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The hijacked Odyssey Market


Rev. Rob
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market manipulation:

 

Market manipulation describes a deliberate attempt to interfere with the free and fair operation of the market and create artificial, false or misleading appearances with respect to the price of, or market for, a security, commodity or currency. Market manipulation is prohibited in the United States under Section 9 of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, and in Australia under Section s 1041A of the Corporations Act 2001. The Act defines market manipulation as transactions which create an artificial price or maintain an artificial price for a tradable security.

 

Market manipulation can occur in multiple ways:

 

Pools

 

"Agreements, often written, among a group of traders to delegate authority to a single manager to trade in a specific stock for a specific period of time and then to share in the resulting profits or losses."

 

Churning

 

"When a trader places both buy and sell orders at about the same price. The increase in activity is intended to attract additional investors, and increase the price."

 

Runs

 

"When a group of traders create activity or rumors in order to drive the price of a security up." An example is the Guinness share-trading fraud of the 1980s. In the US, this activity is usually referred to as painting the tape.

 

Ramping (the market)

 

"Actions designed to artificially raise the market price of listed securities and to give the impression of voluminous trading, in order to make a quick profit."

 

Wash trade

 

"Selling and repurchasing the same or substantially the same security for the purpose of generating activity and increasing the price"

 

Bear raid

 

"Attempting to push the price of a stock down by heavy selling or short selling."

Edited by revolutionika
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Actually.....it's WORTH what you can sell it for. (always has been, for everything, that's why Ebay hurt so many collectors markets....the true value of manythings became known for fact, instead of what the previously tiny handfull of "collectors" would try to push them as)

 

If he's massively inflateing prices cause he has nothing better to do than buy all the stock he can, fix it up (or whatever) and resell it for massive prices, I see nothing wrong with that. There's nothing to my knowledge illegal about doing that.

 

It does bug me when it happens, I'd like for instance to get a Jag CD some day, but Sweetstuff4U buys everything so you can't get one for under $200 (and he/she doesn't even guarantee it to work or antyhing. Yeah, it sucks, but I figure, someday one will slip through the cracks, or I'll luck out on one either here or from some IRL friend.

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Whether it's "wrong, immoral, illegal or what-not" doesn't matter to me in the least. What does is the fact the this sort of pratice ruins it for the average guy that just want to play and enjoy the games. This Dick, Sweetstuff4U and everyone else that grabs everything up like that are just greedy jerks. Plain and simple.

Edited by darthkur
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People can charge whatever they want for stuff. Nothing crooked about that. It is kind of silly when people gripe about Ebay prices. If you don't like the price, then don't buy it. That being said, I don't think this is a real great business model. Check his completed listings and feedback. He has only sold a few in the past few months, and he is no doubt sitting on a ton of inventory.

 

 

I have to stand in on this one for the Reverand with a very blunt statement...

"I hate that Ebay even has prices!"they have blocked out the highest bidders...so why not block out the ending prices of items? (Would that work?)

There are so many local stores in my area that sell games and have no idea what to sell them for...so they turn to ebay....Ebay is a place to get items you wouldnt see in your area..or hard to find stuff....Hard to find stuff goes for a fair price...stuff you dont see in your area...means you might live in Utah..I been there...There is no where to find video games....But I found them..>!

There are several store owners that see you can buy video games at a higher price because ebay has them high..So they post items for sale...buy them themselves and then charge as much as they want....When you question why A boxed ET is 30 bucks..they say "Check Ebay if you think it can be found cheaper.>!"

I had a local business owner come to me and He said "I have been told you know the most out of anyone about games and what they sell for...Will you make me a price guide to go by?"

I told him he couldnt pay me enough and He started buying games and selling them with no guidance...then he went to ebay...even now he doesnt sell games in his store anymore, because he realized he didnt have clue....

 

(Side note: I once told the CEO of a game store that I could single handedly save his game business....he blocked me from facebook, but all he needs to do is get some guys together that know the old stuff and start selling and trading for old stuff again...dont hack the prices and dont sell good games 3 for 5 bucks..this only leaves you with sports games!)

 

I am sure that someone has wrote a book on the ebay scammers that are out there...I just locate that store and then they go on my "You don't Get my Money List"

 

I just located a new store this past weekend that will no longer get my money....

 

Its life...If that guy wants to charge outrageous prices...Im sure no one here would buy his items, but for little Jonnie in podunk Iowa? Who is gonna hold his hand and show him the way......"Maybe there is no one better than God himself?"

Edited by Christopher T Leach
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Well I don't believe that this is morally right but it is legal and a strategy that helped build capitalism. Something is only as valuable as what someone will pay - to a point.

Ask yourself this - if you saw an incredibly rare game at a flea market for $5 that you knew a serious collector would pay $1500 for - do you buy it? , or do you tell the seller what it is worth ? do you keep it for yourself ? or do you onsell it at profit?

 

What is more of a concern to me is the monopoly aspect - is the buyer being too aggressive?

 

I bring this up as a result of something that happened to me 6 months ago - I was searching for a boxed VCS to add to my collection (it is no secret that I am attempting to collect a boxed example of every released console) - I located one in the UK on evilbay and won it at a reasonable price - then the seller contacted me and said that "he dropped it on the way to the post office" and would not sell it to me in that condition - ok fair enough I thought - then I won one from the US - and guess what happened - same story - different seller , different continent......mmmmm

Both these sellers had disclosed email details on their accounts. I eventually got one out of Canada - this seller had a "silent" email. My suspicion is that there are dealers/collectors out there that are watching evilbay and contacting sellers , then offering them a higher price then what was on evilbay - getting them to then claim no sale due to faulty item. In both cases I offered to take both products as is as I was mainly after good packaging - both declined saying that the items had been disposed of.......mmmmmmmm.

 

Same thing happened with an Odessey 2 just the other day mmmmmm.

 

This is in direct contrevention of evilbay policy and maybe illegal as such - but unfortunately what our Odessey friend is doing is not.

 

Moral of the story is DON'T PAY HIGH PRICES - it just encourages this crap.

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Well I don't believe that this is morally right...

 

Which is my point...

 

My suspicion is that there are dealers/collectors out there that are watching evilbay and contacting sellers , then offering them a higher price then what was on evilbay - getting them to then claim no sale due to faulty item.

 

This is exactly what is happening. It happened to me on an Odyssey once, on a Channel F once, and even on a R-Zone once. :!:

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Sounds mostly like sour grapes to me.....

 

Yeah of course it's annoying that you can't get an Odyssey for next to nothing anymore but I don't remember reading anywhere that it's a godgiven right that everyone should be able to buy anything they want for as little as possible? I too would love to be able to buy an Odyssey for $20 but that's not going to happen, welcome the capitalism and the free market. Someone found out that people would pay good money to buy old videogame systems, they started buying up all they could find, refurbishing and selling on for profit. What's the problem? I thought that was what the great US of A was all about? Surely you're not proposing there be rules and regulations to how much someone is allowed to charge for something they own? Surely you're not proposing any one individual can only own a set amount of a certain product? Surely you're not proposing there's something wrong with a free unregulated market? That would be like proposing.......communism :ponder: :-o :o

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Sounds mostly like sour grapes to me.....

 

Yeah of course it's annoying that you can't get an Odyssey for next to nothing anymore...

 

I'm going to stop you right there.

 

Oh wait, this next part is good for me to include too...

 

but I don't remember reading anywhere that it's a godgiven right that everyone should be able to buy anything they want for as little as possible? I too would love to be able to buy an Odyssey for $20 but that's not going to happen, welcome the capitalism and the free market.

 

First, Odyssey systems have never been "next to nothing." The fair market value for a complete Odyssey is $130 to $250 depending on the condition of the console, the manufacturing run, and what extras are included (like Percepts). David Winter has a pretty good write up on this.

 

Second, I call bullshit on the "sour grapes" critique. I have a complete Odyssey. A damn good one. If you want, see some pics on my collection thread. I also paid market price for the thing, not market price plus a 200% mark up.

 

Someone found out that people would pay good money to buy old videogame systems, they started buying up all they could find, refurbishing and selling on for profit. What's the problem? I thought that was what the great US of A was all about?

 

I would first point out to you that the "great US of A" does have these pesky anti-trust laws to prevent monopolies. Your point is vague, murky, and perhaps flat out ignorant.

 

As many have pointed out, this person's actions fly in the face of free market capitalism, (which you seem to think you're an advocate of, yet demonstrate no understand of), because their stock doesn't sell.

 

As for refurbishing, that bit was made-up. None of them are refurbished. He was just lying to justify the extremely high expense.

 

Surely you're not proposing there be rules and regulations to how much someone is allowed to charge for something they own? Surely you're not proposing any one individual can only own a set amount of a certain product? Surely you're not proposing there's something wrong with a free unregulated market? That would be like proposing.......communism :ponder: :-o :o

 

This bit is idiotic, surely.

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I'm going to stop you right there.

 

Oh wait, this next part is good for me to include too...

 

First, Odyssey systems have never been "next to nothing." The fair market value for a complete Odyssey is $130 to $250 depending on the condition of the console, the manufacturing run, and what extras are included (like Percepts). David Winter has a pretty good write up on this.

 

Second, I call bullshit on the "sour grapes" critique. I have a complete Odyssey. A damn good one. If you want, see some pics on my collection thread. I also paid market price for the thing, not market price plus a 200% mark up.

 

I would first point out to you that the "great US of A" does have these pesky anti-trust laws to prevent monopolies. Your point is vague, murky, and perhaps flat out ignorant.

 

As many have pointed out, this person's actions fly in the face of free market capitalism, (which you seem to think you're an advocate of, yet demonstrate no understand of), because their stock doesn't sell.

 

As for refurbishing, that bit was made-up. None of them are refurbished. He was just lying to justify the extremely high expense.

 

This bit is idiotic, surely.

 

Oooh, seems i stepped on your toes here, touchy subject huh?

 

No, Odysseys have seldom been next to nothing so I don't see why we should expect to buy them cheap nowadays? In your eyes the fair market value of a complete Odyssey is $130 to $250 and since David Winter says so, that's the way it is. Well you see in my world, reality as they call it, an obsolete, old videogame console is worth just about as much as someone is willing to pay for it, no less, no more. This is a rule of thumb to be used with almost anything being put up for sale. You don't want to buy? Then don't, noone is holding a gun to your head demanding you buy the damned things.

 

You can call bullshit on whatever the hell you want, I really don't give a flying f**k. It's so nice to hear that you already have a complete, and in your own words, "damn good one". It's also really nice that you paid "market price" for it, market price would be what they were costing when you bought yours then, nice like I said. It still doesn't change the fact that it all sounds like a bunch of sour grapes "bohohohooo he bought all the cheap systems and now he's trying to sell them for profit, he's such an asshat!"

Like I said, I don't remember reading the rules where it says you're not allowed to buy something cheap and sell it on for a profit, as large a profit as you possibly can if you feel like it.

 

Yeah you do have anti-trust laws in America, somehow though, I highly doubt they would come into play regarding someone buying up 30-40 year old gamesystems and selling them on for profit. I may of course be wrong, since I'm both vague, murky and ignorant I'm sure that you, being the highly regarded and all-knowing Rev.Rob will set me straight. Preferable by quoting from the part of the american anti-trust laws where it says "You are not allowed to buy all the old game systems you want and try to sell them and make a profit", I am soooo looking forward to being educated in american law by you!

 

Contrary to what you believe I'm not trying to advocate anything, what I AM doing is telling you that this person is doing absolutely nothing legally wrong in any way, shape or form. But let me tell you about another aspect of free market capitalism. That is where you, as a consumer, have the right to refuse to buy from a person or business with whom you don't agree, ever heard of that? So if you don't buy what he's selling and noone else buys what he's selling then he won't be selling anything and the free market worked. If someone does buy from him at the prices they agree upon, guess what, the free market worked again.

 

What you are proposing is that there would be some sort of priceroof above which you're not allowed to buy and sell anything. That, on the other hand, has absolutely nothing to do with free market capitalism.

 

Thanks for your wonderful reply! It's nice to see that you managed to call me vague, murky, ignorant and idiotic in one small body of text. On the other hand, I'd have expected nothing less from you.

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Rev, that would be immoral and unethical.

 

 

Not really. Sending the prices sky high when a disaster strikes is rather helpful. Not only does it prevent people taking too much in surplus (thus leaving none for others), it also is an added incentive for the shop owner (or should I say STREET VENDOR now) to restock those items.

 

But then that was made illegal, because people failed to realize that being poor and not being able to afford water is the poor person's own damn fault.

 

 

Oh, and Rev, saying it would be $100 for a bottle of tap water is rediculous, it should be a gallon of tap water. That's better now, isn't it ;)

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Forget to take your meds, much?

 

 

In your eyes

 

Again, I have to stop you early on in your rant. I was talking about "market value," not an arbitrary value that I placed upon an item. You must be confused, or uneducated (maybe both?). Whichever the case may be, I'll try and help you out. Market value is determined by the prices that the plurality of consumers are willing to pay for an item. Traditionally, the value of items is determined at auction, and eBay is no exception. Fortunately, by tracking the sale of Odyssey consoles at auction as David Winter has done, it's easy to determine the market value of these items.

 

You can call bullshit on whatever the hell you want, I really don't give a flying f**k.

 

Well, not to call you a liar, but you're a liar. Clearly you care so much that I triggered quite an unbalanced, profanity laden little rant from you. Out of curiosity, if you're so angry sitting wherever you are that you feel the need to curse, then why not just write "fuck"? Why try to mask it? What on Earth is the point of that? It's just childish.

 

Anyways, I cut out the rest of your rant for three reason: First, you weren't speaking sense. Second, you were pretty far off topic. And third, I really didn't feel like reading it.

 

To sum up though, no one (that's two words, in case you were wondering) accused the douche bag of doing anything illegal, only immoral, unethical, and downright stupid.

Edited by Rev. Rob
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I had a local game store that paid way more than they should for used games, built up a huge inventory and charged probably 5-10x what the games were worth. We're talking $35 for common old super mario 3. Lots of neat stuff there though, and they were the only show in town that sold anything older than 3-4 years old. Toward the end they started selling dirt cheap online trying to make rent, but since they refused to lower their local prices, and made less money than they paid for their stock online, they folded right up when the play-n-trades started coming in.

 

They were trying to artificially fix the market, but since they didn't have anything close to a monopoly, and their prices were well above reason, the attempt failed and the market corrected itself. Same as it will with odyssey.

 

At no point in my story did I harass them personally or post any conversations with them in public forums. Though I did make a blog post about them exporting games for pennies while keeping local prices insane--of course I was snapping up their ebay lots so quickly I couldn't really stay mad at them. I think my overall average purchase price was $0.51/game during that period.

Edited by Reaperman
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Forget to take your meds, much?

 

Again, I have to stop you early on in your rant. I was talking about "market value," not an arbitrary value that I placed upon an item. You must be confused, or uneducated (maybe both?). Whichever the case may be, I'll try and help you out. Market value is determined by the prices that the plurality of consumers are willing to pay for an item. Traditionally, the value of items is determined at auction, and eBay is no exception. Fortunately, by tracking the sale of Odyssey consoles at auction as David Winter has done, it's easy to determine the market value of these items.

 

Well, not to call you a liar, but you're a liar. Clearly you care so much that I triggered quite an unbalanced, profanity laden little rant from you. Out of curiosity, if you're so angry sitting wherever you are that you feel the need to curse, then why not just write "fuck"? Why try to mask it? What on Earth is the point of that? It's just childish.

 

Anyways, I cut out the rest of your rant for three reason: First, you weren't speaking sense. Second, you were pretty far off topic. And third, I really didn't feel like reading it.

 

To sum up though, no one (that's two words, in case you were wondering) accused the douche bag of doing anything illegal, only immoral, unethical, and downright stupid.

 

Ah yes, I knew that this was the kind of response I was going to get since you're so quick to resort to name calling and insults as soon as someone doesn't see everything the way you do. It's your usual style of debate so nothing new under the sun.

 

Just in case you were really worried I'm happy to let you know that I am not on any sort of medication and implying that someone has mental problems because they don't have the same opinion on everything that you do really is quite pathetic. But once again, I'd expect nothing less from you.

 

Yeah, you're speaking of "market value", a value that you and the G-O-D of the Odyssey, David Winter, have put on everything Odysseyrelated. Contrary to what you believe, the market value of any commodity is what a consumer is willing to pay for it, no more, no less. By tracking the sale of Odysseys for some time DW has been able to see how much Odysseys have sold for during that period of time, nothing more. His wonderful research into the subject gives us nothing more than a historical reference as to how much an Odyssey cost to buy at auction at a certain point in time. It has absolutely nothing to do with how much something is worth tomorrow or the day after, no matter how much you would like it to.

The market value of an Odyssey is what someone is willing to pay for it at the given point in time, it's totally beside the point how much an Odyssey used to cost or how much you think it should cost.

 

I am so sorry to disappoint you but no, I really don't give a damn how much you paid for your Odysseystuff, when you bought it or if you feel good about yourself for having it. You think that my post was "an unbalanced profanity laden little rant", I'm pretty sure most of those reading it would have seen it as a response to an arrogant person that does his best to belittle others and make it seem that he's some sort of great source of knowledge of all things videogamesrelated. Yeah you're right I used a baaaaaad word to get my point through, if that hurt your precious feelings I am truly sorry. I must say though, that I'm pretty sure that most people would find my use of the word "fuck" less disturbing than your repeated libelous statements regarding my mental health, your repeated accusations of me being ignorant, oh and not to forget the fact that you felt you had nothing better to do than correct me for writing "noone" when it should be "no one". Yes, that of course was the most important part of my post and because I didn't write "no one" you probably couldn't understand any of what I wrote. I am so sorry for english not being my first language and I will of course be very, very thourough when posting so as not to let any errors creep into the text in the future........

 

If I were you I would seriously think before next replying to someone telling them they're stupid, ignorant or mentally ill for not agreeing with everything you think. I know you won't do that since if you were to stop doing that how else would you go about feeling important?

 

On the other hand you probably won't read this far into my post since in your eyes I'm just stupid, ignorant, mentally ill, don't speak sense and you don't feel like reading what I write, oh and of course I'm off topic which you haven't been in any of your posts in this thread.

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the old man can charge what he wants. i can tell you that i would and have paid extra for items just because i knew that they would be in great condition. besides, he actually sounds like a pretty cool guy. i may consider making a purchase from him

 

edit:

oh yeah, robotkingnes. i actually have bought from him before. no complaints

Edited by opeygon
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On the other hand you probably won't read this far into my post since in your eyes I'm just stupid, ignorant, mentally ill, don't speak sense and you don't feel like reading what I write, oh and of course I'm off topic which you haven't been in any of your posts in this thread.

 

 

Actually, I was scrolling up the page and read this part first, and wanted let you know that this is the only part of your post that I read. Good points!

 

Edit:

 

Okay, I couldn't resist temptation, and I went back and read the whole thing. Let me try to get back on topic with you.

 

You say this:

 

Yeah, you're speaking of "market value", a value that you and the G-O-D of the Odyssey, David Winter, have put on everything Odysseyrelated. Contrary to what you believe, the market value of any commodity is what a consumer is willing to pay for it, no more, no less. By tracking the sale of Odysseys for some time DW has been able to see how much Odysseys have sold for during that period of time, nothing more. His wonderful research into the subject gives us nothing more than a historical reference as to how much an Odyssey cost to buy at auction at a certain point in time. It has absolutely nothing to do with how much something is worth tomorrow or the day after, no matter how much you would like it to.

The market value of an Odyssey is what someone is willing to pay for it at the given point in time, it's totally beside the point how much an Odyssey used to cost or how much you think it should cost.

 

See, I tried to educate you, you didn't listen and now I'm going to try again.

 

Let's start with the concept of "market value."

 

You can take any item, doesn't have to be an Odyssey. The average price that the plurality of consumers is willing to pay for that item is the market value.

 

Got that?

 

No one is god, no one is bragging, it's just a fact. Got that?

 

If you can get the concept of what market value is and how it's determined, and get past your incredulous preconceptions, then we're ready to move on.

 

Now, let's use a scenario to establish the concept. I want to be really sure that you can understand.

 

In our scenario it's the day after hurricane Katrina and I go down to NOLA with bottles of water, the market value of them being about $0.90 each. However, I sell them for $100 each.

 

Does that change the value of a bottle of water from $0.90 to $100? No, of course not. It still costs the same for the manufacturer to produce, and it still costs the same for the merchant to resell, and the plurality of consumers in the United States, in fact, the vast majority, are still buying the bottles at $0.90.

 

Got that concept? I hope so, because now I'm moving on to the next point.

 

Was it illegal of me to sell $0.90 bottles of water for $100? No. Did the consumers who purchased them have a choice? Yes. Was it incredibly unethical and immoral for me to rip these people off? Absolutely.

 

Here's the next lesson:

 

It's immoral and unethical to take advantage of market situations to rip people off.

 

In my scenario, I am ripping people off by taking advantage of a water shortage. In this situation, the seller, Dick, is ripping people off by selling items (not just Odysseys), at 200% to 1000% above market value. He's an unethical, and immoral person.

 

If you're one of those types of people who don't believe anything unless God says it's so, if you need a Biblical example, see the money changers story, where only Hebrew money was allowed for use in the Temple, so money changers were exchanging other forms of currency to Hebrew currency at rates of around 300% above the market value of the money.

 

The other reason why I bring this up, it's that it's very difficult to argue what the market value of currency is.

 

So, you see, intentionally ripping people off is immoral and unethical. I hope you were able to understand that.

 

Here's the next lesson:

 

Capitalism, and why selling goods at prices above the market value is stupid.

 

Let's use Xbox 360 games for our example. Let's assume that the average market value of an Xbox 360 game is $60. But I open a store, and I sell my Xbox 360 games for $120 dollars, a significant mark-up over the market value.

 

Do I have the right to try to maximize my profits? Absolutely. Is it illegal? Certainly not.

 

How do you suppose my new business is going to do?

 

If your answer was anything other than "pretty fucking poor," then you're wrong. I'll get my ass kicked in the market, and I'll sell very little stock. This is the same point as what other posters have made, which is that the seller in question, Dick, isn't selling much of his stock, and is probably going to be forced to reduce prices. Or, as another poster in this thread put it, he'll die.

 

Now, let's move on the the lesson that I think went way over your head from the onset:

 

Advertising and Free Market Capitalism

 

The predominate form of advertising in a capitalistic market is word of mouth. I'm participating in the market by spreading the word that this seller is, in short, a crook. And by having this knowledge, a number of people will avoid doing business with this unethical seller. That's not acting god-like, that's participating in the free market.

 

Got it?

 

Just in case you were really worried I'm happy to let you know that I am not on any sort of medication...

 

Anyone who can get, you know, actually angry and irate from an Internet message board has some serious issues. I'm sure you're generally good person, and I'm sure that there are people in your life who care about you. And there may even be people who depend on you for their own wellbeing. For your sake and for theirs, I really do hope you get those anger issues under control, and get some help if needed.

Edited by Rev. Rob
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Seems that the guy is trying to resell these things, I said it before, to cover his own expenses in fixing them. He said he pays a guy $100/hr to fix them (that is over-charging, I as a tech charge $35/hr) so that guy is the one getting ripped off, and he's passing it on to the buyers of the O2's.

 

Just don't buy from him, he will get the point. IMHO if sales are not 50% of what you put in, given a certain period of time, it isn't worth doing. His particular numbers I don't know, but I will be t that it's less than 50%.

 

BTW 50% is extremely conservative, most sellers want 150% of what is put in at a minimum.

 

Also, makes me wish I was his tech that was fixing the consoles. I'd gladly only charge him HALF of what he's paying his current tech.

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I think this thread is a prime example of weak logical points.

 

1st weak logical point. The Katrina water bottle seller for $100. Water is what we call a need. Without it we die. The original odyssey however is as far from a need that you will see.

 

2nd weak logical point. This guy has a monopoly of Odyssey systems. Really now? This guy probably has 1 percent of all odyssey systems known to exist, and probably this number is a lot lower. What this guy at the moment has control of is the price of available Odyssey systems. Fact is if someone wants an odyssey system, all they need to do is win one in an auction. Since this guy is only paying market value for this stuff, all one has to do is place a bid about $10 over market value. All this guy is really doing is delaying the instant gratification of having being able to buy a system right away.

 

If a person is patient they will eventually be able to get what they want, and there is nothing that anyone can do about it.

Edited by homerwannabee
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Just don't buy from him, he will get the point. IMHO if sales are not 50% of what you put in, given a certain period of time, it isn't worth doing. His particular numbers I don't know, but I will be t that it's less than 50%.

 

Well said, which is what I'm trying to do, spread the word so that people don't buy from them.

 

As a side note, thanks to everyone who has let me know that you won't buy from them.

 

Also, makes me wish I was his tech that was fixing the consoles. I'd gladly only charge him HALF of what he's paying his current tech.

 

I mean, come on. You don't really believe his "$100 an hour" tech story, do you? ;)

 

I think this thread is a prime example of weak logical points.

 

1st weak logical point. The Katrina water bottle seller for $100. Water is what we call a need. Without it we die. The original odyssey however is as far from a need that you will see.

 

That doesn't make any sense. I don't think you were following. It was a scenario to illistrate a point. You can replace "water" with any commodity and NOLA with any location. Either way, ripping people off is unethical.

 

What this guy at the moment has control of is the price of available Odyssey systems.

 

That's true. That basically puts him in control of the available market.

 

Fact is if someone wants an odyssey system, all they need to do is win one in an auction. Since this guy is only paying market value for this stuff, all one has to do is place a bid about $10 over market value. All this guy is really doing is delaying the instant gratification of having being able to buy a system right away.

 

But the problem is that Dick is way overbids on items that come up in auction, he wins them, and marks them up.

 

It really sucks for every collector who doesn't have an Odyssey but who would like to collect for that system.

Edited by Rev. Rob
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Eh, first, I seriously doubt the guy is fixing jack shit up (let alone paying someone to do it for him)

 

Second, there's a huge difference between "need" and "want"

 

Third, as I said, the value of the item is what a person will pay to buy it. And that's largely dependant on patience. If your patient, and don't mind paying a little extra, you can put a bid for quiet a bit over this whole rumored "value" of the system thing, and outbid the guy, and still get one for less than what he is selling it for. Say he's selling the console for $1000, and it's *erhem* "value" is only $200....well....put a bid of like $500 on it, problem solved.

 

If that's to much, well, it sounds to me like bickering over "boohoohoo, I don't have the money" to which, I'd just have to say, that's really the individual buyer's problem. Tough it out and get over it. Stop waisting money on things you don't need (like 40 year old game systems) and you have more money to buy things you really want (or really do need)

 

[edit]Oh yeah....and fourth, this topic is getting funny as hell, why not just post a pic of each of your dicks and get it over with? (oh yeah...that would probably be an instant thread lock, don't do that :lol: )

Edited by Video
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What this guy is doing sounds like textbook market manipulation, and is more or less equivalent to what ticket scalpers do, i.e. buying up large quantities of event tickets and then selling them at a massive markup. Sometimes market manipulation is legal as in this case; in other cases, it's a crime, as can be the case when you're dealing with the stock market or ticket scalping. (It can even be a capital crime: I believe price gouging in wartime or in crisis situations was at one time punishable by execution, and probably still is in some places.)

 

But I don't think there's any room for controversy over the question of whether it interferes with the free and fair behavior of the market. Clearly, it does, since "cornering the market" on something is, by definition, market manipulation. Sometimes the market is able to punish the offender, and force him to either hoard the commodity in question (which isn't practical with some commodities), or to exit the market with massive losses.

 

The way a person can do this ethically is if they genuinely believe that a particular commodity is undervalued and likely to appreciate to its fair market value. But trying to drive the price of something up by cornering the market is, by definition, interfering with the free market. The market requires competition to operate, and can't work when one person can set the price for something.

 

That being said, I'm not really down with name-calling and treating the guy rudely. If people want to punish him for his behavior, the best thing of all would be to try to find a way to divert the flow of the market around him, so that he's left holding an expensive stash of Odysseys that he can only sell at a loss. How to do that? Damned if I know.

 

If you find ticket scalping objectionable, then this guy's behavior is too. Conversely, if you don't have a problem with what this guy is doing, then I trust you won't complain when you can't find a fair ticket for a concert or sports event.

Edited by thegoldenband
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