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The Official "Super Expansion Module" Thread


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I was wondering if a port of Dragon's Lair for the Adam would be possible using the Super Game Module? I'm dieing to play this game on my ColecoVision! :-D :thumbsup: Just look at that game play!!!!!!! :lust: :lust: :lust:

 

It's a personal dream of mine to bring Dragon's Lair to the CV in cartridge format, and I'm always on the lookout for opportunities to get it done. I would pay a lot of money to see it become reality. :)

 

Anyway, yes, the SGM would make it quite possible to play a cartridge conversion of the DDP Adam game (with the use of a MegaCart, of course) on a regular ColecoVision console. However, the real obstacle is the effort involved in doing the conversion. The game is 160K in size, which is 5 times the size of a regular 32K ROM. And the original DDP version probably uses several Adam BIOS features not present in the CV BIOS.

 

So whoever would tackle this challenge would need to know both the Adam and the ColecoVision inside and out, in order to make sense of the code disassembly. And he would also need to study and understand how the MegaCart works. All the technical pieces are there (there's even a debugger in AdamEm, I've been told) but it's really the tremendous effort involved that makes it unlikely to ever happen.

 

What would be nice is a little gadget that have Compact Flash/SD card slot wich you could store the DDP rom files and play them using the SGM

sort of similar thing that member here; Else was supposed to release for the ADAM

But this one would be for the SGM ...

 

 

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I was wondering if a port of Dragon's Lair for the Adam would be possible using the Super Game Module? I'm dieing to play this game on my ColecoVision! :-D :thumbsup: Just look at that game play!!!!!!! :lust: :lust: :lust:

 

It's a personal dream of mine to bring Dragon's Lair to the CV in cartridge format, and I'm always on the lookout for opportunities to get it done. I would pay a lot of money to see it become reality. :)

 

Anyway, yes, the SGM would make it quite possible to play a cartridge conversion of the DDP Adam game (with the use of a MegaCart, of course) on a regular ColecoVision console. However, the real obstacle is the effort involved in doing the conversion. The game is 160K in size, which is 5 times the size of a regular 32K ROM. And the original DDP version probably uses several Adam BIOS features not present in the CV BIOS.

 

So whoever would tackle this challenge would need to know both the Adam and the ColecoVision inside and out, in order to make sense of the code disassembly. And he would also need to study and understand how the MegaCart works. All the technical pieces are there (there's even a debugger in AdamEm, I've been told) but it's really the tremendous effort involved that makes it unlikely to ever happen.

 

What would be nice is a little gadget that have Compact Flash/SD card slot wich you could store the DDP rom files and play them using the SGM

sort of similar thing that member here; Else was supposed to release for the ADAM

But this one would be for the SGM ...

 

You need to remeber that the ADAM has 64KB of RAM, while the SGM offers only 32KB.... Since probably a lof of RAM was used simply to hold static data from the DDPs, ROM cartridge would be used instead, but we really don't know how much RAM (or variable data) is actually required until someone disassemble the original code.

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I was wondering if a port of Dragon's Lair for the Adam would be possible using the Super Game Module? I'm dieing to play this game on my ColecoVision! :-D :thumbsup: Just look at that game play!!!!!!! :lust: :lust: :lust:

 

It's a personal dream of mine to bring Dragon's Lair to the CV in cartridge format, and I'm always on the lookout for opportunities to get it done. I would pay a lot of money to see it become reality. :)

 

Anyway, yes, the SGM would make it quite possible to play a cartridge conversion of the DDP Adam game (with the use of a MegaCart, of course) on a regular ColecoVision console. However, the real obstacle is the effort involved in doing the conversion. The game is 160K in size, which is 5 times the size of a regular 32K ROM. And the original DDP version probably uses several Adam BIOS features not present in the CV BIOS.

 

So whoever would tackle this challenge would need to know both the Adam and the ColecoVision inside and out, in order to make sense of the code disassembly. And he would also need to study and understand how the MegaCart works. All the technical pieces are there (there's even a debugger in AdamEm, I've been told) but it's really the tremendous effort involved that makes it unlikely to ever happen.

 

What would be nice is a little gadget that have Compact Flash/SD card slot wich you could store the DDP rom files and play them using the SGM

sort of similar thing that member here; Else was supposed to release for the ADAM

But this one would be for the SGM ...

 

You need to remeber that the ADAM has 64KB of RAM, while the SGM offers only 32KB.... Since probably a lof of RAM was used simply to hold static data from the DDPs, ROM cartridge would be used instead, but we really don't know how much RAM (or variable data) is actually required until someone disassemble the original code.

 

Playing the Dragon's Lair prototype might give us the anwser ..... DL prototype was developed on a CV board

When you insert the DL proto in a plain vanilla cv system, it doesn't work

When you insert it using the Expansion Module 3 , it work

 

I'm wondering if DDP games use the full 64k .....?

 

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I'm wondering if DDP games use the full 64k .....?

 

Probably most of the available 64K, but my question would be if the whole 64K in the Adam is actually pure RAM.

 

In the CV, the 64K address space is divided into several parts: First part is the BIOS, second part is for expansion (generally unused by legacy software, but with the SGM it becomes RAM), third part is onboard RAM (only 1K of it is used, the rest is mirrored, although the SGM changes this) and the remaining 32K is reserved for the cart ROM.

 

Isn't the Adam also structured like this? BIOS first, and the rest as pure RAM?

 

In any case, the way Dragon's Lair loads the next level from the DDP into RAM while the user is playing the current level leads me to believe that each level probably doesn't use more than 16K. So with the SGM, one could use a load-and-run technique: Load the first game level from the Mega-Cart into the SGM's RAM space, let the user play this game level, and then load the next level from the MegaCart when the current level is completed. Doing it this way means that the original code of each level of Dragon's Lair probably won't require many alterations, and you wouldn't need to load the next level into RAM while the current level is being played (like the Adam does) because copying from ROM to RAM is much faster than from DDP to RAM.

 

I don't really know how the actual DDP software is structured under the hood, so everything I propose above is pure theory at this point, but I like to believe that the added RAM of the SGM could make the DDP-to-cart conversion effort easier.

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One of my subscribers gave me an excellent idea about making a video to promote the 30 year anniversary of the ColecoVision in August. Maybe I could showcase the upcoming Super Game Module with some photos of the module itself or something like that. And with permission maybe some footage of games in development, just a few seconds or so like they did 30 years ago.

 

Let me know your thoughts. I am willing to help out in any way I can.

 

That would be wonderful and really appreciated. Please let me know if you need any assistance.

 

BTW, some news about the SGM status soon. I am definitively behind schedule, but things are coming along.

 

My plan so far, and it is subject to change, is to make a YouTube "commercial" similar to what they did 30 years ago, but at 1 minute or maybe 2 minutes. I plan on showing some finished homebrew game logos with a voice over just like the old commercials did. And I also thought I could show some photos of the new super game module and maybe a few seconds of video of planned games, or at least logos of them. Even if they are prototypes and get changed, or never arrive, it would be just like the vaporware games shown back then in the CV catalog!

 

I guess what I need first is permission to do this from everyone involved.

 

I will need some basic info about the new module, nothing really technical, but basic stuff, like more colors (how many?), better sound (how many channels?), more memory (how much?) etc. Or I can just say something like "With the new Super Game Module you get better sound, more colors, just like the arcades!".

 

I would also like to show any photos or videos that will show the module and the games themselves. Hopefully more than just a circuit board, but something that looks like a semi finished product. Like I mentioned even if they are prototypes that would be fitting with some of the ads back in the day showing things like the coleco controllers with spinners on them and so on.

 

I am open to suggestions so feel free to contact me with any ideas, changes, or things that should be included that I haven't thought of.

 

If it would be better to PM me with photos and such feel free to do that as well.

 

By the way does anyone know the launch date of the CV back then, or a rough estimate?

Edited by 65Gamerguy
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One of my subscribers gave me an excellent idea about making a video to promote the 30 year anniversary of the ColecoVision in August. Maybe I could showcase the upcoming Super Game Module with some photos of the module itself or something like that. And with permission maybe some footage of games in development, just a few seconds or so like they did 30 years ago.

 

Let me know your thoughts. I am willing to help out in any way I can.

 

That would be wonderful and really appreciated. Please let me know if you need any assistance.

 

BTW, some news about the SGM status soon. I am definitively behind schedule, but things are coming along.

 

My plan so far, and it is subject to change, is to make a YouTube "commercial" similar to what they did 30 years ago, but at 1 minute or maybe 2 minutes. I plan on showing some finished homebrew game logos with a voice over just like the old commercials did. And I also thought I could show some photos of the new super game module and maybe a few seconds of video of planned games, or at least logos of them. Even if they are prototypes and get changed, or never arrive, it would be just like the vaporware games shown back then in the CV catalog!

 

I guess what I need first is permission to do this from everyone involved.

 

I will need some basic info about the new module, nothing really technical, but basic stuff, like more colors (how many?), better sound (how many channels?), more memory (how much?) etc. Or I can just say something like "With the new Super Game Module you get better sound, more colors, just like the arcades!".

 

I would also like to show any photos or videos that will show the module and the games themselves. Hopefully more than just a circuit board, but something that looks like a semi finished product. Like I mentioned even if they are prototypes that would be fitting with some of the ads back in the day showing things like the coleco controllers with spinners on them and so on.

 

I am open to suggestions so feel free to contact me with any ideas, changes, or things that should be included that I haven't thought of.

 

If it would be better to PM me with photos and such feel free to do that as well.

 

By the way does anyone know the launch date of the CV back then, or a rough estimate?

 

I apologize for the very late reply, this past week was just crazy. I am swamped with stuff that I need to do, getting behind schedules, just crazy.

 

Anyway, I am going to send you stuff later today, but for now, here are some specs for the SGM:

 

- It expands the CV's main memory from 1KB to up to 32KB, depending on the mode you are using it.

- It doubles the number of sound channels.

 

As you can see, no video characteristics are changed, though the extra memory can surely help you produce games that are visually a tad more complex.

 

The reason you get better arcade ports with more RAM is because you can now perfectly emulate the way the original arcade programs worked, since most arcade games, even from the early 80s, had more than 1KB of RAM. So just to give you a concrete example, Pac-Man and Space Invaders are two games where the original arcades run on 1KB of RAM. Because of that they could be perfectly emulated in terms of gameplay on the CV. However most games after 1981 used more 2KB or more fo RAM (DK for example uses 4KB), meaning that porting them would require compromises. Well, compromises are required anyways in terms of graphics, sound and screen layout, due to hardware differences, but with the SGM we get closer to perfect gameplay emulation, and closer to the arcade experience.

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I haven't provided an update for a while, so here is current status of the SGM:

 

- Plastic case: done, waiting for manufacturing.

- PCB: I am about to start assembling Rev B. If it is ok, I will order Rev C (which had already been designed back in April). Once Rev C is tested (Rev C is the one that supports the ADAM), I will start beta testing (I would like to have 3 months of beta at least). I also got quotes for the assembled PCBs.

- Packaging: name plate, manual and catalog mostly done. I have a company working on fabricated endcap foams. That is the closest we can get of molded foam, used on most consumer electronic products, and used by Coleco on their ColecoVision products. Once the endcaps prototype are done, we will start designing the box.

 

So things are coming along, we are a bit behind schedule but I am confident that, unless we find a serious problem with the PCB during beta, we should be all set for a 2012 release.

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I will be ordering the SGM connectors and PCB rec C tomorrow.

 

I will also be contacting everybody in the pre-order list in the next few days, but for those who keep reading this thread, here is a preview of how sales of the SGM will be handled:

 

- I will be using July to test board rec C. For that I will use 4 ColecoVisions and 1 ADAM, a number of SGM games and regular CV games.

- In August we start beta testing, 5 more people testing the latest rev of the board. For beta I will use boards that will come assembled from the manufacturer in China. That will make sure we test boards that are exactly identical to those that will be sold.

- August 31st is our deadline for having the design of every single component of the SGM package completed. That means the case (which is actually done), PCB (including a month of beta testing) and packaging (box, manual, catalog, endcaps, etc).

- In September 1st we start taking orders. The reason is simple: based on quotes, the estimate total cost for manufacturing the SGM is $16K (for 200 units), and I just don't have that amount of money in my bank account. Orders will be accepted until September 30th in case we reach a minimum number of 150 units, otherwise I will extend it until we reach 150 units. However, and this is important, once orders are closed, I won't be manufacturing more units until we reach another 100 units, and not before 2013, and price might be higher than the initial run. In case the order period extends beyond September 30th (if we don't get 150 units ordered until that date), then there is a risk of the SGM not releasing this year, as the manufacturing period is estimated in 2 months.

- Manufacturing will start immediately after the order period is over, hopefully in October 1st. Also, beta testing will be over in October 1st, so we should have plenty of time to detect and fix any issues.

- Shipping of the SGM is expected to start around early December, just in time for Christmas, unless the order period extends beyond September 30th (see above).

- Opcode will have one game in time for the SGM release, and hopefully 3 more will be available from Team Pixelboy and CollectorVision. Several other games to follow in 2013 from Opcode, Pixelboy and hopefully CollectorVision.

 

Again, those in the pre-order list will receive this and more in the next few days.

 

Thanks,

 

Eduardo

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As I already said...

 

I'll be supporting the SGM 100% , there's no doubt about that

I like the support, the capabilities wich lead me to think this is a new way to make games on CV

It open sky actually

 

If you release the SGM in December, then count me in to be ready for the launch, with RollerBall ready to ship the day the SGM get release!

 

I also a project in the pipe with Russ, .... A Ninja game wich would just be a perfect candidate for the SGM

 

There's also my Super Action Racing game wich would also be perfect with the SGM

 

 

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As I already said...

 

I'll be supporting the SGM 100% , there's no doubt about that

I like the support, the capabilities wich lead me to think this is a new way to make games on CV

It open sky actually

 

If you release the SGM in December, then count me in to be ready for the launch, with RollerBall ready to ship the day the SGM get release!

 

I also a project in the pipe with Russ, .... A Ninja game wich would just be a perfect candidate for the SGM

 

There's also my Super Action Racing game wich would also be perfect with the SGM

 

 

Hey JF I sent you a few PM's have you had a chance to read them?

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Ok, just so that I understand, why are you guys suggesting me this? In the end any of those services are going to cost you some $5 extra. Do you feel that having a third party managing the order process would be that convenient?

I mean, I am just trying to understand if you would feel more confortable if we use such a service...

Edited by opcode
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Ok, just so that I understand, why are you guys suggesting me this? In the end any of those services are going to cost you some $5 extra. Do you feel that having a third party managing the order process would be that convenient?

I mean, I am just trying to understand if you would feel more confortable if we use such a service...

 

They're probably suggesting it as yet another way to get the word out on the project.

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Ok, just so that I understand, why are you guys suggesting me this? In the end any of those services are going to cost you some $5 extra. Do you feel that having a third party managing the order process would be that convenient?

I mean, I am just trying to understand if you would feel more confortable if we use such a service...

 

They're probably suggesting it as yet another way to get the word out on the project.

 

That's the reason why I suggested it, simply to get more exposure. The whole Star Castle experience left an impression on me. Of the + $20,000 USD he raised, I'm sure the majority of the funds were raised by 'non-hobbyist' folks (people not affiliated with atariage). I don't really know how it works, but if the fee is worth the exposure, I'd think it would be a good idea. And with a higher production run, perhaps the overall unit cost might go down. This run requires 80 people, from what I've read in this post, and to make the run happen you'd need them all to pre-pay to some extent.

 

Then again, what if it's a huge success and you end up with far more people than you expected?...that could be a possibility as well, and could make a lot more work to get more units ready. Since you've stated this is a non-profit project, you might lose some of that spirit if you get too many people jumping onboard. Maybe the next run might be more appropriate for that level, who knows. At any rate, I wish you success.

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My two cents -- the more outside people that are involved, the more likely for screwups to happen...

 

As far as spreading the word, the SGM will have no value to anyone who doesn't own a ColecoVision or ADAM. I think the Coleco community is sufficiently large to spread the word. My concern would be closet ColecoVision players who have a machine, but no idea places like AtariAge exist or that people are still producing software and hardware for the machine.

 

Perhaps posting messages in the video game section of Craig's List might be a way to spread the word....if not for the SGM, then maybe for the Opcode Club, which in turn would tell people about the SGM...

 

Personally, I would not turn control of collecting the money over to a third party, especially if there is a fee involved.

Edited by jblenkle
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Perhaps posting messages in the video game section of Craig's List might be a way to spread the word....if not for the SGM, then maybe for the Opcode Club, which in turn would tell people about the SGM...

 

Probably not the best place to get the word out, about anything...

 

Its good for what its good for (sold a car a few years back) but I don't know if you'd want to advertise something like this there. I'm sure enough of us are members of other forums and could spread the word, if need be.

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