flashjazzcat Posted February 2, 2015 Author Share Posted February 2, 2015 Bearing in mind you'll need an Incognito board to use this with an 800 (since the kernel goes in the RAM under the XL/XE OS), you'd need to enable ports 3 and 4 first. And as Prodatron says, it's trivial to implement support for this. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/154520-new-gui-for-the-atari-8-bit/page/135/#findComment-3168914 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellis Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 The mouse control is driver based, so a different port shouldn't be an issue at all! The problem is that POKEY's PORTB register is used for memory management XL or XE systems, while on the 400 and 800 used it was for the 3rd and 4th joysticks. From what I've been reading, I can't imagine that this GUI would work at all on a 48K system (such as the 800 or an expanded 400), and if PORTB is being used for joysticks, then it is most certainly not being used to access the uppermost 16K on 64K systems or any expanded memory on 130XE (or RAM upgraded) systems. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/154520-new-gui-for-the-atari-8-bit/page/135/#findComment-3168916 Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted February 2, 2015 Author Share Posted February 2, 2015 Incognito provides a dedicated register for ports 3 and 4, so no worries at all. 2 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/154520-new-gui-for-the-atari-8-bit/page/135/#findComment-3168924 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz73 Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Nice! I'm waiting to see if there are any Incognitos left from this run anyway, so this just got a little more awesome! Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/154520-new-gui-for-the-atari-8-bit/page/135/#findComment-3169038 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle22 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 I believe that the Incognito is the best Atari upgrade ever. I absolutely love mine. I have NOT been able to make joystick ports 3 & 4 work. If anyone has info, please let me know. Thanks Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/154520-new-gui-for-the-atari-8-bit/page/135/#findComment-3169183 Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 I tested this for Candle a year or more back and it may have involved a CPLD update at the time. I haven't kept any info about it unfortunately... Maybe one of the Incognito threads has some info. MrFish kindly gave the ROM a spin for me and sent a detailed crash report back. Already traced most problems back to a bug in the memory manager's FREE routine (which was - remarkably - decrementing the bank header's free page count rather then incrementing it for every page released; must have been on fire that day). I'm also working around a chewy issue with the auto-updating list boxes, which clear the item selection every time they're repopulated. I've come up with a kind of process hash code which will mean a task will always have a completely unique ID (distinct from the PID) so the Profiler can easily do incremental list updates (preserving the item selection bit unless the item is removed from the list). 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/154520-new-gui-for-the-atari-8-bit/page/135/#findComment-3169409 Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 What's the minimum effort I can get away with when building cart images of this demo? MaxFlash 1Mbit is a given since that's what I'm using for development, but what else? And I suppose Amiga and ST mouse versions, as per the previous one? Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/154520-new-gui-for-the-atari-8-bit/page/135/#findComment-3169750 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bob1200xl Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 65816? 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/154520-new-gui-for-the-atari-8-bit/page/135/#findComment-3169854 Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 Feel free to run it on one. 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/154520-new-gui-for-the-atari-8-bit/page/135/#findComment-3169858 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 No - anybody can run a GUI on a 16-bit chip such as the 65816. Let's go the difficult route and make this use 6502!!! Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/154520-new-gui-for-the-atari-8-bit/page/135/#findComment-3169868 Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 Yep: that's the whole point after all. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/154520-new-gui-for-the-atari-8-bit/page/135/#findComment-3169879 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle22 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 AFTER, and only after the 6502 version is perfected, I would love to see this thing fly on an 816. Just tweaking the blitter routine alone should be an improvement. Just a thought Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/154520-new-gui-for-the-atari-8-bit/page/135/#findComment-3169931 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 (edited) Feel free to run it on one. Thanks for the idea. The thing is, I just switched it over in Altirra, and you've got this thing running so well on a 6502 at this point that the 65816 hardly feels like an upgrade -- at least running it in this unoptimized state. All of the recent font and window rendering improvements have really made a difference. This bodes well in light of the same tests performed with the first demo you released. Edited February 4, 2015 by MrFish 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/154520-new-gui-for-the-atari-8-bit/page/135/#findComment-3169984 Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 AFTER, and only after the 6502 version is perfected, I would love to see this thing fly on an 816. Just tweaking the blitter routine alone should be an improvement. Just a thought What I'm saying is you can run it on anything you like now. No illegal Sally opcodes are used and no cycle counting employed. I don't intend to make any tweaks to anything simply because there should be no need to do so. The blitter - like everything else - should simply work faster on a 65816. 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/154520-new-gui-for-the-atari-8-bit/page/135/#findComment-3170122 Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 (edited) Here's Altirra running the full window drag @7.14Mhz (65816): Here's the rub: the blitter code's on the cartridge, so unless "Shadow cartridges in fast RAM" is selected, you don't see a whole lot of difference. Idle CPU usage with multiple Profilers is naturally very low, and I notice no issues with the mouse pointer here or at 14MHz - at least in emulation, which is the only place I can test it. Edited February 4, 2015 by flashjazzcat 2 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/154520-new-gui-for-the-atari-8-bit/page/135/#findComment-3170168 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Here's Altirra running the full window drag @7.14Mhz (65816): [YouTube Video] Here's the rub: the blitter code's on the cartridge, so unless "Shadow cartridges in fast RAM" is selected, you don't see a whole lot of difference. Idle CPU usage with multiple Profilers is naturally very low, and I notice no issues with the mouse pointer here or at 14MHz - at least in emulation, which is the only place I can test it. Alright, I thought there might be another explanation, as it almost seemed too amazing. None the less, the GUI's speed has improved dramatically over the last demo, especially considering we are now running multiple instances of applications. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/154520-new-gui-for-the-atari-8-bit/page/135/#findComment-3170172 Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 Alright, I thought there might be another explanation, as it almost seemed too amazing. I'm not sure what you mean by "explanation". The slow cart ROM was throttling code execution speed. This is what it looks like when the code runs at 7MHz. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/154520-new-gui-for-the-atari-8-bit/page/135/#findComment-3170175 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bob1200xl Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Yay!! Looks like we will need to emulate a banked cart in RAM. Is the selection matrix available somewhere? Bob Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/154520-new-gui-for-the-atari-8-bit/page/135/#findComment-3170176 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+MrFish Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I'm not sure what you mean by "explanation". The slow cart ROM was throttling code execution speed. This is what it looks like when the code runs at 7MHz. Another explanation as to why there didn't seem to be any appreciable difference when running with a 65816. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/154520-new-gui-for-the-atari-8-bit/page/135/#findComment-3170181 Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 Right. I thought you were referring to what we were looking at: it running fast in the video. Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/154520-new-gui-for-the-atari-8-bit/page/135/#findComment-3170207 Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 Looks like we will need to emulate a banked cart in RAM. Is the selection matrix available somewhere? Anything which provides at least 8x8KB banks at $A000 will do. Sixteen banks are better. Bank switching register can be anywhere, and startup bank is unimportant (all banks have the same 16 byte record at the end). Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/154520-new-gui-for-the-atari-8-bit/page/135/#findComment-3170260 Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bob1200xl Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Should work OK... How will the code be formatted - Bank 2 = !D0 & D1 & !D2? Or, does it use the low-order address bits - Bank 5 = A0 & !A1 & A2? Bob Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/154520-new-gui-for-the-atari-8-bit/page/135/#findComment-3170272 Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 (edited) Not really fussy. The AtariMax 1Mbit uses a write to $D500-$D50F to select the bank. Other carts, like Sic!, use a single register. I just need to change a few lines of code to make it work with any scheme. Being able to turn the cart off completely is also useful. Edited February 4, 2015 by flashjazzcat 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/154520-new-gui-for-the-atari-8-bit/page/135/#findComment-3170287 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Z Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 so I hate to add another project to the ever growing list of 'things I might do someday,' but I think it'd be really cool to get this working on the VBXE, the obvious advantages being hardware blitter, greater resolution, color support, etc. I know you are busy enough as it is, and I don't know how you'd feel about this, but I'd be willing to take on the task of VBXE support on a 'when I have time' basis. 1 Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/154520-new-gui-for-the-atari-8-bit/page/135/#findComment-3170318 Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 Sure - it makes sense to take advantage of it one day. The trouble is, the graphics get their speed (in part) from not channelling writes through a "put pixel" routine. There's a lot of direct screen access so you'd basically have to rewrite the entire graphics library, tailored for VBXE. It'll be a long time before I even have the necessary stuff documented, but yeah: duly noted! Quote Link to comment https://forums.atariage.com/topic/154520-new-gui-for-the-atari-8-bit/page/135/#findComment-3170432 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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