kogden Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 That's so awesome! Do you think that a HyperCard clone could be squeezed on a 128K machine, 320K maybe? Was one of my favorite toys back when I had a Mac Plus. They had a version for the IIgs as well. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/154520-new-gui-for-the-atari-8-bit/page/133/#findComment-3154642 Share on other sites More sharing options...
w1k Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 hmm, why do you dont start with basics? disk access, folders, copying files, etc? Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/154520-new-gui-for-the-atari-8-bit/page/133/#findComment-3154723 Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted January 16, 2015 Author Share Posted January 16, 2015 Do you think that a HyperCard clone could be squeezed on a 128K machine, 320K maybe? Was one of my favorite toys back when I had a Mac Plus. They had a version for the IIgs as well. No idea. The way to do big applications will be via multiple, interconnected 16KB banks of code and data compiled at $4000. Then only limit then will be the number of available banks. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/154520-new-gui-for-the-atari-8-bit/page/133/#findComment-3154784 Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted January 19, 2015 Author Share Posted January 19, 2015 Its always fun to make videos for atari8warez It took a hell of a long time, but finally I can offer some kind of response: Unfortunately, although the system remains perfectly responsive (as we always asserted it would), I can't show too much else going on yet because there's a bug in the timed sleep routines which sometimes results in one of several Profiler tasks dying for good when windows are moved around, and it's a complete and absolute nightmare to debug, since the tasks on timed wake-ups are held as a linked list of relative values. Needs fixing for the demo... 8 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/154520-new-gui-for-the-atari-8-bit/page/133/#findComment-3157262 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prodatron Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Just crazy! I think it's the first time that something like this has been done on a 6502 system, isn't it? I wonder what the C64 guys will say?! Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/154520-new-gui-for-the-atari-8-bit/page/133/#findComment-3157327 Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted January 19, 2015 Author Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) Hopefully "Shit: someone get coding!". They've (justifiably) rested on the laurels of the excellent GEOS for long enough, I think. Edited January 19, 2015 by flashjazzcat 3 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/154520-new-gui-for-the-atari-8-bit/page/133/#findComment-3157340 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prodatron Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I agree! I wonder if it would be possible to port it to the C64. As it can do exactly the same graphics. But the memory banking would be a huge problem probably? Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/154520-new-gui-for-the-atari-8-bit/page/133/#findComment-3157412 Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted January 19, 2015 Author Share Posted January 19, 2015 I don't know a thing about C64 RAM banking... nor cart banking. Much certainly depends on that. The CPU is clocked somewhat slower too, so performance would be hit. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/154520-new-gui-for-the-atari-8-bit/page/133/#findComment-3157422 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Usotsuki Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I'd be interested to see it on an Apple //e. xD Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/154520-new-gui-for-the-atari-8-bit/page/133/#findComment-3157529 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle22 Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 I am a purist (among other things), and I want this to be Atari only, or at least Atari first. There is no need to port this to other inferior systems. The only benefit I can see is if it was eventually made to support 65c816 CPUs, (for Rapidus and the like), then it might be nice on an Apple 2gs. Let's have the Atari version first, then the 816 version (for Atari 816s), then think about the rest. 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/154520-new-gui-for-the-atari-8-bit/page/133/#findComment-3157555 Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted January 20, 2015 Author Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) I would not for a single moment consider coding for any other platform first. The porting talk is just technical speculation, and getting the stock A8 version done is a sufficiently mammoth task on its own. But it's fun to wonder nevertheless. Other machines may support the same graphical resolution and use the same or similar CPU, but we're still relying on some of the Atari's unique features here, aside from raw clock speed. EDIT: I think (hope) I nailed the sleep timer problem: looks like it was a bug in my funky list pointer code which moves forward and backward pointers between the X and Y registers when deleting nodes. EDIT: Still broken... Edited January 20, 2015 by flashjazzcat Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/154520-new-gui-for-the-atari-8-bit/page/133/#findComment-3157584 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNameOfTheGame Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) I'd be interested to see it on an Apple //e. xD Let's see this going on our Ataris first hehe. Plz don't overwhelm the maestro. Surgery is going on atm Edited January 20, 2015 by TheNameOfTheGame 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/154520-new-gui-for-the-atari-8-bit/page/133/#findComment-3157739 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Usotsuki Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Well, I'm not THAT bad a coder myself, though I don't think I could come close to what he's doing. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/154520-new-gui-for-the-atari-8-bit/page/133/#findComment-3157790 Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted January 20, 2015 Author Share Posted January 20, 2015 Slept on it and realised it's a contention issue. The scheduler is capable of pulling a sleeping task off the wakeup queue while the kernel is busy adding a task to the queue: result - mangled pointers. 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/154520-new-gui-for-the-atari-8-bit/page/133/#findComment-3157845 Share on other sites More sharing options...
pirx Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 pun intended ;] 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/154520-new-gui-for-the-atari-8-bit/page/133/#findComment-3157883 Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted January 20, 2015 Author Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) pun intended ;] Never noticed that - good spot. Unfortunately my latest diagnosis was also wrong... Ack... wrong: txa sta Process.NextWakeUp,y lda Process.PrevWakeUp,x sta Process.PrevWakeUp,y pha tya sta Process.PrevWakeUp,x pla beq AtHead tay txa sta Process.NextWakeUp,y rts AtHead sty Process.WakeUpHead rts Right: txa sta Process.NextWakeUp,y lda Process.PrevWakeUp,x sta Process.PrevWakeUp,y pha tya sta Process.PrevWakeUp,x pla beq AtHead tax ; previous node tya ; new node sta Process.NextWakeUp,x rts AtHead sty Process.WakeUpHead rts .endl On entry, Y holds PID being added to the wake-up list, and X holds the insertion point in the list. I'd have gotten rid of the previous node pointer, but it makes deleting nodes much faster, since there's no need to walk the list. Anyway: hopefully that's the bug. Edited January 20, 2015 by flashjazzcat 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/154520-new-gui-for-the-atari-8-bit/page/133/#findComment-3157900 Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted January 20, 2015 Author Share Posted January 20, 2015 Left four profilers running and they were still going when I came back seven hours later, so presumably all's good. 5 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/154520-new-gui-for-the-atari-8-bit/page/133/#findComment-3158114 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kogden Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) I am a purist (among other things), and I want this to be Atari only, or at least Atari first. There is no need to port this to other inferior systems. The only benefit I can see is if it was eventually made to support 65c816 CPUs, (for Rapidus and the like), then it might be nice on an Apple 2gs. Let's have the Atari version first, then the 816 version (for Atari 816s), then think about the rest. The IIgs had a GREAT GUI OS that was very similar to MacOS. Even has a full version of HyperCard and network support. Competing with that would be tough. And kind of pointless. There's already a decent library of software for it too. The C64 had GEOS. GEOS was available for the Apple II as well. The only real attempt at a full GUI environment for the Atari 8-bit was Diamond GOS, which was kinda cool but ultimately didn't perform real well nor had much in the way of significant software developed for it. It came pretty late in the game too. And with the way some things like the cursor are done, wouldn't a port to the C64 be kind of a pain anyway? I'd rather see this be Atari-specific and take advantage of everything the funky chipset has to offer personally. Compromises to go multi-platform would likely hurt performance. Edited January 20, 2015 by kogden Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/154520-new-gui-for-the-atari-8-bit/page/133/#findComment-3158231 Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted January 20, 2015 Author Share Posted January 20, 2015 (edited) Pragmatically speaking, it's worth noting that the IIGS GUI didn't support full multitasking (certainly not pre-emptive) and did the "desk accessory" thing. GEOS wasn't multitasking either; not only that but it didn't have movable windows in its original incarnation (many limitations were down to memory and code size, so are understandable and the product is still remarkable). So the existing GUIs on those systems aren't necessarily the final word on the matter. Practically speaking, however, I agree with the above. The Atari is the poor relation in terms of GUIs and I think the platform deserves our exclusive focus for the foreseeable future, especially since there's another twenty thousand lines or so of code still to write. Edited January 20, 2015 by flashjazzcat Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/154520-new-gui-for-the-atari-8-bit/page/133/#findComment-3158244 Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 I was wrong about the IIGS's OS: there was an add-on which made it preemptively multitask. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/154520-new-gui-for-the-atari-8-bit/page/133/#findComment-3158287 Share on other sites More sharing options...
popmilo Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I would not for a single moment consider coding for any other platform first. The porting talk is just technical speculation, and getting the stock A8 version done is a sufficiently mammoth task on its own. But it's fun to wonder nevertheless. As my first computer was C128, I can see gui like this working on it no problem. 128K ram, 2Mhz cpu + hardware sprites.... I'm proud of what we did with pointer drawing routine, but must admit pointer with hardware sprites is simple as nothing else We can think about porting once first usable applications are written for it... We'll have to wait couple more years so no hurry Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/154520-new-gui-for-the-atari-8-bit/page/133/#findComment-3158592 Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 Yes: any system with hi-res hardware sprites should have no trouble with the mouse pointer. What we did on the Atari was a means of overcoming lack of same. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/154520-new-gui-for-the-atari-8-bit/page/133/#findComment-3158600 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Is this not finished yet? You obviously lack the coding skillz of Pete (Him of Centron fame), I suggest you get him on board ASAP Jon.. Him and his minions will knock it out in a week..And do a cracking video for it.. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/154520-new-gui-for-the-atari-8-bit/page/133/#findComment-3158602 Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 If I counted days the way he does, I'd be way ahead of the curve right now. But let's not dirty the thread with such things. 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/154520-new-gui-for-the-atari-8-bit/page/133/#findComment-3158610 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mclaneinc Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Agreed.. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/154520-new-gui-for-the-atari-8-bit/page/133/#findComment-3158623 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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