIT: looks like he’s a computer engineer first? https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.army.mil/article-amp/159186/army_advances_battery_research_with_engineers_japanese_assignment
 

I really want to believe he is making this effort because of passion and not to be a copyright troll. It just doesn’t seem that there’s much money in it to make the latter profitable.

[student]

ANy chance to still get 1 of those cool carts ?

[Sonaru]

This would be great to have a multicart. I'll get one when they become available but I will need to get a console first. How much will it be when they come out?

[e5frog]

Still making them. 

Just updated the order list, will double check against the PayPal payments later. 

 

If you have paid and don't see your name in the list, let me know in a message. 

[e5frog]

Getting some speed  on these after the injury, don't think many of these will arrive before Christmas unfortunately. 

[AirtekHVAC]

I have sent you a PM.

 

 Thanks 

[e5frog]

Happy 2022, still manufacturing. 

Edited January 3, 2022 by e5frog

[e5frog]

The violent cancellation (having PayPal reversing payment leading to emptying my PayPal-account leaving negative $90+) was quickly solved. 

A note, an e-mail, would have been nice, the cart was ready to be shipped. PayPal should really open a dispute for comments before attacking non-company PayPal-accounts. 

Thanks to Frank for rescuing the situation.

 

Carts until 0xEA has been shipped. Five more orders are on the list, the oldest one is from 25th of October - which is a lot older than they usually get unless waiting for parts. 
Check the first page for current status. 

 

[+jgkspsx]

Make sure to put whoever did that to you on the Bad Traders List.

[cw125]

Cart arrived in the mail the other day and first of I want to say that the box you made for it was great. Second is the nice tribute to the designer on the back.

Had a blast playing and just wanted to say thanks for the hard work that you put into this project. 

[e5frog]

On 1/17/2022 at 4:41 PM, cw125 said:

Cart arrived in the mail the other day and first of I want to say that the box you made for it was great. Second is the nice tribute to the designer on the back.

Had a blast playing and just wanted to say thanks for the hard work that you put into this project. 

Thanks! 

 

I'm making ten carts parallell at the moment, progress is good. Had to spend half the dedicated time today fixing the heat gun used for label removing.
The 230VAC cable had broken att the bend protection, it just died when bending the cable slightly.  
When inside I had to swap the Chinese electrolytic capacitors as well - didn't look good. 

Most of the other half was spend desoldering chips and testing as the 9th cart didn't work, didn't find anything wrong with any part nor the board (after beeping ALL traces). I assume it was ghosts, a temporary flux in time, debris or perhaps an invisible solder bridge. Works perfectly after re-assembly. 

So boards are tested and done, shells cleared, just labels to do and attach and boxes to cut/fold/glue. 
I won't make any promises but I'm more than half way done with your already paid order.
Imagine if I had been home from work every day, I could probably make ten carts per day - if problem free, who would buy them though, I'm at 25 per year or so. 

I have adjusted the price to better represent the actual cost for materials, shipping and - well just that. I have been having the same price for quite some time as I had a nice large stock of parts.
If you want to get a cart this very moment I can let you have it for the previous price ($147/$156). 


A reminder: There's still Pac-Man, Tetris and possibly trimerous (if I first check with Chris) available for purchase. 
I have sold a couple of disguised Pac-Man carts that are really Multi-Carts but starts as Pac-Man unless you hold button 1 when resetting, fun little thing, saves some space in the shelf.
Any available game could be done that way if there's a need. I can reproduce any title in case you need a place holder waiting for your "holy grail". Any such custom work will be at least the cost of a Multi-Cart. 

 

[poppalarge]

Just ordered while I still can!

[Deconstructor]

I just got a channel F last month. Are there any carts left?