why do people still moan or bitch on about the CX-40 design

[carmel_andrews]

I was reading this thread (http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=43443.0) about the Flashback two, yet I notice that the majority of the thread was more about slagging off or slating the Atari cx-40 joystick

 

What these people seem to forget (perhaps they suffer from long term memory loss) is that unlike most of the manufacturers of gaming systems at the time, Atari decided not to have the joystick controller embedded or built into the system

 

I guess the reason was two fold, A- so that if the joystick controller became broken, you didn't have to send the whole system back to the shop or service centre (bearing in mind that the service centre/shop would probably charge you for a system repair and not just for fixing the joystick, since the joystick was part of the system) all you had to do is go to any Atari shop/supplier and go by either a replacement/repair kit for the cx 40 or buy a new/replacement cx 40...you try doing that for a channel f or bally arcade Phillips G7000 etc

 

The other reason I guess was that Atari wanted to create a line of Alternative joystick controllers and also create a market for Atari compatible joystick controllers (the later i seem to remember actually happening, with manufacturers like konix, spectravideo, cheetah, suncom, gravis, happ controlls etc)

 

Something else these people seem to forget (big time), unlike other joystick or game systems manufacturers Atari was probably the only manufacturer to actually supply replacement or repair kits for their joysticks....could you imagine someone like spectravideo or konix doing that for their range of joysticks or a company like mattel/coleco doing replacement kits/repair kits for their built in joystick controllers...I don't think so, there attitude was, if the joystick is broken, buy a new one or send the system in for repair

 

Now I am assuming/guessing that the people on that particular forum bitching on about the cx-40, got their joystick packaged along with their atari games system (though i do remember Atari also bundling the cx-40 free with various computer packages/bundles) like everyone else did...which i guess means they got their joystick 'for free' possibly, unless they are trying to say that Atari sold the various games systems minus the standard joystick controller

 

The point been made here is why are they trying to find fault or bitch/moan about something they actually got 'free', I'd understand it if they were complaining or bitching about something they actually paid for but seeming as though, like the rest of us, they got the CX-40 joystick 'free' with their system, I don't think their comments are justified

[VectorGamer]

The CX-40 joystick is arguably the best of the stock classic console joysticks.

 

While the NES controllers fit comfortably, they are impossible to play games like Pac-Man...no problems with the CX-40 on those games.

[+save2600]

I love the CX-40 and suspect anyone that complains about 'em probably also can't play (read: do not like) 2600 E.T. either

[AtariLeaf]

I love the CX-40 and suspect anyone that complains about 'em probably also can't play (read: do not like) 2600 E.T. either

 

LOL. No doubt about it, the CX-40 is the best stock joystick. However its not the best 2600 stick. Of course opinions vary but I prefer the Wico sticks myself.

[Bruce Tomlin]

The CX-40 is okay. It's the 7800 Proline sticks that I don't like because the fire buttons are on the side, which requires you to use your thumb to both grip the controller and fire. Ditto for the 5200 controllers.

 

But it's far from the best. Depending on what kind of feel you like, the best are either the Wico Command Control sticks with leaf switches, or the Slik Stik/Tac 2.

[AtariLeaf]

The CX-40 is okay. It's the 7800 Proline sticks that I don't like because the fire buttons are on the side, which requires you to use your thumb to both grip the controller and fire. Ditto for the 5200 controllers.

 

But it's far from the best. Depending on what kind of feel you like, the best are either the Wico Command Control sticks with leaf switches, or the Slik Stik/Tac 2.

 

I saw a couple of these at a "computers for kids" yard sale a couple months ago but didn't know they were good/desirable. Next time I'm there I'm going to grab them if they're there. Probably not until mid- January, they already had their monthly Saturday sale.

[+Random Terrain]

Why do people still moan or bitch on about the CX-40 design?

It's pretty clear why some people moan:

 

http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/138948-joydick-please-tell-me-im-on-too-much-medication/page__view__findpost__p__1683098

[Video]

Are you kidding? People just like to bitch, and will find stuff to bitch about reguardless. As for the CX40, I don't now about the repros, I don't figure they're any real different than the true classics (beyond being a rubbery carbon dot instead of metal dome switches but that's another story) Mostly, it's porbably a bunch of kids that grew up playing nothing older than PSX (or maybe as far back as their older bros NES) and just never used a stick instead of a pad. They do play different. For Atari games, I prefer the sticks, for newer games I prefer the pad, eh, to each they own i guess.

[shadow460]

The CX-40 itself is, IMO, the low end of the totem pole for Atari made sticks. The Flashback 2 sticks are better, so is the CX-10. I don't know which of those two is best, since I switch off between a CX-40B I got with my Flashback 2 and a CX-10. The only complaint I have about those is that they both dig into my left palm where I hold the base of the controller. It's not bad unless I'm strong arming the controller a bit like I did when we played No Escape! in the HSC a while back. It also happens when I have to switch left to right a lot, (think No Escape! again) because I hold the stick a bit differently for that.

 

There are three ways I hold a standard Atari 2600 joystick. One is with my left palm completely under the stick. This is for game that don't require shooting, like Pac-Man. For games with slower action, like Pressure Cooker or Subterranea, I'll kinda pinch the stick base between my hands and use my left thumb to shoot while using my right index and middle finger to move the stick. The third way is for games like Decathlon (well, I use a Trak ball for that now...) and No Escape! where there's little up and down movement but lots of side to side movement. I wrap my left palm around the side of the base and use my right hand to move the stick. This supports the stick off balance with nothing to counter the motion used to move the stick. That causes one corner of the base to dig into my left palm.

 

IMO, the typical Atari joystick is a decent example of a game controller. It's tough, easy to use, fairly comfortable to hold, and adequate for most of the system's games.

[VectorGamer]

 

There are three ways I hold a standard Atari 2600 joystick.

 

Pretty much just one way for me: left hand under the base with thumb on the fire button and controlling the stick using the right thumb on the tip.

 

Sounds pretty gross, eh?

[chriswhit]

The CX-40 joystick is arguably the best of the stock classic console joysticks.

 

While the NES controllers fit comfortably, they are impossible to play games like Pac-Man...no problems with the CX-40 on those games.

I play pac man with my modded nes controller without any problems.

[VectorGamer]

The CX-40 joystick is arguably the best of the stock classic console joysticks.

 

While the NES controllers fit comfortably, they are impossible to play games like Pac-Man...no problems with the CX-40 on those games.

I play pac man with my modded nes controller without any problems.

 

I gotta see this modded controller - can you post a pic?

[eeun]

LOL. No doubt about it, the CX-40 is the best stock joystick. However its not the best 2600 stick. Of course opinions vary but I prefer the Wico sticks myself.

 

Yep, agreed. They took a lot of punishment, and you could take the runner sleeve off the stick and stick it to your forehead.

 

I picked up a CX-40 and the USB adapter that Raphnet sells. Much better than a gamepad for the old games under emulation, IMHO.

 

I've owned a few other sticks over the years, and my favorite is still the Kraft. Nice and accurate and easy on the wrist.

[Herbarius]

Just because you got it "for free" with the system isn't a reason you can't complain about it... (Furthermore, I wouldn't say they were free, but included in the price)...

 

Just look at what a huge market of third party controllers evolved, so you can see they're surely not the ultimate sticks... However, I agree that compared with other stock-controllers they were quite okay.

 

 

But what exactly are the problems with it? Well for one thing, your hands get tired/cramped very quickly. I could never play anything with the CX-40 for more than, say, half an hour, before my hands start hurting.

 

I now don't have a CX-40 anymore, I've got three controllers I use depending on the game:

• for games like Pac-Man, Centipede, ... this "Arcade stick" (Sigma 2100 Multi-Function)
  
• for games like Enduro, Star Master, ... this "Flight stick" (Spectravideo Quickshot II)
  
• for games like Dragonfire, E.T., .... the Atari CX-78 Joypad

Edited December 28, 2009 by Herbarius

[Video]

But what exactly are the problems with it? Well for one thing, your hands get tired/cramped very quickly. I could never play anything with the CX-40 for more than, say, half an hour, before my hands start hurting.

 

To be fair, the vast majority of games on the 2600 can be beaten in less than half an hour anyways (even if you count rolling the score)

 

I won't say the 2600 sticks are the best ever, even for the era (Wico fans may say something about that ) But they are FAR from the worse. Man, I had so many third party controllersthat were absolute shit from back in the day...

Edited December 28, 2009 by Video

[atarian63]

But what exactly are the problems with it? Well for one thing, your hands get tired/cramped very quickly. I could never play anything with the CX-40 for more than, say, half an hour, before my hands start hurting.

 

To be fair, the vast majority of games on the 2600 can be beaten in less than half an hour anyways (even if you count rolling the score)

 

I won't say the 2600 sticks are the best ever, even for the era (Wico fans may say something about that ) But they are FAR from the worse. Man, I had so many third party controllersthat were absolute shit from back in the day...

Most 2600 games are not "beatable games" and are played only for high score, Some can roll over I suppose but not most games unless you are the super gamer I suppose. That the diff between todays games and those of the classic period. I just roll my eyes when someone says they "beat" a game.Probably some puzzle or rpg title which I generally dont consider games in the classic sense of games. Give me a good Shmup anyday.

[BDW]

Bah, they've all been spoiled by the D-pad....

[+poobah]

The CX-40 is okay. It's the 7800 Proline sticks that I don't like because the fire buttons are on the side, which requires you to use your thumb to both grip the controller and fire. Ditto for the 5200 controllers.

 

But it's far from the best. Depending on what kind of feel you like, the best are either the Wico Command Control sticks with leaf switches, or the Slik Stik/Tac 2.

Still use a Slik Stik for my XL's today. Suncom made some good stuff.

[+Random Terrain]

Still use a Slik Stik for my XL's today. Suncom made some good stuff.

A Slik Stik? Sounds like we're talking about my post:

 

http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/155244-why-do-people-still-moan-or-bitch-on-about-the-cx-40-design/page__view__findpost__p__1902438

[tz101]

Atari's CX-40 was better than most for controlling the majority of games on the VCS platform. Didn't lead to hand cramps like the stock NES game pad.

 

I got one of these Prostick II controllers for only $1 at Salvation Army a while back and it is the best 2600 stick ever. Built just like the arcade sticks and incredibly responsive. Very durable too.

[jetset]

The reason people moan or bitch about the cx-40 design is the same as with any other. Some people just aren't good at playing video games. Sure they *like* playing them, but you have to have a certain natural ability to maneuver on-screen images with a controller, and/or practice a bit. Some controllers are better designed and more complex and thus require better coordination and for a lack of a better word, talent. The 5200 sticks immediately come to mind. People complain about them, yet back in the 80's other than the reliability issue with the fire buttons they were never a problem after a little practice (if even that was needed.) If you had a 5200 system (or Colecovision for that matter) and you weren't a decent enough gamer from the start, you practiced and learned how to use them. Really, you didn't have much choice. Today, *if* you decide to even buy a 5200(after reading bad reviews about the controller) and fall into the not-so-good at games group, you'll likely give up after a short time and move on. A great example of the short-attention span of the modern gamer are the reviews of 5200 games at videogamecritic.net. It's wholly clear each game he gave a bad review to got maybe 10 minutes of gameplay, and that's it.

Really, much like the 5200 sticks, the original 2600 sticks back in the day were rarely complained about. I mean, jeez, one assclown on that forum even asked "Has there been a worse joystick than that?" when referring to the cx-40 sticks. I'd be surprised of he's any older than 25 tops and thus did not have a 2600 back in the day, and is either relying on other web reviews or, IF he's actually touched a 2600 stick it was for half an hour at best.

Really...if you can't handle games on a 5200 stick, well that I can see. Some controllers were not designed with the casual gamer or your grandmother in mind. But if you're THAT pathetic you can't even be decent enough to handle one joystick and a fire button and be good enough to enjoy it, maybe you should steer clear of videogames altogether. Maybe something mindnumblingly simple like golf would suit you. Place ball, grip metal club, swing.

No, maybe that would be too much. They'd probably blame the design of the golf club when they shank.

[VectorGamer]

The reason people moan or bitch about the cx-40 design is the same as with any other. Some people just aren't good at playing video games. Sure they *like* playing them, but you have to have a certain natural ability to maneuver on-screen images with a controller, and/or practice a bit. Some controllers are better designed and more complex and thus require better coordination and for a lack of a better word, talent. The 5200 sticks immediately come to mind. People complain about them, yet back in the 80's other than the reliability issue with the fire buttons they were never a problem after a little practice (if even that was needed.) If you had a 5200 system (or Colecovision for that matter) and you weren't a decent enough gamer from the start, you practiced and learned how to use them. Really, you didn't have much choice. Today, *if* you decide to even buy a 5200(after reading bad reviews about the controller) and fall into the not-so-good at games group, you'll likely give up after a short time and move on. A great example of the short-attention span of the modern gamer are the reviews of 5200 games at videogamecritic.net. It's wholly clear each game he gave a bad review to got maybe 10 minutes of gameplay, and that's it.

Really, much like the 5200 sticks, the original 2600 sticks back in the day were rarely complained about. I mean, jeez, one assclown on that forum even asked "Has there been a worse joystick than that?" when referring to the cx-40 sticks. I'd be surprised of he's any older than 25 tops and thus did not have a 2600 back in the day, and is either relying on other web reviews or, IF he's actually touched a 2600 stick it was for half an hour at best.

Really...if you can't handle games on a 5200 stick, well that I can see. Some controllers were not designed with the casual gamer or your grandmother in mind. But if you're THAT pathetic you can't even be decent enough to handle one joystick and a fire button and be good enough to enjoy it, maybe you should steer clear of videogames altogether. Maybe something mindnumblingly simple like golf would suit you. Place ball, grip metal club, swing.

No, maybe that would be too much. They'd probably blame the design of the golf club when they shank.

 

This argument sounds familiar...

 

There were complaints about the CX-40s back in the day but for the most part they were in regard to the comfort of handling the stick (versus the functionality issues with the 5200 controller) - "numb thumbs" etc. There were plenty of third party controllers on the market at the time from Discwasher, Wico etc. I had a Pointmaster joystick which was only "OK" and I never bought another third party stick as a result. The CX-40 is still the best stock controller of all the classic systems.

 

According to you there is no such thing as a bad controller - just a bad gamer. If Atari would have released a controller that were two feet long with the fire button on one end and the joystick on the other you probably would have said the same: "it's a great controller to master it's just that the people complaining about it suck at video games."

 

The 5200 controller excels with games like Missile Command, Centipiede and Defender. The controller works against you in Galaxian and Pac-Man. I suppose you could say dysfunctional in Frogger.

 

The fact that even folks at Atari petitioned against having those controllers released with the 5200 further solidifies that it is the controller and not the gamer at fault.

[jetset]

The reason people moan or bitch about the cx-40 design is the same as with any other. Some people just aren't good at playing video games. Sure they *like* playing them, but you have to have a certain natural ability to maneuver on-screen images with a controller, and/or practice a bit. Some controllers are better designed and more complex and thus require better coordination and for a lack of a better word, talent. The 5200 sticks immediately come to mind. People complain about them, yet back in the 80's other than the reliability issue with the fire buttons they were never a problem after a little practice (if even that was needed.) If you had a 5200 system (or Colecovision for that matter) and you weren't a decent enough gamer from the start, you practiced and learned how to use them. Really, you didn't have much choice. Today, *if* you decide to even buy a 5200(after reading bad reviews about the controller) and fall into the not-so-good at games group, you'll likely give up after a short time and move on. A great example of the short-attention span of the modern gamer are the reviews of 5200 games at videogamecritic.net. It's wholly clear each game he gave a bad review to got maybe 10 minutes of gameplay, and that's it.

Really, much like the 5200 sticks, the original 2600 sticks back in the day were rarely complained about. I mean, jeez, one assclown on that forum even asked "Has there been a worse joystick than that?" when referring to the cx-40 sticks. I'd be surprised of he's any older than 25 tops and thus did not have a 2600 back in the day, and is either relying on other web reviews or, IF he's actually touched a 2600 stick it was for half an hour at best.

Really...if you can't handle games on a 5200 stick, well that I can see. Some controllers were not designed with the casual gamer or your grandmother in mind. But if you're THAT pathetic you can't even be decent enough to handle one joystick and a fire button and be good enough to enjoy it, maybe you should steer clear of videogames altogether. Maybe something mindnumblingly simple like golf would suit you. Place ball, grip metal club, swing.

No, maybe that would be too much. They'd probably blame the design of the golf club when they shank.

 

This argument sounds familiar...

 

There were complaints about the CX-40s back in the day but for the most part they were in regard to the comfort of handling the stick (versus the functionality issues with the 5200 controller) - "numb thumbs" etc. There were plenty of third party controllers on the market at the time from Discwasher, Wico etc. I had a Pointmaster joystick which was only "OK" and I never bought another third party stick as a result. The CX-40 is still the best stock controller of all the classic systems.

 

According to you there is no such thing as a bad controller - just a bad gamer. If Atari would have released a controller that were two feet long with the fire button on one end and the joystick on the other you probably would have said the same: "it's a great controller to master it's just that the people complaining about it suck at video games."

 

The 5200 controller excels with games like Missile Command, Centipiede and Defender. The controller works against you in Galaxian and Pac-Man. I suppose you could say dysfunctional in Frogger.

 

The fact that even folks at Atari petitioned against having those controllers released with the 5200 further solidifies that it is the controller and not the gamer at fault.

 

The fact that you say the 5200 sticks work *against* you on PacMan and Galaixian proves my point. Glaxian, you move left, and you move right. The supposed non self centering problem is a non issue. PacMan is one of the easier ones as well. People whine that the arcade controller self centered. It also was flexible and not stiff as a tree trunk either. I can see where some might need a little practice with the 5200 controllers, although PacMan never has to come to a dead complete stop in the middle anywhere so why does the non-self centering issue come into play?

And sure there were programmers who petitioned against having the 5200 controllers released. They were likely thinking of the casual gamer, who isn't very good at videogames, or wasn't good themselves

[VectorGamer]

The fact that you say the 5200 sticks work *against* you on PacMan and Galaixian proves my point. Glaxian, you move left, and you move right. The supposed non self centering problem is a non issue. PacMan is one of the easier ones as well. People whine that the arcade controller self centered. It also was flexible and not stiff as a tree trunk either. I can see where some might need a little practice with the 5200 controllers, although PacMan never has to come to a dead complete stop in the middle anywhere so why does the non-self centering issue come into play?

And sure there were programmers who petitioned against having the 5200 controllers released. They were likely thinking of the casual gamer, who isn't very good at videogames, or wasn't good themselves

 

The problem in Galaxian is that your ship does not stop moving unless you jerk the stick in the opposite direction. In a fast paced game filled with narrow escapes such as Galaxian, you can ill afford the lack of precision.

 

With Pac-Man, more often than not the controller inhibits making quick and tight maneuvers through the maze. I'm no Billy Mitchell at Pac-Man by any stretch, but I have logged enough hours both in the arcade and on home console to know that this just isn't right.

 

On the ColecoVision, maneuvers in Pac-Man are fine with the stock controllers. But Mouse Trap, another maze game, is horrendous using the stock controllers with my mouse often "getting stuck" in the maze. This coming from a gamer currently ranked #2 on CV Mouse Trap skill #1. One the NES, Pac-Man is dreadful using the stock controller, even worse than the 5200.

 

Through all this, I have a pair of Wico controllers sitting in a tub as I prefer to use the stock controller with the 5200. I suppose it's a love/hate relationship or masochism.

[tz101]

I don't understand all the whining about the 5200 stock sticks. I ordered new rubber boots from Best and they are centering. I played both Pac Man and Ms. Pac Man with the new boots and, yes, the sticks reposition to center location with no extra effort. New parts help a lot with the 5200 sticks.